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  #341  
Old 08-13-2008, 03:15 PM
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I have to agree. The only person who can decide if he is truly ready to take on this responsibility is Fredrick himself. His wife cannot "make" him do this or "reform" him.
I think she can! In MY opinion CP Mary has that potential - whether she dares to use it is another matter! She is his nearest and dearest - she is the perfect person to try to reform her spouse.
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  #342  
Old 08-13-2008, 03:25 PM
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We're reopening the thread now the book has been out for a couple of weeks.

Note of caution: we're not interested in posts along the lines of "I haven't read it, I'm not going to read it, but it's rubbish and the author is a bad person." This forum is meant for reviews by people who have read the books they're talking about and for people who haven't read them to ask about them. It isn't for general-purpose trashing of books and authors on the basis of second- or third-hand information. Especially not in this case when we have a controversial book whose author is a member of the forum.

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Oh, I agree Elspeth!
And, I am thrilled that Trine Villeman is here to chat with everyone about her book, too.
I am looking forward to reading it. First, I have to save up money to order it.

-- Abbie
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  #343  
Old 08-13-2008, 03:51 PM
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Oh, I agree Elspeth!
And, I am thrilled that Trine Villeman is here to chat with everyone about her book, too.
I am looking forward to reading it. First, I have to save up money to order it.

-- Abbie
Thanks Abbie! I am here, ready to debate and discuss MY monarchy and all of our monarchies!
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  #344  
Old 08-13-2008, 05:19 PM
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I have to agree. The only person who can decide if he is truly ready to take on this responsibility is Fredrick himself. His wife cannot "make" him do this or "reform" him.
Mary is part of the team. She does not have the luxury of choosing if she wants to or not. Some marriages carries with it inherent responsibilites. Marrying a Crown Prince is definitively one of those marriages. The team of Mary and Frederik will make it or not and the responsibility is theirs to share. The perks of being a crown princess can sometimes come at a very high price. Mary has her work cut out for her.
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  #345  
Old 08-13-2008, 08:32 PM
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Mary is part of the team. She does not have the luxury of choosing if she wants to or not. Some marriages carries with it inherent responsibilites. Marrying a Crown Prince is definitively one of those marriages. The team of Mary and Frederik will make it or not and the responsibility is theirs to share. The perks of being a crown princess can sometimes come at a very high price. Mary has her work cut out for her.

Yes, I agree that CP Mary is part of the "team." IMO, the only person who how much effort and enthusiasm is put into his tasks, duties, and appearances is CP Fredrick himself.
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  #346  
Old 08-13-2008, 11:53 PM
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Thanks Abbie! I am here, ready to debate and discuss MY monarchy and all of our monarchies!
Nice to see you here, Trine.

I am getting ready to order your book.

Your husband has been most prompt and kindly corresponding to my many questions about postage, packing, and the details of paying for the item.

I would like to add that I have enjoyed seeing you interviewed online, too, about your book. Your poise, in fielding all the criticism leveled at you, has been admirable, I must say.

-- Abbie
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  #347  
Old 08-14-2008, 03:38 AM
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Yes, I agree that CP Mary is part of the "team." IMO, the only person who how much effort and enthusiasm is put into his tasks, duties, and appearances is CP Fredrick himself.
Frederik's grandma, the late Queen Ingrid, managed to turn her wayward husband around. Old King Frederik IX was a thirsty fella, who liked a good party, but Ingrid very wisely ruled him with an ironfist in a velvet glove.Ingrid, of course, was a born and bred princess. Mary is not and maybe that is part of the problem! In my book I describe just how robust Ingrid was in her dealings with her husband, but perhaps that strenght came from being a royal herself. I do not envy CP Mary, but she wanted her prince and now it is time to make a king ourt of him!
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  #348  
Old 08-14-2008, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by HRH Abigail View Post
Nice to see you here, Trine.

I am getting ready to order your book.

Your husband has been most prompt and kindly corresponding to my many questions about postage, packing, and the details of paying for the item.

I would like to add that I have enjoyed seeing you interviewed online, too, about your book. Your poise, in fielding all the criticism leveled at you, has been admirable, I must say.

-- Abbie
Yes, my husband, who is dealing with the sales of 1015, has recently gained a lot of friends all over the world! Being British, he never understood the inner workings of the Danish monasrchy. He does now!
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  #349  
Old 08-14-2008, 04:32 AM
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but she wanted her prince and now it is time to make a king ourt of him!
You have a reigning Queen, let us not forget. Lets not get ahead of 'ourselves' as seems to be the general ambition of some.

Now it is time to support her husband as Crown Prince, as would be the right and logical thing to do.
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  #350  
Old 08-14-2008, 04:35 AM
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Ingrid, of course, was a born and bred princess. Mary is not and maybe that is part of the problem! In my book I describe just how robust Ingrid was in her dealings with her husband, but perhaps that strenght came from being a royal herself.
That is a form of racism, IMHO, blaming "problems" Mary obviously hasn't when the majority of people in Denmark are concerned, on her not being born a Royal. it's an old mobbing method to blame people for things they cannot change. Mary is not a "princess born and bred" and will never be able to change that. Very telling.

As for her not pushing frederick enough: maybe she at least knows her place as consort of the heir. I bet you'd prefer to have a new Diana in Denmark, one who likes to upstage her more senior Royal relatives/collegues, but so far IMHo Mary behaves with exactly the right kind of respect for the fact that her mother-in-law still is the queen.
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  #351  
Old 08-14-2008, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
You have a reigning Queen, let us not forget. Lets not get ahead of 'ourselves' as seems to be the general ambition of some.

Now it is time to support her husband as Crown Prince, as would be the right and logical thing to do.
Now is the time for CP Mary to lay the foundation in order for CP Frederik to become a good king! if I got a bit ahead of myself there, I apologize!
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  #352  
Old 08-14-2008, 05:33 AM
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That is a form of racism, IMHO, blaming "problems" Mary obviously hasn't when the majority of people in Denmark are concerned, on her not being born a Royal. it's an old mobbing method to blame people for things they cannot change. Mary is not a "princess born and bred" and will never be able to change that. Very telling.

As for her not pushing frederick enough: maybe she at least knows her place as consort of the heir. I bet you'd prefer to have a new Diana in Denmark, one who likes to upstage her more senior Royal relatives/collegues, but so far IMHo Mary behaves with exactly the right kind of respect for the fact that her mother-in-law still is the queen.
Racism?Mobbing? I am looking at history and seeing a princess, who managed to do what Mary also - in MY opinion - needs to do. I am not blaming CP Mary for anything. I am merely saying she needs to make a king - start the work now, he is 40 years old - out of her husband. As for Diana, I think she used and abused her obvious skills as a modern princess, but I believe she followed her instincts. Maybe CP Mary should try the same?
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  #353  
Old 08-14-2008, 06:48 AM
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One thing I will say for Mary is that perhaps she wasn´t born a princess but she certainly looks like one.
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  #354  
Old 08-14-2008, 08:30 AM
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One thing I will say for Mary is that perhaps she wasn´t born a princess but she certainly looks like one.
I agree. She look like a princess. Now it is time for her to put some substance into the work, she is doing. I know it is difficult, but if she trusts herself, I am convinced she can help the Danish monarchy on it's way to reform.
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  #355  
Old 08-14-2008, 09:56 AM
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Racism?Mobbing? I am looking at history and seeing a princess, who managed to do what Mary also - in MY opinion - needs to do. I am not blaming CP Mary for anything. I am merely saying she needs to make a king - start the work now, he is 40 years old - out of her husband. As for Diana, I think she used and abused her obvious skills as a modern princess, but I believe she followed her instincts. Maybe CP Mary should try the same?
Why should Mary be responsible for making her husband anything? He is an adult isn't he? He is therefore responsible for his own actions. It's not Marys job to make him anything, it's his job. Her job is to support him.

Furthermore, when most of us marry, it's not in order to change the person. We marry them for who they are at the time, and who they will be, of their own accord, in the future. If you marry someone with the intent to change them, you clearly do not love the person that they are when you marry them, and you might as well not get married at all.

On another note, I think that Mary is doing a fine job, as the majority of Danes seem to think. She doesn't overstep her bounds, she stays in the background sometimes, and sometimes she comes to the foreground. It's a modern relationship with the constraints of tradition, and I don't think anyone could or should ask more of her at this time.
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  #356  
Old 08-14-2008, 10:32 AM
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Why should Mary be responsible for making her husband anything? He is an adult isn't he? He is therefore responsible for his own actions. It's not Marys job to make him anything, it's his job. Her job is to support him.

Furthermore, when most of us marry, it's not in order to change the person. We marry them for who they are at the time, and who they will be, of their own accord, in the future. If you marry someone with the intent to change them, you clearly do not love the person that they are when you marry them, and you might as well not get married at all.

On another note, I think that Mary is doing a fine job, as the majority of Danes seem to think. She doesn't overstep her bounds, she stays in the background sometimes, and sometimes she comes to the foreground. It's a modern relationship with the constraints of tradition, and I don't think anyone could or should ask more of her at this time.
I think it is fair and square to ask more of your royals, like I am asking of CP Mary, because in the end the monarchy belongs to all of us. Mary and her in-laws inhabit the institution, but financially and emotionally we are all co-owners. Of course she didn't marry CP Frederik to change him, but to support him in his future role. Show me a spouse who wouldn't pick up on his or her partners flaws and try to fix them? Naturally Mary can not give her husband a full make over. He is who he is, but surely she can help him become more confident and comfortable with his position. I don't understand why that is such a sore issue with some people. Where is the harm in suggesting that Mary has to make a king out of her husband? She is the obvious choice for that.
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  #357  
Old 08-14-2008, 10:52 AM
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Where is the harm in suggesting that Mary has to make a king out of her husband? She is the obvious choice for that.
There is no ham at all, but I'm just not sure what you are suggesting is a realistic expectation. I don't how Mary is to change her husband into a king when she's only became a royal a few years ago. The task of transforming Frederik (if there is even a need) should come from his mother and the advisors at the palace, non?
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  #358  
Old 08-14-2008, 11:05 AM
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There is no ham at all, but I'm just not sure what you are suggesting is a realistic expectation. I don't how Mary is to change her husband into a king when she's only became a royal a few years ago. The task of transforming Frederik (if there is even a need) should come from his mother and the advisors at the palace, non?
Well, forget about the Queen. She has been such an absent parent - as described in my book - that she does not have that kind of influence over her son. Advisors? Yep, and things are looking up here, but I would still say that Mary is his nearest and dearest and therefor the one, who can install confidence in him - or perhaps just make sure he gets all the professional help he needs? As any wife would do for her husband. Isn't that what marriage is all about? Helping each other?
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  #359  
Old 08-14-2008, 11:09 AM
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Sorry, but generally the things that are changeable by another person is only habits. Like plesase pick up your clothes from the bedroom floor. Not, I think that you need more confidence. That sort of change needs to come from within yourself.

I fail to understand why you are putting all of the onus on Mary to change Frederik and little on Frederik himself. Again, he is an adult and it's his job, so therefore he should prepare himself for it, and if as you suggest, he is too immature or not confident enough, or whatever the case may be, it is again his problem to change, with Mary's support of course, but it's not her job to change him.
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  #360  
Old 08-14-2008, 11:33 AM
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Sorry, but generally the things that are changeable by another person is only habits. Like plesase pick up your clothes from the bedroom floor. Not, I think that you need more confidence. That sort of change needs to come from within yourself.

I fail to understand why you are putting all of the onus on Mary to change Frederik and little on Frederik himself. Again, he is an adult and it's his job, so therefore he should prepare himself for it, and if as you suggest, he is too immature or not confident enough, or whatever the case may be, it is again his problem to change, with Mary's support of course, but it's not her job to change him.
It is part of any Crown Princesses jobdescription to make a good king out of her husband. A Crown Princess is a corporate wife. CP Mary happens to be married to a prince, who can not change himself. He does not have that kind of insight to be able to do so in MY opinion. The burden falls to his wife, tough, and I don't envy CP Mary, but if she can't install discipline, confidence, selfesteem whatever - then ,who can? It is not only Frederik's problem that he can't turn himself around and do his job properly - it's everybody's problem. If Frederik carries on the was he has for the past 10 years, I seriously fear for the Danish monarchy. He is popular now, but will it last? Will the respect for him and the royal house last? I don't think. Someone needs to do something. That someone is Mary. It comes with the territory, when you marry a prince.
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