The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Royal Highlights > Royal Library

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #621  
Old 09-06-2008, 11:15 AM
Lilla's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
Well, sometimes you want to help love a bit, and steer it to another direction!
Being royal or not - I do think most parents will do so out of concern for their sons/daughters future happiness. Mine did - and thank god for that!

But, when it comes to a CP so much more are at stake and therefore the task is so much more important. It can not merely be deskribed as "a silly tradition" as Villemann does. It is about protecting both the institution and the son/daughter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
All this love talk is all fine, but the head of state has two roles in this: she is a mother and a head of state. If she does not think a girlfriend is up to the job she should do what she can to protect the institution, even if it means that it is not what her maternal instincts would say!
I totally concur.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #622  
Old 09-06-2008, 11:47 AM
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ***, United States
Posts: 16,897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
I disagree . CP Frederik would never have married Mary if the DRF had not had that silly family tradition. He wanted to marry Katja in 1995, but the Queen would not give her consent, because Katja was Danish.
In reports I read at the time, it was portrayed more along the lines that the Queen thought the lingerie modelling was the problem.

In this day and age of easy international travel and intrusive investigative journalism (at least where celebrities are concerned, if not political figures, but that's another story), I don't see where there's anything to be gained from insisting on a foreign bride. Both Alexandra's and Mary's immediate families ended up in Denmark anyway, and if there were skeletons in the closets of either of the ladies concerned, you can bet that some tabloid reporter or other would have splashed them all over the front pages.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #623  
Old 09-06-2008, 11:59 AM
Al_bina's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: City, Kazakhstan
Posts: 5,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
I disagree . CP Frederik would never have married Mary if the DRF had not had that silly family tradition. He wanted to marry Katja in 1995, but the Queen would not give her consent, because Katja was Danish.
Personally I do not think that Crown Princess Frederic loved Katja enough to stand for her. The bright exapmle is that of Crown Prince Haakon, who did insist on marrying the person he loves in spite of unfavourable factors such a child and tarnished reputation. Crown Prince Frederic married Miss Donadlson without being pressured into doing so. I highly doubt that he followed his mother's order.
__________________
"I never did mind about the little things" Amanda, "Point of No Return"
Reply With Quote
  #624  
Old 09-06-2008, 01:47 PM
Odette's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 2,481
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
The English though still favor an English bride for their future King. Look at who William is dating.

Actually the last true foreign Princess of Wales was Alexandra of Denmark who always retained her first love for her home country of Denmark. Mary was a German princess who had been raised as an Englishwoman and Prince Philip had been raised as an Englishman.

I don't know if other countries have these unspoken rules about who their Crown Prince should marry but England and Denmark seem to have the belief that the heir to the English throne should marry an Englishwoman and the heir to the Danish throne should marry a non-Dane.
I have to admit I have no opinion on the subject and did not read the book yet. However I wonder if at the time, Margrethe, Benedikte and Anne Marie were coming of age, if there were any eligible Danish nobles or aristocrats they could have married without contracting unequal marriages.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #625  
Old 09-06-2008, 02:43 PM
Viv's Avatar
Viv Viv is offline
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Funen, Denmark
Posts: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odette View Post
However I wonder if at the time, Margrethe, Benedikte and Anne Marie were coming of age, if there were any eligible Danish nobles or aristocrats they could have married without contracting unequal marriages.
There were no doubt some eligible Danish nobles in the 1960s, but I
don't know whether these paths were ever explored! I take it that
they would have been barred by the foreign-spouse principle as well!
Any such marriage would have been unequal by the old standards.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #626  
Old 09-06-2008, 03:00 PM
Odette's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 2,481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viv View Post
There were no doubt some eligible Danish nobles in the 1960s, but I
don't know whether these paths were ever explored! I take it that
they would have been barred by the foreign-spouse principle as well!
Any such marriage would have been unequal by the old standards.
Thank you Viv. I suppose then P Anne Marie did not give time for anyone to question her choices. She gave an interview much later and said that if Theodora had announced at 16 that she was getting engaged, she'd be very surprised and upset........
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #627  
Old 09-07-2008, 06:23 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 802
Well Queen Margrethe has repeated the whole 'Danish royals marrying foreigner's rule? tradition? understanding? Whatever people prefer to call it. From the new book Three Sisters by historian Jon Bloch Skipper who interviewed Margrethe, Benedikte and Anne-Marie for the book. Taken from an extract from Billed Bladet

Quote:
Queen Margrethe: "I think that was the one understood thing in our childhood, that we married someone who had not been brought up in Denmark. We three sisters knew instinctively that it would probably be a bright thing if we did not fall head over heels in love with a Dane. And that's how it still is. It's a good idea".
Royalty or not is not a problem when marrying.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #628  
Old 09-07-2008, 06:37 AM
Lilla's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Personally I do not think that Crown Princess Frederic loved Katja enough to stand for her. The bright exapmle is that of Crown Prince Haakon, who did insist on marrying the person he loves in spite of unfavourable factors such a child and tarnished reputation. Crown Prince Frederic married Miss Donadlson without being pressured into doing so. I highly doubt that he followed his mother's order.
I totally concur!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte1 View Post
Queen Margrethe: "I think that was the one understood thing in our childhood, that we married someone who had not been brought up in Denmark. We three sisters knew instinctively that it would probably be a bright thing if we did not fall head over heels in love with a Dane. And that's how it still is. It's a good idea".
Exactly - I concur with that as well!

Marrying spouses brought up outside Denmark isn't a "tradition" as Villeman claims or a "foreign-spouse principle" as Viv has written nor it is an order issued by the Queen to her two sons. It is simply a very good idea!!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #629  
Old 09-07-2008, 09:15 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilla View Post
I totally concur!



Exactly - I concur with that as well!

Marrying spouses brought up outside Denmark isn't a "tradition" as Villeman claims or a "foreign-spouse principle" as Viv has written nor it is an order issued by the Queen to her two sons. It is simply a very good idea!!
When something has been done in a family for several generations, I think the correct term is "tradition." And this tradition is a lousy idea. It has had huge personal consequences for both Frederik and Joachim, which you would know if you had read my book!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
In reports I read at the time, it was portrayed more along the lines that the Queen thought the lingerie modelling was the problem.

In this day and age of easy international travel and intrusive investigative journalism (at least where celebrities are concerned, if not political figures, but that's another story), I don't see where there's anything to be gained from insisting on a foreign bride. Both Alexandra's and Mary's immediate families ended up in Denmark anyway, and if there were skeletons in the closets of either of the ladies concerned, you can bet that some tabloid reporter or other would have splashed them all over the front pages.
Exactly, Elspeth. There is nothing to be gained, yet the Queen would not give her consent for Frederik to marry Katja because she was Danish. It was not the underwear. It was her nationality. Katja comes from a very well respected family. Her father, Mogens, has known prince Henrik for years. They are a lovely family and Frederik was extremely fond of all of them. He recently met Katja's parents in Beijing and stopped for a long chat. The Storkholms would not in any way, shape or form have embarrassed the royal house. It was all because of this sily family tradition.
__________________
My book on the Danish Royal Family
www.1015copenhagenk.com
Reply With Quote
  #630  
Old 09-07-2008, 09:36 AM
Lilla's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
It has had huge personal consequences for both Frederik and Joachim, which you would know if you had read my book!
As I have written earlier - when you postulated I had not read your book - I borrowed it at the library and have read parts of it - not all - but enough.

Futhermore your book isn't the ever lasting version of the truth, which you would know if you had read all the posts on this thread and also used just a bit of common sense.

When it comes to your claim of "huge personal consequences for both Frederik and Joachim"......this is entirely speculations made by you -nothing else.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #631  
Old 09-07-2008, 10:06 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilla View Post
As I have written earlier - when you postulated I had not read your book - I borrowed it at the library and have read parts of it - not all - but enough.

Futhermore your book isn't the ever lasting version of the truth, which you would know if you had read all the posts on this thread and also used just a bit of common sense.

When it comes to your claim of "huge personal consequences for both Frederik and Joachim"......this is entirely speculations made by you -nothing else.
Well,Lila, you must have skipped the parts of "1015 Copenhagen K," where I specifically touch on how it impacted Frederik's and Joachim's lives, that they knew they had to find their bride abroad. Never mind, you can always take my book out from the library again!I know there is a waiting list for my book in many libraries in your area, but you should be able to read 1015 thoroughly within a few weeks!
__________________
My book on the Danish Royal Family
www.1015copenhagenk.com
Reply With Quote
  #632  
Old 09-07-2008, 10:20 AM
MARG's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 4,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
It has had huge personal consequences for both Frederik and Joachim, which you would know if you had read my book!
I will admit that I have not read your book. However, when it comes to making sweeping statements about the (very) intimate lives of the Crown Prince of Denmark and his younger brother on this forum, I believe you absolutely have to have either "Frederik" or "Joachim" told me"! Nothing less will do.

You refuse to even name your sources but rather expect us to take such a sweeping statement as that at face value? I don't think so.

As a definitive work of history, a book with no photos, no table of contents, no index nor authenticated quotes and sources is called an Historical Novel. A work of fiction, which can and should be read and enjoyed for what it is.
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
Reply With Quote
  #633  
Old 09-07-2008, 10:46 AM
Viv's Avatar
Viv Viv is offline
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Funen, Denmark
Posts: 740
Do split hairs, if you insist ! Whether you chloose to call it a tradition,
a matter of principle or something else I think we have to remember,
that there are some serious deliberations behind the issue!

The paradigm shifted after WW2, when the protestant monarchies
were running short of eligible princes. It would have been interesting if
we could have been flies on the walls of the Northern European
royal palaces in the late 1950s and 60s! The RFs had to reconsider the
"market" and their marriage prospects with four princesses in the Netherlands,
three in Denmark, four in Sweden, and if we include the UK at least
one (Alexandra of Kent), who were all in or approaching the marriageable
age.

Each of these RFs has handled the "eligibles" problem differently,
and I will abstain from judging which has done the best job in this
respect. The Brits seem to shun anything even remotely German-blooded;
but then again they have a population of 60 mill. as a recruitment
base.

I know a lot of rumours from the time as to who should marry whom,
but it was just rumours and speculations and I'll leave it there,
or else, Lilla will be after me with a long stick!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #634  
Old 09-07-2008, 10:48 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I will admit that I have not read your book. However, when it comes to making sweeping statements about the (very) intimate lives of the Crown Prince of Denmark and his younger brother on this forum, I believe you absolutely have to have either "Frederik" or "Joachim" told me"! Nothing less will do.

You refuse to even name your sources but rather expect us to take such a sweeping statement as that at face value? I don't think so.

As a definitive work of history, a book with no photos, no table of contents, no index nor authenticated quotes and sources is called an Historical Novel. A work of fiction, which can and should be read and enjoyed for what it is.
Well, if you have not read my book, maybe you should read it and then post your comments? There are, by the way, photos in the Danish edition of the book. The lack of an index, I have explained in an earlier post.
__________________
My book on the Danish Royal Family
www.1015copenhagenk.com
Reply With Quote
  #635  
Old 09-07-2008, 10:54 AM
Warren's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 15,423
A reminder that this thread was reopened to allow those who have read the book (preferably all of it) to discuss its contents.

thanks,
Warren
Administrator
__________________
Seeking information? Check out the extensive Royal A-Z
Reply With Quote
  #636  
Old 09-07-2008, 10:55 AM
Lilla's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
Never mind, you can always take my book out from the library again!I know there is a waiting list for my book in many libraries in your area, but you should be able to read 1015 thoroughly within a few weeks!
I don't need to. I have read a very big part and skimed through the rest.

As for the waitinglist in my area - there is non which this link confirms:

https://stormp.kk.dk/sites/XWW/pub/search.html
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #637  
Old 09-07-2008, 11:00 AM
Lilla's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viv View Post
Lilla will be after me with a long stick!
No, Viv - not a stick - a club
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #638  
Old 09-07-2008, 11:03 AM
Empress's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 3,123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
Well,Lila, you must have skipped the parts of "1015 Copenhagen K," where I specifically touch on how it impacted Frederik's and Joachim's lives, that they knew they had to find their bride abroad. Never mind, you can always take my book out from the library again!I know there is a waiting list for my book in many libraries in your area, but you should be able to read 1015 thoroughly within a few weeks!

Frankly, I doubt that you would know how these actions or non actions have affected their lives unless you have spoken to them personally. And I have serious doubts that you have. The only person who can ever say that something has affected their lives, especially significantly, is the person in question. I would not presume to say that your writing this book has significantly affected your life, because I am not you, so I don't pretend to speak for you. It goes the same with all people.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #639  
Old 09-07-2008, 11:08 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilla View Post
I don't need to. I have read a very big part and skimed through the rest.

As for the waitinglist in my area - there is non which this link confirms:

https://stormp.kk.dk/sites/XWW/pub/search.html
Well, that's excellent! Your local library must have bought a lot of copies, then. I can not open your link, but I take your word for itI would still suggest, you take my book out again, so you can re-read the passages, where I describe the impact it has had on Frederik and Joachim, that they were not allowed to marry Danish girls.
__________________
My book on the Danish Royal Family
www.1015copenhagenk.com
Reply With Quote
  #640  
Old 09-07-2008, 11:09 AM
ashelen's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: la, United States
Posts: 2,420
Regarding that both of them they have to married a foreign lady i wonder how would have worked if this foreign lady was a daughter of a danish father with noble ancestros?
__________________

__________________
Ashelen
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth charlene crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge dutch royal history engagement fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg nobility olympics ottoman poland president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince felipe prince floris prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marilene princess mary princess mary fashion princess of asturias queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit the hague visit wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:55 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]