The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Royal Highlights > Royal Library

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #281  
Old 07-23-2007, 12:59 AM
LOSSEAN's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NASINU, Fiji
Posts: 260
I would agree with you Anbrida and of course Polly's excellent analysis quoted above in post #274 by Duchess. Diana was a phenomenon - the manisfestation of what I felt in fairytales. And perhaps that is the only way to describe her: as you said 'magical'.

When a child, I was an avid follower of the Royal Family and dutifully maintained scrap books. The devotion to duty of Her Majesty, the sacrifice of HM the Queen Mother when she became Queen Consort and during WWII made a deep impression on me. Princess Alexandra and Princess Anne fitted into that mold.

I detested celebrities because I felt they did not do anything for their fellow-men but lived a life of leisure from the spoils of exploiting their fellow men. But we were attracted by the glamour.

Jacqueline Kennedy and Princess Grace of Monaco were two first ladies with a glamorous fashion sense. I was resigned to the fact that the Royal ladies are wearing the clothes that befits their status. Sometimes, in the 70s they appeared overloaded with jewels but I reasoned, it was the demands of the positions they hold.

Then there was Mother Teresa whose life of servanthood to the disadvantaged was an inspiration.

But Diana combined the dutiful, the glamorous, the compassionate into one neat little package and yes! it was magical. The fairytale fell apart but I am glad it happenned.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #282  
Old 07-23-2007, 08:17 PM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSSEAN View Post
But Diana combined the dutiful, the glamorous, the compassionate into one neat little package and yes! it was magical. The fairytale fell apart but I am glad it happenned.
So it seemed like the image of Diana had a little something for everybody - she was not just a princess, not just a humanitarian, not just a humanitarian, a beautiful glamourous figure, not just a glamourous figure, a humanitarian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anbrida
But if I were asked why I always thought of her, I couldn’t come out even one word. And I’ve already given up the effort to explain why. To me she was just simply “magical”. If you ask me to use one word to depict Diana, or the Diana phenomenon, I would choose “magical”. However, this world become so rational that people didn’t believe “magic” any more.
I think Diana's magic was her message that it was OK to use your heart rather than your head.

I'm interested to see what Tina Brown makes of all this in her book.
__________________

__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
Reply With Quote
  #283  
Old 07-24-2007, 05:49 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
From the excerpt I read it seemed that Tina Brown was chronicling Diana's move from the royal society to a more celebrity-driven society. Since I still believe that Tina is an expert in this celebrity culture, I think she may be more qualified to talk about Diana's move to celebritydom and her interactions with that set rather than about Diana's relationship with the Royal Family since as you say, it is a different culture.

I know that Diana was aristocratic in blood but in many ways she did not seem to act very aristocratic. It was said of Diana once that while she had the common touch and could easily relate to underprivileged people and people in pain, she had a hard time relating to people of her own social class. skydragon, I don't think you would say Diana was a typical example of anstocratic English girl, would you?
.... think because Diana didn't seem to fit within her class very comfortably and did fit into the celebrity culture more comfortably than the aristocratic class, that Tina Brown could understand Diana and what motivated her and probably moreso what drove the decidely non-aristocratic public to adore her.
I agree with all your points. I expect I have trouble 'understanding' what other people call the phenomenon and the book because I have trouble with the celebrity culture. Many years ago I met the Beatles, but was distinctly under impressed, so much so, I gave their autographs to a friend!
Diana could be very well aware of her position and didn't mind using it when she wanted, IMO. She was more taken with the adoration of 'common people', which she hadn't had as the youngest daughter, from people of the same class.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #284  
Old 07-24-2007, 06:06 PM
Duchess's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: xx, Canada
Posts: 1,648
isn't it funny that diana didn't really fit into any "mold". she felt more comfortable with people that were in a lower social class than her own, yet all those people that she felt comfortable with still saw her in a higher social class.
__________________
Duchess
Reply With Quote
  #285  
Old 07-24-2007, 06:33 PM
TheTruth's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Between the first and second floor of the Eiffel Tower, France
Posts: 2,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchess View Post
isn't it funny that diana didn't really fit into any "mold". she felt more comfortable with people that were in a lower social class than her own, yet all those people that she felt comfortable with still saw her in a higher social class.
Well, when you're Princess of Wales you can't be in a low social class, know what I mean ? Although I understand you if you're talking about when she wasn't princess.
__________________

Please, help find a cure for ALS

Because it matters...
Reply With Quote
  #286  
Old 07-24-2007, 06:39 PM
LOSSEAN's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NASINU, Fiji
Posts: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
She was more taken with the adoration of 'common people', which she hadn't had as the youngest daughter, from people of the same class.
Is the adoration of higher class worth more than the those of the lower class? As I see it (from afar off, of course, thank goodness), the higher class (especially in Britain) are somewhat restrained in displaying adoration, even to Her Majesty.

The exception of course is that venerable statesman Sir Winston Churchill, incidently, a kinsman to Diana. It's quite something to see pictures of him greeting his young Queen when she came back from Kenya on that memorable occassion or at other functions. Head bowed in reverent affection whenever he shakes her hand. And in his speeches, always with deep respect to his sovereign. Ahh but how times have changed!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #287  
Old 07-24-2007, 09:43 PM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSSEAN View Post
Is the adoration of higher class worth more than the those of the lower class? As I see it (from afar off, of course, thank goodness), the higher class (especially in Britain) are somewhat restrained in displaying adoration, even to Her Majesty.

The exception of course is that venerable statesman Sir Winston Churchill, incidently, a kinsman to Diana.
Winston Churchill was half-American so I think that is where he got his effusiveness from, LOSSEAN! Americans have never been known to hold back and Churchill's mother Jennie Jerome certainly didn't. She scandalized Britons by campaigning for her husband by directly asking for people to vote for her husband for his position in Parliament. The Britons were scandalized; in Britain, politicians didn't directly solicit votes!

No LOSSEAN, I don't think the adoration of the higher classes is worth more than the adoration of lower classes, but if Diana felt uncomfortable with people of the upper class then I think it may be because she was uncomfortable with some aspects of herself since she was herself a member of the upper class. I think it would be impossible for her to totally discard her upper class upbringing even though she didn't exhibit the upper class parts of her personality too much to the public, does that make sense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skydragon
Many years ago I met the Beatles, but was distinctly under impressed, so much so, I gave their autographs to a friend!

Oh I would have killed for an autograph of George Harrison, skydragon. But for the most part, I'm the same way as you about the celebrity culture but I like to learn why other people think as they do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skydragon
She was more taken with the adoration of 'common people', which she hadn't had as the youngest daughter, from people of the same class.
Interesting, skydragon. I heard some of Diana's schoolteachers say that they thought Diana needed more attention than she was getting from her family (in particular her father) at the time, even though the teachers themselves could tell that the Earl was clearly very fond of his daughter. I haven't gotten the book from the library yet. In the book does Tina Brown mention this at all?
__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
Reply With Quote
  #288  
Old 07-24-2007, 09:55 PM
TheTruth's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Between the first and second floor of the Eiffel Tower, France
Posts: 2,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Interesting, skydragon. I heard some of Diana's schoolteachers say that they thought Diana needed more attention than she was getting from her family (in particular her father) at the time, even though the teachers themselves could tell that the Earl was clearly very fond of his daughter. I haven't gotten the book from the library yet. In the book does Tina Brown mention this at all?
I didn't read the book yet either so can't help you there. Although I'm pretty sure Sarah Bradford mention a part like that. If you have read the book, maybe you know what I'm talking about.
__________________

Please, help find a cure for ALS

Because it matters...
Reply With Quote
  #289  
Old 07-24-2007, 10:05 PM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Thanks TheTruth. I've ordered Bradford's book too.
__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
Reply With Quote
  #290  
Old 07-24-2007, 10:10 PM
TheTruth's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Between the first and second floor of the Eiffel Tower, France
Posts: 2,682
You're very welcomed. I found it was a great book, very balanced without making someone the 'bad guy'. Tina Brown's one seems quite interesting but I'm waiting less of it. Just my opinion though . Have a good reading
__________________

Please, help find a cure for ALS

Because it matters...
Reply With Quote
  #291  
Old 07-25-2007, 05:44 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Interesting, skydragon. I heard some of Diana's schoolteachers say that they thought Diana needed more attention than she was getting from her family (in particular her father) at the time, even though the teachers themselves could tell that the Earl was clearly very fond of his daughter. I haven't gotten the book from the library yet. In the book does Tina Brown mention this at all?
There is another one liner regarding this I think, but I can't find it at the moment.

There are one or two sections that show, IMO, Diana's need to be see as better than anyone else. When she heard her Grandfather the Earl had died, instead of a few tears, she rushed along the school corriders telling everyone 'I'm a Lady now, I'm Lady Diana now'.

I also think it is unfortunate that Brown seems to blame the nannies for giving up on Diana, but some of the torture she inflicted was awful. Apart from the pins in a cushion treatment of one, she flushed anothers engagement ring down the loo. These nasty episodes only get a short write up and I find it incredible that everyone seems to gloss over them, including Brown.

IMO, Diana was too busy making sure people from her own class, know she was now a step above them and if they failed to realise that and treat her accordingly, she could I think be quite vindictive. Most of the public treated her as she believed she should be treated, but I don't think she could work out why those from her own class, or Charles' friends didn't treat her that way as well.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #292  
Old 07-25-2007, 07:38 AM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Interesting, skydragon. I'm surprised one of her former nannies hasn't released a tell-all book then.

Unfortunately, on the subject that I am most interested in, how she got along with Charles' friends, I don't think Tina Brown is in a good position to write about. I do think that played a large part in the scheme of things.

Well I just realized that I reserved Sally Bedell Smith book at the library not Sarah Bradford's book. It was Smith's book I read before, not Bradford's. I can't believe I got those two mixed up. Smith had the analysis of Diana's media appeal that I thought was so striking so I wanted to compare her impression with Tina Brown's.
__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
Reply With Quote
  #293  
Old 07-25-2007, 08:12 AM
Warren's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 15,410
What should be kept in mind was that a good part of the appeal Diana had to ordinary people (on an international scale) was that on marriage she immediately attained the royal mystique. Without that, she would have been just another largely anonymous aristo.

What makes the "Diana phenomonon" so interesting, and maybe unique, is how, while at the pinnacle of society, she used that mystique to project herself not only as the protector of the downtrodden, but as a victim herself. While she undoubtedly had an ally in the media, she would certainly have been very well-aware of the public persona that was being presented to the world.

The flaw is that on closer examination heroes may have feet of clay; the tragedy is that it all began to unravel towards the end. Like many, I cannot understand why she so willingly became associated with (and allowed herself to be used by) the al-Fayeds, a lapse of judgement which was to prove fatal.
__________________
Seeking information? Check out the extensive Royal A-Z
Reply With Quote
  #294  
Old 07-25-2007, 08:20 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Interesting, skydragon. I'm surprised one of her former nannies hasn't released a tell-all book then.
Give it time!
Quote:
Unfortunately, on the subject that I am most interested in, how she got along with Charles' friends, I don't think Tina Brown is in a good position to write about. I do think that played a large part in the scheme of things.
I can't see any of Charles friends making any comments that could be made public and certainly not to Tina Brown.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #295  
Old 07-25-2007, 08:20 AM
susan alicia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: , Netherlands
Posts: 2,528
"..............Like many, I cannot understand why she so willingly became associated with (and allowed herself to be used by) the al-Fayeds, a lapse of judgement which was to prove fatal.........."

To humiliate Charles imo
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #296  
Old 07-25-2007, 10:01 AM
TheTruth's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Between the first and second floor of the Eiffel Tower, France
Posts: 2,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
There are one or two sections that show, IMO, Diana's need to be see as better than anyone else. When she heard her Grandfather the Earl had died, instead of a few tears, she rushed along the school corriders telling everyone 'I'm a Lady now, I'm Lady Diana now'.
Well, she rarely saw her grandfather who was by the way, a greedy person, obsessed by 'his' Althorp more than everything, even his own children. With someone like that, I wouldn't cry.
__________________

Please, help find a cure for ALS

Because it matters...
Reply With Quote
  #297  
Old 07-25-2007, 05:25 PM
Duchess's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: xx, Canada
Posts: 1,648
i agree that diana's association with the Al Fayed's was a big mistake and i think it still would have been had she not died. the popular opinion (or at least the one that's been planted by the media) is that she felt Al Fayed's seemingly unlimited resources/wealth could provide her with the kind of protection (and luxury?) she wanted. i guess we'll never know for sure. the only people that she would probably have discussed this with have not, and probably never will, tell the media about it.
__________________
Duchess
Reply With Quote
  #298  
Old 07-26-2007, 06:58 AM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Well the library told me it will take awhile to get Tina Brown's book but I did get Sally Bedell Smith's book and its interesting to read her analysis of the Diana phenomenon in light of Tina Brown's book.

Smith wrote that Diana's enigma was partly the uniqueness of being a royal princess, partly her espressive beauty (especially her eyes which communicated modesty) and also her air of vulnerablity and accessibility. The total made up a package that was unique. This is similar to quotes I heard from Brown's book.

On the second reading, Smith's analysis is annoying me a little more than before. When I first read it, no one had described Diana from this angle yet so it seemed revolutionary but now on the second read I wish she would support her argument more, if not by quotes at least by explaining how she arrives to some conclusions. She does better when she's writing about Diana's family. It appears that a lot of Diana's family on both sides talked to Smith and their revelations about themselves or each other sound more unguarded and therefore seem sometimes more revealing of Diana's environment and what shaped her than their remembrances of Diana herself.

Smith does seem like she differs greatly with Tina Brown on the impact of Diana's fame but I want to reserve judgment until I read Brown's book. Smith's goal in the book seems to be to uncover the human being underneath the Diana mystique and her opinion was that the fame damaged the flesh and blood human being that was Diana. Tina Brown, from what I've read, apparently frames the postive effects of Diana's media presence in terms of how it affects others so the two viewpoints may not be as contradictory as they first seem.
__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
Reply With Quote
  #299  
Old 07-26-2007, 09:56 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Smith wrote that Diana's enigma was partly the uniqueness of being a royal princess, partly her espressive beauty (especially her eyes which communicated modesty) and also her air of vulnerablity and accessibility. The total made up a package that was unique. This is similar to quotes I heard from Brown's book.
Very similar, however, don't forget that Diana apparently posed for hours for her father to take photos and spent further hours in front of a mirror, to cultivate just such a look. Martin Bashir said on the BBC programme about her interview, that Diana spent almost an hour having the camera and chair moved, so that she looked up and seemed 'vulnerable' to the lens.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #300  
Old 07-26-2007, 10:50 AM
TheTruth's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Between the first and second floor of the Eiffel Tower, France
Posts: 2,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Very similar, however, don't forget that Diana apparently posed for hours for her father to take photos and spent further hours in front of a mirror, to cultivate just such a look.
Okay she posed for her father but I think you say that this way because you don't like Diana. Why do you get her down like that? I mean, I don't do this for Camilla and I'm sure there's thing to say about her but I never said a bad word on her lol.
__________________

__________________

Please, help find a cure for ALS

Because it matters...
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ruling Families of the UAE current events: 2009 - Elspeth Ruling Families of the United Arab Emirates 32 07-13-2014 05:50 AM
Avatars and Fan Art of the Moroccan Royal Family Humera Royal Family of Morocco 115 06-19-2014 10:48 AM
Diana's relationships with The Queen and other members of the Royal Family Beck Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 355 11-04-2013 09:29 PM
The Duchess of Cambridge's Daytime Fashion Part 7: March 2012 - April 2012 iceflower Archives 393 04-27-2012 02:10 AM
Prince Harry to visit Belize, Jamaica, the Bahamas, and Brazil, 2-11 March 2012 wbenson Prince Harry and Prince William 211 03-16-2012 04:44 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth charlene crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge dutch royal history engagement fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympic games olympics ottoman poland prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marilene princess mary princess of asturias queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague visit wedding



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:24 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]