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  #481  
Old 08-16-2008, 02:33 PM
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No, it won't be deleted.
If Frederik is shy by nature, it's no great comfort for him to be reminded of the fact. I'm sure he's well aware of it and the difficulties and limitations it imposes.
Shy monarchs are not new. In the British sphere George V and George VI were shy, and even Elizabeth II is said to retain an element of her girlish shyness. Self-effacement and understated modesty may even endear a monarch to his or her people.
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  #482  
Old 08-16-2008, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
As for my anonymous sources. Well, not all of my sources are anonymous. - which you would know, if you had read 1015! This morning I had a lovely PM from a member of this forum. The person has read my book and enjoyed it. The member also said in the PM that her/she - after having read my book- understood why my sources had to remain nameless. It was my biggest concern about the whole project, but I still fail to seee why resepected newspapers like IHT, NY Times etc. etc. can use anonymous sources, without anyone howling at them, but I can't. I did not invent the use of anonymous sources. It is a tool a journalist uses in order to get to the truth.
Journalists and authors across the board use anonymous sources when they're writing about royals, but they do it for a variety of reasons. Some of the most respected biographers - the likes of Sarah Bradford and Philip Ziegler - use anonymous sources because that's the only way they can get people with substantive information to talk to them. Some of the less respected biographers and tabloid reporters resort to "a source close to" or "a friend of" or whatever to cover the fact that they're simply writing their own opinions. That becomes fairly obvious when you look at some of their older books or articles and compare them with how reality actually turned out.

So it then comes down to the way the author is perceived in general as to how seriously people are going to take the "anonymous source close to..." information. Sarah Bradford and Philip Ziegler can plausibly be compared to the New York Times or the Washington Post or the IHT. An author like Lady Colin Campbell and journalists like some of the Daily Mail's finest probably can't. I guess as far as how people perceive your use of anonymous sources, it depends on their opinion of your overall track record.
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  #483  
Old 08-16-2008, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Journalists and authors across the board use anonymous sources when they're writing about royals, but they do it for a variety of reasons. Some of the most respected biographers - the likes of Sarah Bradford and Philip Ziegler - use anonymous sources because that's the only way they can get people with substantive information to talk to them. Some of the less respected biographers and tabloid reporters resort to "a source close to" or "a friend of" or whatever to cover the fact that they're simply writing their own opinions. That becomes fairly obvious when you look at some of their older books or articles and compare them with how reality actually turned out.

So it then comes down to the way the author is perceived in general as to how seriously people are going to take the "anonymous source close to..." information. Sarah Bradford and Philip Ziegler can plausibly be compared to the New York Times or the Washington Post or the IHT. An author like Lady Colin Campbell and journalists like some of the Daily Mail's finest probably can't. I guess as far as how people perceive your use of anonymous sources, it depends on their opinion of your overall track record.
And how about the fact that NONE of the information has been rebutted! I have not been asked to correct a single word in that book - not by the palace nor by anyone else!
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  #484  
Old 08-16-2008, 04:49 PM
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Who is there to rebut information presented in the book? Traditionally royals avoid rebutting or commenting on books/articles about them.
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  #485  
Old 08-16-2008, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress View Post
The NY Times and IHT and other WELL ESTABLISHED publications can use anonymous sources occasionally and more often because they have a long history of publishing the truth, have often named their sources, and would like to keep the reputation of being an honest truthful publications, therefore they are not likely to deceive their readership. I'm sorry, but I don't think that you can compare your book to the NY Times, or other well established publications. They have YEARS of reporting behind them, and their sources are generally impeccable. They don't write whole diatribes or newspapers or books filled with unnamed sources. At times yes, but they do try to avoid it.

Furthermore, the NY Times, IHT, Washington Post, etc have editorial boards through which the "anonymous sources" must be verifiable. Each anonymous source statement must be backed up by documentation and/or another verifiable source, before an anonymous source story may be used. If you would like proof of this manner of doing things, I would be more than happy to provide you with verifiable documentation/ verifiable source.
I have YEARS of reporting on the royals behind me. Why does that not count, when it obviously counts for the journalists at N.Y.Times? I tried to avoids anonymous sources too, and IF you had read my book, you would know they are not all anonymous. I had an "editorial board " as well, because I had an editor - one of the best in the business - who was constantly on my case about documentation.
Not one single episode, incident, anecdote whatever in my book has ever been rebutted. No one has ever asked me to correct a single word. My book is as solid as the N.Y. Times!
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  #486  
Old 08-16-2008, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Binz View Post
Thank you very much Lena!

As a shy person myself (like Frederik), I just love it beeing called a laughing stock. No, for shy people it's not a "comfort" if one of "us" is called a laughing stock. Having problems with expressing oneself in public is just one of "our" problems. Guess how many "we" are.

Sadly I'm sure this message will be very soon deleted.
Actually, CP Frederik, IMO, is not shy. He is the most charming, outgoing chap you can imagine, when you have him one-on-one and even in a small, private crowd. His problems start, when he has to perform. When he has to be a royal, cut the ribbon, make the speech, answer the questions etc. etc.
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  #487  
Old 08-16-2008, 05:02 PM
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Maybe you should think about making your book a little more available than just through your website if you would like get more readers to comment. I understand that presumably you were trying to keep prices down, but if you want a wider readership, making it available on amazon or the like could only help your sales. The people unwilling to pay so much for a copy could still buy directly from you, in MY opinion.
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  #488  
Old 08-16-2008, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Who is there to rebut information presented in the book? Traditionally royals avoid rebutting or commenting on books/articles about them.
The palace has a press secretary, who can act if need be. Royals do not avoid commenting on books. They just do it, when they feel like it. Like CP Mary did in the big interview in Berlingske Tidende in December 2007, when she said that she appreciated that some bookstores - the one in Fredensborg - would not selll my book. Other people, mentioned in my book could have complained - or even sued me. So far, I haven't heard a word from anyone!
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  #489  
Old 08-16-2008, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by kimebear View Post
Maybe you should think about making your book a little more available than just through your website if you would like get more readers to comment. I understand that presumably you were trying to keep prices down, but if you want a wider readership, making it available on amazon or the like could only help your sales. The people unwilling to pay so much for a copy could still buy directly from you, in MY opinion.
We are very happy doing it from my website. People get a discount directly and we see no reason to let amazon sell it. It doesn't really matter if you click on amazon or my website. The only difference is, that amazon gets the discount, not the buyer! If you feel that not enough people have read it to keep this thread open, I am cool about that.
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  #490  
Old 08-16-2008, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
We are very happy doing it from my website. People get a discount directly and we see no reason to let amazon sell it. It doesn't really matter if you click on amazon or my website. The only difference is, that amazon gets the discount, not the buyer! If you feel that not enough people have read it to keep this thread open, I am cool about that.
I support your decision, Trine.
I am just so glad to see you posting here, with us, and not being at all afraid to face some criticism of your book, which has engendered a lot of controversy. I admire your courage and forthcomingness. I also understand why you cannot name your sources and other impediments to writing a book of this nature, and having others unanimously praise it.

-- Abbie
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  #491  
Old 08-16-2008, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
I have been to Japan and have actually met members of your imperial family. It was a fantastic experience.
I would like nothing better than to go to Japan at this point!
I saw the film "Lost in translation" (dir. by Sofia Coppola) and it made me fall in love with that country!

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  #492  
Old 08-16-2008, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
The palace has a press secretary, who can act if need be. Royals do not avoid commenting on books. They just do it, when they feel like it. Like CP Mary did in the big interview in Berlingske Tidende in December 2007, when she said that she appreciated that some bookstores - the one in Fredensborg - would not selll my book. Other people, mentioned in my book could have complained - or even sued me. So far, I haven't heard a word from anyone!
Well, if CP Mary commented on bookstores not carrying your book, and that she appreciated it, then it's a clear indication to ME that she does not think much of your book, and therefore will not waste much time rebutting what she apparently considers nothing more than nonsense and personal opinions.

One person does not an editorial board make. And the publication that you reported for do not have the same standing in my eyes as the NY Times or Washington Post, or IHT. Not that I am saying that you are a tabloid journalist, but even they can say that they have years of reporting behind them. That certainly does not make them credible in my eyes. Especially when they are incapable of maintaining objectivity. That is the key to good journalism to me.
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  #493  
Old 08-16-2008, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Binz View Post
Thank you very much Lena!

As a shy person myself (like Frederik), I just love it beeing called a laughing stock. No, for shy people it's not a "comfort" if one of "us" is called a laughing stock. Having problems with expressing oneself in public is just one of "our" problems. Guess how many "we" are.

Sadly I'm sure this message will be very soon deleted.
Wow, for a shy person, you have quite a sharp tongue on the net
I don´t see, where you see, that I was refering to his rhetorical skills as possible reason for being a possible laughing stock. The sentence was connected with "and" and there was an "e.g." related to comfort.
For me personally he is rather a laughing stock for e.g. peeing from a yacht...or for sulking and attacking provoking journalists like this Jan Körner guy by saying, that he would always work.
If he would be for the majority of the Danes, someone they wouldn´t take seriously, the future will show...

Personally I am actually also not convinced, that he is shy, but has...like some other Bernadotte descendents...problems of expressing himself and isn´t "in tune" with his role. Personally I am also not thinking, that his current way of answering questions in interviews already is the result of hard coaching and training. I am sure, if he would want, he could improve...

@Empress
Maybe you should really buy the book...as much as you are investing energy into the defence of sources, which might be mentioned in the book or not
You could re-sell or burn it afterwards

That the DRF isn´t commenting much on it and doesn´t take legal actions, IMO does neither speak for the creditability of the book, nor against it.
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  #494  
Old 08-16-2008, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
And how about the fact that NONE of the information has been rebutted! I have not been asked to correct a single word in that book - not by the palace nor by anyone else!
Well, I don't know how the palace press office works in Denmark, but some of the worst tabloid nonsense in England (and please don't take that as saying that I think your book is equivalent to the worst tabloid nonsense, because I'm not) is met with silence from Buckingham Palace and usually, unless it's legally actionable, from Clarence House. Lack of demand for retractions isn't necessarily an indication that everybody thinks the information is sound.
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  #495  
Old 08-17-2008, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
And how about the fact that NONE of the information has been rebutted! I have not been asked to correct a single word in that book - not by the palace nor by anyone else!

I would say because they dont want to bring any attention to the book. If they start asking for rebuttals or corrections, then it means the palace is taking the book seriously.
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  #496  
Old 08-17-2008, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Well, I don't know how the palace press office works in Denmark, but some of the worst tabloid nonsense in England (and please don't take that as saying that I think your book is equivalent to the worst tabloid nonsense, because I'm not) is met with silence from Buckingham Palace and usually, unless it's legally actionable, from Clarence House. Lack of demand for retractions isn't necessarily an indication that everybody thinks the information is sound.
So true.

Silence commands conviction. And in the best possible way...
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  #497  
Old 08-17-2008, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
Actually, CP Frederik, IMO, is not shy. He is the most charming, outgoing chap you can imagine, when you have him one-on-one and even in a small, private crowd. His problems start, when he has to perform. When he has to be a royal, cut the ribbon, make the speech, answer the questions etc. etc.
So you would rather have him pretend to be something he is not, when 'performing'? That would be a most unfortunate quality for a future head of state to possess.

His in a position where 'performing' requires a certain reserve. His a Crown Prince, and will, I'd certainly assume, be King. He isn't a celebrity and it seems as though you're trying to present him as one, on occasion. Sure his the tabloid "jackpot" in any many ways, as his entire family, but they aren't celebrities. Never have been, never will be.

And from what I've seen, he cuts ribbons just fine...
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  #498  
Old 08-17-2008, 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Empress View Post
Well, if CP Mary commented on bookstores not carrying your book, and that she appreciated it, then it's a clear indication to ME that she does not think much of your book, and therefore will not waste much time rebutting what she apparently considers nothing more than nonsense and personal opinions.

One person does not an editorial board make. And the publication that you reported for do not have the same standing in my eyes as the NY Times or Washington Post, or IHT. Not that I am saying that you are a tabloid journalist, but even they can say that they have years of reporting behind them. That certainly does not make them credible in my eyes. Especially when they are incapable of maintaining objectivity. That is the key to good journalism to me.
opinions vary, you see in my opinion Mary's statement showed that she was terribly upset about the book, and her facial expressions during her Pre Christmas photo shoot showed the same! imho she would have sued if she could have, it is VERY VERY important to her to keep up apearances. Don't be mistaken, I admire her and the change she has gone through, but I am entitled t my opinion. Empress, your atitude to Trinnie is on the personal level, beleive me the book isn't personally malicious, but the tone of your comments are!
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  #499  
Old 08-17-2008, 03:55 AM
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Let me identify myself.
I am Trine Villemann’s husband, Malcolm Brabant, and I am writing to stand up for my wife in the face of the unjustified vitriol being directed towards her.
I am also the editor of the English edition of 1015 Copenhagen K, and I adapted Trine’s translation from the original Danish.
I have been a journalist for more than 30 years.
And for the past 20 years I have been a foreign correspondent for the BBC.
I have been on assignment in more than 70 countries.
During that time I have won a couple of major reporting awards.
The reason I am telling you this is to vouch for and underline Trine’s journalistic credentials, not to brag about my own achievements.
Trine has been impeccable in sourcing the material for 1015 Copenhagen K.
I know the identity of her sources and, like her, I will take their names to the grave in order to protect them.
What I will say is that I was astonished at how close Trine got to the Danish Royal Family and at the scores of different sources she had.
Her sources are as good, if not better, than Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein’s anonymous “Deep Throat” from the Watergate scandal.
They certainly would pass the scrutiny of the editorial boards of the New York Times and the Washington Post.
I stand whole-heartedly and proudly beside my wife in this endeavour.
She is a fantastic, scrupulous, courageous journalist.
But that is not what you want to hear, and no doubt, I will be prevented from posting again.
The tenor of this forum is clearly from George Bush’s Texas.
It is - “You are either with us, or you are against us.”
No sane person needs to be reminded of the result of such attitudes.
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  #500  
Old 08-17-2008, 04:08 AM
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Nice to meet you Brabant, but the problem i have with the book is that we do not know who these sources are. We, as intelligent human beings will simply not just believe without credible sources. A simple, "a friend said" or "sources close to the prince" cannot suffice. We can also not just accept that it is credible sources just because her husband says so. Are we meant to just take you and your wife's word for it?


Also, anyone who writes a book such as this should expect to be questioned etc, it shouldnt have come as a surprise that your wife is being questioned.
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