The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Royal Highlights > Royal Library

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #241  
Old 07-17-2007, 06:15 AM
selrahc4's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: , United States
Posts: 760
Tina Brown interview & a review of the book

From the review
Quote:
The Diana Chronicles is not a book on Diana. It is the book. Not only does it put the story of Diana in its proper historical context of British politics, journalism and the changing mores of the past quarter century, but it is also a perfect example of the nosy-parker’s art. It conveys, better than anything I have ever read, the basic intelligence of its subject. Di knew she was dicing with disaster when she chose the tabloid press as the means by which she would rise beyond megastardom to sex goddess, saint and martyr.
__________________

__________________
aka Janet on some other forums
Reply With Quote
  #242  
Old 07-17-2007, 09:36 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
I don't think it can be 'the' book on Diana, as it fails to mention the revelations that Diana was the author of poison pen letters to her step mother and in fact pushed the woman down the stairs. Many 'facts' that Brown has written about, neither she nor any sources could have knowledge of. Even the conversation with Philip turns out to be another case of Diana apparently telling a friend her version of what was supposedly said. The story of the QM signalling for lemons is laughable, if her cook had forgotten them, she would of course have just sent someone to the local shop!

It could, if all the hype about new sources with new revelations, have been a great book. Now it just falls into the 'more fiction than substantiated facts' bin.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #243  
Old 07-17-2007, 10:30 AM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly View Post
Brown's book, for all of my purposes, addresses my queries and concerns, including the political and social ramifications of the upheaval which Diana occasioned. There are aspects to this book, I believe, which go beyond the 'show and tell' aspects of so many others which report on the Diana phenomenon. For instance, Brown draws a correlation between the impact of Thatcherism and its attendant social dislocation and change and the rise of a perceived national attachment to and affection for Diana. Sociologist and historians may well, I think, give serious consideration to this book, sooner or later.
That I can well believe Polly. I think, as I mentioned eariler, that Tina Brown's metier is celebrity, the media, and its influence on society and she is perhaps immently suited to write about the media phenomenon that was Diana which I don't believe is dependent on having an ability to write well about the person Diana.

Its an intriguing possibility that Diana was intentionally cast in the fairytale princess role opposite Margaret Thatcher's Iron Lady.

May I ask what concerns you yourself had about the political and social upheavals that Diana occasioned?
__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
Reply With Quote
  #244  
Old 07-17-2007, 10:32 AM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by selrahc4 View Post
Interesting Janet.

In reading the reviews of Tina Brown's book, I am struck with one similarity between Tina Brown's analysis and Sarah Bradford's analysis of Diana's impact on the media. They both seem to say that Diana could never have had the impact that she did without her massive insecurity and sense of low self-esteem. Perhaps Tina Brown borrowed a bit from Sarah Bradford's analysis but she had enough media saavy to come up with something on her own.

The idea that the Diana phenomenon could not occur with a woman of relatively healthy self-confidence and self-esteem is one of the most paradoxical and (to me) most disturbing hypotheses to come from the Diana phenomenon.
__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
Reply With Quote
  #245  
Old 07-17-2007, 11:21 AM
Polly's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mebourne, Australia
Posts: 653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
I don't think it can be 'the' book on Diana, as it fails to mention the revelations that Diana was the author of poison pen letters to her step mother and in fact pushed the woman down the stairs.

Many 'facts' that Brown has written about, neither she nor any sources could have knowledge of. Even the conversation with Philip turns out to be another case of Diana apparently telling a friend her version of what was supposedly said. The story of the QM signalling for lemons is laughable, if her cook had forgotten them, she would of course have just sent someone to the local shop!

Brown's does indeed mention those things, and quite explicity, Skydragon. Have you read the book?

As for the 'facts', Brown is no more cavalier with them than anyone else has ever been. She has the advantage over many of at least nominating a source. This is the third time that I've asked why those who are quoted or have words attributed to them have not yet objected if they are misrepresented.

The QM signalling for lemons was a charming and pleasant little aside, and meant as such. Actually, I can easily believe that.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #246  
Old 07-17-2007, 12:53 PM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
I have to say that I have not been impressed with her impersonation of a fly on the wall, (HP is far more interesting at the moment), which is the only way she could possibly state some of the conversations she attributes to various people. Just because she is no more cavalier than anyone else, does not make her facts, the facts. Where is the evidence of the tapes she has heard, detailing private conversations between FSK & Diana, for instance?
Why have they not objected, perhaps they do not want to give her free publicity with a lawsuit, in a he said, she said confrontation, costing 1000's of pounds. Nothing proven either way, from what I have read, Ms Brown is a true reporter, well practised as they all seem to be, in the art of passing off fiction mixed with a few facts, IMO.
The Queen Mother asking someone to signal for lemons, why, as I said there are a couple of very good shops that HM's staff frequented, so why would she ask someone to signal HM? A charming aside or an attempt to show the QM was dotty?

Will I do more than give this book the cursory glance it has had, probably not, I have other more realistic books to read at the moment.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #247  
Old 07-17-2007, 03:22 PM
Polly's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mebourne, Australia
Posts: 653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
I have to say that I have not been impressed with her impersonation of a fly on the wall, (HP is far more interesting at the moment), which is the only way she could possibly state some of the conversations she attributes to various people. Just because she is no more cavalier than anyone else, does not make her facts, the facts. Where is the evidence of the tapes she has heard, detailing private conversations between FSK & Diana, for instance?
Why have they not objected, perhaps they do not want to give her free publicity with a lawsuit, in a he said, she said confrontation, costing 1000's of pounds. Nothing proven either way, from what I have read, Ms Brown is a true reporter, well practised as they all seem to be, in the art of passing off fiction mixed with a few facts, IMO.
The Queen Mother asking someone to signal for lemons, why, as I said there are a couple of very good shops that HM's staff frequented, so why would she ask someone to signal HM? A charming aside or an attempt to show the QM was dotty?

Will I do more than give this book the cursory glance it has had, probably not, I have other more realistic books to read at the moment.
Well, not reading the book is your prerogative, undoubtedly. However, I am having problems with your emphatic statements, decided opinions and comments about it without having read it. I think, too, that it might be noted that whereas there are quite a few 'personal communication' footnotes, there are also many from well-known, named sources.

As for your surmise that Brown's intention was to show the Queen Mother as dotty - no such thing! What the books says, is:

'A guest recalls seeing the draft of a ship's signal from the Queen Mother to Britannia: 'Dearest Lillibet. Bring lemons, have run out.'

The guest is named as Victoria Mather, who told this to Brown on May 22, 2006.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #248  
Old 07-18-2007, 03:24 AM
Polly's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mebourne, Australia
Posts: 653
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post

May I ask what concerns you yourself had about the political and social upheavals that Diana occasioned?
Ysbel,

It was, and always has been, my position that neither 'side' was inherently better or worse behaved than t'other. My sense of loyalty to Her Majesty and her Heir has never once wavered. However, I truly believed that Diana engendered a tsunami of difference, i.e. difference of opinion and attitude. To my observation, the Palace and its attendants and lackeys were utterly confounded by her popularity, and, yes, it must be said, adoration, in some quarters. To whit: they were completely at a loss as to how to countermand her prescience and appeal, even in those few instances where they could even begin to comprehend it. That they couldn't accept, much less inhabit, a radically altered world which worshipped celebrity in all of its manifestations, was its major shortcoming. In the final analysis, there are highly paid advisers to advise and inform on social aberrations and indulgences.

From my perspective, I could almost hear the tumbrils rumbling, and was most anxious that Her Majesty would survive, unscathed. In my long view, it was a near run thing, and although I'm not a fan of his, Tony Blair did a great deal to assist in maintaining the status quo in this instance. Both in England and Australia I was horrified to hear the slanders and anger directed at The Queen and her son over Diana's ghastly death, which I always felt was manifestly unfair. Neither of them, no matter what, would have wished her dead!

Still, I believe that Diana was an immense threat to the English so-called Establishment. A.N. Wilson, in The New York Times, commented that if she continues to rock the boat, "the Establishment will simply get rid of her, as they got rid of Edward and Mrs Simpson". The irony here, is, of course, that the Spencers were much more legitmate 'Establishment' than all of the nouveaux and faux-gentry which surrounded the Crown, especially those who inhabited Camilla's world. Its interests, invested in the Crown's patronage, was seriously challenged at a mundane, social level, and therefore Diana's actions were deemed insupportable. The advent of Diana relegated the almost religious reverence which many held for the Royal Family into a more secular milieu.

In an historical sense, the quasi-religious mystique of royalty came full circle with Diana. Monarchy used to be based on divine right. But just as monarchy, traditionally, used religious trappings to justify its rule, modern celebrity has a way of slipping into a form of popular religion, hitherto quite unacknowledged and unappreciated in its power.

In this sense, Diana evolved into a sacrificial symbol in several ways. First she became the patron saint of victims, the sick, the discriminated against, the homeless. Then, partly through her real suffering at the hands of a rigidly formal family trained to play rigidly formal public roles, and partly through her shrewd manipulation of the press, Diana herself projected a compelling image of victimhood. Women in unhappy marriages identified with her; so did outsiders of one kind or another, ethnic, sexual or social. Like many religious idols, she was openly abused and ridiculed, in her case by the same press that stoked the public worship of her. And finally, she became the ultimate victim of her own fame.

I remember some people, devoted monarchists all, bewailing Diana's death. "How could she leave?" For the last 16 years, on the world's stage, Diana had embodied Britain for much of the world. She showed that despite the loss of empire and influence and the heavy weight of history, the country was capable of youth and vigour and immense charm, still. By blood alone and her impeccable lineage, she was an endorsement of all which Britain had been and still could be. If one were to investigate such things, Diana Spencer was a much better bred Englishwoman than anyone else in the Royal Family.

But what mattered most was that Diana was truly the world's princess, a title which no other could ever hope to attain, and no monarch ever has. How many nations embraced expressions of shock and dismay and mourning in public, far beyond diplomacy's or mere politeness' requirements?

There have been many changes for the better in House of Windsor, and 'tis my considered opinion that they are for the better, and that they are due to the late Princess of Wales.

Tina Brown's book endorses this view. Tina Brown's book, though, does not do this at the expense of Diana's ex-royal-in-laws. On the whole, I admire it because it's approps, and casts no heavy stones.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #249  
Old 07-18-2007, 08:06 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly View Post
Well, not reading the book is your prerogative, undoubtedly. However, I am having problems with your emphatic statements, decided opinions and comments about it without having read it. I think, too, that it might be noted that whereas there are quite a few 'personal communication' footnotes, there are also many from well-known, named sources.
As for your surmise that Brown's intention was to show the Queen Mother as dotty - no such thing! What the books says, is:
'A guest recalls seeing the draft of a ship's signal from the Queen Mother to Britannia: 'Dearest Lillibet. Bring lemons, have run out.'
The guest is named as Victoria Mather, who told this to Brown on May 22, 2006.
I'm afraid you are jumping to conclusions, I am still reading it, although not as avidly as some it would seem. I tend to lose interest when it is clear that the author has put her 'take' on 'facts' she has taken from other authors. Just because these 'facts' have been written of before, does not make them the truth.
Her interpretation that Diana & Charles would get back together is far too syrupy and as for Charles caring for Diana if she was badly injured, does not mean living with her, rekindling the marriage, it simply means that he would possibly have found her a decent home (which she didn't have) and paid for a carer.
As I am still reading the book, in between others, I may come back to this. So far I would say this book is ideal for it's American market, Diana devotees and those willing to believe everything they read, without questioning the logic or indeed truth of what they are being told.

The only Victoria Mather I can think of is a journalist and it also begs the question how 'a guest' would see a draft of any signals exchanged between Britannia and anyone else. Did Victoria go rifling through documents in the signals/comms room, search the bridge? Think about it for a moment, do you really see the QM sending a message to HM about something as trivial as a lack of lemons, do you not think perhaps that if her staff, for some unknown reason, could not buy them from the nearest Spar, her staff would be the ones contacting HM's staff?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #250  
Old 07-18-2007, 08:47 AM
sirhon11234's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 2,464
Skydragon what do you mean that the Princess didn't have decent home, Diana lived in a 3 floored Kensington Palace apartment thats more than decent.
__________________
"I think the biggest disease the world suffers from in this day and age is the disease of people feeling unloved."
Diana, the Princess of Wales
Reply With Quote
  #251  
Old 07-18-2007, 09:03 AM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Thanks Polly for explaining. Now I understand what you mean and why you are so impressed with Tina's book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly View Post
There have been many changes for the better in House of Windsor, and 'tis my considered opinion that they are for the better, and that they are due to the late Princess of Wales.

Tina Brown's book endorses this view.
Based on your writings in the thread, Tina Brown seems like an apologist or defender of all the good that the celebritydom of Diana accomplished. She not only describes the effects of Diana's celebrity as Sarah Bradford did before; rather she celebrates it and extols it and assures the reading public that Diana's celebrity is really not incompatible with the traditional British values extolled by the monarchy.
__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
Reply With Quote
  #252  
Old 07-18-2007, 09:11 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhon11234 View Post
Skydragon what do you mean that the Princess didn't have decent home, Diana lived in a 3 floored Kensington Palace apartment thats more than decent.
Why do you think she asked her brother to allow her to live on his estate?
If she had been seriously injured, crippled or disfigured, do you think KP would have been the ideal place for her?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #253  
Old 07-18-2007, 01:57 PM
scooter's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: katonah, United States
Posts: 2,281
I just finished this book and found it to be fairly presented to all parties concerned. My personal view is that there were no completely innocent bystanders by the end of the story, although I think some started out more innocent than others. The book was an enjoyable read and brought back to me many points that I had forgotten. Enjoy!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #254  
Old 07-19-2007, 05:36 AM
Warren's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 15,282
Before it gets lost in the to 'n fro, Polly deserves congratulations for her considered post at #248 above where she examines Diana's role as "patron saint" to various people and the connection between royal mystique and modern celebrity, and for placing the "Diana phenomenon" in a social context. Much appreciated.
__________________
Seeking information? Check out the extensive Royal A-Z
Reply With Quote
  #255  
Old 07-19-2007, 03:32 PM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
although I think some started out more innocent than others. The book was an enjoyable read and brought back to me many points that I had forgotten. Enjoy!
If that view is based on TB's 'evidence', I wouldn't want you as a juror on my trial! (joke)

I am still trawling through this book and I have not changed my opinion on it's accuracy.
Quote:
utterly confounded by her popularity
or were they dumbfounded by the way she manipulated the media and people around her.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #256  
Old 07-20-2007, 06:51 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly View Post
Brown's does indeed mention those things, and quite explicity, Skydragon. Have you read the book?
We must have totally different books, as the only reference to the poison pen letter I can find, is on page 44 and is a one liner.
"Diana's campaign against the ascendancy of the new Countess of Althorp was a replay of her guerilla warfare against her first nannies. She got a school friend to write Raine a poisonous letter. She made harrassing phone calls..... etc, etc"
It barely covers any of the details, that this poor school friend was questioned by the police until she broke down and told them that Diana dictated the letter. What page is your 'explicit' mention on?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #257  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:04 AM
sirhon11234's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 2,464
And Diana did these things when she was a teenager who hated her step-mother. And before she died the Princess was more closer to Raine than her own mother.
But the Princess of Wales did push Raine down a flight of stairs which is very bothering.
__________________
"I think the biggest disease the world suffers from in this day and age is the disease of people feeling unloved."
Diana, the Princess of Wales
Reply With Quote
  #258  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:23 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhon11234 View Post
And Diana did these things when she was a teenager who hated her step-mother. And before she died the Princess was more closer to Raine than her own mother..
Well that wasn't hard, taking into account that Diana had again fallen out with her mother. On what do you base your assumption that she was close to Raine?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #259  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:45 AM
sirhon11234's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 2,464
Ever After by Anne Edwards, A Royal Duty by the rat Paul Burrell. And there are pictures of Diana and Raine together before she died.
__________________
"I think the biggest disease the world suffers from in this day and age is the disease of people feeling unloved."
Diana, the Princess of Wales
Reply With Quote
  #260  
Old 07-20-2007, 09:09 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhon11234 View Post
Ever After by Anne Edwards, A Royal Duty by the rat Paul Burrell. And there are pictures of Diana and Raine together before she died.
Impeccable 'sources' then! There are a few pictures of Diana and Raine, but nothing, IMO, that would back up any statement that she was closer to Raine than her own mother under normal circumstances.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ruling Families of the UAE current events: 2009 - Elspeth Ruling Families of the United Arab Emirates 32 07-13-2014 05:50 AM
Avatars and Fan Art of the Moroccan Royal Family Humera Royal Family of Morocco 115 06-19-2014 10:48 AM
Diana's relationships with The Queen and other members of the Royal Family Beck Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 355 11-04-2013 08:29 PM
The Duchess of Cambridge's Daytime Fashion Part 7: March 2012 - April 2012 iceflower Archives 393 04-27-2012 02:10 AM
Prince Harry to visit Belize, Jamaica, the Bahamas, and Brazil, 2-11 March 2012 wbenson Prince Harry and Prince William 211 03-16-2012 04:44 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri habsburg hohenzollern infanta elena jordan king abdullah ii king albert ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg ottoman pom prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince emmanuel prince felipe prince felix prince floris prince laurent prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess claire princess eleonore princess elisabeth princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marie princess mary queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia spain state visit wedding william


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:05 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]