"1015 København K" by Trine Villemann (2007)

[Villemann]

No you did not start it, but you are certainly making full use of it.

In any case, I don't think that I will buy your book, as I tend to want to read things, like kimebear, that have at least some verifiable sources. And I certainly don't have any desire to read a book where the author is making claims of having effected changes simply because of what she wrote. I just can't believe that anything that you may have written was so earth shattering.

And by the way, I generally read the reviews, not only of the people who have read the book, but of other published authors before I buy. Why would you put any negative reviews on your website? That would be like shooting yourself in the foot, so I read the reviews of the people here who have read the book. The majority of which are not glowing. I don't know about others, but when a majority says that the book is not really worth it, I'm not likely to plunk down $30 or more.

Is there a problem with me making "full use of it?" Because if there is, you should address it with your supervisor - not me! On my website it says: "Uncut - unless it's libellous." Every review we have received has been posted. If a negative one shows up, we will post it. Please point me to ALL of those reviews, you have had on this forum, that are SO negative apart from the newspaper reviews we all know about! I might have missed some! I am not afraid - as you might have gathered - of criticism and debate. I welcome it and even invite it, because the more we debate these issues the more chance there is of change. I respect people, who educate themselves. people, who are not fundamentalist in their belief system, but make up their own mind based on what they read. Prejudice is an ugly beast.

 

[Lilla]

"Tossegod" is not a derogatory word. On the contrary.

By that sentence you have made your credebility - zero.

I stead of calling a person "tossegod" one might just as well use the word "idiot".

Who just called my book "tittle-tattle" without having read all of it? Lets debate the monarchy, shall we?

To be precise I used the frase "tittle-tattle" in conection to the word article - not book.

 

[Villemann]

Ahem, I believe we're here to discuss the book, not insult each other, each other's work, or make broad generalizations about the Danish people…

Furthermore, unless we're discussing the book - I believe the discussions on the Danish royal family belong in that forum. We do, as it has been mentioned earlier in this thread - have a topic for Frederik's candidacy for the IOC, and, provided people can behave, I'm sure there's plenty of other options as well.

Please get back to the book!


That being said:


But to me, as I believe I stated in my review quite early in this thread written after I'd read the book for the first time, the final chapter of the book was the chapter that was, to me, quite a lot out of touch with the rest of the book writing-wise.

Where I quite enjoyed the first parts of the book - an overview which was rather good, in my opinion, and it was excellent reading material for a long trip by train - I felt like the last chapter of the book belonged more on a blog, a message board or as an opinion piece in a newspaper.

Where the rest of the book seemed to be more about the history and the family, the last chapter seemed to be more about your fairly subjective opinions on the Danish monarchy. There wasn't really anything wrong with it, per se, but like all the interviews that came out about the book, it didn't really feel like it fit in the context of the previous parts.

All in all, I don't think it is as scandalous a book as royal posters would like to believe, and quite frankly not worth all the hype, but it was an interesting read for someone who hasn't followed the Danish tabloid press from birth. (Now, the Norwegian monarchy on the other hand )

And the final chapter was also the one I really had to fight for. My editor wanted more of the biographical stuff and I could have provided much more, but the whole "deal" for me was to channel the knowledge and information I had gathered over the years and with this book into an "editorial" - if you like - on the state of the Danish monarchy. That final chapter breaks completely with the style of the rest of book, I agree. But it does also explain, why I feel the monarchy so desperately needs to change, doesn't it?

 

[Villemann]

By that sentence you have made your credebility - zero.

I stead of calling a person "tossegod" one might just as well use the word "idiot".



To be precice I used "tittle-tattle" in conection to the word article - not book.

You are SO wrong. Just checked with my Theasaurus. "Tossegod" is "troskyldig." It has NOTHING to do with "idiot."

 

[TheTruth]

You are SO wrong. Just checked with my Theasaurus. "Tossegod" is "troskyldig." It has NOTHING to do with "idiot."

I believe you should check out this website then ... softheaded: Definition, Synonyms and Much More from Answers.com

 

[Villemann]

I believe you should check out this website then ... softheaded: Definition, Synonyms and Much More from Answers.com

I have got the newest edition of "Politikens Thesaurus" right next to me. I don't know if you are Danish but a "tossegod" person is NOT an "idiot."

 

[Lilla]

You are SO wrong. Just checked with my Theasaurus. "Tossegod" is "troskyldig." It has NOTHING to do with "idiot."

Well I woun't walk around in Denmark calling people either "Tossegode" or "troskyldige". If I did - I would pritty soon be without any friends.

"Troskyldige" though - will not be connectet to the word "idiot" but to the word "naive" which nobody want to be called either not even teenagers who often can seem naive.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Nobody cares what the words Tossegod or Troskyldig means! And enough of the insults as Norwegianne noted several posts above!!​

Move on people and talk about the topic at hand!​

GT
Royal Library Mod
​

 

[norwegianne]

And the final chapter was also the one I really had to fight for. My editor wanted more of the biographical stuff and I could have provided much more, but the whole "deal" for me was to channel the knowledge and information I had gathered over the years and with this book into an "editorial" - if you like - on the state of the Danish monarchy. That final chapter breaks completely with the style of the rest of book, I agree. But it does also explain, why I feel the monarchy so desperately needs to change, doesn't it?

If that was your intent from the get-go, then I feel the rest of the book should have been written (and edited more) as an editorial rather than merely the history.

There was another book on the Danish monarchy, Blot til Pynt, by Claus Bjørn (published in 2001, if I recall right), which, to me, felt like more what you might have intended with your book, if I read you right, here, (although feel free to disagree if I'm falling short of the mark) - the author's opinions coupled with the history/facts behind them and at the end a discussion of the future of the monarchy in Denmark?

 

[Villemann]

If that was your intent from the get-go, then I feel the rest of the book should have been written (and edited more) as an editorial rather than merely the history.

There was another book on the Danish monarchy, Blot til Pynt, by Claus Bjørn (published in 2001, if I recall right), which, to me, felt like more what you might have intended with your book, if I read you right, here, (although feel free to disagree if I'm falling short of the mark) - the author's opinions coupled with the history/facts behind them and at the end a discussion of the future of the monarchy in Denmark?

My editor knew I could deliver a good, honest account of what the royals are really like behind the palace walls without entering the royal bedrooms. I was willing to do that as long as I got "My Final Say," if you like. Probably - with hindsight - not the best solution. I have certainly learned my lesson and my next book on the Danish monarchy will be completely different.

 

[Empress]

You can not possibly deliver an honest account of something without having personal knowledge of it.

That's like me saying I know how to be a surgeon, I've read all about it. Ridiculous.

 

[Winnie]

You can not possibly deliver an honest account of something without having personal knowledge of it.

That's like me saying I know how to be a surgeon, I've read all about it. Ridiculous.

I don't know if I actually agree with this statement. Many books have been written about dead people using only other books and news articles plus family letters on the subject person. I love history and have read many biographical books that are so well written that even colleges are accepting them. There is one on Harry Truman and another on Benjamin Franklin that was written years after their deaths and accepted as college history reading.

 

[Lilla]

Many books have been written about dead people using only other books and news articles plus family letters on the subject person.

True - and if these books are based on scientific studies - the sources are outlined, which makes it possible for the reader not only to check the reliabiliy of the book but also to immerse further into the subject.

Not providing sources will alwayes either leave a question of doubt regarding credibility, or a question about whether the author are seeking acknowledgment for the findings of others.

If Villeman had outlined her sources I am sure many of the questions and statements presented on this thread never would have been put forward.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Uh Wow!!

It only took six posts for members to, once again, insult one another.

Come on, people!! If you cannot listen nor read what Norwegianne and I have stated on the previous page -- that means page 23 -- and you feel as if you cannot control your temper DO NOT post in this topic.

Anymore insults, flames, and overall dogpiling towards your fellow members and this topic will be closed.

Capiche?


GT
Royal Library Mod

​

 

[Villemann]

Of course my book is an honest account of the personalities currently inhabiting the Danish Royal House. I know many people would just like my book to go away, but it has become a defining book on the Danish Royal Family in our time because it is independent and realistic. The pink lenses, through which the Danish Royal family is mostly iewed, were removed for this book. As for my anonymous sources. Well, not all of my sources are anonymous. - which you would know, if you had read 1015! This morning I had a lovely PM from a member of this forum. The person has read my book and enjoyed it. The member also said in the PM that her/she - after having read my book- understood why my sources had to remain nameless. It was my biggest concern about the whole project, but I still fail to seee why resepected newspapers like IHT, NY Times etc. etc. can use anonymous sources, without anyone howling at them, but I can't. I did not invent the use of anonymous sources. It is a tool a journalist uses in order to get to the truth.

 

[Guido]

Apart from producing heirs, I would say that turning your husband into a king is the primary function for any Crown Princess. Usually these crown princes become much more secure and grounded once they have a wife and a family - look at Norway's Haakon! - but in Frederik's case this has not happened. Royal history has many examples of strong wifes, who have moulded their husbands into good kings. At this very moment, I can only think of the late Queen Ingrid, whom I studied a lot for 1015. The more I got to know her, the more I understood why she is called "The creator of the modern Danish monarchy." She was unique, not always pleasant, but she saw the problems and she dealt with them. She was not afraid to take control, when it was needed and she - I would say almost singlehandedly, but not quite - brought about the change in the succession that led to Margrethe being Queen of Denmark today. Had old Frederik IX just been allowed to potter around, I doubt very much that Denmark would have had a royal family today. I don't envy CP Mary, but this is the kind of work she needs to do with her Frederik. Take control, mould him, steer him, whatever- because if CP Frederik is left to his own devices,IMO, Christian will never be king.

Why won't Frederik give up his place in the line of succession for the throne if he doesn't want to become King of Denmark? I don't think It's impossible that Joachim will be the Crown Prince or someone else from relatives. There were numerous examples in history. Why wouldn't they change? Frederik knows exactly that a crown prince has many obligations. If he doesn't like pressure, he won't want Christian to suffer as well.

 

[Villemann]

Frederik feels bound by his duty. He also likes the perks that come with the title. Personally I feel that we are breaching these royals' human right by preventing them from doing, what they want to do. As Frederik once told a friend: " If I had a choice, I would like to just be a dude and have a bar on a beach somewhere." I think there should be a way out for Frederik and his fellow royals. Prince Joachim's personality contains all the elements of a great royal,IMO, but the Danes don't really care very much for Joachim. And even less after they were left to pay his alimony for his ex-wife!

 

[Warren]

I think it would be the experience of every young heir or heiress to a throne to have doubts, and to voice those doubts to confidantes. There must come a time when there's a dawning realisation, and sense of dread, that their life is not their own, that decisions wil be made for them, that they carry the weight of expectation, tradition and dynastic history on their shoulders. Most young people in this position, royal or tycoon's son or daughter, would ask "why do I have to do this?" At some stage they become resigned to their "fate", and get on with what they have to do. The burden of other people's expectations must be daunting, and not everyone is filled with boundless self-confidence of their own abilities and talents. Nonetheless, not that many crown princes or princesses fall by the wayside. Maybe the mystique works both ways and instils some sense of the "royal stuff" into those destined for such elite public office.

Which ties in with something else I've often wondered. At some stage Mary Donaldson would have seen her relationship with Frederik not just in terms of serious boyfriend-girlfriend, or lovers, but as something much more serious. At some point Mary had to think of the possible consequences of continuing the relationship, and at a critical moment in her own mind she would have said to herself "I can do this. I can be a successful Queen Consort of Denmark". We'll never know of course exactly how she came to a confident acceptance of this future, but it's such a critical turning point in terms of self-belief that I'd be interested in hearing from Trine if she knows anything as to how Mary faced the issue or came to believe that she was up to the task.

 

[Villemann]

I think it would be the experience of every young heir or heiress to a throne to have doubts, and to voice those doubts to confidantes. There must come a time when there's a dawning realisation, and sense of dread, that their life is not their own, that decisions wil be made for them, that they carry the weight of expectation, tradition and dynastic history on their shoulders. Most young people in this position, royal or tycoon's son or daughter, would ask "why do I have to do this?" At some stage they become resigned to their "fate", and get on with what they have to do. The burden of other people's expectations must be daunting, and not everyone is filled with boundless self-confidence of their own abilities and talents. Nonetheless, not that many crown princes or princesses fall by the wayside. Maybe the mystique works both ways and instils some sense of the "royal stuff" into those destined for such elite public office.

Which ties in with something else I've often wondered. At some stage Mary Donaldson would have seen her relationship with Frederik not just in terms of serious boyfriend-girlfriend, or lovers, but as something much more serious. At some point Mary had to think of the possible consequences of continuing the relationship, and at a critical moment in her own mind she would have said to herself "I can do this. I can be a successful Queen Consort of Denmark". We'll never know of course exactly how she came to a confident acceptance of this future, but it's such a critical turning point in terms of self-belief that I'd be interested in hearing from Trine if she knows anything as to how Mary faced the issue or came to believe that she was up to the task.

CP Mary,IMO, went for the prince and fell in love with the man. There is nothing wrong in that, but based on my information CP Mary was very aware from early on that her boyfriend was not like the rest of us. Crunch time, as far as I am aware, came when she left Australia. First stop was Paris, which she didn't like much, so when the decision was made - by her and CP Frederik - for Mary to move to Denmark, she had made up mind that she wanted the prince and the kingdom. She faced that monumental decision with enourmous courage, I think, because by then there was no proposal on the table, yet Mary went ahead and started educating herself by learning Danish and reading up on Danish history. I know she from time to time despaired because there was no firm commitment from Frederik, but she suffered her "Kate Middleton-moment" with great dignity,IMO. To the best of my knowledge, Mary never seriously doubted, she could do the job - perhaps because she really did not understand the enormity of it. That insight came later - I am told.
I agree on your views about the burden of expectations. It is exactly was is crushing CP Frederik. He just can not handle it. The palace is very reluctant to speak about these issues - even off the record - but it is my understanding that CP Frederik is receiving some kind of coaching in order to relax a bit more when he is faced with cameras, microphones and lots of questions. I noticed in Beijing that he was a bit more coherent than usual, when he held his press conference, which just goes to prove that these problems can be overcome - if they are addressed!

 

[Lilla]

but the Danes don't really care very much for Joachim. And even less after they were left to pay his alimony for his ex-wife!

You can speak only on behalf of yourselfe. Not on behalf of an intire nation. When making statsment like the above quoted yau can only write:

"I don't really................"

To the best of my knowledge the Danes hasn't elected anybody to be spoksmen for them regarding TRF. Not you nor anybody else.

You are perfectly intitled to espress your oppinion. But you can not speak on behalf of me nor the rest of Denmark.

 

[Villemann]

You can speak only on behalf of yourselfe. Not on behalf of an intire nation. When making statsment like the above quoted yau can only write:

"I don't really................"

To the best of my knowledge the Danes hasn't elected anybody to be spoksmen for them regarding TRF. Not you nor anybody else.

You are perfectly intitled to espress your oppinion. But you can not speak on behalf of me nor the rest of Denmark.

I think it is very obvious to everybody ( well, almost everybody) on this thread about MY book, that I am expressing MY views.

 

[Lilla]

I think it is very obvious to everybody ( well, almost everybody) on this thread about MY book, that I am expressing MY views.

And nobody is denieing you the right to do so as long as you keep it there. Don't involve the rest of Denmark as though all danes concur with you - because that you don't know.

 

[Villemann]

There is a capital IMO right in the middle of that Joachim sentence you are referring too. Now, what else can I do, apart from not having written a book, that seems to upset you. Can we discuss 1015, PLEASE!

 

[Warren]

Yes, can we please move on. Trine's opinions are hers; some will agree and some will disagree. Lets' have a constructive discussion where we may be able to further our understanding of the Danish Royal House and have an intelligent debate on what the future may or may not hold.

thanks.
Warren
Administrator

 

[Empress]

The NY Times and IHT and other WELL ESTABLISHED publications can use anonymous sources occasionally and more often because they have a long history of publishing the truth, have often named their sources, and would like to keep the reputation of being an honest truthful publications, therefore they are not likely to deceive their readership. I'm sorry, but I don't think that you can compare your book to the NY Times, or other well established publications. They have YEARS of reporting behind them, and their sources are generally impeccable. They don't write whole diatribes or newspapers or books filled with unnamed sources. At times yes, but they do try to avoid it.

Furthermore, the NY Times, IHT, Washington Post, etc have editorial boards through which the "anonymous sources" must be verifiable. Each anonymous source statement must be backed up by documentation and/or another verifiable source, before an anonymous source story may be used. If you would like proof of this manner of doing things, I would be more than happy to provide you with verifiable documentation/ verifiable source.

 

[Guido]

Frederik feels bound by his duty. He also likes the perks that come with the title. Personally I feel that we are breaching these royals' human right by preventing them from doing, what they want to do. As Frederik once told a friend: " If I had a choice, I would like to just be a dude and have a bar on a beach somewhere." I think there should be a way out for Frederik and his fellow royals. Prince Joachim's personality contains all the elements of a great royal,IMO, but the Danes don't really care very much for Joachim. And even less after they were left to pay his alimony for his ex-wife!

Who could be a Crown Prince/King of Denmark except Frederik, Joachim and their sons? Is it possible that a distant relative has a right the line of succession to the Danish throne?

 

[norwegianne]

Who could be a Crown Prince/King of Denmark except Frederik, Joachim and their sons? Is it possible that a distant relative has a right the line of succession to the Danish throne?

Well, if you end up without either Joachim or Frederik and their successors, the next in line is Princess Benedikte. And then we end up in a debate whether or not her children are in line to the throne or not - did Alexandra and Nathalie fulfill the statutes set out when Benedikte and Richard married or not? - and if not that… we're looking at Princess Elisabeth, who is the last in line and doesn't have any children. No King Ralph biggrin situation for Denmark, I'm afraid.

The Danish succession can be discussed in the Danish forum

 

[ricarda]

Prince Joachim's personality contains all the elements of a great royal,IMO, but the Danes don't really care very much for Joachim.

To me this sounds contradictory.
If - according to you - the Danes don't care much for Joachim then I don't quite see that "his personality contains all the elements of a great royal".
IMO a great royal nowadays is one who is able to connect with the people on an emotional, a human level, to win their hearts, so to speak. Frederik - with all his lacking eloquence - seems able to do that, he is constantly topping lists of the most popular Danes. Joachim - with all his qualities - it seems is not. (But he is of course much more forthcoming towards the media, which might be the reason why some media people think he would make a better king. )

 

[Lena]

I am honestly also wondering, how Mary should make a better Crown Prince or even King out of Frederik??
Firstly he does need to want that self, secondly I don´t think, that´s the way they had set up their relationship.
They are no June Carter & Johnny Cash couple. I am seeing them more as some kind of buddies, as fun-loving couple. Yes, as owner of a beach bar, I can perfectly picture Frederik if he would be a "Pedersen" or "Smith". He would work there, while Mary would follow her office job in the city. In their spare time they would follow activities with other couples or outings among girlfriends or beer buddies. Lots of independence and though together. Perfect for "no-names", but IMO not for a public job together.
More than 4 years went by since the wedding...and I don´t see this ever changing really.

But I am actually not sure, if a change is needed...and if the Monarchy is so much in danger indeed.
Is there any example in history of a Monarchy vanishing, where the ppl had felt as unity, had been in peace with other folks and had been in the majority wealthy??
So I guess the difference would be rather, if Frederik would be respected or if he would be some kind of laughing stock and "comfort" for those, who e.g. have no great rhetorical skills either.
The decision "Monarchy or Republic" is far more one of politics and economy...and there Frederik has - thanks god- no or only minimal say...

 

[Binz]

So I guess the difference would be rather, if Frederik would be respected or if he would be some kind of laughing stock and "comfort" for those, who e.g. have no great rhetorical skills either.

Thank you very much Lena!

As a shy person myself (like Frederik), I just love it beeing called a laughing stock. No, for shy people it's not a "comfort" if one of "us" is called a laughing stock. Having problems with expressing oneself in public is just one of "our" problems. Guess how many "we" are.

Sadly I'm sure this message will be very soon deleted.