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  #61  
Old 04-06-2013, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
...The Crown Princely couple have got a choice of taking legal action against the authour.
hat's the problem: the Princes of Asturias do not have the option of suing the author. Not right now. A lawsuit amidst the ongoing Urdangarin case would be a huge mistake, and would draw even more unnecessary (and, in this case, undeserved) criticism towards the Royal House. I daresay David is perfectly aware of the fact, hence the timing of the book.

Personally I think a betrayal by a family member is always a despicable action, whatever others may think.
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  #62  
Old 04-06-2013, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
If the authour broke any laws, he should face the professional panel. One might assume that the authour was fully aware of the adverse legal/professional consequences the book might entail and took precautionary measures. He is a lawyer. The Crown Princely couple have got a choice of taking legal action against the authour.
You seem to suggest that freedom of speech is separate and apart from defamation, privacy laws and attorney-client privilege. This is not so - they are intertwined.

In this case arguably, he did not have to take precautionary measures because he knew he had the SRF in a catch 22. If they sue for defamation or violation of a right of privacy, they draw more attention to the matter and possibly open up a lot more of Letizia's private life to public scrutiny. In any event truth is a defense to defamation. The same considerations might apply with an ethics complaint, or perhaps he knew that there's a loophole, in Spain it's possible he can commit this breach without the possibility of injunctive relieve stopping the dissemination, or relief in the form of preventing him from seeing profits on the book sales.

You are correct that it's possible that what he did is not illegal, and that there is nothing that the SRF can to do stop the dissemination. That does not mean his conduct is not outrageous and traverses boundaries of human decency. But you seem to be congratulating this man for the fact that he can do it without facing legal repercussions.

This is not information that the public should be aware of, as in the case of brother-in-law Inaki, and there is no moral high ground for this man.
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  #63  
Old 04-06-2013, 03:46 PM
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The question is if indeed it was a client/lawyer relationship or if he was simply a family member giving legal advice. If he was not paid for his services I don't see how the CP couple could take legal actions against him for breaking the client/lawyer privilege.

Betraying a family member, probably out of revenge and greed, is of course a despicable thing to do.

But I do not agree that Letizia's pre-royal life and actions are nobody's business. You might as well say that Maxima's family background or Mette-Marit's drug taking are nobody's business but as a matter of fact they very much were everybody's business.
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  #64  
Old 04-06-2013, 03:58 PM
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Could anyone prove that the authour breached any laws in a court of law or in front of the bar? As I have said earlier, the authour has to be ready to face all the consequences (good or bad) for publishing his work.
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  #65  
Old 04-06-2013, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ricarda View Post
The question is if indeed it was a client/lawyer relationship or if he was simply a family member giving legal advice. If he was not paid for his services I don't see how the CP couple could take legal actions against him for breaking the client/lawyer privilege.
The law may be different in Spain, but as far as I know if a lawyer represents a client, it doesn't matter whether he is doing so for money, pro bono publico, or for other reasons (a favour to a family member): the client-lawyer privilege remains the same in all cases.
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  #66  
Old 04-06-2013, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
The law may be different in Spain, but as far as I know if a lawyer represents a client, it doesn't matter whether he is doing so for money, pro bono publico, or for other reasons (a favour to a family member): the client-lawyer privilege remains the same in all cases.
That's interesting. I didn't know that.
But still, he only "represented" Letizia regarding the prenup-arrangement. And I doubt they will sue him because of that rather harmless story.
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  #67  
Old 04-06-2013, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ricarda View Post
You mean it's not Letizia who is polarizing but the country which is polarized? That might be true but on the other hand e.g. Belgium is not a very united country as well, yet Mathilde does not have such a dividing effect.
Waaay different, if you allow me. I think Belgiam national division has nothing to do with Spain. As far as I know, in Belgium didnīt kill ones to anothers just 70 years ago.

Perhaps itīs neccessary to be an Spaniard to understand what that really means, but I think that taking that fact in account is totally essential to understand the social/political reality of this country.

There is a very huge gap between left and right in Spain. It impregnates everything. And of course, abortion is clearly a polarizer. But as you can guess, being a princess or a noblemanīs daughter would be another.

Either you are at one side or at another.

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I sometimes wonder if a gentle noble woman like Mathilde of Belgium or Stephanie of Luxembourg, well educated and with a profession but not particularly career-women, would have the same difficulties as Letizia. Perhaps they would not be that popular but also not that unpopular.
As I said previously, they wouldnīt IMO. Maybe they would be more popular between the older generations, but I can say people of my age usually likes Letizia. And they do precisely because of her career and political ideas. I donīt think a Mathilde or Stephanie would work between them.

And if I think about one of those ladies as queen of Spain, I remember my highly admired queen Maria Cristina of Habsbourg. She always was unimpeachable in everything, and what was the ironic nickname she received from Spaniards in payment? "Doņa Virtudes" (Ms. Virtues).

It seems that, in this ungrateful Spain, even being good enough isnīt good enough.
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  #68  
Old 04-06-2013, 07:59 PM
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I do not claim to know what 50 millions Spaniards think but the handfull I know (2 in their twenties and most of them unpolitical) does not share your opinion.

You say you are either left or right in Spain. But where is Letizia? Left, pretending to be right? Caught between two stools? Which are those political ideas of her you admire? The ones she had as a journalist? Does she still have them, does she express them? As I see it neither Left nor Right can really relate to her.

My problem with Letizia (or rather with the SRF) is that she made a 180 degree turn when becoming royal, at least in public. And obviously she was forced to do it because what she was (agnostic, ambitious, outspoken..) was considered as unappropriate for a princess and future queen by the royal house. Did she really change or is this just camouflage?
For me this resulted in a feeling of hypocricy regarding the SRF long before the revelations of the last year.
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  #69  
Old 04-06-2013, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Which are those political ideas of her you admire?
Where have I said I admire her ideas?
Iīve just expressed what I think is the general opinion about Letizia between people of my age. Of course all them donīt think the same, Iīm talking in general terms.

About Letiziaīs ideas, I think itīs quite obvious they were at the left at her young. She have had to kiss bishopīs rings and bow to the King, but to be fair she can have changed her mind. Everybody is entitled to do so. Maybe she regrets her abortion, if itīs true she ever had one. I donīt think she does, but there is a benefict of doubt.

I share your opinion, she was forced to change her opinions to become a royal. What else could she have done? Saying "No, thanks, I donīt care for this Catholic ****, I donīt want to be married by the Church"?
Or rather "Sorry, I donīt care if the protocol demands it, Iīm not going to bow to the King, because Iīm a republican"? Double

Either you take it or leave it. She chose to take it, so she had to assume the consecuences.

What do you mean with "your problem with SRF"? Don you really think that a republican, agnostic, etc could have spoken about it freely in any other royal house? That she wouldnīt have had to change her views? I would really like to know which one is that RH.

I really think that your trouble with that is with Monarchy (perfectly fair), then, not the SRF...
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  #70  
Old 04-06-2013, 08:34 PM
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Felipe could not have picked a better mate to help him in his position. Who would have worked as tirelessly for Spain as Letizia, and put up with all of this derision? Don't the people of Spain have better fish to fry with all of this corruption among their politicians, along with Inaki and Cristina? Perhaps Spain would have preferred a titled woman, just out of a convent, who doesn't do a darn thing all day but bear lazy, self-entitled royal brats. This is the 21st Century. People change their views or sometimes bury their views because they think in their role they can do something for the greater good.
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  #71  
Old 04-06-2013, 08:51 PM
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Falling in love can change your views on many things. I've seen pictures of Felipe and Letzia looking at each other that clearly say love.
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  #72  
Old 04-06-2013, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ricarda View Post
...

But I do not agree that Letizia's pre-royal life and actions are nobody's business. You might as well say that Maxima's family background or Mette-Marit's drug taking are nobody's business but as a matter of fact they very much were everybody's business.
At this point, it is nobody's business. They've been (apparently happily) married for nearly a decade, they are the future King and Queen, and one of their daughters will eventually be Queen in her own right. Nothing can be done to change what may or may not have happened, and any lengthy discussion will only bring trouble for Spain, its people, and lastly, Letizia and her family. How can what happened all those years ago matter now?
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  #73  
Old 04-07-2013, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ricarda View Post

My problem with Letizia (or rather with the SRF) is that she made a 180 degree turn when becoming royal, at least in public. And obviously she was forced to do it because what she was (agnostic, ambitious, outspoken..) was considered as unappropriate for a princess and future queen by the royal house. Did she really change .
H do not think she changed. I think this was the deal to accept her as bride, and she accepted a behavior defined by the palace. It is like when you got a new job. You accept the rules and the dress codes of the job, but you do not change inside.
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  #74  
Old 04-07-2013, 03:47 AM
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You are rîght. Felipe had twice the bad experience with the press who destroyed his relationship with Isabel Sartorius and Eva Sannum. He would not take the risk to have this again, especially with a bride like Letizia. So he did all to avoid this. Furthermore if it is true that he had very strong fightings with his parents, he could not fight 2 fronts in the meantime.
Unlike the other two women who is either foreign or not too smart, Letizia has always given Felipe much confidence and security. Since he was with Letizia, he has clearly known what he wants and has been standing firmly for it. He didn't have to agree with his parents all the time (it was his life, not his parents'), later also reflected on the divided family regarding the business of Cristina and Inaki.
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  #75  
Old 04-07-2013, 03:56 AM
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At Letizia's time Felipe was older and decided, not to let anyone interfere. As regards "it was his life" this is valid for private citizens not for a future King. The history, even the recent is full of examples of royals who sactrified their loves and their own lifes for the state interest. Hopefully the King did not ask Felipe to do this choice.
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  #76  
Old 04-07-2013, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricarda View Post
My problem with Letizia (or rather with the SRF) is that she made a 180 degree turn when becoming royal, at least in public. And obviously she was forced to do it because what she was (agnostic, ambitious, outspoken..) was considered as unappropriate for a princess and future queen by the royal house. Did she really change or is this just camouflage?
For me this resulted in a feeling of hypocricy regarding the SRF long before the revelations of the last year.
Agree 100%. I think most people never believed that Letizia changed her ideals but rather pretended to have changed in order to get become Princess of Asturias. You can call that hyprocritical or opportunist.

Letizia was possibly naive, had no idea what she was getting into. I'm pretty sure she completely misjudged her own freedom of mind and "career opportunities" within the family. I never thought she married Felipe for money or fame but to make another "professional career" on a much bigger stage, a la Rania of Jordan. And if you have to kiss a bishop's ring etc in order to get there, then so be it. Of course, it didnt turn out this way.

I'm rather shocked about Felipe, seriously thinking that he could make Letizia fit into this system he has known since birth. Maybe he thought that the Spanish people would be as charmed as himself by Letizia, but it went wrong from the beginning. From the presentation you could feel that she saw her her position as a 'job' or 'career', and this was the last authentic character outing of Letizia Ortiz, before casa real shut her down and transformed her into a tool, forcing her to pick up the good old tradition of the SRF, acting.

People have never lost the impression that everything Letizia has done since after the engagement, when representing institution and what it stands for, has been fake and against her own, inner ideals that she lived during her adult life, before meeting the Prince. Some may give the benefit of the doubt, but its not good enough when trying to sell a 180 degree turnaround of a supposedly strong willed woman like Letizia.
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  #77  
Old 04-07-2013, 04:12 AM
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Very accurate post, which creates tnd me the questions:
Do you think she failes on her duties?
Do you think that they (Palace) did not advise her about her future obliged behavior? or they did but she misunderstood?
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  #78  
Old 04-07-2013, 04:13 AM
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I think there is 'power' behind this book, someone must have promised David R. lots of money. Hopefully he got the money he was promised since he really needs it. Afterward I doubt anyone would hire him as their attorney. David must be the one talking to Andrew Morton since Morton mentioned in his book that some people from Letizia's family were blaming Erika's death on Letizia's marriage with the Prince.
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  #79  
Old 04-07-2013, 04:15 AM
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some people from Letizia's family were blaming Erika's death on Letizia's marriage with the Prince.
This is absolutely disgusting for Letizia.
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  #80  
Old 04-07-2013, 04:26 AM
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Very accurate post, which creates tnd me the questions:
Do you think she failes on her duties?
Do you think that they (Palace) did not advise her about her future obliged behavior? or they did but she misunderstood?
No, I do not think that she fails on her duties, at all. But I feel - and have always felt - that Letizia's personality does not fit for the position. There is only a certain degree to what you can change, the rest is fake and acting. Letizia is a professional career woman with modern values, intelligent, strong willed, and ready for constant development. Its the last thing the Spanish Royal Family needed to make fit into the institution and its easy to see that the institution eats Letizia up, slowly but steadily.

I think that it was impossible for Letizia to know what she was getting into and she was obviously willing to fit in, but she could not imagine to what degree and the powers that are behind the institution. I've said it before, I think she misjudged her own influence on her own position and there is only so much Felipe can do. I doubt the SRF as a whole tried to help or understand but rather thought 'she made her bed and now she has to lie in it'. And once you are in it, there is no other choice than to go along and you better get accustomed to acting through it.
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