"The Duchess: The Untold Story" by Penny Junor (2017) [Duchess of Cornwall]

[Osipi]

Ms Junor is a journalist. I happen to regard all journalists as people with lower social responsibility. It would be impossible to determine if the BRF PR team gives any recommendations to supine mass media. That is all.

That is your opinion which is a valid one.

It does not, however, make it so. I don't like eating fish and I regard seafood as something vulgar to avoid and that's also valid but it doesn't by any means mean that fish is unhealthy and not to be liked by anyone.

In your previous post you stated "It is the usual clumsy PR from the British royals." Which is it? Impossible to determine if BRF PR team gives any recommendations or is it a fact that they do?

Just curious here as you seem to be contradicting yourself.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Ms Junor is a journalist. I happen to regard all journalists as people with lower social responsibility. It would be impossible to determine if the BRF PR team gives any recommendations to supine mass media. That is all.

If you don't think or know if the BRF was involved in this book, then what did your previous post mean? It is confusing.

"It is the usual clumsy attempt to gauge The Duchess' of Cornwall popularity among subjects. It is unclear what the Clarence House tries to achieve."

 

[Al_bina]

That is your opinion which is a valid one.

It does not, however, make it so. I don't like eating fish and I regard seafood as something vulgar to avoid and that's also valid but it doesn't by any means mean that fish is unhealthy and not to be liked by anyone.

In your previous post you stated "It is the usual clumsy PR from the British royals." Which is it? Impossible to determine if BRF PR team gives any recommendations or is it a fact that they do?

Just curious here as you seem to be contradicting yourself.

I am not contradicting myself. I view the book as a usual clumsy PR, and you do not view it this way. That is why "It would be impossible to determine if the BRF PR team gives any recommendations to supine mass media".

 

[Osipi]

I took it that one statement stated that it was a PR attempt with the book. The other statement says its impossible to determine if PR teams collaborate with mass media. Those are contradictory statements. Either the PR did or they didn't. Which is it?

Junor does not need PR teams to feed her anything. It has been reported (and I do believe it) that her sources come from Camilla's family and friends that were willing to sit down with her. The BRF's PR teams have enough on their hands with the press flow from the royals themselves and does not hold any kind of power over things that any other person would write.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

When something sells, any editor will publish things. Whether close to the truth, whether lied from A to Z. They do what they do. They need no any cooperation from Clarence House. To me Camilla seems the type who is always on her qui-vive (very careful) for media. Prince Charles, as revealed in published private correspondence with Mrs Reagan, seems to loathe it all, the uncountable amount of publications. So the best bet is that Ms Junor's editor smells money and just add another publication to the paper-mountain and that Clarence House just grinds teeth and is determined to ignore it all.

 

[Denville]

It very well may be that Penny Junor is a huge Charles supporter but I'm tending to believe that her editors and her publishers would much rather look at the timing of the release in relationship to raking in the green dollars.

Although Junor has quite a bit of say over the material in her books, she also has to work with other people that are primarily focused on the sales of the book moreso than its contents.

Its a primary reason, for example, why many producers and directors aim to release their movies around Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays where they would be more apt to draw in larger crowds buying tickets.

As far as I recall this books been in the pipeline for a few years.. and probably the release date is to do with economics rather than Pen Junors decision. but I think that while she is a fan, of Chas and Camilla she's not always the smartest at making them look good.

 

[Osipi]

For all we know, Junor could be under contract with her publishing house to push out a certain amount of books in a certain period of time. We just don't know the facts behind the release of the book. We just know when.

 

[Leopoldine]

Charles' and (now) Camilla's court has been know to be quite activist in promoting their principals, at times to the detriment of other family members. Mark Bolland went at his job as if gaining the public's good will for the PoW was a zero-sum game and someone else in the family would have to be stepped on. I'm sure the book and other recent PoW/Camilla revelations is only the public beginning of a long-planned Clarence House effort to blunt the impact of the late August anniversary and temper it with carefully chosen anecdotal evidence of their principals' caring and sensitive natures.

When you look at the situation in that light, the timing of Harry's recently published quotes is almost comical. He's in the game too. He's competing with his father's court and their machinations for the public's attention.

Remember on May 5, when Sir Christopher Geidt was announcing Philip's retirement and he indicated that it was time for all of the royal households to pull together and have a more strategic and unified approach going forward and to set aside rivalries? He must have see all of this comin' down the pike.

 

[Denville]

For all we know, Junor could be under contract with her publishing house to push out a certain amount of books in a certain period of time. We just don't know the facts behind the release of the book. We just know when.

well id' say its a no brainer that publishers will put it out when they feel the best sales are likely to happen. I can't see that the RF/Camilla have anything to do with that. and possibly the newspaper is perhaps trying to stir up a bit of controversy by serialising it when there IS goig to be press attention on Di's memory..

Camilla was deeply in love with Andrew Parker Bowles at the time, in spite of his wandering eye. According to Penny Junor, who apparently knows all about it, she was determined to marry him. She also had a 'past' (ex lovers/ boyfriends) which put her in the 'unsuitable' category.

well assuming that Junor has talked to some of Camilla's friends, I assume she does know something. I skimmed a bit and it seems as If yes, Camilla was in love with Andrew and determined to marry him.. Probalby the "Loving the Bad Boy" syndrome.. and that she believed she could win his love and even if he wasn't 100% faithful, he would love her best and tone down his womanising.
ANd I think that when she was married to him, the womanising didn't stop, and she found it harder to cope with than she had expected.

 

[Madame Verseau]

Why resurrect all that turmoil that was the War of the Wales? The Penney Junor article does not make Charles sympathetic, calling Andrew Parker Bowles a cheating jerk does not help either. They're justifying their cheating by dragging their former spouses, not thinking how this could be affecting their adult children. William, Harry and Camilla's kids may have made their peace with the situation, but the bio is reopening old wounds and risking public blowback. All parties involved, Diana too, were in the wrong. Just own what you did and keep it moving.

 

[Dman]

A total shame Penny decided to come out with this crapola this year. I guess she decided this year was the best time to do it. God bless it all though.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Why is it ok for Morton to rehash his version of Diana's story and not allow Junor to put out Camilla's version of events?

All that is happening is the War of the Wales' Part 2 - with Charles now ranged against his sons. They have constantly thrown their father under the bus this year with their 'we got no help when Mummy died, we had to walk behind the coffin, we couldn't talk about her death' etc etc.

The Junor book is coming out now because Camilla's 70th birthday is coming up. Remember that Diana ensured that she was on the front page when Charles threw a party for Camilla's 50th birthday only a few weeks before she died so the anniversaries of her death and Camilla's milestone birthdays will come together.

This book is simply undoing all the hard work that Charles and Camilla have done over the past 20 years and the two who will be rejoicing most will be Diana's sons - they have one aim in life - to finish what they believe was Diana's aim - destroy Charles totally even if it means the end of the BRF. Harry's statement that 'no one wants to be King or Queen' is a clear shot across the bows at ending the monarchy and complete Diana's ambition as they see it.

These books have reignited the entire story and I am sure that the next polls will show a massive drop in support for Charles and Camilla and Diana's fans will rejoice again.

 

[M. Payton]

I just read this thread and have read other sites on this subject so I just have a few questions here..

Why doesn't any one think that this Penny Junor is now writing a book just to make money? Does she need another 15 minutes of fame?

After all the timing is perfect to rehash this entire time period and this books make no one look good.

I think and this is just MO...is the ghost of Diana haunting Penny Junor perhaps? And why? Diana is gone, she died that is a Fact.....and with all the books and news articles, forums discussions I seriously doubt there is anything left to be told....

Everyone person involved from Charles, Diana, Camilla and friends all made horrible mistakes and unfortunately one past on through a horrible accident....nobody was perfect and all suffered even HM, so can people realize that and carry on.

The most important ones what are going to suffer through this is the boys, William and Harry again.

Think that PJ will write the same book next year and the year after with the same story to fill those coffers of hers?

 

[Nico]

Interesting all the fuss about this book : A PR weapon from Clarence house or a long waited and unbiaised second version of the war of the Wales ?
I'm quite amused about the double standard, if not the hypocrisy, expressed by some judging this book a lie, a distorsion of the truth and of course a clear attempt to tarnish the memory of the late Princess of Wales.
Let's say the timing is unfortunate (and of course chosen for marketing reasons) , but we can argue that the Morton's book (also republished with much fanfare btw) was also , back in 1992 and still now, a lie, a distorsion of the truth and a clear attempt to tarnish the reputation of the Prince of Wales.
But still one is seen as a mere propaganda for the futur royal couple, and the other some kind of a feminine bible about the suffering of a royal victim.
After reading some chapters of mrs Junor's work, i've changed my mind and found it highly interesting, providing a good counterpoint to the popupar Morton's book (and the Panorama interview).
We have now, at last, the two versions of the story, like two faces of the same coin.

 

[Osipi]

Beautifully stated, Nico, and so true.

I also found the serialization of the book to be an interesting one. Of course, I had to read it with a grain of salt knowing that the parts chosen to be serialized by the Fail fell under the jurisdiction of one reporter called Richard Kay. Kay was very instrumental in Diana's publicity when she was alive and it would only be natural that his slant on the entire period back then would be very pro Diana.

It would have been even more discrediting to Junor's work on Camilla's life should she have glossed over or even bypassed the period of Camilla's life where she was intrinsically linked to the period during Charles and Diana's marriage. A good biographer looks at all aspects of a person's life and includes the good, the bad and the ugly as it happened from an objective point of view.

 

[Denville]

Interesting all the fuss about this book : A PR weapon from Clarence house or a long waited and unbiaised second version of the war of the Wales ?
I'm quite amused about the double standard, if not the hypocrisy, expressed by some judging this book a lie, a distorsion of the truth and of course a clear attempt to tarnish the memory of the late Princess of Wales.
Let's say the timing is unfortunate (and of course chosen for marketing reasons) , but we can argue that the Morton's book (also republished with much fanfare btw) was also , back in 1992 and still now, a lie, a distorsion of the truth and a clear attempt to tarnish the reputation of the Prince of Wales.
of We have now, at last, the two versions of the story, like two faces of the same coin.

well I'm not a great fan of Junor, I do think she's overly biased towards Charles and against Diana. but there aren't many bios of Camilla. And I understood that this is a NEW Book not a re issue like Morton?
and yes of course it is for money, essentially. she may like Charles and Cam but she's writing these books for money and they are published at a certain time, coming up to Cam's birthday, for a reason.. to attract sales.
So I might read it...whereas I don't want to raed any more of Morton's stale stuff about Diana.. He took advantage of her unhappiness, he's been living off it ever since and I don't believe a lot of what was said in DHTS. Perhap this book by Junor will be more accurate...

 

[Osipi]

well I'm not a great fan of Junor, I do think she's overly biased towards Charles and against Diana. but there aren't many bios of Camilla. And I understood that this is a NEW Book not a re issue like Morton?
and yes of course it is for money, essentially. she may like Charles and Cam but she's writing these books for money and they are published at a certain time, coming up to Cam's birthday, for a reason.. to attract sales.
So I might read it...whereas I don't want to raed any more of Morton's stale stuff about Diana.. He took advantage of her unhappiness, he's been living off it ever since and I don't believe a lot of what was said in DHTS. Perhap this book by Junor will be more accurate...

We're in agreement on the Morton book. Once I've read the first Morton book, I got a pretty clear idea of what was in the book. To buy and reread the "new and improved" version would just be feeding into the reasons for it being released again and abridged by Morton in certain areas to garner more green dollars for himself and to keep the memory of what was alive and well and kicking and the scandal that it was back then. I've read several (some may say too many) biographies on Diana and each one has added insight into the person she was. Morton, I guess, remains at the top of the heap for many readers because actually, its the closest thing we can get to an actual autobiography of Diana because of her involvement with the book.

However, I am very much interested in reading Junor's Camilla biography. I like reading different biographies on the same person written by different authors as they put their own slant on things sometimes even while being objective, present new information and gives a wider view of the person being written about. Perhaps this is the beginning of a long list of Camilla biographies. I don't know but I'm interested.

 

[Leopoldine]

oh dear the pro camilla spin in full swing, is this really necessary? the less people hear about the war of the waleses again the better.
i thought that camilla had already neutralized her position with people, she'll never be loved but doesnt need to. i feel this kind of coverage will make the public mood into negativity again.
this may be a love story but it goes along with a lot of hurt and betrayal.

I totally agree.

I think Charles and Camilla and their camp should stop all of this self-promoting activity and just let this anniversary happen without fighting it.

 

[Curryong]

I've bought 'The Duchess' book on my Kindle. It was released in Australia a few hours ago. It's the middle of the night here but I've already read a couple of chapters. Have to absorb it and read some more in the morning!

It's already causing all the negativity to well up once more. I'm on the Internet and blogs/forums quite a bit. The War of the Wales's has been fought since the serialisation has been served up in the DM and is continuing, as we write.

 

[Pranter]

No matter what folks are always going to hold C&C accountable for some of Diana's pain because of how things went on. Charles more than Camilla. They might understand the why's/how's of how these things happen...but doesn't mean they will exonerate them/him.

Best thing they could do is keep a low profile about it and just live their life. No need for rebuttals or more explaining. Just let it go.


LaRae

 

[Nico]

I totally agree.

I think Charles and Camilla and their camp should stop all of this self-promoting activity and just let this anniversary happen without fighting it.

See !
Two books, two stories and of course two camps.
I think it's fair enough to have, at last, a late response to some outrageous claims made some 25 years ago.
If the timing is unfortunate, it's maybe because the same claims were republished, again, without any critical notice, of course to make money on the back of this sad anniversary.
I can't blame the other "camp" (if such camp exists) to say enough is enough and to try to say "you know what ? We have a different version of these events". The publishing world being what it is, of course they're making money on the back of this anniversary too.
Let's face it , the version of the events in this book is totally unbearable for some part of the public. It's unbearable now, it will be unbearable tomorrow. At least the story is out , for better or worse.

 

[Osipi]

I totally agree.

I think Charles and Camilla and their camp should stop all of this self-promoting activity and just let this anniversary happen without fighting it.

Personally, I don't believe there are any "camps" involved with this book. Junor states that her information comes from talking with family and friends of Camilla. No where is it mentioned that this book is an authorized biography of The Duchess of Cornwall which would be a stamp of approval from the Charles and Camilla "camp" whereas the Dimbleby biography of Charles was authorized by the Prince of Wales himself.

Just putting a realistic slant on this.

BTW: these conversation threads are hazardous to my bank account. In the process of looking for some information on biographies, I ended up purchasing Junor's book "Charles: Victim or Villian" and went a step further and purchased Sally Bedell Smith's new Charles biography. The consoling factor is that I can feed my addiction with a cheap supplier.

 

[Pranter]

I've bought 'The Duchess' book on my Kindle. It was released in Australia a few hours ago. It's the middle of the night here but I've already read a couple of chapters. Have to absorb it and read some more in the morning!

It's already causing all the negativity to well up once more. I'm on the Internet and blogs/forums quite a bit. The War of the Wales's has been fought since the serialisation has been served up in the DM and is continuing, as we write.

Hmmmm Amazon says not to be released till 2018..?

https://www.amazon.com/Duchess-Unto..._0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1498674138&sr=1-1-fkmr1



LaRae

 

[Denville]

I totally agree.

I think Charles and Camilla and their camp should stop all of this self-promoting activity and just let this anniversary happen without fighting it.

Who says they are fighting it? its not an authorised biography, it is a book written by Junor and it has used Cam's friends etc as sources. Which is was bound to do, if its to be in any way accurate or well sourced. I think it is a bit hard to say that Charles and Camilla can't have biographies written because it comes across as "explaining their POV" or attacking Diana.
The truth is problaby somewhere In the middle between the books written that Favour Diana and those that favour Charles or Camilla. but one needs to read both sides.

. I've read several (some may say too many) biographies on Diana and each one has added insight into the person she was. Morton, I guess, remains at the top of the heap for many readers because actually, its the closest thing we can get to an actual autobiography of Diana because of her involvement with the book.

.

But really Diana wasn't in a good frame of mind, when she gave Morton the info for htat book.. so I think it is not really fair to her, to see it as a real source about her life.

 

[Osipi]

But really Diana wasn't in a good frame of mind, when she gave Morton the info for htat book.. so I think it is not really fair to her, to see it as a real source about her life.

To me, its a real source into the knowing about Diana because it does reflect her state of mind at the time because of her involvement with the book albeit not confirmed at the time.

Your point is valid for those that would read the Morton book only and form their opinion from that book alone. We're not like that though are we?

BTW: I did get and read the Barbara Cartland story that was reputed to be Diana's favorite one. The book itself has 3 books in 1 and her favorite was one of them. I've not read the other two as actually, her favorite one was kind of boring for me to read. Perhaps it would have been different if I had read it as a teenager.

 

[Curryong]

Hmmmm Amazon says not to be released till 2018..?

https://www.amazon.com/Duchess-Unto..._0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1498674138&sr=1-1-fkmr1



LaRae

Well, I'm certainly not lying!

I pre-ordered the book a couple of days ago and It came in my Kindle shortly after midnight today, the 29th June 2017, which is when it was set for release.

Chapter 1 The Problem. (In which Penny Junor goes to Poundbery to see the Queen and Prince Philip and Charles and Camilla at 'Charles's town' and talks about his parents' consistent lack of praise for their son.)

Chapter 2 Debs' Delight. Talks about Camilla meeting Andrew PB.

Chapter 3 Medals not Money. is about Camilla's father's family background.

Chapter 4 History. I haven't read it yet.

Chapter 1 begins 'Thick early morning fog... as Penny makes her way to the town Charles created and she writes about its beginning.

 

[Denville]

To

Your point is valid for those that would read the Morton book only and form their opinion from that book alone. We're not like that though are we?

a teenager.

It confirms her state of mind, but IMO its pretty shaky on the facts about her marriage. If you do know a bit more, you can see that she was REALLY a bit "crazy" at the time.. with the whole "throwing herself downstairs" story etc.
I feel uncomfortable because I feel that the book really is a giant ret-con and that Di was fibbing or misremembering wildly. If she was lying deliberately she was well lying.. if she was not remembering too well, she was clearly not in a good place mentally.

 

[Osipi]

It confirms her state of mind, but IMO its pretty shaky on the facts about her marriage. If you do know a bit more, you can see that she was REALLY a bit "crazy" at the time.. with the whole "throwing herself downstairs" story etc.
I feel uncomfortable because I feel that the book really is a giant ret-con and that Di was fibbing or misremembering wildly. If she was lying deliberately she was well lying.. if she was not remembering too well, she was clearly not in a good place mentally.

I can personally attest to the fact that it most likely presented her state of mind at the time just as my attitude and state of mind going through a pretty acrimonious divorce (actually around the time of Charles and Diana's troubles) could be very well likened to Diana's. When you're going through something like that, the spouse is very much "the bad guy" and seeing the positives in that person is almost next to impossible because of the situation. One doesn't see things objectively but very, very much subjectively and that was portrayed in the first Morton book.

If I was to have Morton write a book about my marriage when it was all going south very fast towards the flames, I don't think my story would have been much different from Diana's. I'd be out for blood and painting my ex in the most dastardly ways I could think of.

 

[Curryong]

Ditto, Osipi, ditto. Breakups and divorces are rarely pleasant.

 

[Denville]

but - well really, I'm not sayng Charles was innocent.. clearly he had faults and was to blame for the end of the marriage.. but would you, really go public with a lot of stuff about your ex that wasn't really true? esp if he was a public figure and this stuff would harm his reputation? of course there are times in any marriage even if it does't come to divorce, that there are "bad times" and we see our partners through angry lenses.. but we dont usually publicise it.