The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Royal Highlights > Royal Library

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #361  
Old 08-14-2008, 11:38 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Francisco, United States
Posts: 2,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress View Post
Sorry, but generally the things that are changeable by another person is only habits. Like plesase pick up your clothes from the bedroom floor. Not, I think that you need more confidence. That sort of change needs to come from within yourself.

I fail to understand why you are putting all of the onus on Mary to change Frederik and little on Frederik himself. Again, he is an adult and it's his job, so therefore he should prepare himself for it, and if as you suggest, he is too immature or not confident enough, or whatever the case may be, it is again his problem to change, with Mary's support of course, but it's not her job to change him.
Mary married into a critical role in the institution of the Danish royal house - and is getting all the perks from it. It is part of her job to make sure the crownprincely "department" of this institution is ready when the time comes. If you marry an immature partner then you have the responsibility to make up for that immaturity. Ultimately you as a married couple must as a unit be mature and take care of your responsibilities. If you marry an immature crownprince you just got yourself a big job to do. The success of the team is both of their responsibilities - just as the rewards are both theirs to enjoy. Mary did not marry the guy next door - she married the next regent of Denmark.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #362  
Old 08-14-2008, 11:42 AM
Jo of Palatine's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 3,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
If Frederik carries on the was he has for the past 10 years, I seriously fear for the Danish monarchy. He is popular now, but will it last? Will the respect for him and the royal house last?
Obviously the people love him now, maybe because of his flaws? Why are you not able to be content with a perfectly nice human being but long for superman? At least that's the impression you give here, IMHO. It's not as if he is waiting for the job to save the world from aliens.... He is waiting for the job to be the first representative of his country and, as the other Danes are only human as well, he will be perfectly able to represent them. It's not as if he was an uneducated binge drinker with a heavy smoking habit whose idea of entertainment is to beat up his wife....
__________________

__________________
'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
Reply With Quote
  #363  
Old 08-14-2008, 12:00 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Obviously the people love him now, maybe because of his flaws? Why are you not able to be content with a perfectly nice human being but long for superman? At least that's the impression you give here, IMHO. It's not as if he is waiting for the job to save the world from aliens.... He is waiting for the job to be the first representative of his country and, as the other Danes are only human as well, he will be perfectly able to represent them. It's not as if he was an uneducated binge drinker with a heavy smoking habit whose idea of entertainment is to beat up his wife....
In MY opinion Frederik wil loose the respect of his people unless he or his wife manages to turn him around. I don't expect Superman, but what's wront with a 37 hour work week like the rest of the "human" Danes have? What's wrong with leading by showing a good example? Frederik is seen by many Danes of his own generation as a jet-set prince who likes his freebies and his fun. They don't have time for him anymore - and that is bad news for the monarchy. He is not the looser, you are describing, but he is still a looser and his wife - and all the helpers she can gather - need to work on him - to save him and the royal house.
__________________
My book on the Danish Royal Family
www.1015copenhagenk.com
Reply With Quote
  #364  
Old 08-14-2008, 12:04 PM
Empress's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 3,123
No, turning one's husband into a king is not the job description of a Crown Princess in my opinion. It is her job to support him and be there for him and to help him. Not to mould him. That should have been done long ago.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #365  
Old 08-14-2008, 12:09 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ***, United States
Posts: 16,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
I think she can! In MY opinion CP Mary has that potential - whether she dares to use it is another matter! She is his nearest and dearest - she is the perfect person to try to reform her spouse.
You sound like a terminal optimist! Look what happened when Diana tried to reform hers. And she also came in for a fair bit of ridicule with the "Charles should go off to Italy with his lady and leave me to groom William to be King" because people were wondering why she would know better what it takes to be a monarch than Charles or Queen Elizabeth II.

I think efforts at reforming other people are doomed to failure, to be honest. The best Mary can do is to be supportive and caring, and in that way give him more confidence to face the future. Once a spouse takes on the task of remaking his or her partner, it usually ends in tears.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #366  
Old 08-14-2008, 12:16 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
You sound like a terminal optimist! Look what happened when Diana tried to reform hers.

I think efforts at reforming other people are doomed to failure, to be honest. The best Mary can do is to be supportive and caring, and in that way give him more confidence to face the future. Once a spouse takes on the task of remaking his or her partner, it usually ends in tears.
She does support him and she is caring, but somehow a component is still missing. She can't remake him, I agree, but perhaps just fix those few loose connections, that will make him more confident with his position and make his put more effort into his work.
__________________
My book on the Danish Royal Family
www.1015copenhagenk.com
Reply With Quote
  #367  
Old 08-14-2008, 12:18 PM
Empress's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 3,123
Whatever you may think, she can only do so much in any case. He has to want to change. And you can't know if she is trying and not succeeding because he has no desire to change.

In the end, it's still up to him.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #368  
Old 08-14-2008, 12:31 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne & Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
I think efforts at reforming other people are doomed to failure, to be honest. The best Mary can do is to be supportive and caring, and in that way give him more confidence to face the future.
Truer words...

I completely agree!
__________________

"Dressing is a way of life" - Monsieur Saint Laurent
Reply With Quote
  #369  
Old 08-14-2008, 01:05 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress View Post
Whatever you may think, she can only do so much in any case. He has to want to change. And you can't know if she is trying and not succeeding because he has no desire to change.

In the end, it's still up to him.
In the end it is up to the Danish people, if they want to have a workshy, insecure Crown Prince as their future king. And it is up to Mary as his wife and as CP of Denmark to try to fix that problem. Based on the information I have, she is not trying to work on those issues and CP Frederik has no desire to change, because he thinks he is doing a brillant job!
__________________
My book on the Danish Royal Family
www.1015copenhagenk.com
Reply With Quote
  #370  
Old 08-14-2008, 01:10 PM
Al_bina's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: City, Kazakhstan
Posts: 5,881
With all due respect, but what exactly should Crown Prince Frederik do to please Danes? Find alternative energy sources, sign a good contract of oil shipments, resolve some crisis ... what? The same accusations are levelled at Crown Prince Phillipe of Belgium, who also does not do enough. It is not possible for Princes to please each and everyone. It does not matter what they do, there will be people disapproving of them.
__________________
"I never did mind about the little things"
Amanda, "Point of No Return"
Reply With Quote
  #371  
Old 08-14-2008, 01:15 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress View Post
No, turning one's husband into a king is not the job description of a Crown Princess in my opinion. It is her job to support him and be there for him and to help him. Not to mould him. That should have been done long ago.
Apart from producing heirs, I would say that turning your husband into a king is the primary function for any Crown Princess. Usually these crown princes become much more secure and grounded once they have a wife and a family - look at Norway's Haakon! - but in Frederik's case this has not happened. Royal history has many examples of strong wifes, who have moulded their husbands into good kings. At this very moment, I can only think of the late Queen Ingrid, whom I studied a lot for 1015. The more I got to know her, the more I understood why she is called "The creator of the modern Danish monarchy." She was unique, not always pleasant, but she saw the problems and she dealt with them. She was not afraid to take control, when it was needed and she - I would say almost singlehandedly, but not quite - brought about the change in the succession that led to Margrethe being Queen of Denmark today. Had old Frederik IX just been allowed to potter around, I doubt very much that Denmark would have had a royal family today. I don't envy CP Mary, but this is the kind of work she needs to do with her Frederik. Take control, mould him, steer him, whatever- because if CP Frederik is left to his own devices,IMO, Christian will never be king.
__________________
My book on the Danish Royal Family
www.1015copenhagenk.com
Reply With Quote
  #372  
Old 08-14-2008, 01:19 PM
Empress's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 3,123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
In the end it is up to the Danish people, if they want to have a workshy, insecure Crown Prince as their future king. And it is up to Mary as his wife and as CP of Denmark to try to fix that problem. Based on the information I have, she is not trying to work on those issues and CP Frederik has no desire to change, because he thinks he is doing a brillant job!

No, it is up to Frederik to change if he wants to! You all can howl at the moon for him to change, if you are in fact in the majority of Danes, but until he WANTS to change, if in fact he needs to, which is your opinion, he can not/ will not change. The Danish people, just like Mary, can not force someone to change if they do not wish to. It's as simple as that.

It's not Mary's job to fix a problem that may or may not exist. It's Mary's job to be a supportive and caring spouse and mother. And loving someone for who they are is part of being a supportive person.

So, what exactly do you think Frederik needs to change or do to get your approval? Because like it or not, even as a journalist/author, you only count as one person, and your views, as evidenced on this board, are not the only views on whether or not he is doing a good job or needs to change. You are but one person out of an entire population, and you CAN NOT speak for the entirety of the Danish population, as much as you would like to.

And again, it is only your opinoin that turning one's husband into a king is part and parcel of the job. I for one don't think that it is. Again, a person can only change if they want to, and change comes from within, not from without.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #373  
Old 08-14-2008, 01:26 PM
Jo of Palatine's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 3,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
With all due respect, but what exactly should Crown Prince Frederik do to please Danes? Find alternative energy sources, sign a good contract of oil shipments, resolve some crisis ... what? The same accusations are levelled at Crown Prince Phillipe of Belgium, who also does not do enough. It is not possible for Princes to please each and everyone. It does not matter what they do, there will be people disapproving of them.
I never thought I would agree with you one day: but there we are!
IMHO he works at least 37 hours a week, especially as he has virtually no time off once he is out somewhere beyond the palace walls. IMHO the prince has shown in his life that he is not uneager to accept challenges, he is academically successful as well as a soldier, so where does the interpretation of him being "unwilling" come from when in fact he might only be diplomatic and living within the rules and boundaries set for him by others?
__________________
'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
Reply With Quote
  #374  
Old 08-14-2008, 01:30 PM
Jo of Palatine's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 3,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
At this very moment, I can only think of the late Queen Ingrid, whom I studied a lot for 1015. The more I got to know her, the more I understood why she is called "The creator of the modern Danish monarchy." She was unique, not always pleasant, but she saw the problems and she dealt with them. She was not afraid to take control, when it was needed and she - I would say almost singlehandedly, but not quite - brought about the change in the succession that led to Margrethe being Queen of Denmark today.
Yes, but she was "queen" Ingrid back then, not crown princess and her husband was "king" not crown prince, which makes for quite a difference when it comes to day-to-day life. I for one are pretty glad that the Danish RF seems to live a rather peaceful life together and are not trying to establish rival courts of their own. because somehow I think the Danes have much more understanding for Frederick as he is at the moment instead of him and Mary fighting against their beloved queen.
__________________
'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
Reply With Quote
  #375  
Old 08-14-2008, 01:33 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress View Post
No, it is up to Frederik to change if he wants to! You all can howl at the moon for him to change, if you are in fact in the majority of Danes, but until he WANTS to change, if in fact he needs to, which is your opinion, he can not/ will not change. The Danish people, just like Mary, can not force someone to change if they do not wish to. It's as simple as that.

It's not Mary's job to fix a problem that may or may not exist. It's Mary's job to be a supportive and caring spouse and mother. And loving someone for who they are is part of being a supportive person.

So, what exactly do you think Frederik needs to change or do to get your approval? Because like it or not, even as a journalist/author, you only count as one person, and your views, as evidenced on this board, are not the only views on whether or not he is doing a good job or needs to change. You are but one person out of an entire population, and you CAN NOT speak for the entirety of the Danish population, as much as you would like to.

And again, it is only your opinoin that turning one's husband into a king is part and parcel of the job. I for one don't think that it is. Again, a person can only change if they want to, and change comes from within, not from without.
He does not want to change. Thats part of the problem. Who can persuade him better than anyone, that change is necessary for him and the monarchy? His wife, IMO. I am not saying it is going to be easy,but if CP Mary can't , then no one can. What does he need to change? The list is endless. A few major areas: Put more effort into his work. Have a work week that resembles that of any other Dane - 37 hours a week. Lead by showing a good example instead of freebeing his way around Denmark. Drop thew IOC-candidacy and focus on developing some exercise activities that involve ordinary Danes and not just the few. Not to get my approval, but to give the Danes the monarchy, we deserve. A monarchy with a meaning. Something we can all look up to and cherish. I have never claimed to speak for the entire population, but since we are discussing my book on this thread, I am expressing my views. Am I speaking for the majority? Not yet, but IMO one day I will, unless CP Mary makes a king out of her husband!
__________________
My book on the Danish Royal Family
www.1015copenhagenk.com
Reply With Quote
  #376  
Old 08-14-2008, 01:39 PM
kimebear's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Albany, United States
Posts: 1,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
He does not want to change. Thats part of the problem. Who can persuade him better than anyone, that change is necessary for him and the monarchy? His wife, IMO. I am not saying it is going to be easy,but if CP Mary can't , then no one can. What does he need to change? The list is endless. A few major areas: Put more effort into his work. Have a work week that resembles that of any other Dane - 37 hours a week. Lead by showing a good example instead of freebeing his way around Denmark. Drop thew IOC-candidacy and focus on developing some exercise activities that involve ordinary Danes and not just the few. Not to get my approval, but to give the Danes the monarchy, we deserve. A monarchy with a meaning. Something we can all look up to and cherish. I have never claimed to speak for the entire population, but since we are discussing my book on this thread, I am expressing my views. Am I speaking for the majority? Not yet, but IMO one day I will, unless CP Mary makes a king out of her husband!
I would imagine that Frederick would be very resentful of bringing a commoner into his household only to be repeatedly told by her that he is not "kingly" enough and to change his ways. She is the newcomer, after all. Also, are you saying that Margarethe II does not give you the monarchy you deserve or one that has meaning currently? She is the monarch right now after all. Hopefully this responsibility will not fall onto Frederick's shoulders for many years to come.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #377  
Old 08-14-2008, 01:44 PM
Empress's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 3,123
Again, it is your opinion that he does not want to change, and that he needs to change. Do you know the intimate day to day details of his work day? I am sure that you have an understanding through your research, but I doubt seriously that the palace gave you carte blanche to all of the inner workings.

What's wrong with IOC candidacy/membership? It promotes Denmark to the world. A great many of the royals are or were members of the IOC, inluding currently: Princess Nora of Liechtenstein, Prince Albert of Monaco, Princess Anne of Great Britian, Sheikh Ahmad Al-Fahad of Kuwait, The Grand Duke of Luxembourg, Prince Willem Alexander of The Netherlands, Raja Randir of India, Prince Nawaf Faisal of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad of Qatar, Prince Tunkuy of Malaysia, Princess Haya of the UAE, to name a few, and I would consider these his compatriots.

You can't have it both ways, either you can have a monarchy with all of the trappings of tradition, or no monarchy at all. A monarchy is by it's very definition different from the majority of the population of a country. They are there to represent the country on an international stage, and to do so with as much grace and dignity as the position entails. So you can't therefore compare them to the majority of the population. Would the majority of thepopulation have the journalists and papparazzi following them constantly? Have every move and every word dissected? Have every single moment of your life made public? No. Nor would the majority of them choose to live such a life. Unfortunately or fortunately, Frederik had no say so in who he was born or what he is destined to have to do. He couldn't have just said, well, I don't want to be king, I'm going to be a soldier, banker, candlestick maker. We all have that choice. He does not.

You can't know for a fact what the job entails as you are no royal, just like I can't know what it entails. However, I am more than willing to give them more credit becuase I can't imagine the pressures that come with such a position. I honestly think that they do more than you give them credit for.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #378  
Old 08-14-2008, 01:58 PM
Jo of Palatine's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 3,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
He does not want to change. Thats part of the problem. Who can persuade him better than anyone, that change is necessary for him and the monarchy? His wife, IMO. I am not saying it is going to be easy,but if CP Mary can't , then no one can. What does he need to change? The list is endless. A few major areas: Put more effort into his work. Have a work week that resembles that of any other Dane - 37 hours a week. Lead by showing a good example instead of freebeing his way around Denmark. Drop thew IOC-candidacy and focus on developing some exercise activities that involve ordinary Danes and not just the few. Not to get my approval, but to give the Danes the monarchy, we deserve. A monarchy with a meaning. Something we can all look up to and cherish. I have never claimed to speak for the entire population, but since we are discussing my book on this thread, I am expressing my views. Am I speaking for the majority? Not yet, but IMO one day I will, unless CP Mary makes a king out of her husband!
Villemann, I had thought that you're a journalist who wrote a book about the Danish RF. But following your postings here I more and more get the feeling that you're not a journalist/reporter in the sense of recording things as they are but that you're a lobbyist using the public to transport your own ideas. Shouldn't you openly say so?

Because people who buy your books probably think you're reporting facts as purely as possible and give them a chance to find their own judgment while all the while you seem to present the facts as they fit in with your own opinions. At least that's how I read your postings here: you follow your own agenda, no matter what Frederick and Mary do and you're not speaking for the majority yet, but you hope that one day they will see how flawed Frederick is and push him off the throne?
__________________
'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
Reply With Quote
  #379  
Old 08-14-2008, 03:47 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Villemann, I had thought that you're a journalist who wrote a book about the Danish RF. But following your postings here I more and more get the feeling that you're not a journalist/reporter in the sense of recording things as they are but that you're a lobbyist using the public to transport your own ideas. Shouldn't you openly say so?

Because people who buy your books probably think you're reporting facts as purely as possible and give them a chance to find their own judgment while all the while you seem to present the facts as they fit in with your own opinions. At least that's how I read your postings here: you follow your own agenda, no matter what Frederick and Mary do and you're not speaking for the majority yet, but you hope that one day they will see how flawed Frederick is and push him off the throne?
I don't want anyone pushed off their thrones. I am a royalist. I believe in having a monarchy. My agenda is merely to have a better monarchy. The Danes deserve that! I have written a book about the royal family and due to the observations, I have made over the years as a royal reporter and in researching my book, I have formed my views.
__________________
My book on the Danish Royal Family
www.1015copenhagenk.com
Reply With Quote
  #380  
Old 08-14-2008, 03:49 PM
Princess Eudoxia's Avatar
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Oz, United States
Posts: 7
I was wondering how Trine responds to critics like this who call her book crap.

Danish Royal Watchers: Trine Villemann's book worst of 2007 - book review
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
belgium brussels carl philip charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events engagement fashion genealogy germany grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta sofia jordan king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander letizia luxembourg nobility official visit olympics ottoman pieter van vollenhoven poland president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince daniel prince floris prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess beatrix princess charlene princess laurentien princess madeleine princess margriet princess marilene princess mary princess mary fashion queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:21 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]