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  #61  
Old 12-26-2015, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
I think she was wearing dead chinchillas. In an earlier post on another thread I said I was prepared to cut her some slack for wearing dead animals as long as they were farmed, but then I saw some photos like this one: http://investigations.peta.org/chinc...illa-cages.jpg and read this Chinchilla Fur - Animal Ethics RI and I've shrugged off the Christmas spirit-induced warm feelings of understanding and charity towards her Majesty regarding this issue.

Breeding and keeping those beautiful little animals in those conditions for the purpose of killing them and selling the fur to decorate wealthy people's coats is despicable, in my opinion, and amounts to animal cruelty, and it is wrong for a woman in such a position of power and esteem to support that industry and promote their product. At least the animals killed for the ivory that Prince William so despises were living a normal, free, life before being killed. I wonder what Prince William thinks about his granny wearing that coat?
I read that the fur on the Queen's red outfit was faux fur
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  #62  
Old 12-26-2015, 08:28 AM
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I read that the fur on the Queen's red outfit was faux fur
I hope you're right, but I read one comment that it was a vintage coat, which implies it was made before there was a protest movement against fur. I don't understand the concept of faux fur. If you don't think you should be wearing real fur - which does have some very real advantages in very cold climates - why on earth wear some synthetic concoction that is supposed to look like real fur and rarely does? Why not just wear something like cashmere, which is super-soft, warm as toast, and a resource that does not require the donating animal to be killed?
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  #63  
Old 12-26-2015, 09:30 AM
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I hope you're right, but I read one comment that it was a vintage coat, which implies it was made before there ws a pr rotest movement against fur. I don't understand the concept of faux r. If you don't think you should be wearing real fur - which does have some very real advantages in very cold climates - why on earth wear some synthetic concoction that is supposed to look like real fur and rarely does? Why not just wear something like cashmere, which is super-soft, warm as toast, and a resource that does not require the donating animal to be killed?
Is the argument against wearing real fur rather duplicitous? If one can kill an animal to eat it, one can just as well kill it to keep warm.
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  #64  
Old 12-26-2015, 04:41 PM
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HM doesn't live in a cave or a tent. A person who leads the sort of life that she does can keep warm without wearing animal fur. There's a big difference between keeping and killing animals for food and breeding and killing them for the sake of nothing more than human vanity.
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  #65  
Old 12-26-2015, 04:41 PM
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Is the argument against wearing real fur rather duplicitous? If one can kill an animal to eat it, one can just as well kill it to keep warm.

That's been my thought as well. Many people wear clothing made out of leather etc.

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  #66  
Old 12-26-2015, 05:04 PM
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Yes but the animals the leather comes from is being eaten. BTW one of the largest suppliers of leather is India and they don't kill the cows, they make the leather from the cows after they have died.

Have you heard of people eating chinchilla meat? Or mink meat? Or even fox meat? Fox perhaps but that is pretty rare.

Its one thing to hunt an animal and use the hide as well as the meat. Its another to kill them simply for a fashion statement.
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  #67  
Old 12-26-2015, 05:17 PM
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I think she wore a real fur coat she has owned since at least the early 1960s to the early morning service and then for the later, more public, service wore a new red outfit and hat which was trimmed which faux fur according to some reports.
Personally I don't see the issue with wearing a fur coat if you already own it, bearing in mind fur wasn't such an issue back in the 60s, it might as well be used to keep warm rather than gather moth balls in a wardrobe IMO.
If the fur on her new outfit is faux I suspect it shows that the Queen is mindful of current feeling towards fur but, ever practical, doesn't see this as a reason not to wear an already existing fur coat to what is traditionally a private event (the early morning church service never traditionally being photographed until very recently).
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  #68  
Old 12-26-2015, 06:02 PM
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The mink coat was from 1961 it looked lovely, I have no idea if the fur on the red was real or not. It was an attractive outfit.
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  #69  
Old 12-26-2015, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
I hope you're right, but I read one comment that it was a vintage coat, which implies it was made before there was a protest movement against fur. I don't understand the concept of faux fur. If you don't think you should be wearing real fur - which does have some very real advantages in very cold climates - why on earth wear some synthetic concoction that is supposed to look like real fur and rarely does? Why not just wear something like cashmere, which is super-soft, warm as toast, and a resource that does not require the donating animal to be killed?
I have to agree. I think a lot of confusion this year has been because the media were too slack to get up that early so only a few photos covered the early church service which surprisingly, almost the entire house party attended.
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  #70  
Old 12-27-2015, 06:07 AM
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Is the argument against wearing real fur rather duplicitous? If one can kill an animal to eat it, one can just as well kill it to keep warm.
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
HM doesn't live in a cave or a tent. A person who leads the sort of life that she does can keep warm without wearing animal fur. There's a big difference between keeping and killing animals for food and breeding and killing them for the sake of nothing more than human vanity.
But I suspect the argument for vegetarianism sounds very similar. Man can live on vegetables and dairy, what is the need to kill animals to eat?
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  #71  
Old 12-27-2015, 07:58 AM
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We are an omniverous species. We are designed to eat flesh as well as nuts and fruit.
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  #72  
Old 12-27-2015, 11:37 AM
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The Queen is nearly 90 years old to expect her to stop wearing fur is ridiculous. I think she is used to it likes it and that is that.
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  #73  
Old 12-27-2015, 12:21 PM
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We are an omniverous species. We are designed to eat flesh as well as nuts and fruit.
Omniverous doesn't mean we Wear the flesh of other animals, well fur. Are you arguing the queen eats minks and chinchillas?
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  #74  
Old 12-27-2015, 04:36 PM
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The Queen is nearly 90 years old to expect her to stop wearing fur is ridiculous. I think she is used to it likes it and that is that.

If anyone wants to wear fur, they should be able to. Regardless of age/status and without harassment.


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  #75  
Old 12-27-2015, 07:00 PM
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Omniverous doesn't mean we Wear the flesh of other animals, well fur. Are you arguing the queen eats minks and chinchillas?
I am not suggesting any such thing. The quality of being omniverous relates to what an animal eats, not what it might wear. In any event, as far as I know, Homo sapiens is the only extant species that wears body coverings.

I don't expect the Queen to stop wearing fur, I just wish she would.
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  #76  
Old 12-27-2015, 07:43 PM
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Homo sapiens is the only extant species that wears body coverings.
Alas, not so.. some stupid/cruel Humans delight in dressing up their dogs, making them ridiculous as well as uncomfortable !
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  #77  
Old 12-27-2015, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
I am not suggesting any such thing. The quality of being omniverous relates to what an animal eats, not what it might wear. In any event, as far as I know, Homo sapiens is the only extant species that wears body coverings.

I don't expect the Queen to stop wearing fur, I just wish she would.
Well the debate is about wearing fur not eating meat, so I fail to see what your 'humans are omniverous' has to do with this argument, unless you are implying they are also eating the minks and chinchillas
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  #78  
Old 12-27-2015, 10:02 PM
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Well the debate is about wearing fur not eating meat, so I fail to see what your 'humans are omniverous' has to do with this argument, unless you are implying they are also eating the minks and chinchillas
You're quite right about the wider discussion, but I was responding to the comment about vegetarianism in Muriel's post, No. 70, which was immediately before mine. I shouldn't have though, because that subject is off topic.
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  #79  
Old 12-27-2015, 11:39 PM
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[QUOTE=Roslyn;1851175]I am not suggesting any such thing. The quality of being omniverous relates to what an animal eats, not what it might wear. In any event, as far as I know, Homo sapiens is the only extant species that wears body coverings.

Perhaps because the meagerly hair we are allocated with does not do a sufficient job of keeping us warm. We have to resort to other means of keeping warm. As long as we are using leather and eating meat, neither which are necessary and could easily be replaced with non-animal sources, using the fur for clothing is just fine with me. The use of animals for our own needs are cruel, yet most of us do not blink an eye in eating cheese or putting milk in our tea or cafe latte yet the cows producing the milk is lactating long after the calves have stopped suckling just so we can enjoy the dairy products we want.
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  #80  
Old 12-28-2015, 06:58 AM
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I'm going to throw my spoonful of barley into the soup here about HM and her use of wearing fur. From what I've gathered from this past holiday in pictures going to service, she's worn a vintage fur coat to one and one with possibly faux fur trimmings or for all we know, fur that has been recycled into a different outfit.

To feel its not right to use animals for clothing is a big issue and personally, I think the issue needs to be taken up with the trappers and the manufacturers that kill these animals and then make clothing from them for retail. If that is stopped as William is trying to do with illegal poaching, its a step in the right direction.

HM wearing a fur coat that has been hers for a long time isn't going to bring the animal back and I believe that HM is very much like many of her generation that believes in "waste not, want not" just as it would be a crime to destroy every precious item of ivory that already do exist.

My stance is that I prefer to wear fur that still has the animal in it but I do have a beautiful suede jacket with mink panels that was my mother's. Would I feel wrong wearing it out? No.

ETA: As far as the milk, cheese and dairy issues presented, I see that as a gift from an animal that is still living.
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