The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Royal Highlights > Royal Library

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #81  
Old 10-16-2007, 12:16 AM
Lady Jennifer's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Down the street. It's the third house on the right, United States
Posts: 7,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by UserDane View Post
Judging from reviews of this socalled book, it is a mere collection of the type of gossip, exaggerations and free fantasy you'll find in any tabloid, not worth the effort I would say. Better save the trouble of initiating legal action for a real author who has done some real work and then take a stance on the content
I seem to remember the same reaction from people when Kitty Kelley's book came out on the BRF.
__________________

__________________
TRF Rules & FAQ
"Life is a succession of moments. To live each one is to succeed." - Corita Kent

Live, Highlander. Grow stronger. Fight another day. Highlander: The Series

Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 10-16-2007, 03:06 AM
norwegianne's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Rogaland, Norway
Posts: 5,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Darkness View Post
One "problem" is, that nobody has read the book already. We only know, what newspapers and tv-stations mentioned. And they choose that, what they want to choose (and what is a good headliner)...
An excellent point.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 10-16-2007, 05:44 AM
wiwaxia's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Douz, Tunisia
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by principessa View Post
I dont believe that writer. She is self calling her an expert and for me she is just a freeloader and don't know anything about the DRF. I think she should apologize for this nonsense and should pay the DRF a compensation.
It is everyones priviledge to believe in what they want! But that said, and with Denmark being a democracy, and freedom of speech being a battle cry in that country, this book also has a valid place - apologies to the DRF!! - no way, and compensation? for what? that suggestion contravenes the very essence of a democracy!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 10-16-2007, 06:13 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NoName, Germany
Posts: 186
I have got a question: Is it true that Trine Villemann was a former journalist at "Billed Bladet"? Isn't "Billed Bladet" a pro-royal-newspaper and also a pro-Princess-Mary-newspaper?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 10-16-2007, 06:59 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SYDNEY, Australia
Posts: 169
Danish Royal Watches website has another translation of the book review made by Politiken.DK :

Danish Royal Watchers: Danish monarchy & Politiken interview with Trine Villemann
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 10-16-2007, 07:04 AM
dazzling's Avatar
Super Moderator
Blog Editor
Royal Blogger
Picture of the Month Assistant Coordinator
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: -, France
Posts: 18,331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda Hsu View Post
Danish Royal Watches website has another translation of the book review made by Politiken.DK :

Danish Royal Watchers: Danish monarchy & Politiken interview with Trine Villemann
&

October 15, 2007: Author Trine Villeman joins the show to discuss her controversial book, 'Copenhagen 1015 K', which casts doubts over the marriage of Princess Mary - watch video here


Villeman in the interview calls th DRF disfunctional which is harsh imo she also say that Frederik is attached not only to his ex-girlfriends but also to their families & she says that its hard for Mary to adapt to royal life and that she is surronded by bad advisors. worth a watch imo, she does give a positive remark by saying that Fred & Mary married out of love etc
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 10-16-2007, 07:13 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 949
She is a freelancer journalist who wrote for both EB and BB.
So obviously she can adapt to different attitudes/viewpoints.
You can also see that in her various interviews:
Australia: Mary is a victim of the DRF (think of all those potential buyers ),
DK: Mary is the wrong woman, the Danish Katja would have been better. All those marriages with foreigners didn't turn out well (think of all those Danish girls who were not married by a prince - and now Joachim will marry another foreigner ! ).
And when she gives an interview to a political paper, then of course suddenly it's all about "discussing the monarchy",
not about unsubstantiated rumours concerning the royals' private lives.

Quote:
Lena
Trine got all absorbed with her matter and seems quite upset and not like a "cool calculator". She seems to believe, what she preaches...and it doesnt seem, as if all would be just about getting a financial cushion.
I see a woman who received a lot of criticism - sure she is upset - and is defending herself. If you are attacked, then attack yourself, and son on.....
I too wouldn't say it's all about money, I think she wants to give herself and her little gossip book a significance they don't have.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 10-16-2007, 11:11 AM
dm2 dm2 is offline
Commoner
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: brooklyn, United States
Posts: 27
I would read this book simply because of the reactions so many people are having about it.( I read the Davinci code for the same reason.) You would think Trine slapped their child.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 10-16-2007, 12:40 PM
Lilla's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricarda View Post
She is a freelancer journalist who wrote for both EB and BB.
So obviously she can adapt to different attitudes/viewpoints.
You can also see that in her various interviews:
Australia: Mary is a victim of the DRF (think of all those potential buyers ),
DK: Mary is the wrong woman, the Danish Katja would have been better. All those marriages with foreigners didn't turn out well (think of all those Danish girls who were not married by a prince - and now Joachim will marry another foreigner ! ).
And when she gives an interview to a political paper, then of course suddenly it's all about "discussing the monarchy",
not about unsubstantiated rumours concerning the royals' private lives.

I see a woman who received a lot of criticism - sure she is upset - and is defending herself. If you are attacked, then attack yourself, and son on.....
I too wouldn't say it's all about money, I think she wants to give herself and her little gossip book a significance they don't have.
I totally agree with you. She is manipulative and self-righteous and the way she talks about how danes have to be enlightend is condescending.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 10-16-2007, 12:56 PM
norwegianne's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Rogaland, Norway
Posts: 5,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by dm2 View Post
I would read this book simply because of the reactions so many people are having about it.( I read the Davinci code for the same reason.)
I've picked up this book at the bookstore today. I'm going on a 16 hours long train ride tomorrow. I considered picking up a bunch of trashy magazines - but this will do, just as well.

It says something when I had to search the bookstore for an hour to to find the only - partially hidden - copy they had. They don't expect this to be a big hit for Christmas presents - it wasn't on display or anything in that manner. (Unlike the big glossy book of Europe's royal houses, translated from German that I picked up in the same go. That one was very prominently placed.)

If I'm going to be debating the contents of it, I want to know what the contents are - and not what the media presents them as.

It was the same way with the biography of Queen Margrethe in which she was misquoted in translations regarding Islam - I picked up the book, and read it before passing judgement. Obviously I don't have the same expectations to a book written without the cooperation of the main subjects, but I'll wait and see.

Lack of named sources was mentioned earlier, though, by leafing through the end of the book, she has mentioned several of the authorized biographies on the royal family as literature used.

It will be interesting to see if I can "wade" through it on my train ride.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 10-16-2007, 01:03 PM
Lady E's Avatar
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Richmond, United States
Posts: 14
Wow Norwegianne, if you could do us the favor of discussing the books after you read it, I know that I would appreciate it greatly. I am unsure if and when this book would be available for purchase in the U.S. or in English, and sadly admit that my curiosity is piqued... only because it has stirred up such a fuss. I'd like to know what the contents are - and not how the media presents them as you would.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 10-16-2007, 01:08 PM
MissSaga's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Manhattan, United States
Posts: 944
I read a translation of a review of the book : It was said to be a big load of crap. All anonoumeous sources and POLITIKEN (some danish newspaper) is doubting whether this Ms. Helleman hasn't made these details and stories up ... Hmm ?
__________________
Why do all good things come to an end ?
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 10-16-2007, 02:39 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: .a, United States
Posts: 3,345
Quote:
If I'm going to be debating the contents of it, I want to know what the contents are - and not what the media presents them as.

Spot on!

Added to that what the media picks and chooses which content to dispute. Same argument made by those who discredit the author without reading this controversial book.

If anything the Danish media is helping Trine's book garner interest instead of squashing it.

I am a supporter of the DRF, and a person who is interested in reading 1015 Kobenhaven just to see what the uproar is all about.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 10-16-2007, 04:28 PM
Polly's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mebourne, Australia
Posts: 653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda Hsu View Post
Danish Royal Watches website has another translation of the book review made by Politiken.DK :

Danish Royal Watchers: Danish monarchy & Politiken interview with Trine Villemann
Thanks for this,Linda.

If I were Alexandra I would seriously consider suing the author if this report is correct. To suggest, as does Villemann, that Alexandra saw Joachim simply as a meal ticket for her and her parents is actionable, in my opinion. If the translation is accurate, it's also somewhat racist in its implications, I believe.

As for her call to the Queen to abdicate, one wonders why? Is age a deterrence to duty? Is the Queen showing signs of dementia? Is she otherwise unwell? Is she so unpopular that it would be in the best interests of the state?

Queen Elizabeth is sometimes beseiged by similar calls for her abdication, too. Such a bloody cheek, I call it. Irrespective of her age, she performs her monarchical duties with dedication and application. I have never heard that the Queen of Denmark does otherwise.

I would like to read this book as from the very little which I've seen translated, this author appears to have read the woeful English muck-raking tabloids and merely transposed the names of the BRF to those of the DRF.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 10-16-2007, 05:09 PM
Aurora810's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, United States
Posts: 1,052
I was thinking along the same lines as Polly. According to the portion I read at the DRW site. In one breath the author talks about how unprepared Frederik is to be king. And how he does not really want to be king. But yet the author says she thinks it's time for the Queen to hand things over to Fred. And that this should happen no later then 2012. According to the author she says Fred does not know what to do with his future role but yet she wants him to start his reign. A bit contradicting is it not?

Well, I have only limited access to this entire matter so I shall be cautious not to comment too much. But I am curious to hear from those of you that are planning on reading the book.

Oh and does anyone know about Mary breaking down in tears on the dance floor? That was mentioned on the DRW site but I was a little confused about the whole thing. When did that happen and what is the story there? Or is there a story there?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 10-16-2007, 07:11 PM
Polly's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mebourne, Australia
Posts: 653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star View Post
I know, it's a rather odd argument people trying to make?

As for its truth of the book,I don't see why keeping the sources unnamed automatically means it is all fabrications. Anybody who did contribute to this book, whether they were a current staff member or ex, are hardly going to wish to be named. The would definitely lose their job and probably be the recipient of some sort of legal action.

After all, I've never seen anybody question the truth of the Jean Sasson "Princess" series; could that be because they fit in with people's prejudices about the Saudis? Quite probably......
I think that this last point of yours is well made, Little Star. However, I read a book some years ago which, I think, was called "Princess" but I don't remember that Sasson was the author. This book was written by a female member of the family and because of this I was inclined to believe what it said, particularly as, at the end of the book, she was living back in Saudi Arabia. Truthfully, I found it very shocking, even taking into account the difference in cultures, religion and government.

As for the propriety or otherwise of using un-named sources, I think that it's incumbent on those who are offering salacious or disparaging 'inside information' about others to stand by their comments. It should not be possible to attack and diminish anyone's reputation, be it prince or pauper, without even an iota of evidence, an established source, and/or confirmation from impartial witnesses. To me, they're basic requirements of fair play and decency.

I have no difficulty with the DRF's being held to account where and when it's reasonable and justified and to my mind, this especially means when the well-being of the state is in question, which, of course, could take many forms. I do draw the line, nevertheless, at personal abuse and character-assassination, without indisputable evidence.

As someone whose Head of State is a Queen, I am very aware of how easy it is to attack, usually anonymously, everything about our monarch, including her family: easy targets all.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 10-17-2007, 12:02 PM
BurberryBrit's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: onthenet, United States
Posts: 1,439
Are some people really planning to storm the palace and rescue Mary?

If this book is translated into English, I'd read it. Like others have said, there's probably a hint of truth and a lot of fluff.

If anything, this book makes me wonder how well Mary is really coping. Even money and possessions and trips get old after a while. I'm sure her children are great source of comfort to her, but it must be really hard being the Crown Princess of Denmark, especially since she wasn't born into a royal life. But I do think Mary was chosen so to speak, so I hope she can deal with it.
__________________
Fr Gott, Frst und Vaterland

"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife" Pride and Prejudice
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 10-17-2007, 12:23 PM
Lilla's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurberryBrit View Post
Are some people really planning to storm the palace and rescue Mary?
No. The post, here on TRF mentioning such plans, are refering to a humorous review made by an australian on Crikey:

Crikey - Princess Mary: Diana with a Dane - Princess Mary: Diana with a Dane
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 10-18-2007, 05:10 PM
norwegianne's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Rogaland, Norway
Posts: 5,995
I mentioned earlier that I had bought the book – and would read it on my train ride. Said, and done. What are my impressions? (Please note – I read the book once, and these are just stream of consciousness thoughts put together immediately after reading the book, on the train. If I read it again, I assume I might consider some things differently. )

After having read it, I find that I don’t fully agree with the reviews I’ve read. Undoubtedly there are more verifiable facts in there other than the year of Margrethe’s ascension, and whatever the rest was. Villemann does not just use the anonymous sources for her book, but also the things the royals have said themselves in authorized biographies and interviews. But at the same time, the whole book should also be taken with pinch of salt because of all the anonymous sources.

Especially events where I doubt there were many present – such as Ingrid’s conversation with Margrethe on Henrik (Oh, Daisy, you’ll think about it – won’t you?) – I find reason to take with an extra pinch of salt, even if a servant might have overheard.

Something I found jarring – but that undoubtedly won’t matter to anyone but me – was her tendency to refer to Crown Prince Haakon as Hkon. It is indeed true that his name is pronounced with an – but it is written with a double a. It’s the same sort of miniscule errors that I find in Hello profiles, that make me wonder how much else hasn’t been caught as errors.

On the positive side – for me as a Norwegian – I think this book has to be one of the few times in Danish media where Mette-Marit and Haakon are compared to Mary and Frederik – and actually come out on top. Nothing bad about Frederik and Mary, but given Mette-Marit’s past, it is interesting to note that Villemann thinks she is finally getting ahead in her role as a Crown Princess.

And while Haakon and Mette-Marit’s oldest daughter, quite verifiably, is called Ingrid – she was not named for Queen Ingrid of Denmark, but Mette-Marit’s grandmother as well as a former Norwegian queen.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 10-18-2007, 05:12 PM
norwegianne's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Rogaland, Norway
Posts: 5,995
But back to the Danish royals. Margrethe’s role as a mother is heavily touched upon, and given the many other discussions on the subject, I’m inclined to think that at least some of Villemann’s assertations might be correct – i.e. Margrethe herself mentioning that she is not much for smaller children, and she prefers to be able to talk to them, as well as Henrik and Frederik’s various interviews on the topic of the childhood of the princes. I think Henrik’s role as a father falls somewhere between Villemann’s pictures, and what he, himself has mentioned earlier.

Villemann mentions that Joachim seems to have weathered the way they were raised in a different way than Frederik – and while she does comment that the lack of parental presence in their lives can be worked into their current lives. She mentions Frederik’s perceived laziness and reluctantness to be king, to use her words, but also points out that Joachim received the same upbringing, and he works royal duties in addition to running his own farm.

It is indeed true that Joachim is one of the “heroes” in this book. While the trips to the discos he engaged in before and while the process of the separation and divorce from Alexandra was a fact, are mentioned – they are not critiqued as heavily as Frederik’s similar trips on town while being out on official missions abroad. Villemann seems to admire Joachim’s abilities in regards to improving his public image.

The divorce is touched upon – but I found it unclear whether the alleged secret that everybody in the circle of friends know about actually was Joachim’s or Alexandra’s secret – but it is of little consequence in the long run – the divorce happened, and one of them is remarried and the other one is also heading that way.

I also found it interesting to note the so-called coldness between Margrethe and Benedikte – Benedikte taking after her mother and being the “most royal” in the royal family (Ingrid was called the most royal in the Swedish royal family) – while Margrethe being more creative. It is difficult to know what is the case and what isn’t – Margrethe herself notes them having problems as kids – but that it was resolved as adults. Of course, spats are normal in every family.

It is interesting that something I perceive as would have been problematic if anyone else had tried it – Ingrid manipulating the politicians around the time of the new constitution – isn’t critiqued as much in the book as I think it would’ve been if someone other than Queen Ingrid had tried it today.

Ingrid is also noted for being an amazing grandmother, who gathered her grandchildren around her on Grsten, and ensured that they would be friends and connected to each other as adults. It is also noted that she allegedly didn’t care much for the Miller family when Marie-Chantal married her grandson – and how they flaunted their wealth. (Marie-Chantal is, allegedly, not very popular in the circle of cousins, either).

Villemann also touches base on the trouble between King Frederik and his younger brother, Knud, and how this touches onto the families even today. One of Knud’s children (it doesn’t say who) talks about it. I think an important thing here today in regards to the old fight and the family trees growing apart – how many of us keep in touch with our cousins and second cousins after the parent generation passes away? From personal experience, I would say that you mostly keep in touch with the ones who you either like a lot, or live close to. It isn’t mandatory to keep in touch with everyone who shares DNA with you.

As for Mary – Villemann seems to have a philosophical approach to her. She is here – and she gives Frederik what he wants – a family. It is mentioned that up until that point, Frederik relates to his girlfriends as a family while he has them, and were friendly with their fathers/brothers, and when the relationship ends he is still friendly with them. I don’t think there is anything really bad written about Mary in the book (for those who wondered) except for her Danish, on the other hand, Prince Henrik’s level of Danish is somewhat put to its right in there.

It is mentioned that Frederik is fantastic in audiences with one or two people, or smaller groups – but become a bit more uncertain and fumbling when he stands in front of an audience, while Mary is the opposite. Villemann thinks that Mary might have a perception as to how a princess should appear, either from before the marriage, or from the “princess school” she was put through, and that shines through on occasions.

Until the last chapter, I see it as a relatively enjoyable read and an excellent way to spend an hour or two on the train if one has nothing else to do.

In the last chapter, however, Trine Villemann seems to have gone through the
“What’s your opinion of Frederik and Mary” here on TRF – as well as the thread about the amount of work Frederik and Mary does – and the book turns more to her personal opinion.

It isn’t because she’s critiquing the royal family in that chapter – just so we’re getting that out of the way – but more how she turns a book that has been mainly a “biographical” account of unknown sources, articles, and royal accounts in connection with biographies et. al. up until that point, to something more reminiscent of a poster on a message board – or a blog. It simply lacks the relative objectivity of the previous chapters. Villemann begins to mix in her personal opinions, which have been relatively absent in the previous chapters.

I am not a fan of that in this context. It feels messy. She could have settled for doing the reporting from the actual sources – Ekstrabladet on the amount of work Frederik and Mary does – and so on, instead of dragging her opinion on the fact that she thinks there are too many people in the Danish succession into the mix – and how to resolve it - by cutting out Elisabeth, Benedikte, Nikolai & Felix. Into the mix she throws some claims that Benedikte should be allowed to live full-time in Germany with her husband, Elisabeth should be allowed to live in southern Europe if she wants to, and Nikolai & Felix should be allowed to live wherever they want.

I’ve done some research – and I can’t find anywhere that says these four people have to live in Denmark. Lex Regia says that they have to ask the monarch for permission when going abroad – but not that they can’t do it, which is what I get from Villemann’s statements. As a Norwegian I do get cutting down on the royal family, but two of these people will disappear from the list from natural causes in not too long (although one does not wish them ill). It seems rather pointless to cut them at this point. It also seems a bit pointless to try to regulate the DRF in who can be in line to the throne and who cannot. History has shown that the DRF by way of the monarch mandating the marriages, have been perfectly able to control itself in that regard.

I also fail to see what the public needs with a complete accounting of the royal bookkeeping – as long as we get the general overview over how much they get, and how much goes where – I really don’t care what Joachim personal’s portion goes to.

I would recommend this book – simply to get a more alternative perspective. It isn’t very sugary, but I wouldn’t say it is overly speculative either. I seem to use the word “relatively” a lot in this post, but I think it is a word that fits it. It is relatively enjoyable book – much like reading a bit more critical version of Billedbladet, but not as critical as Ekstrabladet, to put it in a comparison to the two outlets of royal news in Denmark.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events engagement fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri habsburg hohenzollern infanta sofia jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg ottoman pom president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince felix prince floris prince joachim prince pieter-christiaan princess princess aimee princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marie princess mary princess of asturias queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia spain state visit sweden wedding william winter olympics 2014


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:37 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]