The Almanach de Gotha and GHDA

[Duchess Sophie]

I want to buy a genealogy book that covers the royal houses. So you have then two choices: the Almanach de Gotha or the german Genealogisches handbuch des Adels.

Which is the best?? Does anyone here has one of these books?? Are they easy to use??

 

[hailey]

Hi....I just received my first GHdA 2004 Der Furstlichen Hauser after ordering it over a month ago. Of course, it is in German. However, it is only an update on certain houses. From what I understand, you would have to have many of these books from different years to have the entire genealogy.

I get by reading German and haven't had time to really look at it. You just look up the family you want.....Say Hohenlohe...it is from page 188 to 223.

I have to look at it more to really say but I think it is okay at first glance. However, if you are interested in a particular family, you may have to go backwards in time and buy several to get the whole genealogy.

I live in USA and it cost $60.00 with shipping. Hope this helps.

Hailey

 

[Warren]

You would probably find the Almanach de Gotha more readable (English) and it contains just about all Royal and Mediatised families.

 

[Chatleen]

I want to buy a genealogy book that covers the royal houses. So you have then two choices: the Almanach de Gotha or the german Genealogisches handbuch des Adels.

Which is the best?? Does anyone here has one of these books?? Are they easy to use??

Have you considered borrowing some of the books (different years) from a library before you actually purchase? Maybe that would make it easier for you to take your decision.

 

[Jo]

You would probably find the Almanach de Gotha more readable (English) and it contains just about all Royal and Mediatised families.

I just bought my first gotha and i found it really interesting however i sent it back because it didn't have info that i wanted in it. Like felipe and fred's weddings and the fourth kid of mc and p. i didn't see any of that in there but i will be buying the 2005 ed.

 

[Warren]

Here is the link to the Almanach de Gotha web site. It's worth having a look if you are into genealolgies.

http://www.almanachdegotha.com/site/hhw.htm

 

[norwegianne]

I just bought my first gotha and i found it really interesting however i sent it back because it didn't have info that i wanted in it. Like felipe and fred's weddings and the fourth kid of mc and p. i didn't see any of that in there but i will be buying the 2005 ed.

I suspect that a book like that will always be a bit outdated by the time you get it.

 

[Josefine]

what kind of book is this?

 

[Warren]

The Almanach de Gotha

what kind of book is this?

The Almanach de Gotha is the chronicle of European genealogy for the detailed membership of the European Royal, Princely and Mediatised families. It has been published since 1763, lost 50-odd years and reappeared in 1998. It has given its name to the general term for European Royal/Princely society: "the Gotha".

It is deliberatley a small size (though thick) so that it can be carried around for easy reference when checking the eligibility of potential marriage partners for oneself or one's children.

More seriously it gives the details of every living member of the various Houses. It is divided into three sections: Part I: Reigning and formerly reigning Royal Houses of Europe and South America; Part II: Mediatised Sovereign Houses of the Holy Roman Empire; Part III: among others, the descendents of unequal or unrecognised marriages (you don't want to be demoted to Part III!).

The Almanach is one of the essential books for any Royal genealogist.
.

 

[Sean.~]

GDHA is better, more detailed, and accurate. The "Micael Kennedy" Gotha( since 1998) is in the opinion of many geneoligists, a poor rendition of the original Almanach de
Gotha.

 

[tiaraprin]

I actually like them both. However, the Almanach de Gotha is best for the older geneologies.

 

[Sean.~]

I actually like them both. However, the Almanach de Gotha is best for the older geneologies.

It has a lot of incorrect information, though, and was founded by a rather questionable individual...

The original and 'real' gotha was an excellent resource, though. You can buy old originals online, going back to the 19th century. My oldest one is from 1867.

 

[tiaraprin]

It has a lot of incorrect information, though, and was founded by a rather questionable individual...

The original and 'real' gotha was an excellent resource, though. You can buy old originals online, going back to the 19th century. My oldest one is from 1867.

The "Real Gotha" is the best!!

 

[Idriel]

It has a lot of incorrect information, though, and was founded by a rather questionable individual...

What do you mean Sean?

 

[Sean.~]

What do you mean Sean?

It has a lot of mistakes.

I don't have time to list all the stuff on Kennedy, but it is all pretty well known stuff. If you're interested, you can read an old discussion on atr. Here's the link.

http://tinyurl.com/88m93

 

[JulieS]

I find an almanach of the gotha on Internet :

The Almanach de Saxe Gotha , Volume I , Page One , A Register of The Reigning Imperial and Royal Sovereign Houses of Europe .

 

[MAfan]

The Almanach de Gotha , Volume IV , The Complete Listing of The Imperial Nobility of The Holy Roman Empire .

I've a question: who is "H.I.&.R.H. Prince Karl Friedrich von Deutschland, de jure Emperor Charles VIII of Germany, Hereditary Sovereign Chancellor and Grand Master of the Imperial Order"??? I've never heard him before...

 

[Count]

We already discussed last year about this website. It is a bad copy of the "real" Almanach de Gotha (please note the difference in the name, the site is Almanach de Saxe Gotha...) with existing noble families but also with many fake families, who are not noble. I remember Tosca wrote about a Count Luciano Pavarotti from Modena, we know for sure that Luciano Pavarotti never received a title...
At the moment the best "Almanach" available are the GHdA in German language and the "Almanach de Gotha" published in the uk, a copy of the old one where, at least, there are no fake families...

 

[Alastair_r]

Are there any books that talk about the people in the Gotha. Profiles of titled people or deposed royals ? All the good royal books seem to only be printed in French

 

[Marengo]

A 2012 edition of the almanach de gotha is discussed on royalblog.nl:
ROYALBLOG.NL: De zoons en dochters van prins Carlos

Hans Jacobs was able to discover a lot of mistakes about the Dutch royals alone:
- Princess Margriet was created 'princess of Orange-Nassau-van Vollenhoven'
- The children of Princes Maurits, Bernhard jr and Pieter-Christiaan are listed as princes and princesses
- The daughters of prince Maurits are listed as countesses
- The duke of Parma has 3 children: Jaime, Margarita and Maria Carolina
- The date of the civil wedding of prince Maurits is not mentioned.

The senior editor apparently promissed that the 2013 version will 'appear correctly in the next edition'.

 

[JR76]

https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2483897

As far as I remember the first editions of the "new" almanach got a lot of criticism for containing factual faults. Has that been addressed and corrected in later editions.

The history of the Almanach da Gotha and it's impact on the lives of royal families and on the power dynamics of Europe is fascinating. It's also interesting to see how it's very German centred view of what families counted as what was exported east and south resulting in quite a lot of suffering for the persons whose lives it involved. For example not even the most German centred snob can deny that the great Rurikid and Gediminid houses of the East should be at least considered equal to many of the minor German houses that became placed above them in the Almanach.

 

[Blog Real]

Various volumes of the book:
https://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Gea185ff8/22340714_syEFd.jpeg

More information:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almanach_de_Gotha

https://www.nobility-association.com/whoisnobleingotha.htm

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The history of the Almanach da Gotha and it's impact on the lives of royal families and on the power dynamics of Europe is fascinating. It's also interesting to see how it's very German centred view of what families counted as what was exported east and south resulting in quite a lot of suffering for the persons whose lives it involved. For example not even the most German centred snob can deny that the great Rurikid and Gediminid houses of the East should be at least considered equal to many of the minor German houses that became placed above them in the Almanach.

I've noticed the German-centered views among present-day royal watchers (although to a much less widespread extent than British-centered views), but didn't realize it had serious negative consequences among actual European royalty/nobility in centuries past. Could you explain?

 

[JR76]

I've noticed the German-centered views among present-day royal watchers (although to a much less widespread extent than British-centered views), but didn't realize it had serious negative consequences among actual European royalty/nobility in centuries past. Could you explain?

I'm referring to all the heartache it caused those whose relationships didn't fit into the restrictions set by the almanach.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I've noticed the German-centered views among present-day royal watchers (although to a much less widespread extent than British-centered views), but didn't realize it had serious negative consequences among actual European royalty/nobility in centuries past. Could you explain?

Because back in those for example, if a Prince of a sovereign house in the German or Austrian empires married a mere un mediatized Countess, he would lose his succession rights and probably property because all of that had serious implications for him financially, socially and politically. That prince’s children would not have the right to his titles and style or his inheritance.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I'm referring to all the heartache it caused those whose relationships didn't fit into the restrictions set by the almanach.

I see, so it would have given rise to pressure to marry into "equal" German houses over e.g. eastern European houses which objectively were equally grand.

Because back in those for example, if a Prince of a sovereign house in the German or Austrian empires married a mere un mediatized Countess, he would lose his succession rights and probably property because all of that had serious implications for him financially, socially and politically. That prince’s children would not have the right to his titles and style or his inheritance.

While the loss of rights did occur in some cases, in German or Austrian families I believe it was more often the case that a prince whose wife did not qualify as suitably ranked would marry morganatically. The prince's own rights to rank, property, the throne, etc. would be preserved, but these would not extend to his wife or their children. But I understand your general point.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2483897

As far as I remember the first editions of the "new" almanach got a lot of criticism for containing factual faults. Has that been addressed and corrected in later editions.

The history of the Almanach da Gotha and it's impact on the lives of royal families and on the power dynamics of Europe is fascinating. It's also interesting to see how it's very German centred view of what families counted as what was exported east and south resulting in quite a lot of suffering for the persons whose lives it involved. For example not even the most German centred snob can deny that the great Rurikid and Gediminid houses of the East should be at least considered equal to many of the minor German houses that became placed above them in the Almanach.

it depends on the families and how they see them in comparison to themselves. Plus there’s the religion issue. The difference also is that while the “minor German houses” became deposed by the Napoleonic wars, they received a new status of being mediatized and therefore equal to the ruling houses, in contrast the Rurikids and Gediminds werent mediatized even though they used to be very prominent ruling dynasties and became vassals of the Russian Emperor and the Romanovs did not consider them equal because they started following the German laws of equal marriages.

I see, so it would have given rise to pressure to marry into "equal" German houses over e.g. eastern European houses which objectively were equally grand.



While the loss of rights did occur in some cases, in German or Austrian families I believe it was more often the case that a prince whose wife did not qualify as suitably ranked would marry morganatically. The prince's own rights to rank, property, the throne, etc. would be preserved, but these would not extend to his wife or their children. But I understand your general point.

in some cases that Prince would lose his succession rights and his rank, a good example is the Dukes of Teck and Urach, formerly Wurttemberg Princes who married morganatically and who had no succession rights to the throne of Wurttemberg. Plus they were given new titles and styles which were lesser than their previous titles and styles.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

in some cases that Prince would lose his succession rights and his rank, a good example is the Dukes of Teck and Urach, formerly Wurttemberg Princes who married morganatically and who had no succession rights to the throne of Wurttemberg. Plus they were given new titles and styles which were lesser than their previous titles and styles.

Yes, I agreed with you that such cases occurred. In the specific cases of the Dukedoms of Teck and Urach, these were conferred on the sons of morganatically-married princes, not the princes themselves, who retained their styles.

 

[JR76]

it depends on the families and how they see them in comparison to themselves. Plus there’s the religion issue. The difference also is that while the “minor German houses” became deposed by the Napoleonic wars, they received a new status of being mediatized and therefore equal to the ruling houses, in contrast the Rurikids and Gediminds werent mediatized even though they used to be very prominent ruling dynasties and became vassals of the Russian Emperor and the Romanovs did not consider them equal because they started following the German laws of equal marriages.

I'm perfectly aware of all that and still find it German centred and absurd. Naturally the Holstein-Gottorp-Romanovs, although fervent Russian patriots, were mostly German themselves so no wonder that they chose to adhere to the German rules.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I'm perfectly aware of all that and still find it German centred and absurd. Naturally the Holstein-Gottorp-Romanovs, although fervent Russian patriots, were mostly German themselves so no wonder that they chose to adhere to the German rules.

Well the dynasty paternally was of Russian origin but overtime started following those rules when married German brides over Russian brides that they previously used to marry. But they have made a few mésalliances, for example Peter the Great’s second wife was a peasant. It was mostly the Germans and Austrians who made the idea of equal marriages, other jurisdictions didn’t have ironclad house laws perse, but just that it would be expected that members of the Gotha simply marry in their milieu.