The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Royal Highlights > Royal Library

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #201  
Old 12-11-2010, 01:36 PM
nascarlucy's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central Florida Area, United States
Posts: 1,349
Chances are if Jonas cheated on Madeline before they were married, he would continue to do so afterward. He got caught, plain and simple. The King affairs didn't become public knowledge until recently.

If the rumors were correct and Jonas did father a child, the child's mother would probably be taking him to court for child support. I don't know what the laws are in Sweden regarding this (I would imagine if it was proven that he was the father, then he would be required to pay child support). If he didn't pay it or it wasn't paid, then he would risk being exposed, even if it was kept secret. When you get married, this is not something that you would want to have to deal with.

I have yet to see this story in any American media.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #202  
Old 12-11-2010, 06:59 PM
Karisma's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kristianstad, Sweden
Posts: 371
In Sweden, you do not go to court to get maintenance. Displays a paternity test that someone is a biological father of a child care social insurance system to ensure that the custodian to pay maintenance. Even the Father may be guardians and then mother to pay maintenance. One can also have joint custody and when the children live alternately with their parents.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #203  
Old 12-12-2010, 09:44 AM
Esmerelda's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karisma View Post
How credible is Camilla Henemark really? The former Army Of Lover member Camilla Henemark alleged love affair with King raises a series of questions:
If she was lying, why isn't the King denying anything? I don't admire her for telling her story to the whole world and the book may not be 100% true but in my opinion, the King is at least partially responsible for giving the authors 'fuel'.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #204  
Old 12-12-2010, 05:16 PM
Karisma's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kristianstad, Sweden
Posts: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esmerelda View Post
If she was lying, why isn't the King denying anything? I don't admire her for telling her story to the whole world and the book may not be 100% true but in my opinion, the King is at least partially responsible for giving the authors 'fuel'.
The authors call the book "Biography". There are literary demands for a book to be called a biography. The requirements are not met. HM the King has certainly been enough media adviser to help and then had to learn how to quickly take the edge off the rumors. I do not think it is done by the King himself says as much. Important are: King's friends would not recognize the contents of the book and refusing to data.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #205  
Old 12-12-2010, 06:13 PM
Karisma's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kristianstad, Sweden
Posts: 371
Publishers of the book

The book is intended as a biography, but also contains information on claims only supported by anonymous sources called "A", "B", "C", etc. A biography must , to be called a biography, have safe referencing. Otherwise, anyone can say anything about any man you want to smear and revile. We have been spared the kind of journalism in Sweden up until now.

The publication of a book about the king's private life is a decision that most publishers would naturally think one extra time. Nordstedts is one of the larger and more significant publishers in Sweden. Their non-fiction book publishers Per Faustino says that he himself would not have taken on such a book. "When it's only gossip that remains, and the book does not have a bearing on anything higher then it is too thin. Even if it is within the law, a publisher has to wonder what it would be."

It may be added that a co-author, Tove Meyer, has been suspended from a position at the Swedish Radio, which book launch is seen as a journalistic conflict of interest.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #206  
Old 12-12-2010, 08:05 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Francisco, United States
Posts: 2,042
It becomes irrelevant whether the book is called a biography or not. The King has been involved in some less than exemplary behavior. Too many people has know about this for many years. It is now general public knowledge. Just as the King said during his meeting with the press during a recent hunt, ...time to look forward and turn to a new page... (paraphrased)

The King's hardest job now is to patch up the relationship with Queen Silvia and that will only happen behind closed doors. They are both very skilled professionals and will carry on with their duties no matter how they feel. Most Swedes have moved on and consider the book just another blip on the radar.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #207  
Old 12-13-2010, 04:26 PM
Karisma's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kristianstad, Sweden
Posts: 371
Witchcraft trials

All citizens of a free democratic country has the right to request that others do not go around with untruths and gossip without evidence. King Carl Gustav can not be excluded. Whether you believe in gossip or not, it's not the one who was accused of having done anything to prove his innocence, but existing evidence lies with those who come with accusations and allegations. We do not have the system in the Western democracies that the person accused of something must submit evidence of their innocence, but there are those who accuse the others who will manage the demonstration. So does every Western constitutional states. The prosecutor must have evidence that is to prosecute. (See sources in a biography). How would it look if we could all be vulnerable to unsubstantiated rumors without any source was? How would our society look like? It would soon be back to medieval witchcraft trials, and there we do not want again.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #208  
Old 12-13-2010, 06:35 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Francisco, United States
Posts: 2,042
We are all vulnerable to unsubstantiated rumors and innuendos. In a perfect world everyone is truthful and honest. In the real world that is not always so. Protection of the innocent under the legal systems is never a one-way process.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #209  
Old 12-13-2010, 08:37 PM
nascarlucy's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central Florida Area, United States
Posts: 1,349
I've read many books on royalty, mostly British royalty. I could tell which books that were more official than others just by the contents of the book. I would imagine if the King Carl Gustaf had commissioned someone to write his biography it would read a lot differently than the unauthorized biography written about him. I would imagine these two books would be very different even though they are about the same person.

It's doubtful that the King if he did some of the things alleged in the book would volunteer this information to the public or the person commissioned to write a book about him. If the information was proven or so overwhelming that you couldn't sidestep the issue, then he probably would have to address the issue.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #210  
Old 12-14-2010, 02:30 PM
Karisma's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kristianstad, Sweden
Posts: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
We are all vulnerable to unsubstantiated rumors and innuendos. In a perfect world everyone is truthful and honest. In the real world that is not always so. Protection of the innocent under the legal systems is never a one-way process.
But none of us had hoped that judges and jurors have been replaced with gossip columnists...!!!???
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #211  
Old 12-14-2010, 07:14 PM
nascarlucy's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central Florida Area, United States
Posts: 1,349
A lot of times judges and jurors are influenced or swayed by public opinion. They deny it but they are. The record speaks for itself.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #212  
Old 12-15-2010, 12:50 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Francisco, United States
Posts: 2,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karisma View Post
But none of us had hoped that judges and jurors have been replaced with gossip columnists...!!!???
It doesn't matter what we are hoping for. No one looks good after a trial in regards to gossip and lies, be it in front of jurors or in the press.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #213  
Old 12-15-2010, 06:36 PM
Karisma's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kristianstad, Sweden
Posts: 371
I'm perhaps naive

Quote:
Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
A lot of times judges and jurors are influenced or swayed by public opinion. They deny it but they are. The record speaks for itself.
I think it's very different in different countries. When prosecutors are elected and there are those who get campaign money so it might be different than in the formal qualifications to decide? In an ideal world, the goddess of justice, Justitia, blindfolded. It will symbolize the equality of all the laws, therefore, that the court can not see who gets to the right. Balance Libra stands for justice, and the sword is a symbol of power. I choose, romantic as I am, to believe in a perfect world ...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #214  
Old 12-15-2010, 06:57 PM
Karisma's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kristianstad, Sweden
Posts: 371
Lack of evidence

Quote:
Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
It doesn't matter what we are hoping for. No one looks good after a trial in regards to gossip and lies, be it in front of jurors or in the press.
There is a big difference between justice done in court and the ruthless persecution by the tabloid press for exposing celebrities. A trial based on existing evidence presented. It is not enough to claim that they heard anything since it can be called hearsay. To lie means that you can receive punishment for perjury.

If I, an ordinary citizen, had been featured in the same manner as King Carl Gustav, without evidence, it would undoubtedly led to the author convicted of libel and giving me proper redress public and a huge amount of damages. In Sweden it is forbidden to write defamatory statements without refutation of "ordinary citizens" - but it's fine to say the same things about the Head of State. Is not it strange?

(I'm not as familiar with the legal terminology in English language and I apologize if this is the wrong word I use).
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #215  
Old 12-15-2010, 09:28 PM
Maura724's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Louis, United States
Posts: 772

Libel is the correct word. Libel is written defamation; slander is spoken.

But, if this book were about an "ordinary citizen," wouldn't that citizen have to sue in court before the author was convicted of anything? I'm not familiar with Swedish law, but I would assume that just writing something bad about an ordinary citizen wouldn't get you in trouble - the citizen would have to initiate some sort of legal action.

And isn't the King allowed to sue for libel as well? If not, then I agree it's weird and unfair. But I would think that the King, if he chose to, could sue over defamatory statements, and win his case if the statements were indeed false?

In the U.S., anybody can sue over libel. In order to win, you have to prove the statement was false and that it caused you harm. Public figures must prove both these things, as well as that the author was trying to cause harm with the statement. While there is an additional level required from a public figure, there is nothing preventing one from winning a libel case.

Are public figures like the King really not able to do so in Sweden?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #216  
Old 12-15-2010, 09:44 PM
Esmerelda's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maura724 View Post
.

And isn't the King allowed to sue for libel as well? If not, then I agree it's weird and unfair. But I would think that the King, if he chose to, could sue over defamatory statements, and win his case if the statements were indeed false?
He can sue. There was an announcement from the court shortly after the book came out that he would not.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #217  
Old 12-16-2010, 12:05 AM
MARG's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 4,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maura724 View Post
And isn't the King allowed to sue for libel as well? If not, then I agree it's weird and unfair. But I would think that the King, if he chose to, could sue over defamatory statements, and win his case if the statements were indeed false?
When it comes to gossip at this level the King cannot win. Like most ordinary people I am sure that he has made some unwise decisions and possibly even committed adultary. A public airing in court however, regardless of the outcome, would not only hurt the members of the SRF it would inevidably drag every single one of them through the mud in the witness stand thus giving the scandal rags a feast so rich as has never been seen before. It would also do irreprable damage not only to the monarchy of Sweden but could precipitate a constitutional crises for the nation.

So, unlike an ordinary citizen, the King has no choice but to swallow the bile and carry on as if nothing has happened. Not only is "the truth" irrelevant, but it was the first casualty of this war. And be under no illusions, not only is this war, but a war he could never win in open court!
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
Reply With Quote
  #218  
Old 12-16-2010, 04:37 AM
Karisma's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kristianstad, Sweden
Posts: 371
To “Esmeralda", "Maura724" and "MARG"

Tank You for an intersting discussion!

First, one must remember that His Majesty the King and Crown Princess can not be prosecuted in an ordinary court in accordance with the Swedish Constitution. They are "immune".

“Esmeralda: He can sue. There was an announcement from the court shortly after the book came out that he would not.”

Had the book been published in another country (original release), it is no doubt that the royal family had sued the publisher. Compare the writings in Germany against Princess Madeleine - the royal family sued the publishers and won it! In Sweden, then the whole media debate stifled all that the Royal Family do if you started a legal process and our Royal Court had been blocked by the issue for years.

"Maura724: Are public figures like the King really not able to do so in Sweden?"


Sweden have a state-appointed legal department that monitors the press, ethics (the Press Ombudsman - PO helps people who feel exposed to unwarranted publicity damage by what has been written about them in the newspapers ...)"
An "ordinary citizen" does not have to run a goal, but there is a single notification to the PO. "Marg:s" writing is very much consistent with my view of wiev. The only thing that would be achieved is more dirty tabloids and it will be like Don Quiote - a fight against windmills ...

"MARG: So, unlike an ordinary citizen, the King has no choice but to swallow the bile and carry on as if nothing has happened."

"Marg:s" writing is very much consistent with my point of view. The only thing that would be achieved is more dirty tabloids and it will be like Don Quiote - a fight against windmills ...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #219  
Old 12-30-2010, 04:03 PM
Sternchen's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: xxx, Germany
Posts: 1,282
You can preorder the book now at Amazon.

Carl XVI. Gustaf: Der widerwillige Monarch: Amazon.de: Thomas Sjöberg: Bücher
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #220  
Old 05-20-2011, 04:18 AM
Sternchen's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: xxx, Germany
Posts: 1,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlottestreasures View Post
Very interesting indeed. It just gets murkier and murkier.

Would love to read the book in English
I've read it in German, and there is nothing in it that hasn't been reported in by the press already when the book came out.
__________________

__________________
Soccer is a game for 22 people that run around, play the ball, and one referee who makes a slew of mistakes, and in the end Germany always wins.
Gary Lineker
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
carl gustav


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Prince Carl Philip, Current Events Part 3: January 2006 - GrandDuchess Prince Carl Philip 795 10-16-2014 12:07 PM
Swedish Royal Jewels of the Past Josefine Royal Jewels 521 10-16-2014 11:44 AM
Queen Beatrix, Current Events 6 (August 2010 - April 2013) Marengo Current Events Archive 532 05-01-2013 08:12 AM
The Duchess of Cambridge's Daytime Fashion Part 6: December 2011 - March 2012 dazzling Archives 394 03-03-2012 11:25 AM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth charlene crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events duchess of cambridge fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg nobility olympic games ottoman pom president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess anita princess astrid princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess letizia princess madeleine princess marilene princess mary princess mary fashion princess of asturias queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:09 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]