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  #21  
Old 10-31-2008, 02:57 PM
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Does anyone actually believe that the King did not know exactly what was in this book before it was released? I believe he HAD to give his approval in advance and just maybe he agreed. Of course we will NEVER know the facts to everything -- just read with a grain of salt and believe the parts you like and disregard the ones that you don't -- what the rest of the world will do anyway.
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  #22  
Old 11-01-2008, 09:21 PM
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Another article discussing the recent interview of Queen Sofia

Queen reveals food fight with Moroccan King
Quote:
The Spanish royals seldom let down their guard, but Queen Sofia has offered an unusual insight into the mean world of Mediterranean diplomacy by accusing the former king of Morocco of feeding her meat, even though he knew she was a vegetarian. ...
Queen reveals food fight with Moroccan king - Times Online
I agree with Marengo's views on the interview situation (see posts #14 and #16).
Quote:
"Very curious how somebody who is usually considered the perfect queen could make such a gaffe. They usually say that the Spanish queen is respected but not loved, I guess this interview will not change much of the unloved-part but she will be less respected by many, that is for sure"
Quote:
She is entitled to her views of course, and they can even be called surprisingly progressive for a conservative rich woman of 69, but she should not have expressed them in public.I think that the British and Belgian monarch are the wisest in these things: never give an interview, never.
I am greatly surprised that ever-impeccable Queen Sofia has made a decision to reveal too much or has been persuaded into doing so. Pundits and various journalists are likely to start creatively interpreting her words.
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  #23  
Old 11-02-2008, 02:30 AM
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This is going to be bad for the Spanish Monarchy.I have been a big fan of Her Majesty the Queen Dona Sofia for a long while.I loved her elegance and grace and right Royal discretion,which was like a shinning beacon of light in this age of dark and danky royal tell-alls.Now she too was drawn to do this!And in all times!After all those anti-Monarchy bruhahas last year.I still like the Queen of Spain,but I am sorry,but I am turned off!Her comments sound like discrimination.She is a Queen and the second top representative of the Monarchy.She is suppose to unify all her subjects not alienate them!They be straight,gay,lesbian ,transgendered,or bisexual they are all Spaniards and children of God,and she is their Queen!On the first Urbano book I remember and I still re-read it today,a quote from the Queen that touched me deeply.I will write by memory and it went a little something like,"Monarchy is not soley for Monarchists or the rich,but for all.Service for all"And by that I hope she meant for the Monarchists,the Rich,the poor and the GAYS!
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  #24  
Old 11-02-2008, 09:44 AM
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Is this book actually released yet. Does anyone know if it will be in the US also. In English?
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  #25  
Old 11-02-2008, 03:29 PM
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I've done some cleanup and am reopening the thread in the hope that the conversation can stay on topic.

Please note that this thread is to discuss the book and whether it was wise of Queen Sofia to comment on the record about controversial social issues. It isn't a thread to discuss the social issues themselves and whether you agree or disagree with the Queen's stand on abortion or gay marriage or whatever else she was talking about - it's a thread to discuss, in the context of this book, her decision to go public with her opinions. Further posts attempting to rekindle these disagreements about abortion and gay marriage will be edited or deleted, and if the thread can't stay on topic it'll be closed permanently.

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  #26  
Old 11-03-2008, 01:47 PM
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I would have thought that given the rough past of the Spanish Royal Family, they might do like the Dutch and keep their personal views on potentially explosive topics to themselves rather than broadcasting them to the general public.

In some ways, they do represent an entire country. And while that country might be very Roman Catholic, and as such the majority of the people might stand against homosexuality, abortion, etc, I think that it is wrong for someone who stands as a figure head for the population to come out and show contempt for any other part of the population. She in some ways speaks for the entire country, although not officially, and as such her publicly expressed views should reflect that.
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  #27  
Old 11-03-2008, 06:42 PM
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I esteem her more now because I can see her as a human being and not like the perfect queen XIXth century style, like Queen Mary, so distant and cold; or like a Stepford wife: now she is for real, flesh and blood. It seems to me that people with royal heads of state are too demanding, they continue seeing them as perfect gods.

Very good she talked about her husband´s infidelities. I have spent decades reading articles about people meeting Queen Sofía alone in London (I mean without her husband) and looking sad, feeling lonely. It happened to that writer from Vanity Fair, Dominick Dunne.

I respect and like her more now. I have always criticized her for the rejection to Isabel Sartorius. Now I can see she is like many mothers, not even aristocrats, let alone queens, that do not find anybody good enough for her "princes".
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  #28  
Old 11-03-2008, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post

Again, everyone is entitled to their opinion but very unwise to do such controversial statements. Her comments about gays - "those people" - are plain rude and discriminating.

¿Sofia, por qué no te callas?
Well, IMO there's nothing wrong with her calling "those people" to gays

If Pilar had asked her "What do you think about those volunteers who help poor and sick people in Africa?" the Queen would say "I think those people are wonderful, etc etc".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
lula I was quoting the article I attached earlier:
Explosivas confesiones de Doña Sofía por su 70 cumpleaños - ESD

It says "¿Está a favor del aborto?" - "En absoluto" - this does not sound to me like opposition.
Duke, I understand your doubt because the same happened with me too . I misunderstood the expression. "En absoluto" doesn't mean "Absoultely". It means "Absolutely not".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
She is sorry for making people feel upset but obviously stands by her comments, so..
The Queen is entitled to her views of course, and they can even be called surprisingly progressive for a conservative rich woman of 69, but she should not have expressed them in public. I think that the British and Belgian monarch are the wisest in these things: never give an interview, never.
I agree it's wisest. At least they won't face any polemic debate about their words. I think what was wrong with Sofia's declarations was not the fact she is against abortion and gay's marriage. She's a devout Christian, I wouldn't expect anything different from her... As I don't expect that any Muslim King ever says "I am for gay's marriage"... People have faith and their faith should not be a reason to feel ashamed.

What I think that was not good from her was the way she explained herself... Probably she sounded too judgemental. But well, I believe she was talking as "Sofia" and not as "queen Sofia".

--

I think the denial by the court is pathetic. Pilar Urbano is known for her professionalism and dedication. She would never write anything different from what the Queen said to her.

About Sofia talking about the extramarital affairs of her husband... that is too tacky! I am surprised with her talking about these issues... That's something so private.

I might understand why she talked about her personal opinions (and she was very brave doing so) but talking about her husband's intimate life is too much, IMO. She didn't need to embarrassed herself like that :(

P.S. I can't wait to buy this book!
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  #29  
Old 11-04-2008, 05:01 AM
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Some more articles in English.

The Queen said "it's tough to stay silent" and maybe after 70 years it was too much too bear. I will never understand why Sofia - in her position as Queen consort - felt the need to discuss any topic that people are talking about on the streets. Mentioning ethics and politics is a no-no for royals because it is a very personal decision to every member of society and taking sides can only lead into controversy what is not a royal's job but a politician's.

"It is impossible (for the queen) to represent all Spaniards if (she) sides with what (only) some of them think," the daily El Pais said in an editorial.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2008/1104/1225523342052.html

Queen's outburst sparks debate about monarchy in Spain - Feature : Europe World

Furthermore, to start babbling about (dead) fellow royals, in this case the late King Hassan II of Marroco, is very bad style I never would have expected from Sofia. She claims that he tricked her into eating meat as a vegetarian when visiting his country. What's the point of coming up with such childish stories 9 years after his death, offending the MRF?

Queen Sofia's Moroccan 'nightmare'

But casa real's denial beats everything - contradicting your own biographer who was invited to have conversation sessions, how ridiculous can it get?
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  #30  
Old 11-04-2008, 05:56 AM
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I think there was another biography published a few days before this one, basically with many simular statements. So to claim that the Queen didn't say it all is nonsense. Of course the author is now using all this to get as much publicity for her book and for her Opus Dei views, which is not very nice either, but that is the way the world works and it is not surprising that even Opus Dei members are not imune to low behavior .

I think by expressing her opinion the Queen has indeed endangered the neutral role of the monarchy. The main advantage of a monarchy these days is that they are not associated to a political party and can function as a neutral focus for the nation, usually supported by 80-90% of the people (no president ever had that). By expressing opinions as being against the war in Iraq, against abortion (also for rape victims), euthenasia, gay marriage etc. etc. that neutrality is no more and HM will be placed in the corner of the ultra conservatives. Now the ultra conservatives are happy probably, but the rest of the country is not.

Anyway, if this is the only time that this happens the Spanish monarchy will survive but if she or other members of the RF do this more often it will only help those who want a Spanish republic. For the moment the damage is mostly personal, the Queens reputation will be changed in the eyes of many people, and not for the better. Only the ultra catholics will rejoice in this queen.

Sadly this trend of messing with the terms of neutrality is not only visible by this gaffe of the Queen of Spain, also in other monarchies people say they do not mind royals expressing their opinions and in my own country the PM himself said that they should be able to do so. Only they forget that although a majority think that royals should be able to express their opinion that same majority might not agree with the personal opinions of a royal and every time a royal expresses an opinion about ethical and political issues a great number of people will feel insulted.

--
To Regina: I am not sure to what extend the Queens religious values go, but since she converted out of opportunism to the church of Rome I tend to take those strong religious feelings with a pinch of salt. And indeed she sounded judgemental, but that can also have to do with the way things were written down, selective quoting for example. And as you say her views are not that surprising considering she is an elderly lady from the upperclass, immune for feminism and other social movements. As she does not mind a divorcee as a daughter-in-law I suppose they can even be called remarkably 'modern' at some points.
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  #31  
Old 11-04-2008, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina View Post
Well, IMO there's nothing wrong with her calling "those people" to gays

If Pilar had asked her "What do you think about those volunteers who help poor and sick people in Africa?" the Queen would say "I think those people are wonderful, etc etc".
I think it depends on when the expression is used and how. But if I would say 'that woman' all the time when talking about queen Sofia it would be rather obvious that it is to show contempt.
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  #32  
Old 11-04-2008, 06:23 AM
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In the Belgian Newspaper no word about her birthday but only a few small sentences and title : "Homosexuel marriage should not be told marriage".
How sad !
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  #33  
Old 11-04-2008, 06:30 AM
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Well, that is her own fault. As Harry of Wales will be reminded of the 'Harry the Nazi' act until eternity, and other royals will be known for their gaffe's, the queen of Spain will be known as being one of those anti-everything (save anti-semitist) for the rest of her life and afterwards. I already have heard her called a 'gay hater' on television twice, a hate monger in general and called 'the Spanish awnser to Sarah Palin'. Out of context and untrue perhaps but that is what happens when these things make it to entertainment programmes, boulevard magazines, onine newspapers, blogs, forums etc. Queen Sofia should have known that.

As I said, if this gaffe will be a single event it will not harm the institute of the monarchy in Spain but only the queen herself.

---------
I read in comments at various other forums, blogs etc. that HM also stated she believed in creationism. Does anybody know if she made any comment on this issue?
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  #34  
Old 11-04-2008, 07:34 AM
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You are right Marengo , as professional Queen she should know that.
What happened with our Queen Paola yesterday in India (see the Forum) is really unfair from her.
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  #35  
Old 11-04-2008, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
I read in comments at various other forums, blogs etc. that HM also stated she believed in creationism. Does anybody know if she made any comment on this issue?
The Queen said she believes schools should teach Religion, at least for the younger students. According to her, children need an explanation about the origins of the world and life.

So, I think the queen believes in Creationism.
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  #36  
Old 11-04-2008, 09:00 AM
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The real matter is this: has a Sovereign or a Prince/Princess to be impartial at all, or can he/she be a "human being"? If he/she is impartial is often judged far from his people, if he/she sometimes express his/her opinion obviously he/she displeases someone...In both situations is criticized.
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  #37  
Old 11-05-2008, 10:52 AM
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Spanish author Pilar Urbano poses by a poster of the cover of her new book about Spain's Queen Sofia in Madrid on October 30, 2008. This is Urbano's second book on the queen.
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  #38  
Old 11-05-2008, 11:12 AM
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some more from belga when launching her second book about Sofia 'La Reina, muy de cerca'

BelgaPicture - Advanced search

Pilar Urbano is a woman of the Queen's generation (born 1940, two years younger) and wrote her first book about Sofia in 1997, 'La Reina'. She even sports a similar oldfashioned hairdo, although not as polished.

To allow a person to write a second book shows a lot of trust therefore claiming that some remarks were inaccurate is ridiculous. Both women must know each other well. I doubt there will be a third book, after all this Sofia probably will not only think twice before speaking publicly again.
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  #39  
Old 11-05-2008, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Furthermore, to start babbling about (dead) fellow royals, in this case the late King Hassan II of Marroco, is very bad style I never would have expected from Sofia. She claims that he tricked her into eating meat as a vegetarian when visiting his country. What's the point of coming up with such childish stories 9 years after his death, offending the MRF?

Queen Sofia's Moroccan 'nightmare'
If all other royals could talk about the pleasant encounters in their biography, why couldn't Sofia talk about her unpleasant ones ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
To Regina: I am not sure to what extend the Queens religious values go, but since she converted out of opportunism to the church of Rome I tend to take those strong religious feelings with a pinch of salt. And indeed she sounded judgemental, but that can also have to do with the way things were written down, selective quoting for example. And as you say her views are not that surprising considering she is an elderly lady from the upperclass, immune for feminism and other social movements. As she does not mind a divorcee as a daughter-in-law I suppose they can even be called remarkably 'modern' at some points.
She might be 'modern' in some aspects, but not 'modern' enough to accept a marriage of two men or two women, isn't this happening to lots of people in today's society ? The gay lobby in Spain is very strong and always makes lots of noise, if she had avoided this subject, she would not have gotten herself into such a mess.
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  #40  
Old 11-06-2008, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
If all other royals could talk about the pleasant encounters in their biography, why couldn't Sofia talk about her unpleasant ones ?
Keeping in mind how strained the relations to Marocco are anyway (Ceuta & Melilla) it's a very unwise move by the Queen to engage herself in politics (accusing the current King of "tricking" JC or revealing stories about the late King of Marocco, annoying the MRF) - the last subject Sofia should voice an opinion on in her position as Queen consort.

Same on the "gay" issue, she should not forget that "those people", how she called them, pay for the lifestyle of the SRF as members of the Spanish society. I would have expected more open-mindness from Sofia to be honest, now she comes across as hypocritical and narrowminded.

I bet if her son Felipe had married the royal or noble girl she wanted for him in the first place Sofia would have voiced a negative opinion on divorce too - but with a divorced daughter in law it's being labelled "modern", of course. And if one of the members of the SRF or the wider Borbon family came out as openly gay she probably would have labelled being gay as "modern", too.
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