"The Firm" - Penny Junor - Page 2

MariaS · #21 08-03-2005, 01:32 PM

Interesting speculation. Behind the scenes nonnegotiable camilla was always demanding charles give her lots of attention (telephone calls, visits, parties, and so on) before and after she and the spencers insisted that charles have a "marriage ceremony" with diana and that it be televised wedding of the century (invalid as coercion and forced marriage invalid the legality of such; ditto with Mrs. Camilla Parker Bowles insisting on her own public civil union--she is irreverent). Their thinking is that since his union with his spouse was in private and not televised, that if it was not shown on television and no one was told about it then it is not real (as the former Pope would say and some media people, if you don't see it on television then it didn't happen). We are wondering when tagalong will move along. Mrs. Camilla Parker Bowles (still wed to Andrew Parker Bowles as no annullment of the Most Holy Roman Catholic marriage til death do them part has been obtained from the Vatican) is with empty title of Duchess (not Princess or Queen with the agreement of Mrs. Camilla Parker Bowles) that has no duties, no budget, and no income. She is just there as a nonnegotiable tagalong who the tabloids say is carrying on an affair with her former husband, Mr. Andrew Parker Bowles who is still her spouse. As you know, neither spousal arrangements nor marriages require that any one provide food, housing, clothing, sex, or inheritances to the other person--all that is the business deal side of marriages and is not even broached in spousal arrangements

tiaraprin · #22 08-03-2005, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissy57

And then we wouldn't even known about her existence and the world wouldn't have her to worship.

I wrote what I did because ultimately Diana deserved to be happy and that is what I most wish for. Her life was short and full of strife. She deserved better, even if we never knew her.

tiaraprin · #23 08-03-2005, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by una

Yes, I see that Charles was somewhat immature too, but I think a fairly "normal" woman could support him. But with Diana, I think only a rare man indeed could have supported her. I don't think we realize just how emotionally demanding she was, and how much support she needed -- living with her on a daily basis would require the patience of a saint. When she was in Buckingham P. before the marriage, she used her footman for support, frequently asking him to stay with her and chat. Here's what he said: "I had night after night talking to her. I would go up at 11 pm to my room exhausted from listening to her. It was terribly mentally draining." And he didn't have the added burden of her mood swings and jealousy.

Charles was "somewhat" immature?? That is too funny!! The man is a spoiled, self-absorbed human being who only looks to his comfort and needs. And his biggest need is Camilla, who somehow fufills his lack of emotional security and "love". He has tried to give his sons some of what he lacked, but Charles is not equipped as a father should be.

iowabelle · #24 08-03-2005, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by una

When she was in Buckingham P. before the marriage, she used her footman for support, frequently asking him to stay with her and chat. Here's what he said: "I had night after night talking to her. I would go up at 11 pm to my room exhausted from listening to her. It was terribly mentally draining." And he didn't have the added burden of her mood swings and jealousy.

Una, who was the footman? Not Burrell? Curious.

Laura

iowabelle · #25 08-03-2005, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiaraprin

Charles was "somewhat" immature?? That is too funny!! The man is a spoiled, self-absorbed human being who only looks to his comfort and needs. And his biggest need is Camilla, who somehow fufills his lack of emotional security and "love". He has tried to give his sons some of what he lacked, but Charles is not equipped as a father should be.

Since the revelations about Charles and his married women, I have come to realize the ironic similarities between Charles and the last Prince of Wales. I hope that Camilla is kinder to Charles than Wallis was to her husband.

Idriel · #26 08-03-2005, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by una

Yes, I see that Charles was somewhat immature too, but I think a fairly "normal" woman could support him. But with Diana, I think only a rare man indeed could have supported her. I don't think we realize just how emotionally demanding she was, and how much support she needed -- living with her on a daily basis would require the patience of a saint. When she was in Buckingham P. before the marriage, she used her footman for support, frequently asking him to stay with her and chat. Here's what he said: "I had night after night talking to her. I would go up at 11 pm to my room exhausted from listening to her. It was terribly mentally draining." And he didn't have the added burden of her mood swings and jealousy.

Somewhat immature? Charles is a first class nevrotic. I don't blame him, he had a pretty dreadful childhood.
You tell Diana would spend hours talking to her footman. Well if she had a loving husband next to her and wasn't left on her own, I don't think that would be necessary.
I agree Diana was demanding and had issue (and was at least has much nevrotic than her hubby), but you need to remember that when she married Charles, she was a immature (emotionally and intellectually). Nobody (the RF, Charles, the Palace) even tried to help her. All the doubts, Charles' ambiguous relationships with other women and the loneliness just made her mental state worst.
Would have Charles loved her (or at least pretended), she would have grown up.

**Warren** · #27 08-04-2005, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MariaS

Mrs. Camilla Parker Bowles (still wed to Andrew Parker Bowles as no annullment of the Most Holy Roman Catholic marriage til death do them part has been obtained from the Vatican) is with empty title of Duchess (not Princess or Queen.. who the tabloids say is carrying on an affair with her former husband, Mr. Andrew Parker Bowles who is still her spouse.

aah, if the tabloids are saying Camilla is having an affair with "her former husband Mr Andrew Parker Bowles who is still her spouse" then it MUST be true.

I wonder if Mr APB's current wife is aware he is still married to his first? Surely the Vatican should be condemned for its silence on this shocking state of affairs?
.

Idriel · #28 08-04-2005, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren

aah, if the tabloids are saying Camilla is having an affair with "her former husband Mr Andrew Parker Bowles who is still her spouse" then it MUST be true.

I wonder if Mr APB's current wife is aware he is still married to his first? Surely the Vatican should be condemned for its silence on this shocking state of affairs?
.

:p . ....

iowabelle · #29 08-04-2005, 12:42 PM

If the Vatican has anything to say, surely it's only in regard to Andrew PB, the only Catholic in this odd situation. I can't see that any of the Protestants would really care.

And why would Camilla be silly enough to sneak around with her ex-husband (the one that she didn't seem too excited about when she was married to him)?

una · #30 08-04-2005, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iowabelle

Una, who was the footman? Not Burrell? Curious.

Laura

His name was Mark Smpson. He was assigned to her throughout her stay at Buckingham P before the wedding. He also said her loneliness at that time was her own doing as she cut herself off. He tells a funny story of how she grabbed him as he walked along a corridor at Sandringham, pulled him into a lavatory and locked the door, wanting to talk to him. "I used to agree with what she said so I could get away". Eventually he got into trouble after she asked him to go for a walk with her, and he tried to stay out of her way after that.

una · #31 08-04-2005, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idriel

Somewhat immature?
You tell Diana would spend hours talking to her footman. Well if she had a loving husband next to her and wasn't left on her own, I don't think that would be necessary.
Nobody (the RF, Charles, the Palace) even tried to help her.

I agree that Charles should have rearranged his commitments, especially the trip overseas, to spend more time with her before the wedding, but she had no need to be lonely. She seemed reluctant to socialize with people (except the staff), perhaps because of her low self esteem and bulimia. But lots of people tried to help her, and she was encouraged to invite as many people as she liked to the palace.

auntie · #32 08-04-2005, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by una

Throughout her life, Diana was subject to irrational jealousies, Camilla was not the only one, do you know the story of Tiggy and the Christmas party?

Charles and Diana would have broken up anyway. They were hopelessly mismatched, and Diana would have found some other target for her jealousy. Her emotional problems would have made almost any marriage a short one.

Who is tiggy?

Emily · #33 08-04-2005, 07:22 PM

I agree, Una. I have read an enormous amount about this and think many of your points are right on. The whole situation was very sad.

Emily · #34 08-04-2005, 07:30 PM

I should also add that Junor has been known for making public the view of Charles and "his circle" including King Constantine, the Van Cutsems, the Palmer-Tomkinsons, etc. so if the book does have that slant it would not be surprising. I have not read it and don't have plans to at this point.

iowabelle · #35 08-04-2005, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auntie

Who is tiggy?

Tiggy Legge-Bourke. She's the lady who was close to the Royal Family (I think her mother was Princess Anne's lady-in-waiting) that Charles hired to help him out with the boys after the divorce but before Diana's death. She was kind of a big sister to them, more than a nanny. (Tiggy was there more often after Diana died.)

But Diana was jealous because it looked like Tiggy was trying to be the boy's mother. And Diana thought that Tiggy was having an affair with Charles and accused Tiggy at this Christmas party of aborting Charles' baby.

Tiggy is married now and has started her own family, but she still seems to be close to Charles and the boys.

Tiggy is the one who caught flack for letting Harry rapell down a cliff without a helmet.

tiaraprin · #36 08-10-2005, 05:04 AM

I am reading the book at and the end of the chapter when she speaks about Robert Fellowes, who did not support Charles in keeping Camilla and that it was causing problems, she actually agreed--this coming from a woman who always supported Charles!! Let's see if she slants back to Charles' direction!!

Incas · #37 08-12-2005, 07:40 PM

I have read Burrell's book. While much of it was almost pro-Diana, the episodes about how often and lengthy Diana would call on him were unreal. When he was on family vacation, which was scheduled around her conveniece, he would be on the phone with her for hours everyday. Even when his wife, Maria, got mad, she still would call Burrell at all hours to have a shoulder to cry on. It wasn't like Diana didn't know Burrell was married and had a young family, she didn't care.

Alicky · #38 08-12-2005, 11:12 PM

I agree, that book, although meant to be pro-Diana, unintentionally revealed alot about her emotional and behavioral patterns. From reading that book, I lso think he unintentionally revealed how obsessed he was with her lol!

tiaraprin · #39 08-12-2005, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alicky

I agree, that book, although meant to be pro-Diana, unintentionally revealed alot about her emotional and behavioral patterns. From reading that book, I lso think he unintentionally revealed how obsessed he was with her lol!

Obsessed? That is an understatement about Paul Burrell. He ignored his own wife for Diana, and I don't mean that he was romantically in love with Diana. I believe Burrell is actually "not attracted to women" (My personal opinion). I think Burrell wanted to know everything that was going on with Diana and be her friend to boost his ego as being "the Princess' rock." In all actuality, he was a snake in the grass.