"1015 København K" - Trine Villemann

[PrincessofEurope]

Originally Posted by Villemann

Thanks, Norwegianne. "1015 Copenhagen K" has been selected by Majesty Magazine as Book of the Month in October.

Does this mean that we will be able to purchase the English version from the Majesty store?

You must be pleased that Majesty has recognised you hard work by highlighting your book in this way

ive now noticed it on Amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

[denice]

I agree. I read the book expecting wild claims, nothing but heresay and gossip. I enjoyed the book. I thought it was well written and presented the authors views as to the future of the Danish monarchy.

[HRH Abigail]

Originally Posted by denice

I agree. I read the book expecting wild claims, nothing but heresay and gossip. I enjoyed the book. I thought it was well written and presented the authors views as to the future of the Danish monarchy.

Yes, Denice. Same here, as you now know.
Considering what the book might have been, owing to Trine Villeman's connections and what-not (where she's worked in The Danish Media), this book could have been far, far worse. At least that is my opinion ...
One of the most scandalous revelations for me, was that the former Princess Alexandra was a bit of a Harridan and Harpie, who hen-pecked Joachim a bit, but ... really, all she really was, that perhaps any man can relate to (?) is the proverbial "nagging wife", from time to time.
Villeman does take care to point out what a lovely looking woman she is and is a good mum, too! I mean, you never come away with the idea that the authour is "catty" or anything, or just want to dish dirt and that's that ...
And lest one thinks that Joachim is just a wuss and nothing more, Trine also takes care to point out his good qualities, his kingly qualities (if you will) and even recounts an episode where he did the firing! That is, she gives balance to all the "characters" within The Danish RF.

Denise, call me Abbie, please. Thanks HRH Abigail was just a name I use so as to fit into posting to a royal forum,

PS / EDIT -- Oh, I almost forgot to mention something. What I continually found to be another scandalous revelation in reading Trine's book was the fact that Danish royals are forbidden to marry ... *gasp* their own kind, Danes! This is what really fries my mind, to be honest with you. Granted, the infusion of foreign blood must be thought of as being somewhat exotic, refreshing and whatever, but still ... It is my opinion that maybe Joachim might have had a happier first marriage IF he had been allowed to marry the steady G/F with whom he was allegedly so besotted, as Trine recounts in her book. The one, he was avidly dating at the time he met the lovely Alexandra in HK.

Originally Posted by PrincessofEurope

Does this mean that we will be able to purchase the English version from the Majesty store?

You must be pleased that Majesty has recognised you hard work by highlighting your book in this way

ive now noticed it on Amazon
Amazon.co.uk: 1015 Copenhagen K: Mary's Dysfunctional In-laws: Villemann Trine: Books

Oh, cool!

Now, I e-mailed info@andartespress.com, addressed my correspondence to Malcolm Brabant and then asked how I might go about purchasing Trine's (that's his wife) book.
Good luck!

-- Abbie

[Elspeth]

I found this book very interesting in the way it described the relationships and personalities among the Danish royals. The parallels with the British royals were quite striking, with the rather emotionally detached monarch who had somewhat unexpectedly become heir to the throne as a pre-teen and had then succeeded to the throne as a young mother, the rather disciplinarian consort who in some ways resented his inferior status, the diffident heir to the throne with a more assertive younger sibling (whose marriage ended in divorce), the iron-fist-in-velvet-glove Queen Mother who somewhat dominated her daughter (to say nothing of dominating her somewhat weaker husband during his lifetime), and a semi-detached branch of the royal family who had seniority to the current monarch but had been removed from the line of succession for pragmatic reasons in a manner that had the Queen Mother's fingerprints all over it. I was getting flashes of deja vu in chapter after chapter.

From the title, with its "Mary's dysfunctional in-laws" subtitle, I was expecting Mary to figure more prominently, and I was quite glad to see that she didn't. The book devotes a chapter to each of the main players in the royal family and a chapter to the branch of the family that was shunted aside to make way for Queen Margrethe. Trine makes the different characters come alive very effectively; you end the book feeling that you know them as people rather than just as names and photos. However, there's quite a lot of bias in the descriptions; as others have noted, Alexandra is portrayed as quite a formidable young lady, and Frederik comes across, frankly, as a basket case. I've asked other people about Frederik and been told by most of them that they think he's been treated rather harshly in this book. I definitely got the impression that Trine wasn't trying for an "official biography" level of objectivity but was presenting the characters very much as she personally saw them. Not that that's a problem; it's just that if you're looking for scholarly objectivity along with reams of explanatory footnotes, this isn't the place to look.

Having told the stories of all the members of the family including Mary, Trine ends the book with a look to the future and an exhortation to Mary to try and undo all the decades of damage wrought on Frederik by his upbringing. Personally I think she's being too optimistic and too pessimistic at the same time - I don't know that a wife (as opposed to a mental-health professional) would be capable of rescuing Frederik if he really is the basket case he was presented as being, and from what I've seen in the threads here and from talking with my Danish aunt, I don't get the impression that Denmark is in imminent danger of becoming a republic if Mary fails in this task. I hope we're still at the point where the monarchy is greater than the failings of one individual. However, time will tell. It's certainly a bold prescription for the future, whether you agree with it or not.

I do have some reservations about the book, mostly ones that have already been voiced by others. The lack of named sources is a significant weakness, although I know that to an extent it's an unavoidable one. Most royal biographies, whether academic or popular, do manage to include a list of people who talked on the record as well as the inevitable "a friend of the Prince" and "a source close to the Queen" who had no choice but to remain anonymous. This book has only one. We don't have much more than the author's word for it that all the sources are genuine and have been quoted accurately. English-speaking readers who aren't familiar with the author's work as a journalist will be pretty much in the dark in that respect.

I also wasn't thrilled with some avoidable examples of crudeness, which, especially given that we're dealing with a translation, could have been handled more sensitively. In some places the descriptions go beyond trying to be illuminating and become downright intrusive. I think that, given the problem with the lack of sources mentioned above, this gives a rather sensationalist and tabloid feel to parts of the book which would have been a lot better avoided, especially by an author who says she's generally supportive of the monarchy.

The book has no photos, table of contents, or index, which tends to give the impression of a lightweight volume. I'd recommend the inclusion at least of an index in Trine's next book. When reading or even just skimming through books about Princess Diana (as an example of a subject who's been written about many times by many people at many levels of seriousness), you can often get a fairly good idea of whether the book is substantive or just froth-for-profit if you just look to see if there's an index. I realise that the English-language edition of this book was self-published and there was probably a lot of incentive to keep production costs low, but if a book gives the impression of being cheap, there's a danger that this impression will subconsciously carry over from the production to the content.

All in all, I'd say that this book is a fascinating read and an easy introduction to the personalities behind the masks of the Danish royals. However, it doesn't hurt to bear in mind that it's a pretty subjective and (as Trine says) controversial account, which has generated a lot of opposition from other journalists and authors, and the lack of named sources means that it isn't very well authenticated. So I don't think it can safely be taken as an authoritative last word on the Danish royal family, but then I don't think it was meant to be. It's a very entertaining piece of work nevertheless.

[UserDane]

Originally Posted by HRH Abigail

...another scandalous revelation in reading Trine's book was the fact that Danish royals are forbidden to marry ... *gasp* their own kind, Danes!

They are I know that a number of them have found spouses abroad - but forbidden?? - that is news to me.

Is this a 'Villeman truth' (= subjective idea presented as fact) or is it actually written down somewhere?

[Madame Royale]

I think we need to start a thread called 'Ask Elspeth'...hehe.

I really enjoyed reading your account. Thanks for sharing.

[HRH Abigail]

I agree with your review of this book, Elspeth.

I think that Trine was caught, as we say, "between a rock and a hard place". She might have worked within Royal circles and associated with folks that she could never name in her book.
Hence, she could never even thought to have named sources, that she might have been able to do otherwise.

I think Trine V. did the best that she could, given what she had, combined with her journalistic ethics, under the circumstances.

The book impressed me and could have been, as I have posted, far more revealing than it was.

[Sg1fan]

Are the Greek Royals mentioned at all...in particular Niko?

[Villemann]

Originally Posted by Sg1fan

Are the Greek Royals mentioned at all...in particular Niko?

Very little mentioning of the Greek Royals, I am afraid. I explain a bit about the relationship amongst Queen Ingrid's grandchildren and why Pavlos is no longer as close to his Danish cousins as he used to be - and give the background for the special bond between CP Frederik and Alexia.

[Villemann]

Originally Posted by PrincessofEurope

Does this mean that we will be able to purchase the English version from the Majesty store?

You must be pleased that Majesty has recognised you hard work by highlighting your book in this way

ive now noticed it on Amazon
Amazon.co.uk: 1015 Copenhagen K: Mary's Dysfunctional In-laws: Villemann Trine: Books

Yes, it is my understanding that it will be on sale from the Majesty store. I am delighted, naturally, that they have chosen "1015 Copenhagen K" because Majesty's people read a lot of books about royals.

[Villemann]

Originally Posted by UserDane

They are I know that a number of them have found spouses abroad - but forbidden?? - that is news to me.

Is this a 'Villeman truth' (= subjective idea presented as fact) or is it actually written down somewhere?

It is a family tradition - confirmed by the Queen herself in many interviews - that the Danish royals find their spouses abroad. It is not written in the Constitution or anything, but it is a tradition that goes back many generations. It has had some dire consequences for a few of the royals - as I explain in the book.

[kimebear]

I had thought that it was because they wanted to give the impression that the heirs would not choose just one particular Danish woman over the others. Is this not so?

[Lilla]

Originally Posted by Villemann

It is a family tradition - confirmed by the Queen herself in many interviews - that the Danish royals find their spouses abroad..

This is your interpretation Villemann. Don't manipulate by using the Queen as source to your interpretations. Manipulations seldom are perceived well when exposed - you are only damaging your own reliability.

Originally Posted by Villemann

It is not written in the Constitution or anything..

Exactly. The claim in your book is untruthful.

Originally Posted by Villemann

but it is a tradition that goes back many generations.

No, not a tradition - and has never been so. Historical it has been a question of politics. Marriage was used to build alliances across a split Europe often haunted by wars between various nations, including Denmark. Building alliances this way has no value anymore. The times of marrying for necessity is over. The royals can marry for love.

As for the claim of Danish royals not marrying Danes - here is a list of Danish Queens who were actually born Danish:

Queen Dagmar (1186 - 1212) married to Valdemar the Victorious
Queen Hedvig ( ? - 1374) married to Erik the Second
Queen Anna Sophie (1693 -1743) married to Frederik the Fourth
Queen Caroline Amalie (1796 - 1881) married to Frederik the Eighth

These are only the Danish born Queens. I bet if a study was made into how many Danish princes and princesses (not first in line to the throne) actually married Danish borne spouses - their will be a lot. But to my knowledge such a study has never been made.

As Frederik the Eighth was married to a Danish born Queen I guess your definition of "many generations" must be - four. After him comes Christian the Tenth, then Frederik the Ninth and then Queen Margrethe and then Fred. That is 4 generations out of 54 generations of Danish Kings and Queens.

Anyway fact is: King Frederik the Ninth was married to a Swede and all of his three daughters found their husbands outside Denmark and his two grandchildren Frederik and Joachim also found their wives outside Denmark.

It is not a tradition and not a rule. It just happens to be so for a variety of reasons. You are free to make your interpretations and theories upon that fact. But claiming your interpretations and theories to be the truth - is unreliable.

Originally Posted by Villemann

It has had some dire consequences for a few of the royals - as I explain in the book.

Yes, at this day and age, the times of marrying for necessity is over. The royals can marry for love - IMO that is great.

[Viv]

Previously it was a non-issue as royalty had to marry royalty;
they would normally have to look abroad for a marriage prospect!

Nowadays the reason for the preference of foreign spouses is diffferent.
HM has said that the princes were told that " it would be a very good
idea to marry a foreigner, as they arrive with no strings attached" (sic)-
What she really means is that the past of the commoner spouse will
not be walking among us; the silly, drunkard uncle will be at a safe
distance, so will former sweethearts or whatever had better be
swept under the carpet!

The question is whether her point of view holds water in the age of
the electronic highway?

In the newly published " Three sisters" HM tells that her mother, the
late Queen Ingrid told her daugthers to marry foreigners. So that's
where she got it from! Pcs. Anne-Marie took matters in her own
hands whereas the two elder sisters had to shop around for a while.
In the mid-60s Pcs. rumours linked Pcs. Margrethe to a seemingly
suitable Danish diplomat. If there ever were any mutual interest
between the parties it would have been blocked by Queen Ingrid
at an early stage!

[Lilla]

Originally Posted by Viv

Nowadays the reason for the preference of foreign spouses is diffferent.
HM has said that the princes were told that " it would be a very good
idea to marry a foreigner, as they arrive with no strings attached" (sic)-

Can you please reveal your source, Viv?

Originally Posted by Viv

What she really means is that the past of the commoner spouse will
not be walking among us; the silly, drunkard uncle will be at a safe
distance, so will former sweethearts or whatever had better be
swept under the carpet!

Is this your interpritation Viv, or do you have a source?

[Viv]

Originally Posted by Lilla

Can you please reveal your source, Viv?

Of course Lilla. Please see "Margrethe" by Annelise Bistrup, Politiken 2005
p. 263!

Originally Posted by Lilla

Is this your interpritation Viv, or do you have a source?

Hopefully it is clear that it is my interpretation of the following
statement of HM: (again p.263!)
"One arrives with what the English call "No strings attached". There
is a past of course, but it doesn't walk among us in the streets".

[Lilla]

Originally Posted by Viv

Hopefully it is clear that it is my interpretation of the following statement of HM: (again p.263!)
"One arrives with what the English call "No strings attached". There
is a past of course, but it doesn't walk among us in the streets".

Thanks a lot Viv . And yes I did read your post as your interpretation but I wasn't quit certain - hence my question.

My interpritation of HM's words (the quotation is underneath) is that this is a concerned mother and Queen giving her sons some very good and sensible advice knowing that their future wives will not only be marrying her sons but also the nation of which she is Queen. Her argument is not the coldhearted "It is tradition to marry a foreigner" as Villeman seems to claims. It is "no strings attached" which you clarify so very well with your interpretation.

Anyway I don't think she has a heart of stone. If Mary had been born in Denmark she would still have endet up as Frederiks wife. Norway and Denmark dosen't differ that much.

Besides, a foreigner marrying a Danish prince becomes a Danish citizen and as such a Dane - so what's the problem?

Originally Posted by Viv

it would be a very good
idea to marry a foreigner, as they arrive with no strings attached"".

[enneagramj]

It may also have to do with the fact that many Danish princes in the 20th century who married Danes lost their titles and styles. By marrying foreigners, Danish royals did not have to open that can of worms.

[Viv]

Originally Posted by Lilla

Thanks a lot Viv . And yes I did read your post as your interpretation but I wasn't quit certain - hence my question.

My interpritation of the quotation underneath of HM's words is that this is a concerned mother and Queen giving her sons some very good and sensible advice knowing that their wives will not only be marrieing her sons but also the nation of which she is Queen. But I don't think she has a heart of stone. If Mary had been born in Denmark she would still have endet up as Frederiks wife. Norway and Denmark dosen't differ that much.

You mean, would CP Frederik have been allowed to marry Mary had she been Danish?
Lilla, I doubt it!

Maybe Katja Storkholm would have made a good CPss, maybe Bettina Ødum would! The question is whether they ever were under consideration? Regarding Prince Joachim: Long time girl friend Iben Detlefs was invited to one of the private parties at Fredensborg (1992 HM & HRH's Silver wedding); one year later Joachim found himself on a plane to Hong Kong. Was it a cooling- off period rather than an internship with Maersk? (If it was, the regal couple must live to regret it! )

The trouble with HM's statements is that she makes a lot of reservations, circumlocutions, filling words and phrases. She uses the subjunctive (konjunktiv) mode a lot! She is very careful not to make her statements too definite!

e.g. "From early on I let them (the princes) understand that it would
not be unwise if they married someone from abroad." (Margrethe p.263)

What do you think, Lilla?
Did HM actually tell "the boys" to marry a foreigner, or did she just
suggest that it would not be a bad idea? I suppose both
interpretations are possible, however seen in the usual Margrethe-
context, I'm more inclined to the first !

[Lilla]

Originally Posted by Viv

Maybe Katja Storkholm would have made a good CPss, maybe Bettina Ødum would! The question is whether they ever were under consideration?

The question is - were they just girlfriends - just the same way as I had boyfriends whom I dumped after us being together for years?

Originally Posted by Viv

however seen in the usual Margrethe-
context, I'm more inclined to the first !

That is speculating. Anyway I have no idea what the usual Margrethe-context is - the frasing in itselfe lead to the word speculation.

But all in all, what I think Viv is, this discussion of ours is about nothing but speculations. I prefere facts.

I accept that there are things going on that neither I nor you or Villemann knows anything about and when one person interpret/speculate one thing - another person just as easily can come up with the opposite. Speculating or interpreting will never provide the truths - only speculations.

The posts om this thread is a very good example of that, the last of youres, the previous of mine and this included

But yes, knowing I am speculating, I am convinced Frederik would have ended up marrying Mary - also if she was born Danish.