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  #21  
Old 03-10-2006, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I think also we have to remember that National Socialism was a wonderful new theory in Germany. It was brilliant and people followed because it brought the ordinary German success and prosperity. It was only after the war that the holocaust was actually revealed, so people who were in the party, the Pope and Prince Philip's relatives included, would have seen only good in Nazism.
Well, interesting idea -- but I think that like most things, people only see and acknowledge what they want. I certainly was not born back then, but I would have to think that at least some of the ordinary Germans knew what was going on, in spite of all the wonderous things that they may have benifitted from because of it. And even while it may not have been that they themselves were visiting camps and all, and that at least a few ordinary people knew what was going on politically -- I would think it abit of a stretch that ordinary people would have known absolutely nothing at all and were innocent/ignorant of what would have been happening in their own country. But of course, that's just my own opinion, I was not there, so I would not have a personal experience of that.

This is just a question, not mean to offend anyone but only to inquire on the context of the above posting -- would that mean then that those stories I heard about other ordinary people being taken away or being forced to wear ceetain identifying markers and things like that would have happened away from the view of ordinary people, but occured only in very select areas and not really widespread around the country and out in the open?

Again, my question is a mere inquiry and actually an invitation for someone/anyone to educate me more on the subject if they would know -- I mean no offence to anyone.
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  #22  
Old 03-10-2006, 08:13 PM
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Well people had to wear yellow, pink and red stars AFAIK. And yes, there were Aryan-only areas. Jews were restricted from doing alot, so the German people would have seen it.
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  #23  
Old 03-10-2006, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Well people had to wear yellow, pink and red stars AFAIK. And yes, there were Aryan-only areas. Jews were restricted from doing alot, so the German people would have seen it.
What is AFAIK?

And I do understand your point about the idea being, in theory, one that was well recieved, at least in the beginning (I think that's what you mean -- if not, please do correct me) for what it seemed to offer, I mean the percieved benefits, not really the bad things
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  #24  
Old 03-10-2006, 08:23 PM
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AFAIK : As far as I know

That is what I meant. And to be honest, Hitler was such an inspiring man and was a great orator so he could make you believe anything - and people did. Listen to his speeches sometime - they make your spine tingle.
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  #25  
Old 03-10-2006, 08:27 PM
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Just wondering but isn't this book out already? I was just looking on Barnes & Noble & there is a book with the same name (or at least pretty close)- Royals and the Reich: The Princes von Hessen in Nazi Germany
This book came out in Feb. 2006
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  #26  
Old 03-10-2006, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
AFAIK : As far as I know

That is what I meant. And to be honest, Hitler was such an inspiring man and was a great orator so he could make you believe anything - and people did. Listen to his speeches sometime - they make your spine tingle.
Yes, I've heard commentators say that he had alot of charisma, which helped him to gain popularity, and he probably said alot of the things that people wanted to hear or needed to hear about themselves.

Politicians today bank on their own charisma as well to get what they want, which could also be a scary thing if people today are not careful and vigilant, I think.
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  #27  
Old 03-10-2006, 09:25 PM
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I'm sorry, but what is the name of this book that is due out soon?
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  #28  
Old 03-10-2006, 10:57 PM
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i dont buy anyone who says that people (ordinary or not) didnt know about the holocaust and the abuse prior to that. ofcourse many knew and some didnt. many chose to turn a blind eye which was understandable. in the beggining nazism was well recieved not only bec of Hitler's charisma but also bec of deteriorating economic conditions in germany of that time. nazism provided a solution (or so believed) to those problems. I hope this book is informative rather than to simply shame or embarass royals.
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  #29  
Old 03-11-2006, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillia
This is just a question, not mean to offend anyone but only to inquire on the context of the above posting -- would that mean then that those stories I heard about other ordinary people being taken away or being forced to wear certain identifying markers and things like that would have happened away from the view of ordinary people, but occured only in very select areas and not really widespread around the country and out in the open?

Again, my question is a mere inquiry and actually an invitation for someone/anyone to educate me more on the subject if they would know -- I mean no offence to anyone.
It happened mainly in the poorer areas to start with, I don't think the 'better' areas were as affected.

The royals concerned were just ordinary people, trying to survive and just like ordinary people now, couldn't believe that anyone could possibly be so wicked. If you are incapable of such an atrocity yourself, It is beyond your belief that anyone else could do such things.
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  #30  
Old 03-11-2006, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michelleq
I'm sorry, but what is the name of this book that is due out soon?
"Royals and the Reich: the Princes von Hessen in Nazi Germany."
See Lady Jennifer's post #25 below for more detail.
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  #31  
Old 03-11-2006, 11:20 AM
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The book received 5 stars from Amazon.com so besides my interest from the posts by you guys, I'd say its going to be an enlightening read. I'm going to be out and about today and if I don't find it at one of my local bookstores then I will be ordering from Amazon tonight.
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  #32  
Old 03-11-2006, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I think also we have to remember that National Socialism was a wonderful new theory in Germany. It was brilliant and people followed because it brought the ordinary German success and prosperity. It was only after the war that the holocaust was actually revealed, so people who were in the party, the Pope and Prince Philip's relatives included, would have seen only good in Nazism.
Do you think the propaganda actually concealed the holocaust and what are the chances that the royals did not know about it?
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  #33  
Old 03-11-2006, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Do you think the propaganda actually concealed the holocaust and what are the chances that the royals did not know about it?
It's possible. I believe that the ordinary Germans were told that the Jews were in Labour camps or were being sent away to be transported to other countries. Very few people knew about them being killed - and those who lived nearby either worked in the camps or were moved out and troops moved in.
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  #34  
Old 03-11-2006, 02:32 PM
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any thoughts about what the followers of Hitler did to lovely men like the one portrayed by marcello mastroianni in:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076085/

wonder if that makes your spine tingle too.




Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
AFAIK : As far as I know

That is what I meant. And to be honest, Hitler was such an inspiring man and was a great orator so he could make you believe anything - and people did. Listen to his speeches sometime - they make your spine tingle.
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  #35  
Old 03-11-2006, 02:34 PM
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Not sure what you mean Susan_Alicia.
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  #36  
Old 03-11-2006, 02:47 PM
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I agree with Beatrixfan, from what I know of Hitler that he was a man with the gift to inspire and draw people to believe him. He provided a vision and inspired people who were in absolute desperation because of the aftermath of WW1.

But I want to emphasis that he was a man who used his gift and talent to evil evil means, so awful that I wonder if anyone could have had enough courage to stand up to him even if they knew exactly what was going on. I identify zero with the propaganda ideals but I have to admit, this man was a genius when it came to manipulating people.

I can't make up my mind yet to what extent the royals were to blame and how big a part they played. But history belong to the victors and I am not sure whether there is ever any unbiased views as such.
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  #37  
Old 03-11-2006, 03:08 PM
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Recently there have been discussions in swedish press about prince Gustav Adolf (father of the present King) and his relations with germany. He was married to Sibylla, born in Germany in a noble family. Her father was a nazi and friends with Hitler.
Per Svennsson writes in the book "Han som aldrig fick bli kung" that the circle that the prince belonged to often sympathized with Hitler, but that it is impossible to say if the prince had nazi sympaties
Nina Eldh at the swedish royal court says:
I dont know if the prince ever said anything that could imply that he symapthized with the nazis

There was a photo published where the prince is seen giving money to a nazi at some social event in Berlin 1939


photo from expressen

http://expressen.se/index.jsp?a=541796
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  #38  
Old 03-11-2006, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melissajames
But history belong to the victors and I am not sure whether there is ever any unbiased views as such.
Thank you melissajames, but as a German I have to say that concerning the Nazi-crimes and murders there can only one view: they were evil. Absolutely evil. Evilly planned and evilly conducted. The details are proven and the judgment should be clear.

But - I believe that a lot of Germans are honest when they say they didn't realize what was going on.

To make this more clear - let me write down a purely invented scenario. Please believe me that I don't want to slander anybody! What I write now is just a secenario to give you an idea about what happened then in Germany.

Imagine the American government ordering American soldiers/CIA-agents to torture citizens of Arab states that are in American custody.

Pictures like the infamous Abu Ghiarab-pictures leak to the press. The government pretends innocence. Anybody, especially their own people are not able to grab what is actually going on and believe their government.

Years later another party forms the government and publishes all the information about the former government's involvement and planning of these things, which are considered evil by now.

Just a scenario, please remember. NOw: what do you think: should the average American feel guilty even though he saw the media reports about torture but believed his own government to be incapable of ordering such evil doings?

I think noone can blame "the average" American. No one can blame "the average" German. it's a very compley and personal question of guilt, of believes, of not wanting to get information, of not wanting to believe information, of not be able to believe things.... Well, that's what life is all about.

Let's be thankful that we do have the media to find out the truth (or parts of it) for us and to publish it.

Then the
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  #39  
Old 03-11-2006, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
"Royals and the Reich: the Princes von Hessen in Nazi Germany."
See Lady Jennifer's post #25 below for more detail.
Thanks again Warren! I can actually read, even though I may not be able to prove it per some of my post!

LOL!!!
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  #40  
Old 03-11-2006, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
Where did you find that Prince Aschwin of Lippe-Biesterfield was a hardcore nazi supporter?
Well Aschwin was an officer of the German Army in WWII so he must have agreed with some of Hitler ideals, he had many conversations with his brother and never told him anything or asked for help in case he wanted to deflect Germany and the Nazi Party.

I found some links to that:
http://crossword.telegraph.co.uk/new.../ixportal.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@lis.../msg37352.html

I'm not completely sure I believe that but I want to know your opinions about this articles and stuff
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