The Royals and the Third Reich

[Lillia]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

I think also we have to remember that National Socialism was a wonderful new theory in Germany. It was brilliant and people followed because it brought the ordinary German success and prosperity. It was only after the war that the holocaust was actually revealed, so people who were in the party, the Pope and Prince Philip's relatives included, would have seen only good in Nazism.

Well, interesting idea -- but I think that like most things, people only see and acknowledge what they want. I certainly was not born back then, but I would have to think that at least some of the ordinary Germans knew what was going on, in spite of all the wonderous things that they may have benifitted from because of it. And even while it may not have been that they themselves were visiting camps and all, and that at least a few ordinary people knew what was going on politically -- I would think it abit of a stretch that ordinary people would have known absolutely nothing at all and were innocent/ignorant of what would have been happening in their own country. But of course, that's just my own opinion, I was not there, so I would not have a personal experience of that.

This is just a question, not mean to offend anyone but only to inquire on the context of the above posting -- would that mean then that those stories I heard about other ordinary people being taken away or being forced to wear ceetain identifying markers and things like that would have happened away from the view of ordinary people, but occured only in very select areas and not really widespread around the country and out in the open?

Again, my question is a mere inquiry and actually an invitation for someone/anyone to educate me more on the subject if they would know -- I mean no offence to anyone.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Lillia

This is just a question, not mean to offend anyone but only to inquire on the context of the above posting -- would that mean then that those stories I heard about other ordinary people being taken away or being forced to wear certain identifying markers and things like that would have happened away from the view of ordinary people, but occured only in very select areas and not really widespread around the country and out in the open?

Again, my question is a mere inquiry and actually an invitation for someone/anyone to educate me more on the subject if they would know -- I mean no offence to anyone.

It happened mainly in the poorer areas to start with, I don't think the 'better' areas were as affected.

The royals concerned were just ordinary people, trying to survive and just like ordinary people now, couldn't believe that anyone could possibly be so wicked. If you are incapable of such an atrocity yourself, It is beyond your belief that anyone else could do such things.

[Yennie]

Recently there have been discussions in swedish press about prince Gustav Adolf (father of the present King) and his relations with germany. He was married to Sibylla, born in Germany in a noble family. Her father was a nazi and friends with Hitler.
Per Svennsson writes in the book "Han som aldrig fick bli kung" that the circle that the prince belonged to often sympathized with Hitler, but that it is impossible to say if the prince had nazi sympaties
Nina Eldh at the swedish royal court says:
I dont know if the prince ever said anything that could imply that he symapthized with the nazis

There was a photo published where the prince is seen giving money to a nazi at some social event in Berlin 1939


photo from expressen

http://expressen.se/index.jsp?a=541796

[melissajames]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

I think also we have to remember that National Socialism was a wonderful new theory in Germany. It was brilliant and people followed because it brought the ordinary German success and prosperity. It was only after the war that the holocaust was actually revealed, so people who were in the party, the Pope and Prince Philip's relatives included, would have seen only good in Nazism.

Do you think the propaganda actually concealed the holocaust and what are the chances that the royals did not know about it?

[Lady Marmalade]

I love the flow of ideas on here.

I cannot wait for this book now to see all of our reactions once we have had a chance to read it.

You are alluding to some great points Sam. Prince Philip himself said in published newspapers quotes that the effects of what occured at the BEGINNING under Hitler were not that bad in the sense of trains running on time and the economy expanding.

I AM JUST REPEATING WHAT I HAD FROM VARIOUS BRITISH NEWSPAPERS WEBSITES IN THE PAST WEEK.

IN NO WAY AM I PUTTING WORDS IN HRH PRINCE PHILIP'S MOUTH.

Thank you all.

[BeatrixFan]

Well people had to wear yellow, pink and red stars AFAIK. And yes, there were Aryan-only areas. Jews were restricted from doing alot, so the German people would have seen it.

[Lillia]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

Well people had to wear yellow, pink and red stars AFAIK. And yes, there were Aryan-only areas. Jews were restricted from doing alot, so the German people would have seen it.

What is AFAIK?

And I do understand your point about the idea being, in theory, one that was well recieved, at least in the beginning (I think that's what you mean -- if not, please do correct me) for what it seemed to offer, I mean the percieved benefits, not really the bad things

[BeatrixFan]

AFAIK : As far as I know

That is what I meant. And to be honest, Hitler was such an inspiring man and was a great orator so he could make you believe anything - and people did. Listen to his speeches sometime - they make your spine tingle.

[Lillia]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

AFAIK : As far as I know

That is what I meant. And to be honest, Hitler was such an inspiring man and was a great orator so he could make you believe anything - and people did. Listen to his speeches sometime - they make your spine tingle.

Yes, I've heard commentators say that he had alot of charisma, which helped him to gain popularity, and he probably said alot of the things that people wanted to hear or needed to hear about themselves.

Politicians today bank on their own charisma as well to get what they want, which could also be a scary thing if people today are not careful and vigilant, I think.

[susan alicia]

any thoughts about what the followers of Hitler did to lovely men like the one portrayed by marcello mastroianni in:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076085/

wonder if that makes your spine tingle too.

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

AFAIK : As far as I know

That is what I meant. And to be honest, Hitler was such an inspiring man and was a great orator so he could make you believe anything - and people did. Listen to his speeches sometime - they make your spine tingle.

[Lady Jennifer]

Just wondering but isn't this book out already? I was just looking on Barnes & Noble & there is a book with the same name (or at least pretty close)- Royals and the Reich: The Princes von Hessen in Nazi Germany
This book came out in Feb. 2006

[michelleq]

I'm sorry, but what is the name of this book that is due out soon?

[Warren]

Originally Posted by michelleq

I'm sorry, but what is the name of this book that is due out soon?

"Royals and the Reich: the Princes von Hessen in Nazi Germany."
See Lady Jennifer's post #25 below for more detail.

[michelleq]

Originally Posted by Warren

"Royals and the Reich: the Princes von Hessen in Nazi Germany."
See Lady Jennifer's post #25 below for more detail.

Thanks again Warren! I can actually read, even though I may not be able to prove it per some of my post!

LOL!!!

[alejandro_sk]

Originally Posted by Warren

"Royals and the Reich: the Princes von Hessen in Nazi Germany."

Hello everybody!
Sorry to come back to this topic but could someone who has read the book tell me more about who these two princes were? (BTW, Martin's away so he couldn't tell me :( )
The only Prince Phillipp von Hessen-Cassel I could find was born in the 16thC!!!
Thank you!
Alejandro

[Warren]

Originally Posted by alejandro_sk

Hello everybody!
Sorry to come back to this topic but could someone tell me more about who these two princes were? The only Prince Phillipp von Hessen-Cassel I could find was born in the 16thC!!!

Princes Philipp and Christoph of Hesse were sons of Friedrich Karl, the Landgrave of Hesse (-Cassel) who married a daughter of Queen Victoria's daughter Vicky (Empress Frederick).

• Christoph (1901- killed in action 1943) was married to Princess Sophie of Greece, a sister of the current Duke of Edinburgh.

• Philipp (1896-1980) became Landgrave of Hesse and Head of All the House of Hesse. He was married to Princess Mafalda, a daughter of King Vittorio Emanuele III of Italy.

Of the two Princes, Albert Speer only mentions Philipp in his book 'Inside the Third Reich': "He was one of the few followers whom Hitler always treated with deference and respect. Philipp had often been useful to him, and especially in the early years of the Third Reich had arranged contacts with the heads of Italian Fascism. In addition he had helped Hitler purchase valuable art works [in Italy]."

In 1943 Prince Philipp was invited to Hitler's Headquarters where he was placed under house arrest, and then he and Princess Mafalda were taken to Buchenwald (where she died in 1944). Speer suggests Philipp was arrested in revenge for the fall of Mussolini, as an example to his inner circle that no-one was "safe", and because Hitler suspected Philipp was leaking information to the Italians.

[alejandro_sk]

Originally Posted by Warren

Princes Philipp and Christoph of Hesse were sons of Friedrich Karl, the Landgrave of Hesse (-Cassel) who married a daughter of Queen Victoria's daughter Vicky (Empress Frederick).

• Christoph (1901- killed in action 1943) was married to Princess Sophie of Greece, a sister of the current Duke of Edinburgh.

• Philipp (1896-1980) became Landgrave of Hesse and Head of All the House of Hesse. He was married to Princess Mafalda, a daughter of King Vittorio Emanuele III of Italy.

Of the two Princes, Albert Speer only mentions Philipp in his book 'Inside the Third Reich': "He was one of the few followers whom Hitler always treated with deference and respect. Philipp had often been useful to him, and especially in the early years of the Third Reich had arranged contacts with the heads of Italian Fascism. In addition he had helped Hitler purchase valuable art works [in Italy]."

In 1943 Prince Philipp was invited to Hitler's Headquarters where he was placed under house arrest, and then he and Princess Mafalda were taken to Buchenwald (where she died in 1944). Speer suggests Philipp was arrested in revenge for the fall of Mussolini, as an example to his inner circle that no-one was "safe", and because Hitler suspected Philipp was leaking information to the Italians.

Hi Warren!
Thank you for the info. I think there was more in the title than in the book. Maybe the writer was trying to achieve rapid fame.
Have you read the book? What do you think about it? Is it objective, fair, etc.?
Take care!
Alejandro

[oskana]

i dont buy anyone who says that people (ordinary or not) didnt know about the holocaust and the abuse prior to that. ofcourse many knew and some didnt. many chose to turn a blind eye which was understandable. in the beggining nazism was well recieved not only bec of Hitler's charisma but also bec of deteriorating economic conditions in germany of that time. nazism provided a solution (or so believed) to those problems. I hope this book is informative rather than to simply shame or embarass royals.

[HRH Kerry]

The book received 5 stars from Amazon.com so besides my interest from the posts by you guys, I'd say its going to be an enlightening read. I'm going to be out and about today and if I don't find it at one of my local bookstores then I will be ordering from Amazon tonight.

[BeatrixFan]

Do you think the propaganda actually concealed the holocaust and what are the chances that the royals did not know about it?

It's possible. I believe that the ordinary Germans were told that the Jews were in Labour camps or were being sent away to be transported to other countries. Very few people knew about them being killed - and those who lived nearby either worked in the camps or were moved out and troops moved in.