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  #21  
Old 12-02-2008, 10:06 PM
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I still think that Aiko should inherit after her father. Tradition is well and good, but even tradition needs to evolve a bit.
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  #22  
Old 12-03-2008, 01:06 PM
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I still think that Aiko should inherit after her father. Tradition is well and good, but even tradition needs to evolve a bit.
Entirely my sentiment.
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  #23  
Old 12-03-2008, 02:08 PM
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Traditions should evolve. It is all well and good, but Japan is an intricate amalgam of innovations that rest on traditions. Being a deeply patriarchal society, Japan reveres old traditions as a distinctive feature in this globalised world. These traditions give men/sons more advantageous position and assign women/daughters to a usual female stuff (homemaking, child rearing). We do not expect Vatican to have a female Pope ... Saudi Arabia or any other country in the Persian Gulf is not likely to have Sheikha succeeding her father any time soon ... An Arab or Asian Princess is unlikely to become a Consort to a British Prince. Whilst I agree about traditions and evolution, a nation has got a full right to uphold traditions it deems appropriate. Wether we like it or not, but sons continue bloodlines in the Asian society. Thus, the Japanese Imperial family, similar to Arab Royal families, strives to maintain bloodline through sons.
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  #24  
Old 12-04-2008, 10:14 AM
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Well, concubines, as in, "lesser" wives (ie, not as important as the head wife, but still having some rights ofc) I see no problem with. If all parties are happy with the arrangement, why not?

The idea to marry Aiko to a cousin is because, in the past, female Emperors have generally ruled temporarily until there was an male who was descended from the Imperial house in the main line.

For any son of hersto be able to inherit, his father would have to be an Imperial prince.
I agree with Elsbeth in the supposition that Masako would hardly be happy with this, and, like Albina and kimebear, I do not see Naruhito being happy with the arrangement either: He has said even before Masako consented to marry him that if she decided against him he would remain single. That means he would have refused to take a „regular“ wife out of merely procreative motives, so it is even less probable that he would have ever considered to take a concubine for that reason.

As for Aiko marrying a cousin, except little Hisahito, all her cousins far and near are either about 60 years her seniors or of gender female, so concerning the continuance of the imperial b.lood line this really would not get us anywhere...
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  #25  
Old 12-04-2008, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Traditions should evolve. It is all well and good, but Japan is an intricate amalgam of innovations that rest on traditions. Being a deeply patriarchal society, Japan reveres old traditions as a distinctive feature in this globalised world. These traditions give men/sons more advantageous position and assign women/daughters to a usual female stuff (homemaking, child rearing). We do not expect Vatican to have a female Pope ... Saudi Arabia or any other country in the Persian Gulf is not likely to have Sheikha succeeding her father any time soon ... An Arab or Asian Princess is unlikely to become a Consort to a British Prince. Whilst I agree about traditions and evolution, a nation has got a full right to uphold traditions it deems appropriate. Wether we like it or not, but sons continue lines in the Asian society. Thus, the Japanese Imperial family, similar to Arab Royal families, strives to maintain line through sons.
I agree in that it is, of course, not up to us to decide what the Japanese or their imperial family should do. (They are not asking us for advice, anyway...)

But it is a general custom in the whole world that traditions and their validity are being discussed for a shorter or a longer time and, oftentimes, they are finally changed. For example, as you are mentioning the pope, there is an ongoing discussion in the Catholic church about women getting the right to become priests.

I certainly do not see this becoming reality in the near future, at least not as long the present pope is alive – but later on, who knows what will happen? And I also remember that when the present pope was elected there was a discussion if the new pope should not come from another continent than Europe, for a change. It did not happen, but obviously it is not so much out of the question as it was in the last century. The next pope will certainly not be a woman - but he might well be black...
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  #26  
Old 12-04-2008, 11:31 AM
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As far as I remember, the discussions about the equal primogeniture have been put off due to Prince Hisahito's well-timed birth. Personally I think it will take an extinction of all possible males in the Imperial bloodline to allow women ascending the Chrysanthemum Throne. The IHA and other courtiers will be forced to change the succession rules because there will be no other way to resolve the new heir crisis.
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  #27  
Old 12-08-2008, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Traditions should evolve. It is all well and good, but Japan is an intricate amalgam of innovations that rest on traditions. Being a deeply patriarchal society, Japan reveres old traditions as a distinctive feature in this globalised world. These traditions give men/sons more advantageous position and assign women/daughters to a usual female stuff (homemaking, child rearing). We do not expect Vatican to have a female Pope ... Saudi Arabia or any other country in the Persian Gulf is not likely to have Sheikha succeeding her father any time soon ... An Arab or Asian Princess is unlikely to become a Consort to a British Prince. Whilst I agree about traditions and evolution, a nation has got a full right to uphold traditions it deems appropriate. Wether we like it or not, but sons continue bloodlines in the Asian society. Thus, the Japanese Imperial family, similar to Arab Royal families, strives to maintain bloodline through sons.
Most people in Japan either didn't give a hoots about Aiko inheriting the throne or were for it. I'm a quarter Japanese and trust me, they aren't as patriarchal as you think. Especially the younger generation, women are a lot more independent now and it's common for them to be in the workplace. Besides it's all about modernization and gender equality. People no longer serve monarchies, but monarchies serve people. What purpose do they have if they don't change to reflect their country?
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  #28  
Old 12-08-2008, 11:54 AM
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If the Japanese do not mind or really care about Princess Aiko ascending the throne, I wonder why Prime Minister Koizumi was no allowed to introduce the equal primogeniture and the heir crisis was resolved by a well-timed birth of Prince Hisahito. Indeed, there are some changes, which have prompted women to rethink their role within the Japanese society by focusing on their career, delaying marriages, and postponing the childbirth. At the same time, I am sure it may take a rather long period of time to achieve true gender equality in Asian countries.
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And, subtle shadows of bamboo on bamboo." Zeami Motokiyo
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  #29  
Old 12-08-2008, 06:24 PM
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Am I correct in thinking that there is a real aversion in Japan to influence from outside cultures in terms of things that are really important: family roles, religion, and the ruling class? A superficial look at the way Japanese people live would make non-Asians think that they are modern because of the clothes they wear and their success in business; but I know that what appears to be is not necessarily what is.

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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Traditions should evolve. It is all well and good, but Japan is an intricate amalgam of innovations that rest on traditions. Being a deeply patriarchal society, Japan reveres old traditions as a distinctive feature in this globalised world.
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  #30  
Old 12-08-2008, 06:47 PM
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As far as I can judge, the Japanese take a foreign concept or product adopt to fit the local circumstances. Interpersonal relationships mostly rest upon conservative traditions. However, the recent development such as increase in divorce and decline of population may indicate that a part of the Japanese society is ready for some viable changes. In any situation, I still think that Prince Hisahito and other men in the family will ascend the Chrysanthemum throne. I shall greatly be surprised, if Crown Prince Naruhito attempts to rock the the boat of harmony by introducing the equal primogeniture.
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  #31  
Old 12-08-2008, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
If Japanese do not really care about Princess Aiko ascending the throne, I wonder why Prime Minister Koizumi was no allowed to introduce the equal primogeniture and the heir crisis was resolved by a well-timed birth of Prince Hisahito. Indeed, there are some changes, which have prompted women to rethink their role within the Japanese society by focusing on their career, delaying marriages, and postponing the childbirth. At the same time, I am sure it may take a rather long period of time to achieve true gender equality in Asian countries.
The Japan Times editorial called for Princess Aiko to become a Queen Regnant to act as a symbol for social reforms for women in Japan. Polls showed that the Japanese were largely in favour of Aiko being allowed to inherit the throne as well (80 percent I believe). In fact, I believe the only people who were against it and pressured Hisahito's parents to try for another baby were some prominent members of the RHA.
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  #32  
Old 12-09-2008, 12:06 AM
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Despite polls, articles, and willingness of then Prime Minister Koizumi to address the heir issues, conservatives contrived to claim the victory. I tend to think that the IHA and conservative coutiers will likely prevent any changes in the succession rules. Let us see what happens, when Crown Prince Naruhito ascends the throne.
It appears that we have diametrically opposite views on the matter. So it would be better for us to disagree on it.
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  #33  
Old 01-21-2009, 04:35 AM
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I think that women are far better in high office than men and it would be ashame if the law could not be changed to allow Aiko to become the empress even if any children she has are barred because of the apparent impurity of their blood. In my opinion, Prince Hisahito position should be slightly less elevated than Aiko's because he is the third child of the second child of an emperor and not the first child of the first child of the emperor. As such, Aiko should be elevated to a higher status. Lets face it, in terms of providing the next generation, men's physical and spiritual input into this is somewhat limited. The woman's input lasts for nine months and is physically, mentally and spiritually closer. Accordingly, womens place in society should be in a much better position than it currently is and that includes in religion too!
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  #34  
Old 01-21-2009, 10:37 AM
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Lets face it, in terms of providing the next generation, men's physical and spiritual input into this is somewhat limited. The woman's input lasts for nine months and is physically, mentally and spiritually closer.
This is a very controversial (and sexist) remark Both parents participate in the creation of a child equally. A woman has the privilege to carry the child and bring it into the world, but the child is still as much as father's as it is mother's.
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  #35  
Old 01-21-2009, 11:05 AM
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This is a very controversial (and sexist) remark Both parents participate in the creation of a child equally. A woman has the privilege to carry the child and bring it into the world, but the child is still as much as father's as it is mother's.
But surely being controversial leads to debate and allows people to make valid responses and question whether the judgement of one person is right or wrong? One has to express ones opinion based on experience or of what one sees. By responding to my post here (and to my posts about succession) I have learned that sexism works both ways and an awful lot more about the Japanese Imperial Family.
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  #36  
Old 01-21-2009, 11:17 AM
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Of course sexism works both ways. I also agree that everyone has right to express their opinion. However, gender equality cannot be achieved by undermining one gender. Monarchies will exist for as long as traditions are respected and if tradition prefers males over females, then I guess we can say that monarchy is an institution based on sexism. I am not talking only about men having stronger rsuccession rights than women, but also about wife's right to enjoy her husband's title while husband usually doesn't enjoy his wife's title.
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  #37  
Old 02-14-2009, 02:35 PM
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I see nothing wrong with Prince Hisahito succeeding after Prince Naruhito -- as he is still an infant and will have a lifetime to prepare for the job, as opposed to his father, who though articulate and educated has not planned to become Emperor.

I wouldn't get too carried away with modernization, whether you're just trying to be fair for ladies. I mean, at that point people could just abolish monarchies altogether.
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  #38  
Old 02-22-2009, 02:25 PM
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I still think that Aiko should inherit after her father. Tradition is well and good, but even tradition needs to evolve a bit.
Aiko's succession is not the problem - the problem is succession of her children. Aiko is a male-line descendant of the Emperors of Japan and as such she could succeed just like the other eight empresses succeeded. However, Aiko's children would be male-line descendants of the Emperors of Japan only if Aiko marries a male-line descendant of the Emperors of Japan. Are there any male-line descendants of the Emperors of Japan outside the Imperial Family (descendants of the former imperial branches)?

If not, there is still hope for Aiko's succession: she could succeed and be succeeded by her cousin Hisahito or one of his sons.
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  #39  
Old 11-10-2011, 07:37 PM
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Personally, I believe they should just abolish the male-primogeniture system and establish equal primogeniture. They have absorbed several western views anyway, they might as well modernize when it comes to who is the next emperor
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