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  #61  
Old 07-24-2011, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiberivs View Post
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The article at your link dates back to 2004. The boss of IHA nowadays is the Owadas' long term friend. What was your point, anyway?
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  #62  
Old 07-24-2011, 10:31 PM
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No, arent they one monarchy that actually serves a purpose?
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  #63  
Old 07-25-2011, 12:03 AM
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I think they are. they have to be the only RF that isn't loaded with one scandal after another and in terms of wealth are actually quite poor.
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  #64  
Old 07-25-2011, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Kasumi View Post

The article at your link dates back to 2004. The boss of IHA nowadays is the Owadas' long term friend. What was your point, anyway?
The IHA? I didn't wrote a word about the IHA. Please re-read my post.

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Originally Posted by Tiberivs View Post
Very observant of you, however you neglected to mention the reason for this. In affect the radical right would hurt anybody that would suggest abolishing the monarchy, hell even "disrespecting" the Imperial family by the neglecting to mention a member honorific title could get you stabbed.

Now, in that kind of atmosphere, do you really think Japan could have a open discussion about the necessity of the Emperor? I would think not.
And my point is that free discussion about the monarchy is suppressed by the radical right, usually when people need to resort to violence to repress free discussion its mean that the issue is far from being consensus among the people. So the point of about the lack of serious discussion about the abolishment of the monarchy is irrelevant.

Not to mention that the fact the Imperial family are the most imminent symbol to xenophobic, racist, militaristic and anti-democratic group is hardly a positive indication to them having a good influence in a democratic Japan.
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  #65  
Old 07-25-2011, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Tiberivs View Post
Not to mention that the fact the Imperial family are the most imminent symbol to xenophobic, racist, militaristic and anti-democratic group is hardly a positive indication to them having a good influence in a democratic Japan.
As far as I am informed you are still right on this one. But IMO we have the paradoxical situation in Japan that the institution of the monarchy may be anti-democratic while its actual representatives are not. The situation reminds me to some degree of that of Spain after Franco. (Please do not take me wrong: there are, of course, many differences concerning history, background, political situation, continent...) But what we saw in Spain was that the individual that happens to be king (or emperor) can make an important difference in a certain historical situation. Juan Carlos was meant to be Franco´s heir (by Franco). According to his role, he should have supported the right-winger militarist forces.
But he did not. Instead, he saved the Spanish democracy.

For more details of my opininion (if anybody is interested) please see here:
Is Japan’s Monarchy Anti-Democratic? | The Royal Forums
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ChiaraC View Post
As far as I am informed you are still right on this one. But IMO we have the paradoxical situation in Japan that the institution of the monarchy may be anti-democratic while its actual representatives are not. The situation reminds me to some degree of that of Spain after Franco. (Please do not take me wrong: there are, of course, many differences concerning history, background, political situation, continent...) But what we saw in Spain was that the individual that happens to be king (or emperor) can make an important difference in a certain historical situation. Juan Carlos was meant to be Franco´s heir (by Franco). According to his role, he should have supported the right-winger militarist forces.
But he did not. Instead, he saved the Spanish democracy.

For more details of my opininion (if anybody is interested) please see here:
Is Japan’s Monarchy Anti-Democratic? | The Royal Forums
Thanks for the link, I tend to agree with you that the present Emperor seem to be pretty decent guy who truly sorry for Japan's imperialist past and desire to have strong bonds of friends with Asian neighbors and former colonies, he for example refuse to visit the shrine where several war crimes were deified - the PM for example visit it.

The comparison to Spain is very interesting, the different to my view that while the Spanish King manage to reform the Royal establishment to be in tune with the democratic Spain the Japanese Emperor seem too weak to manage to do this.
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  #67  
Old 07-25-2011, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Tiberivs View Post
Very observant of you, however you neglected to mention the reason for this. In affect the radical right would hurt anybody that would suggest abolishing the monarchy, hell even "disrespecting" the Imperial family by the neglecting to mention a member honorific title could get you stabbed.

Now, in that kind of atmosphere, do you really think Japan could have a open discussion about the necessity of the Emperor? I would think not.


Oh, and that´s why it has to be discussed at a royal intenet forum...?!
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  #68  
Old 07-25-2011, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Tiberivs View Post
Thanks for the link, I tend to agree with you that the present Emperor seem to be pretty decent guy who truly sorry for Japan's imperialist past and desire to have strong bonds of friends with Asian neighbors and former colonies, he for example refuse to visit the shrine where several war crimes were deified - the PM for example visit it.
Yes, and in 2001 the emperor shocked the press by talking in detail about his Korean roots. (He said he had read in an eighth-century official history document that the mother of Emperor Kammu (736-806) was a descendant of Muryeong, the 25th king of Baekje, one of three ancient kingdoms on the peninsula.) The speech was front-page news in Korea whereas the huge majority of Japanese newspapers completely ignored it because they were afraid of the reaction from nationalists...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberivs View Post
The comparison to Spain is very interesting, the different to my view that while the Spanish King manage to reform the Royal establishment to be in tune with the democratic Spain the Japanese Emperor seem too weak to manage to do this.
I agree with you but it I think that it was also the special historical situation that gave this power to the Spanish king. There was an open conflict between militarists and democrats. And that in that situation the king took a clear stand and said: if you want to abolish the democracy I am the first you have to shoot, that was, IMO, the moment when he really changed history. He is a constitutional monarch, like Akihito, and nowadays does not have much political power.

There is no such situation in Japan that would give the emperor a chance to really have an impact on things. But if there ever were to be an open conflict in Japan between democrats and right-winger nationalists, I am rather sure which side the emperor (and even more the crown prince) would take. Of course, it is possible, that such a situation will never become reality - especially as the idea of an open conflict is rather un-Japanese in itself....
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  #69  
Old 07-25-2011, 12:30 PM
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It is legitimate (and interesting) to have a debate about how far the right-wing influence in Japan still goes today, if the racism that has undoubtedly played a part in Japan´s history has still a meaningful influence or has finally been reduced to the cranky pastime of some outdated relics.

I do not know what Tiberivs has read but he might, for example, have heard that Ivan Hall, a historian of Japan and former diplomat, calls Japan’s monarchy the “ultimate linchpin of the myth of Japanese uniqueness and the lodestar for the most repressive ideas of racial superiority.”
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  #70  
Old 07-25-2011, 01:24 PM
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I do no think that Mr.Hall is an ultimate authority on the Japanese culture and history. Japanese Emperors are the linchpins of the nation during hard times. This makes them unique and irreplaceable.
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  #71  
Old 07-25-2011, 02:26 PM
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I do no think that Mr.Hall is an ultimate authority on the Japanese culture and history. Japanese Emperors are the linchpins of the nation during hard times. This makes them unique and irreplaceable.
Albina, my point here is not whether Mr. Hall is an ultimate authority on the Japanese culture and history or not. (Incidentally, I doubt that anybody could fairly be called an ULTIMATE authority on the Japanese culture and history. Who should that be?) My point is not even if I agree with him or not. Actually, I hope that those who have read some of my posts are aware that I am not in favour of abolishing the monarchy in Japan. (Not that I think that anybody would ask me.)

In quoting Ivan Hall I was answering to <a deleted post> who made it sound as if only somebody who had never read anything relevant on Japan could talk about a connection of racism and the institution of the monarchy in Japan. And that is simply not true. There are many experts on Japan who are discussing it. And it is also true that in the past there have been incidents that showed that persons who criticize the emperor might be physically attacked. Of course, one could fairly question whether this could still happen nowadays but it is IMO not so absurd as to tell a poster who claims that it could, that he simply has no clue. And even IF somebody feels the urgent and irrepressible need to say that, then I would prefer this to be expressed in a respectful way.

I hope it is clearer now...
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  #72  
Old 07-31-2011, 04:12 PM
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It is up to the people of Japan. However, I do think they might be the baby out with bath water if they do abolish the monarchy.
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  #73  
Old 07-31-2011, 04:28 PM
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Having re-read this thread, I think they have far more important problems to contend with, e.g. nuclear disasters, earth quakes etc.
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  #74  
Old 08-20-2011, 07:21 PM
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Gracious! No! Absolutely, positively no! The Japanese monarchy is the most ancient reigning dynasty in the world, the oldest succession in human history. Getting rid of it would be a crime, not just for Japan but for world history. Think of everything in all those centuries of history that the monarchy has survived just to have them tossed aside now on a democratic whim because the people are bored or something? Unthinkable. I mean, the Emperor of Japan is the only person in the world who can look at the Queen of Denmark, the Queen of England or even the Pope and say, 'oh yeah, the "new" guys'. The people can give them power or take away their power, I don't care, but no one has the right to say someone is not who they are. Japan without an emperor wouldn't be Japan.

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  #75  
Old 08-21-2011, 01:37 PM
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... I mean, the Emperor of Japan is the only person in the world who can look at the Queen of Denmark, the Queen of England or even the Pope and say, 'oh yeah, the "new" guys'...
You are so funny!
You've made my day with your "new guys", thank you.
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  #76  
Old 08-25-2011, 03:31 PM
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Everyone recognizes the Japanese emperor and the royal family and the people of japan must love and respect them but they will have issues in the future possibly and will eventually end unless who knows how much longer they will last.
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  #77  
Old 08-26-2011, 05:21 PM
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I mean, the Emperor of Japan is the only person in the world who can look at the Queen of Denmark, the Queen of England or even the Pope and say, 'oh yeah, the "new" guys'.
LMAO! That is rich and hilarious. There we go case closed. If the English insist on keeping their monarchy because of history and tradition, then that works 10 fold for the Japanese monarchy.
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  #78  
Old 07-05-2014, 12:07 PM
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Long live the yamato dynasty!!
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