"1015 København K" by Trine Villemann (2007)

[Villemann]

Trine,

I'd like to ask a question about the book. Do you go into the family dynamics of Christian X-Frederik IX in your book?

From what I've read, Frederik IX sought to distance himself from his father and set the family up as an 'ideal family' with no interest in politics which was definitely not in keeping with the principles of Christian X.

I imagine this attitude influenced his leadership of the family and how his daughters were raised.

Can you provide any enlightment?

Thanks.

I don't go there at all. I describe Frederik IX, but mostly through the other royals like Margrethe and, especially, Ingrid.However, I know from other books, that the relationship between Frederik IX and his father was very removed, so old Frederik's daughters had a very different upbringing from his own. In that respect, history repeats itself, because CP Frederik is also raising his children completely different to the way he and Joachim were brought up.

 

[ysbel]

Thanks Trine. It's a pity because that part of the family dynamic interests me greatly.

Can you go into more detail of how Fred is raising his children differently than he was raised?

 

[Villemann]

After completing the book, I will add my small voice to the discussion. This book is not the first and certainly not the last to not name names. Several anecdotes are lifted from press articles that can be found on the internet. While the book is not on the level of research as, say, Alison Weir or Julia P Gelardi, it should not be discounted completely. There are interesting parallels of the dynamics between the DRF and the BRF regarding how both the CP of Denmark and The Prince of Wales are sensitive souls who had domineering fathers, distant mothers and turned to their grandmothers for motherly love. This may be a pattern that is inherent to this Royal structure. This may be difficult to prove, since there have been so few Queens’ Regnant in History. The last chapter is more of an open letter to the Crown Princess rather than a part of the book and would be better as an epilogue. Nevertheless, thanks to this book I have added several books to my list to learn more about this monarchy. I have to agree that CP Mary is the one in a prime position to adapt the monarchy. I don’t think it is in trouble, but the republican wolves seem to be gathering. Queen Ingrid was born of a royal house who saw other royal houses swept from the map in WWI. She, like Queen Mary of Great Britain knew the monarchy must change with the times to survive. She may have been Fred’s beloved mormor, but as Ms. Villeman put it she was also “an iron fist in a velvet glove.” Mary Donaldson, being a middle-class commoner (no disrespect intended), from the other side of the world is unsuited to take on an age-old institution such as this to change it. There is too much intoxication from the pomp and ceremony and celebrity to get down to the business at hand. And that business is CP Fred. If he does not have that internal drive to keep growing as a Prince, he needs a gentle push from his wife. CP Mary’s job is twofold: to provide heirs to the throne, and to support her husband; to guide him when he needs it and to be his closest advisor. But she needs to throw herself into the inner workings of Denmark to do this. Something that an outsider might not be able to do.

Hi princess May,
I agree that the republican wolves are gathering. They are smelling blood, unfortunately, which is why it is so important to modernize the monarchy to make it more relevant to all of us. I think my book has made many Danes aware of some of the problems within the DRF. Now, all we have to do is fix those problems - beginning with Mary working to make a decent Crown Prince/King out of Frederik.

 

[Villemann]

Thanks Trine. It's a pity because that part of the family dynamic interests me greatly.

Can you go into more detail of how Fred is raising his children differently than he was raised?

First and foremost, he is there. Christian and Isabella are never without their dad for long. The recent 3 week stay in Beijing was by far the longest, they have ever been without him. Frederik's parents were very absent during his childhood. Also, I know Frederik will never punish his children physically. He and his brother were beaten up by their dad on a number of occasions, I mention one of these episodes in my book . Frederik has told several of his friends, that he simply does not believe in punishing children that way. Frederik has great empathy with children. During my research I was told so many stories about these special bonds he forms with children. Unfortunately, I was not able to publish any of these stories as that would have exposed my sources. He is the greatest dad, Christian and Isabella could ever have,IMO.

 

[Lilla]

I agree that the republican wolves are gathering.

Of couse you agree, it comes from your book.

Well I don't agree at all - and I am a Dane living in Denmark.

They are smelling blood, unfortunately, which is why it is so important to modernize the monarchy to make it more relevant to all of us

.

You are not speaking on behalf of the Danes. You might want the monarcy to be more relevant to you. As for the rest of the Danes let them speak for themselves. You are certainly not speaking out my oppinion as I don't concur with you at all.

I think my book has made many Danes aware of some of the problems within the DRF

.

That is just so far out................

Now, all we have to do is fix those problems - beginning with Mary working to make a decent Crown Prince/King out of Frederik.

Once again please refrain from speaking on behalf of the Danes. You can speak on behalf of yourselfe. Leave the "we" out of it!

 

[enneagramj]

Hello, Trine,

That is heartwarming to learn how present P Frederik is to his children.

What about P Joachim?

With the divorce, his sons living full time in Copenhagen with their mother, and him being based fulltime in Schakenborg with Marie, and rarely in Copenhagen, would you say his relationship with the HH princes is now like his to his father, P Hendrik?

Thanks


You had mentioned once that Hendrik cannot stand Countess A. Is it because he never has or as a result of the divorce?

And with P Joachim not living in Copenhagen, do the Queen and P Hendrik make a point of seeing P Felix and P N often? Does Countess A drop by with the boys in the palace for tea or something?

 

[Al_bina]

I call it prejudice, because it is so obvious that Empress is not prepared to actually discuss my book. It is very clear, when you read my book, how Frederik and Joachim have both struggled with this silly royal family tradition of having to marry foreigners ... [my bolding and snipped]

Well ... Prince Joachim has managed to marry foreigners twice. How exactly did Prince Joachim struggle with the tradition? Once again I think that it has to do more with personal preferences and choices than traditions.

 

[Lilla]

First and foremost, he is there. Christian and Isabella are never without their dad for long. The recent 3 week stay in Beijing was by far the longest, they have ever been without him. Frederik's parents were very absent during his childhood. Also, I know Frederik will never punish his children physically. He and his brother were beaten up by their dad on a number of occasions, I mention one of these episodes in my book . Frederik has told several of his friends, that he simply does not believe in punishing children that way. Frederik has great empathy with children. During my research I was told so many stories about these special bonds he forms with children. Unfortunately, I was not able to publish any of these stories as that would have exposed my sources. He is the greatest dad, Christian and Isabella could ever have,IMO.

Villemann I really don't care wether you are writing somthing negative about TRF or something positive. What I don't like is this speaking with the voice of authority and then hiding behind "sources you claim to have" but can't reveal. You do so in your book as well - and that is why I can't recomend it.

 

[Villemann]

Of couse you agree, it comes from your book.

Well I don't agree at all - and I am a Dane living in Denmark.

.

You are not speaking on behalf of the Danes. You might want the monarcy to be more relevant to you. As for the rest of the Danes let them speak for themselves. You are certainly not speaking out my oppinion as I don't concur with you at all.

.

That is just so far out................



Once again please refrain from speaking on behalf of the Danes. You can speak on behalf of yourselfe. Leave the "we" out of it!

I think it is painstakingly clear to everybody (well, nearly everybody) that this is a thread about MY book and therefore I am expressing MY opinions.

Hello, Trine,

That is heartwarming to learn how present P Frederik is to his children.

What about P Joachim?

With the divorce, his sons living full time in Copenhagen with their mother, and him being based fulltime in Schakenborg with Marie, and rarely in Copenhagen, would you say his relationship with the HH princes is now like his to his father, P Hendrik?

Thanks


You had mentioned once that Hendrik cannot stand Countess A. Is it because he never has or as a result of the divorce?

And with P Joachim not living in Copenhagen, do the Queen and P Hendrik make a point of seeing P Felix and P N often? Does Countess A drop by with the boys in the palace for tea or something?

Prince Joachim is also a very hands-on dad, but a lot of his time is spend at Schackenborg in Southern Jutland, so his time with the boys is measured out somewhat differently. The Queen and her husband see the boys with Joachim. To the best of my knowledge, Alex never takes the boys to see their grandparents. After the divorce, Alex has only been seen in public once with Prince Henrik. The Prince Consort was very upset by the way, his daughter-in-law handled the divorce, so there is no lost love there

Well ... Prince Joachim has managed to marry foreigners twice. How exactly did Prince Joachim struggle with the tradition? Once again I do not think that it has to do with the tradition, but with personal preferences and choices.

No, his personal preferences and choices were custom made for P Joachim by the palace and they included. No Danish bride!

 

[Lilla]

I think it is painstakingly clear to everybody (well, nearly everybody) that this is a thread about MY book and therefore I am expressing MY opinions.

It might be a thread about your book - but it isn't your thread. You are a member on this forum equal to other members. You can express your oppinion just like other members. Your oppinions are your oppinions and they do not include the oppinions of an entire nation, nomatter how much the subjekt on the thread is a book that happens to be written by you. I will respond to your posts and oppinions exactly the same way as I respond to the posts and oppinions of all other members.

 

[Fashionista100]

Well ... Prince Joachim has managed to marry foreigners twice. How exactly did Prince Joachim struggle with the tradition? Once again I do not think that it has to do with the tradition, but with personal preferences and choices.

It is also quite clear that Fred and Joachim live in an International circle with an international group of Friends. It was only natural for the to meet foriegn women. They also have the means to pursue the relationship. While it may be a "tradition" as some will call it, it is more just a coincidence. I am sure Fred and Joachim are perfectly capeable to choosing their own spouses.

Katja and Bettina did embarassing things. Mary did not. As for being Danish, it has more to do with the press being in your business every 5 seconds and drawing the conclusions they want to, not what they truely are. With Mary, he was able to conduct his relationship in a private hidden manner for over a year. Something he could not do before. Also, he was older and more mature when he met Mary. Which is usually when people find their own spouses or soulmates. Fred and Mary have both evolved into the people they are by then. Then they can grow and change together as they age. There is a deep connection between them. You can tell by the way they look at one another.

 

[Villemann]

Villemann I really don't care wether you are writing somthing negative about TRF or something positive. What I don't like is this speaking with the voice of authority and then hiding behind "sources you claim to have" but can't reveal. You do so in your book as well - and that is why I can't recomend it.

Well, if you don't really care, then why are you on this thread? If you don't like my "voice of authority," as you call it, then what are you doing here? If you can't recommend my book, why do you bother engaging me at all? Something must have lit your fire, Lila!

 

[Elspeth]

I call it prejudice, because it is so obvious that Empress is not prepared to actually discuss my book. It is very clear, when you read my book, how Frederik and Joachim have both struggled with this silly royal family tradition of having to marry foreigners. Empress is outright dismissing these facts.

Well, there does seem to be some controversy about how binding a tradition it actually is. It doesn't sound like the sort of situation we have in the UK where marrying a Catholic automatically removes a person from the line of succession. I also gather that in Denmark in the past, marrying a Danish commoner was a good was to get kicked out of the royal family too, but I thought that was because of the commoner part of it, not the Danish part of it. Sounds somewhat as though Queen Margrethe is insisting on her personal preference rather than upholding something unavoidable.

I wonder if Frederik will insist on that tradition too for his own children. After the precedent of a crown princess from a thoroughly middle-class background, I assume they won't be able to turn Christian into a Rosenborg simply because he wants to marry a commoner. But I wonder how public opinion would respond to a battle of wills over marrying a Danish girl if he decided to go public with it.

My opinions in the book are confined to the last chapter and I have already taken on board what you said about that chapter "disrupting" the whole rhytm of the book. As for Katja? Yes, she was Frederik's first love. Unfortunately they were not allowed to marry. IMO that does not diminish Frederik's love for CP Mary one bit as some hardcore Mary-fans seem to believe! I bet most of us have had previous partners, we were in love with.But yes,IMO, it is in Mary's hands to try to make a king out of Frederik. It part of her job desciption, if you like, to make him the best sovereign, that she possibly can.

The hard-core Mary fans? The ones I've seen talking about how Fred really doesn't love her all that much tend to be the Mary detractors. Even so, it's created a rather awkward situation all round, especially if it's true that people were reporting how much more confident and relaxed he was when he was with Katja but aren't really so struck by a similar influence coming from Mary.

I welcome discussion. I do not shy away from controversy, as some of you might have noticed, but it is very hard to discuss my book, when your counter part is basically dismissing every word written as "tabloid nonsense." Then what is left to discuss?

Well, I know this is going to sound like nitpicking, but "prejudice" has the meaning of "pre-judging." When you get this sort of criticism from someone AFTER reading the book, it's a bit harder to make the charge of prejudice stick. Empress said quite a lot of the same things I did, although more - erm - directly, and you didn't respond to those issues when I raised them either.

I don't mind repeating it, because I am too lazy to go back and find the post! The lack of an index was a deliberate decision on my part. I wanted there to be a "flow" to the book and,IMO, when you have an index, many readers tend to dip in and out of a book and only read fragments.

I think that since this is a fairly short and easy-to-read book, that'd be a lot less of a problem than in something like an 800-page official biography. But that's certainly your choice.

 

[Villemann]

It is also quite clear that Fred and Joachim live in an International circle with an international group of Friends. It was only natural for the to meet foriegn women. They also have the means to pursue the relationship. While it may be a "tradition" as some will call it, it is more just a coincidence. I am sure Fred and Joachim are perfectly capeable to choosing their own spouses.

Katja and Bettina did embarassing things. Mary did not. As for being Danish, it has more to do with the press being in your business every 5 seconds and drawing the conclusions they want to, not what they truely are. With Mary, he was able to conduct his relationship in a private hidden manner for over a year. Something he could not do before. Also, he was older and more mature when he met Mary. Which is usually when people find their own spouses or soulmates. Fred and Mary have both evolved into the people they are by then. Then they can grow and change together as they age. There is a deep connection between them. You can tell by the way they look at one another.

What did Katja do, that embarrassed the DRF?

 

[enneagramj]

Hi, Trine, thanks for the quick reply. I guess that Queen M and P Hendrik don't see much of their grandchildren by P J much after the marriage if they don't ever see the boys alone. A bit sad, but then if they aren't kid magnets and dislike Countess Al, it naturally follows.

Does Queen M dislike Countess A as much as P Hendrik?

Take care,

 

[Villemann]

It might be a thread about your book - but it isn't your thread. You are a member on this forum equal to other members. You can express your oppinion just like other members. You oppinions are your oppinions and they do not include the oppinion of an entire nation, nomatter how much the subjekt on the thread is a book that happens to be written by you. I will respond to your posts and oppinions exactly the same way as I respond to the posts and oppinions of all other members.

It seems to me we are running in circles around each other here. This is a thread about MY book - like it or not - so therefor this is the place, where I am free to express MY opinions on how I see matters concerning the DRF. I am not expecting you to treat me different from any other posters. I am merely pointing out that some things are too obvious to ignore - unless, of course, you choose to!

 

[Lilla]

It seems to me we are running in circles around each other here. This is a thread about MY book - like it or not - so therefor this is the place, where I am free to express MY opinions on how I see matters concerning the DRF. I am not expecting you to treat me different from any other posters. I am merely pointing out that some things are too obvious to ignore - unless, of course, you choose to!

As you tend to remind other posters on the remarks made by moderatores, I will remind you on this:

Ahem, I believe we're here to discuss the book, not insult each other, each other's work, or make broad generalizations about the Danish people…

 

[Al_bina]

Fashionista100,
It has been most kind of you to share your views on the subject matter.
Given the very rigid views of Ms.Villemann on the marriage traditions of the Danish Royal family, I deem it expedient to abstain from further discussions of the matter in question.

 

[Villemann]

Hi, Trine, thanks for the quick reply. I guess that Queen M and P Hendrik don't see much of their grandchildren by P J much after the marriage if they don't ever see the boys alone. A bit sad, but then if they aren't kid magnets and dislike Countess Al, it naturally follows.

Does Queen M dislike Countess A as much as P Hendrik?

Take care,

Oh, but they do see the boys. Especiall Henrik goes to great lengths to spend time with Felix and Joachim, but they are always either in the company of their dad or dropped off by a nanny or even Alexandra's husband.

 

[Villemann]

As you tend to remind other posters on the remarks made by moderatores, I will remind you on this:

I am glad you reminded me, that we are not here to insult each others work. Thanks!

 

[enneagramj]

Queen M and Countess A

Oh, I get it, the Queen and Prince Consort see the boys and it is understood that Alexandra and Martin are not welcome at the palace. Guess Queen M dislikes Countess A even more than Prince H.

Thanks for the info, Trine

 

[Lilla]

Well, if you don't really care, then why are you on this thread? If you don't like my "voice of authority," as you call it, then what are you doing here? If you can't recommend my book, why do you bother engaging me at all? Something must have lit your fire, Lila!

I am here to give a different view on The DRF then the one you provide in your book and on this threat - plus to make it clear that you are not speaking on behalf of the Danish nation even if you seem to pretend to do so. Not being capable of recommending your book is part of that.

 

[Villemann]

Fashionista100,
It has been most kind of you to share your views on the subject matter.
Given the very rigid views of Ms.Villemann on the marriage traditions of the Danish Royal family, I deem it expedient to abstain from further discussions of the matter in question.

Abstain, by all means, but these are not my "rigid views," these are FACTS. The Queen has spoken publicly of how her boys always knew, it would be better if they found a bride outside Denmark. It is not something I invented!

 

[Viv]

Mary Donaldson, being a middle-class commoner (no disrespect intended), from the other side of the world is unsuited to take on an age-old institution such as this to change it. There is too much intoxication from the pomp and ceremony and celebrity to get down to the business at hand. And that business is CP Fred. If he does not have that internal drive to keep growing as a Prince, he needs a gentle push from his wife. CP Mary’s job is twofold: to provide heirs to the throne, and to support her husband; to guide him when he needs it and to be his closest advisor. But she needs to throw herself into the inner workings of Denmark to do this. Something that an outsider might not be able to do.

IMO, the point of departure for a consort is that she/he is
expected to be a support rather than a management consultant!
I hasten to add that it does not rule out that the consort eventually
becomes a "modernizer". In CP Mary's case it could well happen
once she knows the royal ropes and inside out and -not to forget -
when she is in a position to do so, that is when she becomes
Queen consort! For now, she is still an apprentice,
a subordinate who has to align and adjust to the procedures,
customs, and traditions of the royal house.

Danish antropologist Anne Skjeldborg Jensen (an upcoming royalty
pundit)made a comment in a recent issue of "Eurowoman"*, a Danish
monthly. It went something like:
" Most of the new European crown princesses are well educated,
however they never get an opportunity to bring their education
into play. It is as if their personalities fade away once they are
swallowed up by the royal institutions, which are being governed
by men. They all become mothers fairly quickly and get involved
in suitable "soft" value causes and charities."

(* IIRC it was the June or July issue, in case any of my compatriots
are interested! It was a 4-page article on the new "commoner"
princesses)

 

[Villemann]

I am here to give a different view on The DRF then the one you provide in your book and on this threat - plus to make it clear that you are not speaking on behalf of the Danish nation even if you seem to pretend to do so. Not being capable of recommending your book is part of that.

Here we go again: I am not pretending anything.This is a thread about a book I wrote on the DRF and I am allowed to express my views. I think most posters on this thread have got that by now. Time to change the record, wouldn't you say?

 

[enneagramj]

It appears that the Queen M and Prince H were close to the Manleys. Then the divorce happened, the Manleys stayed in Schakenborg until Prince J married Marie, and they moved to Austria. I thought it strange that the Manleys did not move into Countess A's huge mansion in Copenhagen. Is Countess A chosing to distant herself from her parents when her dad did not walk her down the aisle to Martin?

Thanks for writing, Trine!

 

[Villemann]

IMO, the point of departure for a consort is that she/he is
expected to be a support rather than a management consultant!
I hasten to add that it does preclude that the consort eventually
becomes a "modernizer". In CP Mary's case it could well happen
once she knows the royal ropes and inside out and -not to forget -
when she is in a position to do so, that is when she becomes
Queen consort! For now, she is still an apprentice,
a subordinate who has to align and adjust to the procedures,
customs, and traditions of the royal house.

Danish antropologist Anne Skjeldborg Jensen (an upcoming royalty
pundit)made a comment in a recent issue of "Eurowoman"*, a Danish
monthly. It went something like:
" Many of the new European crown princesses are well educated,
however they never get an opportunity to bring their education
into play. It is as if their personalities fade away once they are
swallowed up by the royal institutions, which are being governed
by men. They all become mothers fairly quickly and get involved
in suitable "soft" value causes and charities."

(* IIRC it was the June or July issue, in case any of my compatriots
are interested! It was a 4-page article on the new "commoner"
princesses)

And Ms Jensen is absolutely right. These educated young women become like a dear caught in the royal headlights as soon as they have married their prince.

 

[Lilla]

This is a thread about a book I wrote on the DRF and I am allowed to express my views.

Of course you are allowed to express your views as long as you only express your views. And I am allowed to do exactly the same.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Things are becoming heated once again. ​

So I am asking -- YET AGAIN -- to please chill out and let your fellow members express their opinions and for the love of chocolate please refrain from making inane snarky remarks!! If you cannot have a civil debate and cannot behave like a mature adult DO NOT post in this topic! Otherwise this topic will be closed -- YET AGAIN -- permanently!​

Thank you​

GT
Royal Library Mod.​

 

[denice]

I for one would hate to see this thread closed. I read the book and found it interesting. The author gave her opnions and not everyone will agree with them. I think we should move on! The most interesting thing I found in reading the book was the information about Alexandra. It is interesting how you can see pictures ....and see a perfect family ...and then the announcement of divorce. Was the public in Denmark surprised or were there rumblings about the marriage.