"Royals and the Reich: Princes von Hessen in Nazi Germany" Jonathan Petropoulos 2006


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Warren said:
"Royals and the Reich: the Princes von Hessen in Nazi Germany."
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Hello everybody!
Sorry to come back to this topic but could someone who has read the book tell me more about who these two princes were? (BTW, Martin's away so he couldn't tell me :( )
The only Prince Phillipp von Hessen-Cassel I could find was born in the 16thC!!! :cool:
Thank you!
Alejandro
 
Two Princes of Hesse

alejandro_sk said:
Hello everybody!
Sorry to come back to this topic but could someone tell me more about who these two princes were? The only Prince Phillipp von Hessen-Cassel I could find was born in the 16thC!!!
Click to expand...
Princes Philipp and Christoph of Hesse were sons of Friedrich Karl, the Landgrave of Hesse (-Cassel) who married a daughter of Queen Victoria's daughter Vicky (Empress Frederick).

• Christoph (1901- killed in action 1943) was married to Princess Sophie of Greece, a sister of the current Duke of Edinburgh.

• Philipp (1896-1980) became Landgrave of Hesse and Head of All the House of Hesse. He was married to Princess Mafalda, a daughter of King Vittorio Emanuele III of Italy.

Of the two Princes, Albert Speer only mentions Philipp in his book 'Inside the Third Reich': "He was one of the few followers whom Hitler always treated with deference and respect. Philipp had often been useful to him, and especially in the early years of the Third Reich had arranged contacts with the heads of Italian Fascism. In addition he had helped Hitler purchase valuable art works [in Italy]."

In 1943 Prince Philipp was invited to Hitler's Headquarters where he was placed under house arrest, and then he and Princess Mafalda were taken to Buchenwald (where she died in 1944). Speer suggests Philipp was arrested in revenge for the fall of Mussolini, as an example to his inner circle that no-one was "safe", and because Hitler suspected Philipp was leaking information to the Italians.
 
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susan alicia said:
Nancy Mitford did not have any extreem views as far as I know and think the "socialist" sister was actually a communist
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0747245754/qid=1142934213/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_3_2/026-8232396-1290846
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Diana Mitford, married the leader of the British Union of Fascists, Oswald Mosley.
There seems to be very little mention of Pamela's political 'bent'.
Unity Mitford went to Nazi Germany and idolized Adolf Hitler, she attempted suicide at the start of the war.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jessica Mitford was an Anti-Fascist activist.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Deborah was the youngest Mitford girl and she married Andrew Cavendish, who became the Duke of Devonshire. [/FONT]
It was reported that Nancy actually reported Diana to the authorities.
 
Jessica, a vocal Communist, eloped with a notorious cousin who was also a nephew of Winston Churchill;

(from amazon.com)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393324141/ref=pd_sim_b_1/103-6204784-8535822?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155

this is a great serie, shows haow nancy mitford modeled the characters in the radlett family on her own
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0278548/

Skydragon said:
Diana Mitford, married the leader of the British Union of Fascists, Oswald Mosley.
There seems to be very little mention of Pamela's political 'bent'.
Unity Mitfordwent to Nazi Germany and idolized Adolf Hitler, she attempted suicide at the start of the war.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jessica Mitford was an Anti-Fascist activist.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Deborah was the youngest Mitford girl and she married Andrew Cavendish, who became the Duke of Devonshire. [/FONT]
It was reported that Nancy actually reported Diana to the authorities.
Click to expand...
 
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susan alicia said:
Jessica, a vocal Communist, eloped with a notorious cousin who was also a nephew of Winston Churchill;

(from amazon.com)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393324141/ref=pd_sim_b_1/103-6204784-8535822?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155

this is a great series, shows how nancy mitford modeled the characters in the radlett family on her own
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0278548/
Click to expand...

Esmond Romilly, was Winston Churchill's 19-year-old "red" nephew who had run away from school to join the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War. Throughout their time together, they shared a passionate commitment to communism. The anti fascists were against the nazi's whilst embracing communism.

They look like good books.:)
 
Beside the books that have been mentioned here already, do any of you know of any other titles that my be out there to educate myself on this subject. As I mentioned earlier, I have chosen to remain blissfully ignorant all these years, but now this subject intrigues me, mainly because I'm finally seeing a different side of Nazi Germany than those that have been painted and told all these years. Not to mention that I never knew that any of the RF's had anything to do with it. The only thing I really know is about the Jews and how and why they got to the concentration camps and what became of them once they got there.
Any suggestions are welcome, and I'm sorry if I offend anyone by asking. Please keep in mind that I basically know nothing of this subject, so it would really need to be a basic primer so that I can understand the whom what, when, when, where, and why of things before I move on to others that have been mentioned.
Thank you in advance.
 
think this thread shows that the royals were not in a specific way involved with the nazi's, not more so than other levels of society.
do not understand why anyone would be offended by your asking, I suggest you go to a library.

sesa said:
Beside the books that have been mentioned here already, do any of you know of any other titles that my be out there to educate myself on this subject. As I mentioned earlier, I have chosen to remain blissfully ignorant all these years, but now this subject intrigues me, mainly because I'm finally seeing a different side of Nazi Germany than those that have been painted and told all these years. Not to mention that I never knew that any of the RF's had anything to do with it. The only thing I really know is about the Jews and how and why they got to the concentration camps and what became of them once they got there.
Any suggestions are welcome, and I'm sorry if I offend anyone by asking. Please keep in mind that I basically know nothing of this subject, so it would really need to be a basic primer so that I can understand the whom what, when, when, where, and why of things before I move on to others that have been mentioned.
Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...
 
Warren said:
Princes Philipp and Christoph of Hesse were sons of Friedrich Karl, the Landgrave of Hesse (-Cassel) who married a daughter of Queen Victoria's daughter Vicky (Empress Frederick).

• Christoph (1901- killed in action 1943) was married to Princess Sophie of Greece, a sister of the current Duke of Edinburgh.

• Philipp (1896-1980) became Landgrave of Hesse and Head of All the House of Hesse. He was married to Princess Mafalda, a daughter of King Vittorio Emanuele III of Italy.

Of the two Princes, Albert Speer only mentions Philipp in his book 'Inside the Third Reich': "He was one of the few followers whom Hitler always treated with deference and respect. Philipp had often been useful to him, and especially in the early years of the Third Reich had arranged contacts with the heads of Italian Fascism. In addition he had helped Hitler purchase valuable art works [in Italy]."

In 1943 Prince Philipp was invited to Hitler's Headquarters where he was placed under house arrest, and then he and Princess Mafalda were taken to Buchenwald (where she died in 1944). Speer suggests Philipp was arrested in revenge for the fall of Mussolini, as an example to his inner circle that no-one was "safe", and because Hitler suspected Philipp was leaking information to the Italians.
Click to expand...
Hi Warren!
Thank you for the info. I think there was more in the title than in the book. Maybe the writer was trying to achieve rapid fame. :cool:
Have you read the book? What do you think about it? Is it objective, fair, etc.?
Take care!
Alejandro
 
sesa said:
Beside the books that have been mentioned here already, do any of you know of any other titles that my be out there to educate myself on this subject. As I mentioned earlier, I have chosen to remain blissfully ignorant all these years, but now this subject intrigues me, mainly because I'm finally seeing a different side of Nazi Germany than those that have been painted and told all these years. Not to mention that I never knew that any of the RF's had anything to do with it. The only thing I really know is about the Jews and how and why they got to the concentration camps and what became of them once they got there.
Any suggestions are welcome, and I'm sorry if I offend anyone by asking. Please keep in mind that I basically know nothing of this subject, so it would really need to be a basic primer so that I can understand the whom what, when, when, where, and why of things before I move on to others that have been mentioned.
Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...
Hi sesa!
I learnt a lot from plain History books we read at school, for example. They give you a lot of background knowledge which then you can enlarge reading more specific books. I think that when someone promises a "new documented version of 'so and so' and the Reich", for example, there's nothing new in it and as for 'documented', hmmmm ... :rolleyes: And probably the 'so and so' is either unknown or of little or no importance.
One book I recommend to you is Churchill's biography published by his personal doctor, Lord Moran. I found it very interesting.
Take care!
Alejandro
 
sesa said:
Beside the books that have been mentioned here already, do any of you know of any other titles that my be out there to educate myself on this subject. As I mentioned earlier, I have chosen to remain blissfully ignorant all these years, but now this subject intrigues me, mainly because I'm finally seeing a different side of Nazi Germany than those that have been painted and told all these years. Not to mention that I never knew that any of the RF's had anything to do with it. The only thing I really know is about the Jews and how and why they got to the concentration camps and what became of them once they got there.
Any suggestions are welcome, and I'm sorry if I offend anyone by asking. Please keep in mind that I basically know nothing of this subject, so it would really need to be a basic primer so that I can understand the whom what, when, when, where, and why of things before I move on to others that have been mentioned.
Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...

I've found the Berlin Diary to be a fascinating book of the day-to-day life of an aristocrat in Nazi Germany. It was written by Missie Vassiltchikova, a Russian who was working in the German Foreign Office and was associated with many who were in the plot to assassinate Hitler. Since this is her actual diary from the time, its a pretty accurate portrayal of at least what one person was thinking during the war.
 
Alejandro & Ysbel, thank you very much for your suggestions. It is definately a good place to start.
I find it unbelievable how my interest has been sparked by this thread. Who would have thought after all these years of being out of school that I would finally want to read something about this!
thanks again!:)
 
sesa said:
Alejandro & Ysbel, thank you very much for your suggestions. It is definately a good place to start.
I find it unbelievable how my interest has been sparked by this thread. Who would have thought after all these years of being out of school that I would finally want to read something about this!
thanks again!:)
Click to expand...
You're welcome!:)
I hope you enjoy your reading! :)
Alejandro
 
Obituary

Off-topic from the Hessian Princes, but something relevant to the discussion of royal/noble activities during the Third Reich. Here are extracts from a much longer obituary published in today's Sydney Morning Herald, from the Telegraph, London.

Countess Nina von Stauffenberg - 1913-2006

Nina Countess Schenk von Stauffenberg, who has died aged 92, was the widow of the German officer who attempted to assassinate Adolf Hitler with a bomb in July 1944; along with her husband's co-conspirators, she bore the brunt of the Fuhrer's thirst for revenge in the weeks after the attack.

She was born Elisabeth Magdalena, Baroness von Lerchenfeld, in Kaunas, then in Russia, but now in Lithuania, in 1913. She married Count Claus Schenk von Stauffenberg in 1933. Like him, her family was of the Bavarian nobility although his was Catholic and rather more distinguished.

By 1940 the Count's attitude to Hitler had changed markedly from his initial position of general support, influenced in particular by Hitler's suppression of the church. From the autumn of 1943 onwards he decided to kill the Fuhrer, and his dynamism animated a circle of like-minded officers, aristocrats and officials who had hitherto offered only passive opposition to the regime. The Count's elder brother Count Berthold also joined the conspiracy.

After the failure of the assassination attempt Count Claus was shot almost immediately in the couryard of the Army headquarters in Berlin. Heinrich Himmler directed that all von Stauffenberg relatives, from his infant children to his distant cousins, be arrested and their property confiscated. Count Berthold was hanged a few weeks later while Nina, who was pregnant, was interrogated and imprisoned in Berlin.

The Countess was then sent to Ravensbruck concentration camp, as was her mother, who subsequently perished. Although her guards had orders to kill her, Countess Nina was eventually liberated by Allied troops and reunited with her children.
 
I have the book and have only skimmed through the pages but there were quite a few princes in the Nazi Party as noted in appendix I: High Nobility in the Nazi Party.
 
susan alicia said:
Jessica, a vocal Communist, eloped with a notorious cousin who was also a nephew of Winston Churchill;

(from amazon.com)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393324141/ref=pd_sim_b_1/103-6204784-8535822?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155

this is a great serie, shows haow nancy mitford modeled the characters in the radlett family on her own
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0278548/
Click to expand...
I've read the biography by Lovell, and I liked her comprehensive account of the Mitfords' lives very much. You cannot help but admire Decca (no, no, I am not a Communist, although I am Russian! :)) for her determination and perseverance.
 
I finally bought the book Royals and the Reich today from Barnes & Noble bookstore. Hopefully I'll be able to finish it by Sunday and give my personal review of this "popular history" (not to be confused with scholarly history; by "popular" I mean a book geared towards the public masses not academic historians... completely different when it comes to writing style, etc. This doesn't mean scholars will throw this book's credibility aside, but a majority of them wouldn't give it much credit dispite the fact the author is a Prof. at Claremont McKenna) book.

:)
 
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kerry said:
I have the book and have only skimmed through the pages but there were quite a few princes in the Nazi Party as noted in appendix I: High Nobility in the Nazi Party.
Click to expand...
Hi Kerry!
"Recalling when royalty and the Nazis marched in step"
Could you mention some other "Royals" who belonged to the Nazi Party according to the book, apart from these Hessian brothers? They are all quite unknown to me. :(
Thanks in advance!
Alejandro
 
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redfox6 said:
It reads as a fair and balanced review. Thank you. It is something, I believe, they would all like to hide under the rug.
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Are there any still alive? I mean, the ones who "would like to hide under the rug". :D
Alejandro
 
Hereditary Prince Alfred Ernst Lowenstein-Werthheim-Freudenberg born 19 Sep 1924 joined on 27 Sep 1942. I believe he's still alive. There are 10 pages of High Nobility in the Nazi Party so I would have to search the names and dates of birth to see if they are still among the living. But there are plenty of princely/noble houses listed. Here are just a few:

Hohenlohe-Langenburg
Leiningen
Lippe
Coburg-Gotha-Sachsen
Lippe-Schaumburg
Schonberg
Thurn und Taxis
Wied

Most were born in the late 1800s but there are some born as late as 1923-24. A lot of princesses and countesses listed, too.
 
kerry said:
...There are plenty of princely/noble houses listed...
Click to expand...
Thank you, Kerry!
Now I'll do my "homework" and see if I can find out which members of those families joined the Nazi Party. :cool:
What do you think of the book as a whole? Has it got reliable sources, bibliography, etc.?
Take care! :)
Alejandro
 
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I just picked this book up. The reviews have been very positive. I'm looking forwarded to reading it.
 
I looked for this book today when I was at Barnes & Noble, but I didn't see it. I'm going to have to see if its in Borders but if its not, then I guess I'll buy it online (of course I've been saying that for months now :D).
 
I ordered from Amazon.com.

My knowledge of German history is limited. The Introduction section of this book does a very good job in providing basic information regarding an overall view of the royal houses and their transtition from WWI to WWII.
 
I just finished the book. It is very well documented and well written.

I think the family of those mentioned will be pleased with it.
 
After reading some of the comments, I could not hold my tongue. I was not alive then, nor am I a scholar of the incidents. I guess no one really knows what happened back then behind closed doors, maybe even with threats lying on your head. Just knowing the outcome for speaking may have kept many silent. Remember, Hitler even had youth turn in their parents. It was a horrible time, and I cannot even begin to consider what I may or may not have done had I been in their shoes.

What I see as terribly wrong is how the children of those in question are treated. For example, the children of Prince Christoph of Hesse. Prince Christoph's oldest child was only 10 when their father died. Yet, when the children of his wife, Princess Sophie, are mentioned, many times only the children of her second marriage are mentioned. It is as if the other children don't even matter. As if they have to be chastised for the actions (factual or not) of their father.

Someone can only be held accountable for their own actions, because no one can control the family they are born into. As far as I know, they have done no wrong. In the wedding of Princes Irina, Daughter of Prince Karl, even the reporters overlooked her actual family for the more mentioned children of Princess Sophie with the Prince of Hanover. I always thought the bride’s family was most important at a wedding.

I cannot change anything that history has already marked, but I know that we as a society can learn to give value to people for who they are, not for where they come from. I don't hold accountable the descendents of even Hitler, if there are any, because they cannot be blamed for what cruelty he committed (and Hitler's cruelty is proven). Sophie's children with Prince Christoph and their families seem like lovely people.
 
I would like to throw a question into the pot, which has had me skeptical of so many comments and books.

In the United States all orders are signed by the officer in charge. If the royals of Germany had so much power, why is it that in the trials of the Nazi regime, their signatures don't show up?
 
World War I weakened Germany as a world power. It also weakened the power and influence of Germany royalty. Had Germany royalty been a very powerful social and political influence or a powerhouse to reckon with or had a German monarch who was very powerful, someone like Hilter probably would have been quashed if he tried to take control of Germany. A powerful or strong leader or families would see that Hilter was a threat to their country and their power and act accordingly. They didn't have this type of power.

Since the Nazi Regime wanted to know everyone's business, I'm sure that they knew the secrets of German royalty as well as other royalty. Those tried at Nuremburg would have nothing to lose by telling these secrets if they knew them which may or may have had anything to do with the Nazi Regime but might be embarrassing to these families. I don't know if this had anything to do with why German royals signatures were not on documents in the Nazi trials. Perhaps there were other reasons.

The fact that some German royals were imprisoned, murdered and put into camps indicates that their power was very limited or in some cases non-existent.
 
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