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  #761  
Old 05-25-2012, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Esmerelda View Post
It seems pretty drastic to tell someone who to marry. I believe one of the experts in the current hearings said that it would be a violation of human rights. As traditional as the Imperial Family is, the current Emperor and his children married for love. Even if Aiko (or her cousins) wasn't actually forced into it, they'd feel the pressure and no one would be certain that they weren't coerced into it.
You're absolutely right, but I'm surprised by how it hasn't been discussed more, because it could be a way to solve a crisis, if Hisahito has no sons. But if the two previous generations were allowed to marry for love, I'm sure the three young princesses and the young prince will do so as well, so I don't think we have to worry.
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  #762  
Old 05-25-2012, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Furienna
You're absolutely right, but I'm surprised by how it hasn't been discussed more, because it could be a way to solve a crisis, if Hisahito has no sons. But if the two previous generations were allowed to marry for love, I'm sure the three young princesses and the young prince will do so as well, so I don't think we have to worry.
Maybe because although it's technically a possible solution, not many people really think it's an acceptable way to deal with the situation?
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  #763  
Old 05-25-2012, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Tsar bobo Iv View Post
im sure she will make a great empress
I don't know if Aiko will make a good empress but it will be good to see the succession law being changed. That is for sure, IMO.
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  #764  
Old 05-25-2012, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Furienna View Post
You're absolutely right, but I'm surprised by how it hasn't been discussed more, because it could be a way to solve a crisis, if Hisahito has no sons. But if the two previous generations were allowed to marry for love, I'm sure the three young princesses and the young prince will do so as well, so I don't think we have to worry.
Some people, usually the very ultra right wing, such as Tsuneyasu Takeda who is a male descendant of the former Takeda-no-miya want the male members of old miyake to be made Imperial Hignesses so that they, too, can be entitled to the line of succession instead of Aiko.

Many ordinary Japanese people find this option very uncomfortable because, though they may be related to the imperial family through the male lines, they have been born into non-imperial families and they are plain Mr Takeda and Mr Kitashirakawa or whatever. Aiko and Mrs Kuroda are far closer to the Tenno by blood than these people such as Tsuneyasu Takeda.
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  #765  
Old 05-26-2012, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by mariaantoniapia View Post
Do you think that establishing josei miyake may be one step forward for Aiko's right to the succession of the throne?
At least the ultraconservatives do seem to think that. They have openly given that as the reason for their opposition to the plans to establish female-headed family branches, even when the government protested that they would not be given succession rights and should even be limited to but one generation. Yoshiko Sakurai accused IHA Grand Steward Haketa and others to secretly work towards opening the way to a matrilineal emperor and said that the government (falsely) claimed to intend "to study only the issue of female-line imperial branches by separating it from matters relating to the succession to the Imperial Throne". But, according to Sakurai, "it is definitely impossible to separate these two issues". (Source) She obviously thinks that the government is planning a conspiracy in order to enforce the will of the majority of the people against the ultraconservative minority. (The lady does not seem to notice that, in a democracy, you usually should not have to take recourse to a conspiracy in order to achieve such a goal... )

This being said, you will probably be in a better position to answer this question than I am. But I have the impression that whatever happens, Aiko has but a very small chance of becoming reigning empress. But if she were allowed to keep her royal status, this small chance would increase a tiny little bit. In my opinion, Aiko will have a chance to succeed to the throne only in case anything should happen to Hisahito. But, just for example, if she were to head a miyake (imperial family branch) of her own and Hisahito should fell ill as young emperor (say, in 30 or 40 years), she could easily be called upon to act as regent (even under the present law). If she had done that for some time successfully and Hisahito should die, it would probably be impossible, even for ultranationalists, to request her to step down and let a man from a former imperial branch whose name nobody has ever heard before become emperor. (I hope it is clear that I am only saying this for the sake of the argument and am, of course, not wishing harm to anybody. Besides, as I said, it is fortunately very improbable.)

So, I think for Aiko herself the chances are very small. But if she were to have her own miyake, the chances for her children and grandchildren to one day ascend the throne would definitely become much bigger. If Hisahito should have no children or no grandchildren (which can happen easily as we have seen in the past), it would seem very natural to everybody that the throne should go to the offspring of his cousin or his sisters if they still had royal status. I do not to think that in such a situation ultraconservatives could still hope to block the changes by saying that a female-line tenno would be the end of the world, as they are doing at present.
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  #766  
Old 05-26-2012, 10:59 AM
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Maybe it wouldn't be the end of the world, but it would be the end of a very old tradition, which many people still want to keep. But like I've said earlier, it's not good to only have three heirs to a throne, so some changes should be made.
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  #767  
Old 05-26-2012, 12:39 PM
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There are not that many people who want to keep it and, besides, this tradition had been notably changed already end of the 19th century. It is very much to the purpose what Mariaantoniapia has pointed out above: before the Meiji Restoration, there was an effective system to keep the pool of imperial heirs at an reasonable size, which on one hand meant, not too few heirs but on the other hand, not too many heirs either. As she said, the title of shinnō (imperial prince which also meant: potential heir to the throne) had to be granted, even a son of the emperor was not born with it. In a similar way, there was but a limited number of collateral branches before the Meiji Restoration (usually four), and only the head of such a branch was granted the title of shinnō. To have eleven collateral branch houses as there were at the end of World War II, in addition to the families of Emperor Hirohito´s three brothers, was completely unprecedented. The system would have had to be changed anyway, and the number of royals reduced.

Besides, of course, it is a good thing to think first and then change an old tradition. But, frankly, depending on what it is, it can be a real blessing to change it. What about slavery, feudalism, no voting rights for women, absolutism and last but not least, concubinage? All of them very old traditions, and when they were abolished, their defenders probably also argued that they were too ancient and venerable to be dispensed with...

At the end of the day, it is most important if a measure or an institution serves the best of the people and not so important, how ancient it is.
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  #768  
Old 05-26-2012, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Furienna View Post
Yes, those would be the families, which I was thinking of. But are there really no male member of those families left?
Sorry, that was a misunderstanding. As I said, there were four collateral branches before the Meiji Restoration (that was launched in 1868), the Fushimi-no-miya, the Katsura-no-miya, the Arisugawa-no-miya and the Kan'in-no-miya. It is they who are extinct, due to a lack of male heirs. (After the war, two imperial princes were given the titles of two of those branch houses, but they have/had no children either.) After the Meiji Restoration there were more branch houses created, by descendants of the Fushimi-no-miya. Some of them do not have successors either, but others have many. For example, the Takeda branch from whom Tsuneyasu Takeda is descended (Mariaantoniapia mentioned him) can offer lots of male offspring, three sons who were born in the 1940s who have again five male descendants in the next generation altogether. But the Takeda branch is one of the latest funded branches (in 1906), it is but a junior branch of the Kitashirakawa-no-miya collateral branch. Besides, all the descendants of the collateral branches are but very remotely related to the modern emperors as the Fushimi-no-miya was founded already in 1409 by a son of Emperor Sukō.
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  #769  
Old 05-26-2012, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mariaantoniapia View Post
Thank you for your welcome message.
You are very welcome! Of course, everybody would be welcome who contributes to the discussion in a positive way or who wants to gather information (or both). But I have to admit that I am particularly pleased to have a Japanese native speaker here as you may sometimes be able to answer questions that nobody else here could answer (so far at least).

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Originally Posted by mariaantoniapia View Post
I see. So, she meant 11 miyakes that lost their imperial highness status in 1947. Then, they were not aristocrats (kazoku) but were the members of the Imperial House (kouzoku). The practice of the Seshuu shinnouke was stopped in the Meiji Era and the 25th Fushimi-no-miya was styled as an "ou". So, when the GHQ instructed the Japanese government to reduce the numbers of the miyake, there were only ou denkas, ouhi denkas and joou denkas who left the imperial house and now the descendants of such people are called "kyuu kouzoku".
That is interesting. I did not know that after the Meiji Restoration even the heads of the ancient collateral houses did not have the shinnō-title any longer. I wonder why.
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Originally Posted by mariaantoniapia View Post
After the Restoration, also, the title of "nyoin" was abolished because the Imperial House was cut off from the Buddhism. Shirakawa haku-ouke was also deprived of their right to become ou. I think it was such a pity to abolish such fancy titles as the nyoin-gou and Shirakawa Haku-Ouke.
Could you say more about these titles? I know that the title of nyoin would sometimes be given to wives of the former emperors or princesses who then would be treated similarly to abdicated emperors. But what is ”nyoin-gou”? And regarding “Shirakawa Haku-Ouke”, I have no clue what that could be. Can you please translate or explain?

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Originally Posted by mariaantoniapia View Post
In modern day Japan, there are no "commoners" because apart from the members of the Imperial House, all the people of Japan are categorised as the Japanese national. I do not wish to be called as a commoner because I am not.
I am sorry. I certainly had no intention to call you (or anybody) something they do not want to be called. I am not a native speaker in English but from what I can see, “commoner” is used as a “technical term”, so to speak, to describe someone who is not royal/does not belong to the aristocracy. I am afraid that I cannot dispense with it, especially not when I am contributing to the discussion in this thread where all is about princesses becoming commoners and marrying commoners or commoners fathering children who may or may not be given succession rights etc.. Besides, I think most people here (including myself) are commoners. I do not think that there is anything wrong with being a commoner. After all, commoners are the sovereign in a modern democracy.
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  #770  
Old 05-26-2012, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mariaantoniapia View Post
Some people, usually the very ultra right wing, such as Tsuneyasu Takeda who is a male descendant of the former Takeda-no-miya want the male members of old miyake to be made Imperial Hignesses so that they, too, can be entitled to the line of succession instead of Aiko.

Many ordinary Japanese people find this option very uncomfortable because, though they may be related to the imperial family through the male lines, they have been born into non-imperial families and they are plain Mr Takeda and Mr Kitashirakawa or whatever. Aiko and Mrs Kuroda are far closer to the Tenno by blood than these people such as Tsuneyasu Takeda.
Actually, it is sort of a secret nightmare of mine that Tsuneyasu Takeda might, in some way, or other, finally succeed in becoming a member of the imperial family...

For those who have never heard of him: Like mariaantoniapia said, he is a member of a former collateral branch. He must be around 36 years by now and is one of the main proponents of the idea to restore the former princely houses or to allow the imperial family to adopt males from those families. To promote this plan, he has written a book entitled "The Untold Truth of Imperial Family Members".

In late 2004, just before Koizumi's advisory panel started its discussions regarding the amendment of the succession law, the heads of the former miyake agreed not to speak out on the issue in public. As, for constitutional reasons, the imperial family was not allowed to comment on the matter either, this was imo a good and respectable decision. But Takeda chose to disregard it. He said that men from the former imperial branches should feel a responsibility to maintain the imperial house, although he claimed that he would feel overwhelmed if asked to play that role himself. "Sometimes people say it would be good if I were to... return to imperial status, but that is something that I would be overawed by," he said. "It's something I can't even imagine." But it is very improbable that this is more than a common topos of modesty. In my opinion, that became even more obvious when Takeda with seeming humility informed the public: “People think that I must have been raised in a special way or that I lead a special daily life, but I personally don't think it's been all that special.”

In another thread, a member of this forum said:
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Originally Posted by iamtheoneandonly View Post
Some internet sites report that a man named Takeda has been encouraging the members of the fanatic right wing movement to murder the Japanese politicians who are pro-Princess Toshi's ascension to the Japanese throne.
I do not know if that is true, though. Have you ever heard of such a thing, mariaantoniapia?

Besides, in a Japanese forum I have found a pic of Takeda posted together with that of Princess Akiko of Mikasa. From the comments I got the impression that they had some sort of relationship. (I do not read Japanese but Google-translator is your best friend. ) Do you happen to know if that is true?
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  #771  
Old 05-27-2012, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiaraC View Post
Actually, it is sort of a secret nightmare of mine that Tsuneyasu Takeda might, in some way, or other, finally succeed in becoming a member of the imperial family...

For those who have never heard of him: Like mariaantoniapia said, he is a member of a former collateral branch. He must be around 36 years by now and is one of the main proponents of the idea to restore the former princely houses or to allow the imperial family to adopt males from those families. To promote this plan, he has written a book entitled "The Untold Truth of Imperial Family Members".

In late 2004, just before Koizumi's advisory panel started its discussions regarding the amendment of the succession law, the heads of the former miyake agreed not to speak out on the issue in public. As, for constitutional reasons, the imperial family was not allowed to comment on the matter either, this was imo a good and respectable decision. But Takeda chose to disregard it. He said that men from the former imperial branches should feel a responsibility to maintain the imperial house, although he claimed that he would feel overwhelmed if asked to play that role himself. "Sometimes people say it would be good if I were to... return to imperial status, but that is something that I would be overawed by," he said. "It's something I can't even imagine." But it is very improbable that this is more than a common topos of modesty. In my opinion, that became even more obvious when Takeda with seeming humility informed the public: “People think that I must have been raised in a special way or that I lead a special daily life, but I personally don't think it's been all that special.”

In another thread, a member of this forum said:


I do not know if that is true, though. Have you ever heard of such a thing, mariaantoniapia?

Besides, in a Japanese forum I have found a pic of Takeda posted together with that of Princess Akiko of Mikasa. From the comments I got the impression that they had some sort of relationship. (I do not read Japanese but Google-translator is your best friend. ) Do you happen to know if that is true?
I do not read articles written about the Imperial Family in English often but I do read about them in Japanese a lot.

I think Mr Takeda wrote about his admiration of a man who said that he would assissnate Mr Koizumi the former PM if his government was to make a way for Aiko to become a Tenno. I have to look into my readings but I think he said this sort of thing in one of the Shinto magazines for which he is a columnist or something.

Many Japanese people as in the general public do not support this idea of such men as Mr Takeda whose grandfathers were Imperial Highnesses until 1947 to be made Imperial Highnesses now and in due course become Tenno because it does not seem correct even in a traditional sense for someone who was born outside the Kouzoku (the Imperial Family) to become our Tenno.
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  #772  
Old 05-27-2012, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mariaantoniapia

I do not read articles written about the Imperial Family in English often but I do read about them in Japanese a lot.

I think Mr Takeda wrote about his admiration of a man who said that he would assissnate Mr Koizumi the former PM if his government was to make a way for Aiko to become a Tenno. I have to look into my readings but I think he said this sort of thing in one of the Shinto magazines for which he is a columnist or something.

Many Japanese people as in the general public do not support this idea of such men as Mr Takeda whose grandfathers were Imperial Highnesses until 1947 to be made Imperial Highnesses now and in due course become Tenno because it does not seem correct even in a traditional sense for someone who was born outside the Kouzoku (the Imperial Family) to become our Tenno.
Wow. Assassination? Was the guy who made the threat against the Prime Minister arrested? I also sincerely hope that Mr. Takeda never becomes an Imperial Highness. At least with Hisahito, he can't claim the throne.
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Old 05-27-2012, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiaraC View Post
That is interesting. I did not know that after the Meiji Restoration even the heads of the ancient collateral houses did not have the shinnō-title any longer. I wonder why.

Could you say more about these titles? I know that the title of nyoin would sometimes be given to wives of the former emperors or princesses who then would be treated similarly to abdicated emperors. But what is ”nyoin-gou”? And regarding “Shirakawa Haku-Ouke”, I have no clue what that could be. Can you please translate or explain?
As you know there were four seshuu shinnouke that were Fushimi, Katsura, Arisukawa and Kan-in no-miyake until the Meiji Restoration. The Seshuu shinnouke were abolished then because the Imeprial House Laws (Koushi'tsu tenpan) were laid down to indicate the European (Prussian, I think) style line of succession for the new era. So, Shinnou senge was abolished, too, that the children of a reigning emperor were all styled as Shinnous and Naishinnous. Why this system was abolished ? It was because the seshuu shninous were remotely related to a reigning emperor by blood but they were able to claim the throne before the emperor's own children who were not given shinnou senge. When the system of the shinnou senge was abolished, with it, the seshuu shinou was abolished because without the senge they could not become shinnou. I am sorry if my explanation is not so good. Senge is like an imperial edict ? So, Shinnou or Naishinnou senge means the Imperial Edict of Creation of a Prince (or a Princess) of Blood or something like that.

Nyoin gou's "gou" means a "title". So it means the Nyoin title. The widows of emperors usually became Buddhist nuns after the death of or retirement of their husbands. So a Buddhistly title (In for men and Nyoin for women) was given to them. However, as you know, after the Meiji Restoration the strict separation of the Shintoism and Buddhism was announced by the new government, the concubines and members of the Imperial Family could not practice the Buddhist rite. So, even the mother Emperor Meiji, Yoshiko Nakayama, could not become a nyoin.

About Shirakawa Haku Ouke, this family's status then is very complicated to explain. In short, they were descendants of Shirakawa-no-miya but became a noble family the profession of which was "Jingi Haku" (Shinto priestly ministry) but when the head of the house became Jingi Haku, he was given a status of "Ou" (minor rank imperial prince) at the same time and became a minor ranked imperial prince. So, Shirakawa Haku Ouke may be translated as something like the House of Count Shinto Minister (Minor Ranked Imperial) Prince.

The Shirakawa Haku Ouke was given a comital title in 1878 and the head of the house became the Count Shirakawa, I think.
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Old 05-27-2012, 02:13 PM
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Wow. Assassination? Was the guy who made the threat against the Prime Minister arrested? I also sincerely hope that Mr. Takeda never becomes an Imperial Highness. At least with Hisahito, he can't claim the throne.
No, I don't think so because Takeda did not mention about the name of this man in question in his writing. If he were British, he would have been interviewed by the British police regarding this sort of man but in Japan such a thing did not happen. It is awful.

I personally feel very uncomfortable and alien towards such an opinion as bringing such men as Mr Takeda into the current Imperial Family.
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Old 05-27-2012, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mariaantoniapia View Post
As you know there were four seshuu shinnouke that were Fushimi, Katsura, Arisukawa and Kan-in no-miyake until the Meiji Restoration. The Seshuu shinnouke were abolished then because the Imeprial House Laws (Koushi'tsu tenpan) were laid down to indicate the European (Prussian, I think) style line of succession for the new era. So, Shinnou senge was abolished, too, that the children of a reigning emperor were all styled as Shinnous and Naishinnous. Why this system was abolished ? It was because the seshuu shninous were remotely related to a reigning emperor by blood but they were able to claim the throne before the emperor's own children who were not given shinnou senge. When the system of the shinnou senge was abolished, with it, the seshuu shinou was abolished because without the senge they could not become shinnou. I am sorry if my explanation is not so good. Senge is like an imperial edict ? So, Shinnou or Naishinnou senge means the Imperial Edict of Creation of a Prince (or a Princess) of Blood or something like that.
Thank you for the explanation, I understand perfectly what you mean. Before the Restoration the title had to be granted while after the Restoration the children and male-line grandchildren of an emperor were born with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariaantoniapia View Post
Nyoin gou's "gou" means a "title". So it means the Nyoin title. The widows of emperors usually became Buddhist nuns after the death of or retirement of their husbands. So a Buddhistly title (In for men and Nyoin for women) was given to them. However, as you know, after the Meiji Restoration the strict separation of the Shintoism and Buddhism was announced by the new government, the concubines and members of the Imperial Family could not practice the Buddhist rite. So, even the mother Emperor Meiji, Yoshiko Nakayama, could not become a nyoin.

About Shirakawa Haku Ouke, this family's status then is very complicated to explain. In short, they were descendants of Shirakawa-no-miya but became a noble family the profession of which was "Jingi Haku" (Shinto priestly ministry) but when the head of the house became Jingi Haku, he was given a status of "Ou" (minor rank imperial prince) at the same time and became a minor ranked imperial prince. So, Shirakawa Haku Ouke may be translated as something like the House of Count Shinto Minister (Minor Ranked Imperial) Prince.

The Shirakawa Haku Ouke was given a comital title in 1878 and the head of the house became the Count Shirakawa, I think.
Thank you for explaining! What I have always admired in the Japanese history is the peaceful coexistence of Shinto and Buddhism which is, in a way, exemplified by the two titles you have mentioned. You know that, in the past, we had very violent religious wars in Europe. For around 1000 years, people were killed in one form or other because they had the "wrong" creed which is really awful, in my opinion. It seems to me that it was Western influence that made Japan transform Shinto into "State Shinto" and use it as a means to control people´s hearts and minds for political purposes. It was a bad influence, and I think it would be good for Japan to return to its old ways of tolerance and coexistence.
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  #776  
Old 05-27-2012, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mariaantoniapia View Post
I think Mr Takeda wrote about his admiration of a man who said that he would assissnate Mr Koizumi the former PM if his government was to make a way for Aiko to become a Tenno. I have to look into my readings but I think he said this sort of thing in one of the Shinto magazines for which he is a columnist or something.

Many Japanese people as in the general public do not support this idea of such men as Mr Takeda whose grandfathers were Imperial Highnesses until 1947 to be made Imperial Highnesses now and in due course become Tenno because it does not seem correct even in a traditional sense for someone who was born outside the Kouzoku (the Imperial Family) to become our Tenno.
Oh my God! I have disliked Takeda before, among other things I have read an essay of his in which he "proves" that the position of the emperor has allegedly always been the same, before the Meiji Restoration, 1868-1945 and after the war (which is completely absurd). He ignores the known facts in a way that is - in my opinion - a shame for a serious historian, and that for purely political reasons, obviously.

But if he has actually publicly expressed his admiration for someone who has threatened to kill the Prime Minister (for whatever reason), that is still another story. For this, he could maybe even get sued in my country (depending on how serious he seemed and depending on how he worded his support), and it is rather probable that the police would have asked him quite a few questions. After all, it would not have been the first time that Japanese right-wingers used violence against someone who was, according to their standards, "insulting" the emperor.

Why does not the Japanese police do something about it? It should go without saying, in my opinion, that it is no acceptable behaviour to kill the Prime Minister, no matter how strongly you happen to disagree with his politics. Somebody who commends it should know that he is letting himself in for BIG trouble.
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  #777  
Old 05-27-2012, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mariaantoniapia View Post
About Shirakawa Haku Ouke, this family's status then is very complicated to explain. In short, they were descendants of Shirakawa-no-miya but became a noble family the profession of which was "Jingi Haku" (Shinto priestly ministry) but when the head of the house became Jingi Haku, he was given a status of "Ou" (minor rank imperial prince) at the same time and became a minor ranked imperial prince. So, Shirakawa Haku Ouke may be translated as something like the House of Count Shinto Minister (Minor Ranked Imperial) Prince.

The Shirakawa Haku Ouke was given a comital title in 1878 and the head of the house became the Count Shirakawa, I think.
I am sorry but I got this infor a bit wrong. The Shirakawa Haku Ouke was not the descendant of the Shirakawa-no-miya but of the Emperor Kazan who was given the Minamoto-no-kabane and became nobility with the surname of Shirakawa.
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  #778  
Old 05-27-2012, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiaraC View Post
Oh my God! I have disliked Takeda before, among other things I have read an essay of his in which he "proves" that the position of the emperor has allegedly always been the same, before the Meiji Restoration, 1868-1945 and after the war (which is completely absurd). He ignores the known facts in a way that is - in my opinion - a shame for a serious historian, and that for purely political reasons, obviously.

But if he has actually publicly expressed his admiration for someone who has threatened to kill the Prime Minister (for whatever reason), that is still another story. For this, he could maybe even get sued in my country (depending on how serious he seemed and depending on how he worded his support), and it is rather probable that the police would have asked him quite a few questions. After all, it would not have been the first time that Japanese right-wingers used violence against someone who was, according to their standards, "insulting" the emperor.

Why does not the Japanese police do something about it? It should go without saying, in my opinion, that it is no acceptable behaviour to kill the Prime Minister, no matter how strongly you happen to disagree with his politics. Somebody who commends it should know that he is letting himself in for BIG trouble.
Mr Takeda apparently wrote in a Shinto magazine (January 1, 2009) that he knew there was a man who was preparing to drive into the PM's residence in a lorry with 10 tons of gun powder and for this kind of man, Koizumi was worthy target to be assassinated because he was going to make the male imperial line extinct.

I am sorry my translation is not very good but I hope you get a gist of it.

In my opinion, too, Mr Takeda should have been interviewed by the police because he knew of a man was was a potential terrorist. Anyway, this kind of opinion of his gives him and his belief such a discredit because ..., who wants a man who advocate the assassination of a politician (in thiss case then-the PM) to become their emperor ? It gives me a chill and I will have such a great difficulty to respect and admire such an emperor or an emperor who is supported by such a belief.

Currently there are 7 men in the imperial family who can the successors of the Emperor Akihito, I think, but many of them are rather old. Prince Tomohito mentioned in 2005 in a magazine regarding his support of sokushi'tsu (imperial concubinage ?) but this is not such a good idea in my opinion. His daughter Princess Akiko also expressed her support of the maintenance of the male imperial line in a magazine (2010). However, her mother, the Prince's wife, Nobuko, wrote in a magazine that she did not find a female tenno so unnatural.
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariaantoniapia

Mr Takeda apparently wrote in a Shinto magazine (January 1, 2009) that he knew there was a man who was preparing to drive into the PM's residence in a lorry with 10 tons of gun powder and for this kind of man, Koizumi was worthy target to be assassinated because he was going to make the male imperial line extinct.

I am sorry my translation is not very good but I hope you get a gist of it.

In my opinion, too, Mr Takeda should have been interviewed by the police because he knew of a man was was a potential terrorist. Anyway, this kind of opinion of his gives him and his belief such a discredit because ..., who wants a man who advocate the assassination of a politician (in thiss case then-the PM) to become their emperor ? It gives me a chill and I will have such a great difficulty to respect and admire such an emperor or an emperor who is supported by such a belief.

Currently there are 7 men in the imperial family who can the successors of the Emperor Akihito, I think, but many of them are rather old. Prince Tomohito mentioned in 2005 in a magazine regarding his support of sokushi'tsu (imperial concubinage ?) but this is not such a good idea in my opinion. His daughter Princess Akiko also expressed her support of the maintenance of the male imperial line in a magazine (2010). However, her mother, the Prince's wife, Nobuko, wrote in a magazine that she did not find a female tenno so unnatural.
I don't think Mr Takeda will ever become Emperor, thankfully. He'd have to outlive Hisahito for that to be possible. I'm surprised there wasn't more investigation into this death threat. Killing the Prime Minister would be a great threat to national security. I hope top politicians are well protected in Japan.

I'd be interested to know your views on the succession issue. I believe you asked about mine earlier on the thread. I'm a pragmatist when it comes to succession. I think the continuity of the institution is more important than patrilineal descent. course, they may be lucky and Hisahito may have many sons and the male line may never go extinct. But there is a possibility that at some point in the future (maybe even in the next generation), they run out of heirs and have to consider alternatives including female succession. Throughout history, who gets to be monarch is influenced by the political and social realities of the time. I think it would be better to put safeguards in now to stabilize the institution.
One thing I wouldn't support is making the Princesses marry someone descended from the male line, especially if they are like Mr Takeda (and I hope he's an exception)!

But my opinion obviously matters less than a Japanese person's. What do you think?
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Esmerelda View Post
I don't think Mr Takeda will ever become Emperor, thankfully. He'd have to outlive Hisahito for that to be possible. I'm surprised there wasn't more investigation into this death threat. Killing the Prime Minister would be a great threat to national security. I hope top politicians are well protected in Japan.

I'd be interested to know your views on the succession issue. I believe you asked about mine earlier on the thread. I'm a pragmatist when it comes to succession. I think the continuity of the institution is more important than patrilineal descent. course, they may be lucky and Hisahito may have many sons and the male line may never go extinct. But there is a possibility that at some point in the future (maybe even in the next generation), they run out of heirs and have to consider alternatives including female succession. Throughout history, who gets to be monarch is influenced by the political and social realities of the time. I think it would be better to put safeguards in now to stabilize the institution.
One thing I wouldn't support is making the Princesses marry someone descended from the male line, especially if they are like Mr Takeda (and I hope he's an exception)!

But my opinion obviously matters less than a Japanese person's. What do you think?
I personally think it is good if Aiko was allowed to become the Crown Princess in due course because it is only natural for most people in Japan if she succeeded her father Naruhito. There are two opinions in Japan: one is a josei tenno or a female emperor and another is a nyokei tenno or matrilineal emperor. Some people support the possibility of josei tenno but oppose the idea of nyokei tenno. In history of Japan, there were eight women who became Josei Tenno but no nyokei tenno. However, many people are not always sure about the different between the Josei Tenno and Nyokei Tenno.

I support both ideas of the Josei Tenno and the Nyokei Tenno and I would oppose the idea of forcing Aiko or any other princesses to marry a male descendant of an old miyake. It all seems so unnatural.

In the UK, things seem more different that women can succeed the throne like your present queen did but in Japan it has been Salic since the Meiji Restoration that women are excluded from the succession completely. Even if they were allowed to succeed the throne, many ultra right wing people will oppose the idea of a child of a Josei Tenno to succeed throne because they say that it will be the end of the male line.

I have a great respect towards the Emperor & the Empress that I really hope this succession law will be changed in due course to allow the female succession and accept the matrilineal succession as well.

Sorry, my English is not so good but hope you understand me what I think regarding this issue.
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