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  #81  
Old 06-30-2017, 01:27 PM
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The more I read about this book, the more I know that it has gone onto my "must read" list but knowing me, it'll be a while before I purchase it. The spirit is willing but the pocketbook is cheap. I find it an extravagance if I pay over $4 (USD) for a book.

Even the worse of biographers cannot, in all honesty, state what the effects of certain events in a life made them think or state what the cast of characters felt unless they have a source to go by. With this book, we'll get points of view from the family and friends of Camilla's that Penny Junor has talked with to get information. A biographer may be able to state "X was heartbroken" because the person interviewed received a letter from X at the time. It would discredit the whole work should a biographer state "X's children have carried scars from this merry-go-round of bed hopping" without having a credible source or even talking to the children herself. I've read enough biographies by Junor to know that she doesn't treat the people she writes about this way.

To be honest, what really is a hallmark for me with a biography is the list of sources. If a book contains a lot of "a source close to the palace" or "a person high up in the royal court" or "a close friend", it is not a statement to be taken as gospel. Some people may very well want to remain anonymous but when anonymous sources are the gist of the quotes, it brings the entire biography into question for me.

Curryong, as you're reading the book right now, what is your take on the sources contained in the book?
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  #82  
Old 06-30-2017, 01:30 PM
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Osipi it's not even available for us in the US (amazon) until March of 2018 according to their website....I've got it on my wish list.


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  #83  
Old 06-30-2017, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Osipi it's not even available for us in the US (amazon) until March of 2018 according to their website....I've got it on my wish list.


LaRae
Sigh... I know. That means even after the release date I'll be waiting even longer for it. I was extravagant though in the last couple of days. I ordered the new Bedell Smith biography of Charles and paid $10 with extra shipping and handling. Usually the books I buy are around $4 with free shipping.
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  #84  
Old 06-30-2017, 02:16 PM
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Osipi I have that one on my wish list too (Charles) waiting for the price drop <G>

I use my Kindle a lot nowdays, I have tons of real books (I donate boxes to libraries) and have decided to mostly buy everything on Kindle except for certain authors, I still buy the hardbacks for some.


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  #85  
Old 06-30-2017, 02:33 PM
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We need a bookaholic support group thread here somewhere methinks.
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  #86  
Old 06-30-2017, 02:53 PM
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HA...most definately...I refuse to even consider how much I've spend on books the last 30 years...


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  #87  
Old 06-30-2017, 09:00 PM
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Several posts discussing Diana's affairs have been removed. This is a thread about the new book on the Duchess of Cornwall - Diana's affairs have nothing to do with that topic.
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  #88  
Old 06-30-2017, 10:16 PM
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I've finished reading it now. One thing that does come through loud and clear is that this is a book about Camilla. Those who buy it thinking that Junor will immediately plunge into Charles and Camilla's adultery and that she will unhesitatingly take Charles and Camila's side might be surprised. (There are parts that I, as a Diana supporter do take objection to, however there are criticisms of Charles by Junor too, specifically involving emotional deafness to his young fiancee's insecurities.)

The first eight chapters don't even mention Diana. It begins with a visit Penny makes to Poundbery, the town made reality by Charles's dreams. Penny observes a visit to the town by the Queen and Prince Philip in which the royal couple maintain a non-committal response to all they've seen, save for one little gesture by Philip.

This feeds into Junor's narrative, maintained throughout the book, that Charles was left emotionally stunted by his father's bullying, his mother's detachment, to the point of weakness, of tremendous neediness, which could only be assuaged by Camilla's love and uncritical support. She says quite late in the book that Camilla is the stronger of the two in the relationship.

However, apart from Charles's introduction to Camilla and his early dating of her while Andrew was away, he doesn't loom large in the first eight chapters. Junor is very uncomplimentary about Andrew Parker-Bowles whom she describes at various times as cold, offhand, snobbish, cruel and a womaniser. He is the Debs Delight of the title of the second chapter, and perhaps the Stuffed Stoat (an in-joke reference to the title of Chapter 6.)

The reader really gets a feeling for where Camilla comes from in this book. Her parents and their backgrounds are described, (her paternal grandfather was much-married and her father didn't really have much to do with him.) Her mother's family, the Cubitts, had money. The story of Alice Keppel and her daughter Violet Trefusis, (Camilla's great-aunt) and her love for Vita Sackville West is re-told.

Camilla had an ideal childhood, and the special bond between herself and her father, siblings, her parents' very happy marriage, their sociability, the ponies Camilla was obsessed by and her sprawling childhood home are fondly described.
Junor emphasises that Camilla's great self-confidence arises from those happy, golden years.

Also quite interesting to read about is her early if patchy education at a country boarding school, rather eccentrically run. Junor remarks that her education there and later at a Kensington boarding school left her unambitious, just wanting an upper middleclass life in the country like her mother, with horses and dogs and children.

Camilla discovered boys in her mid-teens, but apart from saying that Camilla and her friends enjoyed drinks and parties Junor writes that they weren't really part of the Swinging Sixties. She draws a discreet veil over who these boyfriends were, and indeed throughout the book she often doesn't name sources.

It is only in Chapter nine, after Camilla has married the womanising Andrew and settled down at Bolehyde (a house again lovingly described, perhaps by Camilla herself) and has her children that Charles's and the Parker-Bowles lives start to really intermingle once more, and Camilla becomes increasingly restless and unhappy.

All in all, the first eight chapters or so contained some material that I found was new and interesting. Ditto for the last four chapters or so of the book in which Camilla's charities and interest in the arts is explored. So plenty there besides the inevitable triangle!
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  #89  
Old 06-30-2017, 10:25 PM
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@Curryong

Sounds good, I will need to reserve this at the library. Normally I avoid Junor's books but this sounds like a good quality piece of research and a long overdue addition to the literature on the subject. I wonder if Andrew Morton is still going to do his version?
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  #90  
Old 06-30-2017, 10:32 PM
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Thanks much for the synopsis of the book Curryong. I'm happy to hear that the book did, for the majority of it, focus solely on Camilla. It most definitely will be added to my library somewhere down the line. I was really hoping that the "triangle" wouldn't be the major draw of the book. That's been done to death.
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  #91  
Old 07-01-2017, 01:13 PM
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"She will never be loved universally. Some people find adultery unacceptable in any circumstances, while others are so loyal to Diana's memory that they will not entertain the possibility that she had any of the frailties which make us human.
Many people, however, are more forgiving and open-minded. They understand that Camilla came into Charles's broken marriage when he was in despair, and gave him something to live for again."

Penny Junor: Camilla the mistress who was the salvation | Daily Mail Online
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  #92  
Old 07-01-2017, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
"She will never be loved universally. Some people find adultery unacceptable in any circumstances, while others are so loyal to Diana's memory that they will not entertain the possibility that she had any of the frailties which make us human.
Many people, however, are more forgiving and open-minded. They understand that Camilla came into Charles's broken marriage when he was in despair, and gave him something to live for again."

Penny Junor: Camilla the mistress who was the salvation | Daily Mail Online
I love this sentence. It encapsulates in a nutshell something that is often overlooked when it comes to discussing this turbulent period in Charles' life.

When things are going down the tubes and it doesn't seem like there's any way out, its then that the most important asset in a person's life is a best friend.
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  #93  
Old 07-01-2017, 02:34 PM
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well no one is loved universally...
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  #94  
Old 07-01-2017, 02:56 PM
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Except maybe the Queen... even as we get ready for the 4th of July celebration (the 1776 version of Brexit) there's even some Americans who love the Queen!


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  #95  
Old 07-01-2017, 03:17 PM
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Growing up where I did in a place where both Canada Day and the 4th of July was celebrated in an International Freedom Festival, I've always been on the list as being one of HM, The Queen's staunch supporters even though I am an American.
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  #96  
Old 07-01-2017, 06:15 PM
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Oh dear, the short post where I wrote that I didn't bother to spend my time on this thread has been deleted (sorry to the mods). It's been a long time since that happened to me, but I'll try keep those feelings (about threads) to myself in the future.

The reason I'm back here is to respond to a post from Iluvbertie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Why is it ok for Morton to rehash his version of Diana's story and not allow Junor to put out Camilla's version of events?

All that is happening is the War of the Wales' Part 2 - with Charles now ranged against his sons. They have constantly thrown their father under the bus this year with their 'we got no help when Mummy died, we had to walk behind the coffin, we couldn't talk about her death' etc etc.

The Junor book is coming out now because Camilla's 70th birthday is coming up. Remember that Diana ensured that she was on the front page when Charles threw a party for Camilla's 50th birthday only a few weeks before she died so the anniversaries of her death and Camilla's milestone birthdays will come together.

This book is simply undoing all the hard work that Charles and Camilla have done over the past 20 years and the two who will be rejoicing most will be Diana's sons - they have one aim in life - to finish what they believe was Diana's aim - destroy Charles totally even if it means the end of the BRF. Harry's statement that 'no one wants to be King or Queen' is a clear shot across the bows at ending the monarchy and complete Diana's ambition as they see it.

These books have reignited the entire story and I am sure that the next polls will show a massive drop in support for Charles and Camilla and Diana's fans will rejoice again.
1. I don't agree.

2. Are you serious?

3. If this is true, then William and Harry must be very cynical and manipulative. And after what I can see, they are not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
"She will never be loved universally. Some people find adultery unacceptable in any circumstances, while others are so loyal to Diana's memory that they will not entertain the possibility that she had any of the frailties which make us human.
Many people, however, are more forgiving and open-minded. They understand that Camilla came into Charles's broken marriage when he was in despair, and gave him something to live for again."

Penny Junor: Camilla the mistress who was the salvation | Daily Mail Online
This has been written very quickly, so there are probably many writing-errors here.

She is still unliked by many, but everyone who meets her, yes, they like her.

Will she be popular? No.

Will she be beloved? No.

Will she be respected by a majority in the UK? Not sure, but I think she will be accepted.

Does she need to be all those thing stated above to be a good consort? No, she don't.

Is philip a good consort? Yes.

Do I or the UK majority like Philip? No.

Is he popular, beloved? No.

Is he respected by a majority?

When he was young? Yes. In the 80s/90s and 2000s? No.

Now? Maybe, but thats becaause he is old.

I know that this thread is for Camilla, but since the popularity of other royals has been discussed her (and I thinks it fits here), then let's go through the whole bunch of them:

Charles: Accepted, but still controversial.

Around 70% approval ratings and 60% thinks he's going to be a good king? Not bad for a man who has received so much criticism. And he is actually wery good at conecting with people - have you seen him on a walkabouts.

Is he going to be popular/beloved and admirred like his mother? No way, but I think/hope that he vill be respected.

William: 2010-2013 - Very popular, more than Diana and even more than what Harry is now - why? Because he wasn't criticized by the press.

Now - Criticized, but popular/liked with approval ratings at 75 to 80%.

When he is monarch: Likely to be quite popular, but not beloved as HM.

Kate: 2010-2013 - Very popular - why? Because she was almost not criticized by the press.

Now - Criticized, but still popular/liked by a UK majority.

Harry: Very popular (but not beloved) - why? Charismatic and good with people, but mostly because he has hardly been criticized in recent years.

Diana: Very popular in the 80's and right after the separation in 1992, but not beloved (Camilla had also been that if she had been the one to marry him at that time.)

Before she died? Controversial.

Now? Adored by her fans, not liked by people who is the opposite of her fans and the others (the majority) don't care.

The Queen Mother: Very popular and admirrred for the things she did during the war and her commitment to duty, but I wont call her beloved (I'm personally not a big fan of her)

Now? People know who she was, but (as with Diana) the majority don't care much about her. The same thing that happens to everyone who have been dead for awhile (with exception of historical persons as heads of states or heads of governments).

HM, The Queen: She is (as commentators/experts says) the most beloved, popular, iconic, famous and most successful head of state (many would say person) in the world.

Almost everyone I know in the UK likes her and almost all the comments on The Royal Family, the British Monarchist League and the British Monarchist Society & Foundation facebook pages are positive.

Even many of the ignorant and evil minded thugs in the DF comment section (the best rated comments) and on twitter likes her.

Her Ipsos MORI approval ratings were above 70% from 1992 to 2000 (with the exception of 66% in 1998), over 80% from 2002 to 2016 (sometimes 90%) just 5% dissatisfied in 2016, a YouGov approval rating in 2012 showed 86%.

And let's go through the YouGov most admired person in the UK poll:

2014 - The 30 most admired persons in the UK:
1: The Queen with 18,74%
9: William with 2,6%
19: Kate with 0,80%
Harry was not even included in the poll.

2015 - The 15 most admired Women in the UK:
1: The Queen with 17%
5: Kate with 5,2%

2015 - The 15 most admired Men in the UK:
5: William with 6,5%
8: Harry with 5,9%

2016 - The 30 most admired Women in the UK:
1: The Queen with 19,5%
7: Kate with 3,6%

2016 - The 30 most admired Men in the UK:
4: Harry with 6,4%
6: William with 5,6%

The Queen was also polled the most admirred woman in Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Germany in the 2016 poll.

The unserious/stupid favourite royal polls are meaningless, but let us go through them:

The Queen came first (over both the Queen Mother and Diana) in almost all of the few polls that were made in the 80/90s.

From 2002 to 2010, the Queen came first in almost all of the few polls that were made.

The Queen has (since 2011) shared the first place with William, Kate and Harry. But as you see in polls when you ask, who is the most popular/admired person in the UK, then she beats all of them.

I'm not a person who brags unconditionally of people, but when it comes to this lady, then I don't keep anything back - as you can read in this I long post that I wrote about her: Elective or Hereditary Monarchy?

And as David Walliams said it, she is the heart and soul of UK (and as others have said) to the rest of the world too.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I simply can't imagine a world without Elizabeth II, our beloved history-making monarch with her record breaking reign.
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  #97  
Old 07-02-2017, 12:21 PM
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The Duchess: The Untold Story by Penny Junor – digested read

‘After leaving school with one O-level in kennel hygiene, Camilla was a much sought-after debutante’


https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...-parker-bowles
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  #98  
Old 07-02-2017, 02:44 PM
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Satire. Pretty funny.
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Old 07-02-2017, 03:07 PM
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Something has been nagging be about this recent book and I think I've finally nailed it down. Its the title.

From what I've read on what the book includes so far, the title may actually be misleading to the general public. When seeing the words "Camilla" and "The Untold Story", I think most people would instantly assume that the "untold story" would be the telling of Camilla's side to things in the War of the Wales. This doesn't seem to be so as, from what I gather, most of the book is a biography of her life with the "war" being only a part of it.

Maybe that book should have been just titled The Duchess of Cornwall and left at that?
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  #100  
Old 07-02-2017, 03:38 PM
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They are just using that misleading/stupid title to sell the book.
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