The Duke and Duchess of Windsor

[BeatrixFan]

Well, the Queen did visit him in Paris before his death and even though he was in extreme pain, he insisted on being dressed in a suit and on sitting by the bed. He bowed to the Queen who told him that he didn't need to and he apparantly said, "You are my Queen as well as my dear Lillibet". Very touching indeed.

[Duchess]

yes she did visit him but it seems it was too little too late. so sad that this family is so set in it's ways and finds it so hard to say "i was wrong" or "i'm sorry". from what i've read, and i admit that there's sides to every story, he could have been very useful especially during the war years.

[HRH Kerry]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

Well, the Queen did visit him in Paris before his death and even though he was in extreme pain, he insisted on being dressed in a suit and on sitting by the bed. He bowed to the Queen who told him that he didn't need to and he apparantly said, "You are my Queen as well as my dear Lillibet". Very touching indeed.

That is just too touching! I can actually picture him doing that in my head.

[MARG]

Originally Posted by Duchess

he could have been very useful especially during the war years.

Declassified government papers reveal a very pro Hitler Duke and Duchess of Windsor. Probably naive, but a definite [political] liability to Britain during the war and an embarassment thereafter. Out of sight was out of mind, and those questions were never openly adressed during their lifetime.
Time has been seen as the great healer.

[sassie]

Originally Posted by MARG

Declassified government papers reveal a very pro Hitler Duke and Duchess of Windsor. Probably naive, but a definite [political] liability to Britain during the war and an embarassment thereafter. Out of sight was out of mind, and those questions were never openly adressed during their lifetime.
Time has been seen as the great healer.

True, but perhaps the Duke would have been less pro-Hitler if his brother had utilized him more on behalf of their country during the war years. The Duke could be incredibly naive, and it's certainly possible that he could have been swayed away from Hitler with some inluence from British ministers.

[sm1939]

Originally Posted by sassie

True, but perhaps the Duke would have been less pro-Hitler if his brother had utilized him more on behalf of their country during the war years. The Duke could be incredibly naive, and it's certainly possible that he could have been swayed away from Hitler with some inluence from British ministers.

even if he was naive about Hitler , she wasnt naive she new what she was doing !! He was a push over and she was far to pushy! I think they did the best thing kept them away .

[Duchess]

Originally Posted by sm1939

even if he was naive about Hitler , she wasnt naive she new what she was doing !! He was a push over and she was far to pushy! I think they did the best thing kept them away .

see this is what i mean...while some people say that she was pushy and overbearing, this book says she wasn't like that. i guess it depends on who wrote what as to what you choose to believe.

[sassie]

Originally Posted by Duchess

see this is what i mean...while some people say that she was pushy and overbearing, this book says she wasn't like that. i guess it depends on who wrote what as to what you choose to believe.

I have never read, in the biographies about her, that Wallis was pushy. Disciplined and confident, yes, but dignified as opposed to pushy and overbearing. In fact, it has been widely written that the structure of their life together was more in accordance with HIS wishes than hers. During the abdication crisis, it was the Duke who determined the path he took, not Wallis. So, I agree, the 'pushy' label is confusing, and I can't help but wonder if the people who knew the Duchess and used that label to describe her didn't have a personal axe to grind.

[Elspeth]

Originally Posted by MARG

Declassified government papers reveal a very pro Hitler Duke and Duchess of Windsor. Probably naive, but a definite [political] liability to Britain during the war and an embarassment thereafter. Out of sight was out of mind, and those questions were never openly adressed during their lifetime.
Time has been seen as the great healer.

Being pro-Hitler wasn't that uncommon among the British upper class, especially since the alternative was perceived to be Communism, which was pledged to destroy the class system. I think this was somewhat exaggerated in the attempt to make the Duke and Duchess look bad. The other thing is that if the royal family could have somehow come to an accommodation with the Duke and Duchess instead of pushing them out into the cold, they wouldn't have been looking round for someone else to treat them as they wished to be treated.

The way the King and Queen treated the Duke and Duchess had some parallels with the way Queen Victoria treated the Prince of Wales: make sure they're unable to do anything useful and then blame them for being useless.

[Duchess]

so i finally finished the book. it ended on such a sad note with the death of the Duchess...alone. i agree with the author that this was the love story of the century.

[Prim]

Does anyone else think it's fantastic that Wallis opted not to curtsey to the Queen Mother? I just love that.

[Madame Royale]

You know Prim, I aswell have always been glade that Wallis stood her ground and never curtsied to Elizabeth, especially in public that one time (something to do with Queen Mary - anniversary of her death or something ?).

[BeatrixFan]

I like gutsy women and Wallis was definately gutsy. Some of her comments are pure acid drops.

[Prim]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

You know Prim, I aswell have always been glade that Wallis stood her ground and never curtsied to Elizabeth, especially in public that one time (something to do with Queen Mary - anniversary of her death or something ?).

That's right, it was in 1967, an unveiling of a memorial for Queen Mary and it was there that Queen Elizabeth kissed David kindly but chose not to shake hands with Wallis. :dry:

[MARG]

Originally Posted by Prim

Does anyone else think it's fantastic that Wallis opted not to curtsey to the Queen Mother? I just love that.

No actually. Its like being in the military. You pay compliments to the officer's commision, not the officer. Anything less is just plain rude. Not gutsy, not fantastic, just ill mannered, rude, ignorant and graceless.
You don't have to like someone to respect who they are, in fact it takes a person of grace to rise above personal animous. Wallis never understood anything about the BRF and its place, which is perhaps understandable, however, she never tried to understand.
In a lot of ways Wallis was a woman ahead of her time. Admirable even. However, she never would accept that she and her history were unacceptable and showed her contempt for the Queen Mother especially, in a comtemptible way. Two wrongs are never going to make one right.

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by MARG

You don't have to like someone to respect who they are

Very true And I agree that two wrongs don't make a right.

Yet on the other hand, the Queen Mother didn't have to like Wallis to respect who she was. No, instead she thought to play a figure of contempt who would have no doubt been much pleased and all too happy to shun Wallis, and why (apart from an abdication and lesser trifles compared )? Because she was 'obliged' to abuse her influential authority to make the woman feel unwelcome and unimportant and that to me exhibited a side of Elizabeth which really wasn't admirable or pretty (of course I still adored the Queen Mum. I have no personal reason not to).

But, even Queen's can lack grace it would seem.

[michelleq]

I still feel that the best choice was made; Edward was a weak man and would had been a weaker king. Wallis would had been a horrible queen. But I do feel that the Queen Mother should had been kinder because she owed her "Queenship" to Wallis. I agree, both should had acted with better manners towards each other.

[BeatrixFan]

Well, I think that the Queen Mother was wrong to treat Wallis the way she did and I'm glad that in later years she was a little kinder. Not even saying hello and kissing her husband in front of her must have been a real slap in the face to Wallis and so I can understand her refusing to curtsey. The Queen Mother had got her way over the HRH so she should have just accepted Wallis. As Madame Royale said though, I still adored the Queen Mum who in my eyes could do no wrong and was a Grandmother to the nation.

[qui mal y pense]

You are forgetting that the Queen Mum never wanted to be queen. The Yorks had an idyllic family life and had to give that up. The Queen never forgave Wallis because she felt that the pressure of being King is what killed her husband! She became widowed at a very young age.

[BeatrixFan]

I haven't forgotten it but I do think that's got a certain mythical substance to it. I know thats what is said but personally I find that hard to believe.