Death and Funeral of Grand Duke Jean: April 23 & May 4, 2019


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Actually, the reigning Queen is usually referred to simply as HM The Queen whereas a Queen dowager or a foreign queen consort would be referred to as HM Queen [name]. Therefore, I think the Danish court’s press releae is formally correct .

On the other hand, calling her Queen Anne Marie “ of Greece” would be incorrect in my opinion as Greece is now a republic .

Margrethe is ofcourse H.M The Queen.

For a Queen Dowager, like the late H.M Queen Ingrid, that style would be correct. A foreign Queen Consort (reigning or titular) should correctly be mentioned as H.M Queen XX of XX. Otherwise they could also write H.M The Queen and H.M Queen Silvia f.ex

But now we're off topic
 
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This has been confirmed, Princess Anne worked with the Duke on the IOC.

I think Anne is a perfect choice given she has worked with Grand Duke Jean on the IOC so will have many more personal memories of him than other royals that could have been sent instead.
 
And the Prince Jean, Count of Paris confirm his presence at the funeral:

"J'ai été attristé par la mort du grand-duc Jean de Luxembourg, mon cousin. C'était un monarque courageux qui a grandement contribué à libérer son pays en septembre 1944.
Je serai présent lors de ses funérailles le 4 mai à Luxembourg. Je le confie à vos prières ainsi que sa famille, notamment le grand-duc Henri."

" Mon cousin "?
In the meaning of both being capétiens or in the old custom that heads of Royal Houses used to say this.

I renrmber when Queen Anne of Romania died, the Duke of Parma spoke about 'mijn lieve tante' (my lovely aunt) while she was no aunt.
 
" Mon cousin "?
In the meaning of both being capétiens or in the old custom that heads of Royal Houses used to say this.

I renrmber when Queen Anne of Romania died, the Duke of Parma spoke about 'mijn lieve tante' (my lovely aunt) while she was no aunt.


I suppose he meant cousins in the sense that both of them belong to a branch of the broader (patrilineal) Bourbon family.


See the linked official website for the explanation.


Notwithstanding what the Belgian royal court says, Grand Duke Jean's children belong to the Bourbon-Parma family rather than the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha family. It is confusing though since, by the same patrilineal criteria, Princess Astrid's children wouldn't be part of the royal family either, even though they are princes/princesses "of Belgium" under King Baudouin's 1991 royal decree.


That is why I think the subjective (and largely arbitrary) concept of "Royal Family" should be avoided. Instead, one should use the more objective concept of "Royal House", which would include all princes and princesses "of Belgium" and exclude all other family members who do not hold that title. It is unfortunate that the Royal Court does not follow that criterion.


In any case, if we take the Royal Court's statement at face value, should Alexandra and Leopoldo Moncada be also considered members of the Belgian royal family ? I don't think they should be, but, according to the Court's definition, they are.
 
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Notwithstanding what the Belgian royal court says, Grand Duke Jean's children belong to the Bourbon-Parma family rather than the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha family. It is confusing though since, by the same patrilineal criteria, Princess Astrid's children wouldn't be part of the royal family either, even though they are princes/princesses "of Belgium" under King Baudouin's 1991 royal decree.

Grand Duke Jean and his children belong mainly to the Nassau family, their additional Bourbon-Parma identity notwithstanding. With Article 3 of the Constitution of Luxembourg stipulating that "the throne of Luxembourg is hereditary in the Nassau family", being a mere Bourbon-Parma would not allow Jean or Henri to have constitutionally acceded to the grand-ducal throne.

The Grand-Ducal Decree of July 28, 1986 gave to descendants of Sovereigns in male line the family name "Nassau" (subsequently corrected in 2006 to "of Nassau"), distinct from their titles. Even at the times when "Princess or Prince of Bourbon-Parma" was used, it was preceded by "Princess or Prince of Nassau" (e.g. in this court document HRH Louis Prince of Luxembourg v HRH Tessy Princess of Luxembourg & Anor (Application for Financial Remedy) [2018] EWFC 77 (04 December 2018)).


Grand Duke Jean was even a member of the Belgian Royal Family himself, as all the legitimate descendants of King Leopold III and their spouses are classified as members of the BRF, and Grand Duke Jean was a son-in-law of Leopold III. Questions fréquentes | Le 21 juillet 2013
Indeed, members of his branch of the family are regularly seen at royal family events in Belgium.

ETA: Note that the Belgian Court included "Prince Louis, Prince Nikolaus and Princess Margaretha, Princess Marie-Astrid, Princess Maria-Anunciata, Prince Josef-Emmanuel, Prince Guillaume and Princess Sibilla, Prince Paul-Louis, Prince Léopold, Princess Charlotte" in the list of "Members of the Royal Family" attending the memorial mass for King Boudewijn last year.

https://www.monarchie.be/nl/agenda/...25ste-verjaardag-van-het-overlijden-van-zijne

In any case, if we take the Royal Court's statement at face value, should Alexandra and Leopoldo Moncada be also considered members of the Belgian royal family ? I don't think they should be, but, according to the Court's definition, they are.

The Belgian Royal Court's definition "All of the descendants of Léopold III and their legitimate spouses are part of the Royal Family" seems clearly stated to me, so whether or not they should be (and I partially agree with using a narrower definition), there does not appear to be any doubt that the Moncadas are considered members of the Belgian Royal Family, just as Princess Maria-Anunciata of Liechtenstein (as a granddaughter of Princess Joséphine-Charlotte of Belgium) was listed as a member of the Belgian Royal Family in the Court's above quoted press release.
 
:previous: I presume, now it's been confirmed there are royal representatives from former monarchies Portugal and France, we'll be getting a lot of non-reigning RFs at the funeral as well as, I presume, current international families. It'll be interesting who will represent Britain.
 
:previous: I presume, now it's been confirmed there are royal representatives from former monarchies Portugal and France, we'll be getting a lot of non-reigning RFs at the funeral as well as, I presume, current international families. It'll be interesting who will represent Britain.

The French and the Portugese are no surprise. The late Grand-Duke was a Bourbon himself, Luxembourg is a direct neighbour of France, so the ties are historically close (think about the famous Palais & Jardins du Luxembourg in Paris).

The Portugese are the largest group of non-Luxembourg nationals in the Grand-Duchy and the late Grand-Duke's grandmother was a Portugese:


Karl-Christian von Nassau x Carolina von Orange-Nassau
|
Friedrich-Wilhelm von Nassau x Isabelle von Sayn-Hachenburg
|
Wilhelm I von Nassau x Luise von Sachsen-Hildburghausen
|
Adolf von Nassau x Adelheid Marie von Anhalt-Dessau
|
Wilhelm IV von Nassau x Maria Ana de Bragança
|
Charlotte von Nassau x René de Bourbon de Parme
|
Jean
 
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The Portugese are the largest group of non-Luxembourg nationals in the Grand-Duchy and the late Grand-Duke's grandmother was a Portugese:

[...]
Wilhelm IV von Nassau x Maria Ana de Bragança

Maria-Anna was not really Portuguese, her father having been exiled and stripped of his title decades before she was born. As a result, his children were born in Germany and documents issued by the Portuguese government referred to his wife and children as plain Dona/Don. But of course, if Maria Anna considered herself Portuguese, her children and grandchildren could have maintained a special sentiment for that country.


The Duke of Braganza has confirmed that he will be with his family at the funeral of the Grand Duke Jean of Luxembourg. "My family and I will be present at the funeral," he said.
The Duke of Braganza remembered his cousin Jean to the Contact. "The Grand Duke of Luxembourg, the great-grandson of King Michael, has always given great support to the Portuguese community in Luxembourg, whose emigration he sponsored after the Second World War," said Duarte. "My family and I are in a prayer union with the family of the Grand Duke and we will be present at his funeral," the Duke of Bragança assured the Contact.
https://www.wort.lu/pt/luxemburgo/d...l-do-gr-o-duque-jean-5cbf5e7dda2cc1784e342aa6

In what ways did Grand Duke Jean sponsor the Portuguese immigration to Luxembourg? Did he lobby the government, or offer financial support, for example?
 
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Will his funeral be live streamed online?
 
From the website of the Royal House of Romania:

[.....]
"Marele Duce a fost vărul primar al Reginei Ana a României. Regele Mihai I și Regina Ana au fost legați de Marele Duce Jean și de Marea Ducesă Josephine-Charlotte printr-o prietenie de o viață. Marele Duce și Regina Ana au participat la cel de-Al Doilea Război Mondial. Regele Mihai și Regina Ana au fost oaspeții cuplului regal luxemburghez de nenumărate ori, de-a lungul anilor, în ocazii de familie și în ocazii publice."
[.....]

Translation:

" The Grand-Duke was a first cousin of Queen Anne of Romania. King Michael I and Queen Anne were linked to Grand-Duke Jean and Grand-Duchess Joséphine-Charlotte through a friendship lasting a lifetime. The Grand-Duke and Queen Anne participated in the Second World War. Over the years, for numerous times King Michael and Queen Anne have been guests of the Luxembourgian royal couple on family occasions and during public events."

Source: https://familiaregala.ro/stiri/articol/marele-duce-jean-de-luxemburg-in-memoriam
 
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From the website of the Royal House of Romania:

[.....]
"Marele Duce a fost vărul primar al Reginei Ana a României. Regele Mihai I și Regina Ana au fost legați de Marele Duce Jean și de Marea Ducesă Josephine-Charlotte printr-o prietenie de o viață. Marele Duce și Regina Ana au participat la cel de-Al Doilea Război Mondial. Regele Mihai și Regina Ana au fost oaspeții cuplului regal luxemburghez de nenumărate ori, de-a lungul anilor, în ocazii de familie și în ocazii publice."
[.....]

Translation:

" The Grand-Duke was a first cousin of Queen Anne of Romania. King Michael I and Queen Anne were linked to Grand-Duke Jean and Grand-Duchess Joséphine-Charlotte through a friendship lasting a lifetime. The Grand-Duke and Queen Anne participated in the Second World War. Over the years, for numerous times King Michael and Queen Anne have been guests of the Luxembourgian royal couple on family occasions and during public events."

Source: https://familiaregala.ro/stiri/articol/marele-duce-jean-de-luxemburg-in-memoriam




Is the Custodian of the Romanian Crown attending the state funeral then ?
 
Is the Custodian of the Romanian Crown attending the state funeral then ?

Yes, Princess Margareta and Prince Radu will attend indeed. It was confirmed on Twitter somewhere.
 
Will his funeral be live streamed online?

Radio Télévision Luxembourg owns 60 television stations all over Europe, being the biggest private media enterprise. It would surprise me when there is no feed. Also chance it will be broadcast on public television in the two other Benelux countries and on German public television as well, since these always break their regular program for major royal events.

See: https://www.rtl.lu/tele/live
 
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Grand Duke Jean and his children belong mainly to the Nassau family, their additional Bourbon-Parma identity notwithstanding. With Article 3 of the Constitution of Luxembourg stipulating that "the throne of Luxembourg is hereditary in the Nassau family", being a mere Bourbon-Parma would not allow Jean or Henri to have constitutionally acceded to the grand-ducal throne.

The Grand-Ducal Decree of July 28, 1986 gave to descendants of Sovereigns in male line the family name "Nassau" (subsequently corrected in 2006 to "of Nassau"), distinct from their titles. Even at the times when "Princess or Prince of Bourbon-Parma" was used, it was preceded by "Princess or Prince of Nassau" (e.g. in this court document HRH Louis Prince of Luxembourg v HRH Tessy Princess of Luxembourg & Anor (Application for Financial Remedy) [2018] EWFC 77 (04 December 2018)).

.


But Prince Felix's descendants (other than the GDs and HGDs properly) claim to be HRHs because of their Bourbon-Parma family origin, don't they ? Before that, cadet children of a GD were only "His Grand Ducal Highness", I suppose.



On your point, most people who have read my posts on TRF know my position on this issue. I believe in patrilineal naming of families and stand by it, regardless of whether certain RFs decide to call themselves Orange-Nassau, Windsor, or Nassau. It is just my personal PoV, which doesn't mean I deny their legal family name in Luxembourg is Nassau. Again, you are perfectly right.



In any case, it is still strange to me that the Belgian Royal Court considers GD Jean's descendants (or the Moncadas) members of the same family as the Belgian royals when they even use different family names. But, then again, I am quite radical on that subject as I also think Princess Astrid's children technically belong to another family (Habsburg-Lothringen) despite being princes of Belgium themselves. In the past (in the age of agnatic succession), that was the rule which royal houses such as Sweden's followed and family naming was consistent. In fact, even under male-preference cognatic sucession, the Brits used to observe patrilineal naming of dynasties. Now it is a mess.
 
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In the Dutch situation the surname and titles are no longer hereditary. When Princess Juliana (a Von Mecklenburg), Princess Beatrix (a Zur Lippe-Biesterfeld) and when Prince Willem-Alexander (a Von Amsberg) were born, it was established by Royal Decree that their title and surname is Prince (Princess) of Orange-Nassau. That it is not hereditary was proven with Princess Catharina-Amalia, born from a father with the title and surname Prince of Orange-Nassau: also for her that title and surname were officially established by Royal Decree.

Windsor and Bernadotte follow a similar policy. We will see the same with Van België / De Belgique / Von Belgien.
 
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Princess Anne is confirmed according to journalist Richard Palmer.


Interesting; thank you Hans Rickard. I had suspected that the Wessexes would go since they often seem to be the favoured British choice for European events, though perhaps they have engagements at home that couldn't be missed. It'll be nice to see Anne there though.
 
Interesting; thank you Hans Rickard. I had suspected that the Wessexes would go since they often seem to be the favoured British choice for European events, though perhaps they have engagements at home that couldn't be missed. It'll be nice to see Anne there though.

For funerals it has usually been Prince Charles or Prince Andrew during later years. Earlier it was mostly Prince Philip.

Princess Anne was likely choosen this time as she knew GD Jean very well since they worked closely together for a decade in the International Olympic Comittee.
 
But Prince Felix's descendants (other than the GDs and HGDs properly) claim to be HRHs because of their Bourbon-Parma family origin, don't they ? Before that, cadet children of a GD were only "His Grand Ducal Highness", I suppose.

Yes, you are correct. The children of Grand Duke Guillaume IV were created "Her Grand Ducal Highness" via Grand-Ducal decrees (link to an example).


On your point, most people who have read my posts on TRF know my position on this issue. I believe in patrilineal naming of families and stand by it, regardless of whether certain RFs decide to call themselves Orange-Nassau, Windsor, or Nassau. It is just my personal PoV, which doesn't mean I deny their legal family name in Luxembourg is Nassau. Again, you are perfectly right.

Many royal watchers and for that matter many royals don't believe women should have equal rights as men to pass on their names to their children, and I am very much aware of that. But there is a difference between the opinions of royal watchers and the actual decisions royals may make. For instance, the decision of Grand Duke Henri in 2012 to deny any woman who happens to be a descendant of, or married to a descendant of, Grand Duchess Charlotte (with the exceptions of a Grand Duchess or a Hereditary Grand Duchess in her own right) the right to give her name to her own children sent the wrong message by my assessment, but it was his decision to make as the head of the house, and not mine. Accordingly, I recognize that Princess Alexandra's children will not be Nassaus, even though I would prefer them to be.


In any case, it is still strange to me that the Belgian Royal Court considers GD Jean's descendants (or the Moncadas) members of the same family as the Belgian royals when they even use different family names. But, then again, I am quite radical on that subject as I also think Princess Astrid's children technically belong to another family (Habsburg-Lothringen) despite being princes of Belgium themselves. In the past (in the age of agnatic succession), that was the rule which royal houses such as Sweden's followed and family naming was consistent. In fact, even under male-preference cognatic sucession, the Brits used to observe patrilineal naming of dynasties. Now it is a mess.

It is odd that the Belgian Royal Court considers the main line of a foreign royal family to be part of the Belgian Royal Family, but on the other hand, most families in my experience do not define their membership using the strict criterion of family name. As a practical issue, a definition of that kind would imply that Spanish women, who virtually never adopt their husbands' names, do not belong to their husbands' families, and that is surely not the general view of most Spaniards.

In the Dutch situation the surname and titles are no longer hereditary. When Princess Juliana (a Von Mecklenburg), Princess Beatrix (a Zur Lippe-Biesterfeld) and when Prince Willem-Alexander (a Von Amsberg) were born, it was established by Royal Decree that their title and surname is Prince (Princess) of Orange-Nassau. That it is not hereditary was proven with Princess Catharina-Amalia, born from a father with the title and surname Prince of Orange-Nassau: also for her that title and surname were officially established by Royal Decree.

To add to your comment, the Royal Decrees also established "van Mecklenburg/van Lippe-Biesterfeld/van Amsberg" as parts of Juliana, Beatrix, and Willem-Alexander's and their siblings' respective surnames, preceded by the "van Oranje-Nassau". Take for example the text of the Royal Decree in relation to Juliana's children, posted here: http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...g-schwerin-1876-1934-a-12861.html#post2040512


Windsor and Bernadotte follow a similar policy. We will see the same with Van België / De Belgique / Von Belgien.

Bernadotte has never been established by decree, it is simply hereditary.

King Philippe of Belgium has followed a different interpretation of the law than his father, and "Van België / De Belgique / Von Belgien" is no longer considered their official family name, even though the Belgian royal family have persisted in its unofficial usage as a surname.

More information in this post: http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f29/titles-of-the-belgian-royal-family-38975-9.html#post1920463

Perhaps we could move the discussion of naming in the Benelux monarchies to the respective titles threads. :flowers:
 
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Death of Grand Duke Jean: April 23, 2019

I don’t think it had anything to do with family names.

We all belong to more than one family.
The families of both parents, grandparents and so on. The family we may marry into or one of our ancestors remarry into.

From the Belgian point of view Jean is also part of their family.

The tweet of the Belgian journalist only announced the presence of Filip, Mathilde, Albert and Paola.
I would expect to see Astrid, Lorenz, Laurent and Claire as well.
 
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Usually one would expect the head of the House Orange-Nassau (The King), Queen Máxima and Princess Beatrix at the State Funeral of Grand-Duke Jean the former head of the House Nassau.

Saturday May 4th however is also the National Remembrance in the Netherlands, where the royal couple is expected in Amsterdam, in the late afternoon/early evening.

I think they can make it with a State Funeral in Luxembourg around Noon and with the plane back to Amsterdam. But it is very well possible that only Princess Beatrix will attend. Then there is no hurry and the Princess then has plenty of time to stay for lunch and interact with the other royal and noble guests.

I do think the King and Queen will attend the funeral alongside Princess Beatrix.
They won't perhaps make it to the reception at the Palace afterwards but when they will attend just the churchservice, there will be enough time to be back in Amsterdam late afternoon.
 
Does anyone know what the course of events will be for the next few days, for example:

- When will the body of the late Grand Duke be transferred to the Royal Palace?
- Will there be a Lying in State, so that the authorities and the people of Luxembourg can pay their respects?

What I also would like to know: will the Grand Duke be buried or cremated?
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think I read somewhere that his late wife, Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte, was cremated and that her ashes are placed in the Royal Vault in the Notre Dame Cathedral of Luxembourg.
 
Does anyone know what the course of events will be for the next few days, for example:

- When will the body of the late Grand Duke be transferred to the Royal Palace?
- Will there be a Lying in State, so that the authorities and the people of Luxembourg can pay their respects?

What I also would like to know: will the Grand Duke be buried or cremated?
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think I read somewhere that his late wife, Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte, was cremated and that her ashes are placed in the Royal Vault in the Notre Dame Cathedral of Luxembourg.


The bodfy of the late Grand Duke will today be transferred from Berg Castle to the Palace in in Luxembourg-City where he will be lie in State.
Communiqué du Maréchalat de la Cour - Cour Grand-Ducale de Luxembourg - Avril 2019
 
I do think the King and Queen will attend the funeral alongside Princess Beatrix.
They won't perhaps make it to the reception at the Palace afterwards but when they will attend just the churchservice, there will be enough time to be back in Amsterdam late afternoon.

The State Funeral starts at 11.00 o'clock so the King and Queen Máxima can make it but attending a funeral under a tight time schedule is never optimal.
My guess is that Princess Beatrix, accompanied by her nephew the Duke of Parma, will attend.

Or

Arrival by royal plane:
- The King
- Queen Máxima
- Princess Beatrix
- The Duke of Parma

Directly leaving by royal plane after the funeral:
- The King
- Queen Máxima

Staying for lunch and leaving by royal limousines back to the Netherlands:
- Princess Beatrix
- The Duke of Parma
 
I thought HRH passed away at his own residence, Fischbach Castle, or in a hospital.

But it seems he died at Colmar-Berg.
 
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