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  #301  
Old 07-30-2008, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Warren View Post
I understand what you mean now. I guess Mary faces that conflict between maintaining "control" and allowing her natural personality to shine. It's a balancing act, although I would imagine that as she has grown into the position of Crown Princess she has loosened up somewhat. Are you saying that you think she hasn't loosened up enough in public and retains too much reserve?
To me CP Mary looks like a deer caught in the royal headlights! Terrifed and trying to control it, by being controlling - if you know what I mean. I wish someone would advice her to just be herself. She is good enough. We like her. We would just like to get the real Mary back, the one Frederik fell in love with, the one he needs and the one - in MY opinion - the monarchy craves! I am convinced that the real Mary, with her experience, easily can work out that our royal house needs to be in tune with the times and that the way to do that is to work hard with causes that matter to us today and tomorrow!

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Originally Posted by Empress View Post
And do you know for a fact that she does not do anything more than just show up? If as you say it's all about the clothing, and that's the media doing the portraying, how are we to know that she doesn't do anything more? I rather suspect that she does. She certainly did with the Mary Foundation, and the Alana and Madeleine foundation.

What's more, more background effort goes into these events than you might imagine. It takes effort and time to learn about the different problems facing each patronage. It takes time to prepare a speech, and research what needs to be said, and it takes time to interact with the various people and listen to their needs.

So unless you know for a FACT that she does nothing more than just show up, then I think that you are making assumptions that can not be supported by a scratch of the surface.
Do you know for a FACT that she does more than just show up and lookg god?Why is it , that when you ask the palace to provide a real working schedule for CP Frederik and Mary, that they - at least so far - have refused to do it? Because there is not that much to show, perhaps? I am not saying, she is not working - she is certainly working much more than her husband - but on so many occasions Mary's professional skills have failed her or she has refused to employ them. Remember she used to work in PR? She should know how to communicate, but she doesn't.The Mary Foundation is well intended, but again it is words more than action. I am very familiar with CP Mary's work in her foundation as I am researching it for my next book.
We discuss mary's clothing because she gives us nothing else to talk about!

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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
Then by all means, prove that she doesn't.
I can not see content or substance in the work she does. How do I prove it? Wel, how do you prove that there is content in what CP Mary does!

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Originally Posted by Viv View Post
Of course Obama hasn't changed anything! He isn't president of the United States .... yet!

Viv
He has been a senator for four years!
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  #302  
Old 07-30-2008, 01:38 PM
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I am very familiar with CP Mary's work in her foundation as I am researching it for my next book.
Must you?

No no, I'm being cheeky.

Quote:
Why is it , that when you ask the palace to provide a real working schedule for CP Frederik and Mary, that they - at least so far - have refused to do it?
Have you yourself sought such information, or...?
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  #303  
Old 07-30-2008, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress View Post
It takes time to prepare a speech, and research what needs to be said, and it takes time to interact with the various people and listen to their needs.
I like Mary, don't get me wrong, but I highly doubt that she is preparing and researching her own speeches.
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  #304  
Old 07-30-2008, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
Must you?

No no, I'm being cheeky.



Have you yourself sought such information, or...?
Don't worry, after my next book I will give the Danish monarchy a break! yes, I have requested that information myself. So far no success!

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Originally Posted by sunsh1n3 View Post
I like Mary, don't get me wrong, but I highly doubt that she is preparing and researching her own speeches.
Don't be sillyOf course, she doesn't! I know she likes to surf the internet - well, who deosn't? - but she has staff to deal with speeches and research. That is a FACT!
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  #305  
Old 07-30-2008, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
Don't worry, after my next book I will give the Danish monarchy a break! yes, I have requested that information myself. So far no success!
Mitts off the British monarchy while you're at it...
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  #306  
Old 07-30-2008, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
I can not see content or substance in the work she does. How do I prove it? Wel, how do you prove that there is content in what CP Mary does!
It has seemed to me, that your often quick to dismiss answering, and instead, prefer to pose the same question back to those who ask you to provide evidence in support of the statements you make. Generally, that can be considered a sure sign that what you propose to be so, is actually baseless and presents little more than an attempt to highlight an opinion as fact when really, it's anything but.

I asked you, because it reads as though you believe your opinion to be right, and so, it is therefore entirely acceptable to request that you provide evidence in support of your statements...
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  #307  
Old 07-30-2008, 01:54 PM
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Let me ask you all this. When did it become mandatory for Mary to have a "job"?
Since I do not know about it can anyone tell me if the same expectations were in place for CP Margrethe for example? From what I know Royalty used to be a class of individuals who showed up at certain events, kept their mouths shut, the paparazzi used to leave alone, the media was respecting and all the people were looking for was that they'd show up during parades and national disasters.........The rest of the times they'd move from winter palaces to summer palaces and enjoy their special status.
I am not trying to be rude or dismissive of anyone's views, I am just curious to know when did this all change and why?
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  #308  
Old 07-30-2008, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Villemann View Post
Don't worry, after my next book I will give the Danish monarchy a break! yes, I have requested that information myself. So far no success!
It may just be me, but in light of the situation, it's no surprise that the palace would be unwilling to provide you with any real information. I'm not being malicious, just logical...

Good luck with your future endeavours though.
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  #309  
Old 07-30-2008, 01:59 PM
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Hey, my question is as relevant as yours. I can not see why the burden of proof necessarily rests entirely on my shoulders. You show me the content and the substance if you happen to know, where one can find it! I can't see it! anywhere! Of course I believe my opinion to be accurate and correct. Isn't that the whole point of discussing, that you believe you are right or did I miss something here?
We are not writing a science paper. We are debatting whether or not CP Mary is doing her job to the best of her ability. You think, she is. I disagree, but you can't really prove such a subjective thing, can you? It all depends of what kind of lenses you are looking through, doesn't it?
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  #310  
Old 07-30-2008, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
but she has staff to deal with speeches and research. That is a FACT!
Unless you know from seeing her not just take the speeches from someone elses hand, or she's told you herself that she does not research her own speeches, then you can not call it a fact truthfully.

For example, Maxima does have assistants who help her research her speeches, but she often researches and writes them on her own.

Can you provide back up for what you call a fact that she does not write or research her own speeches?
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  #311  
Old 07-30-2008, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odette View Post
Let me ask you all this. When did it become mandatory for Mary to have a "job"?
Since I do not know about it can anyone tell me if the same expectations were in place for CP Margrethe for example? From what I know Royalty used to be a class of individuals who showed up at certain events, kept their mouths shut, the paparazzi used to leave alone, the media was respecting and all the people were looking for was that they'd show up during parades and national disasters.........The rest of the times they'd move from winter palaces to summer palaces and enjoy their special status.
I am not trying to be rude or dismissive of anyone's views, I am just curious to know when did this all change and why?
Because society has changed. 200 years ago it would not have mattered, that CP Frederik can hardly string two words together. Today it matters, because the media is the tool with which the royals communicate with their people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
It may just be me, but in light of the situation, it's no surprise that the palace would be unwilling to provide you with any real information. I'm not being malicious, just logical...

Good luck with your future endeavours though.
Thanks! I hope it is not because I am asking. That it would be a real sign of weakness on their part if they on purpose withheld information from me, that they are prepared to hand out to other media. The palace know I would find out anyway and it would make them look really bad!
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  #312  
Old 07-30-2008, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Mitts off the British monarchy while you're at it...

I would love to! I happen to think, though, that the Brits are doing a far better job than the Danes!
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  #313  
Old 07-30-2008, 02:09 PM
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CP Frederick is a born royal. Why is it up to Mary to make him look good? Whatever happened to the handlers and the courtiers? Mary is still learning "the ropes" herself.
With regard to the speeches and being a tad involved in the past, (not with royalty of course) no one at her level is expected to know so much and write her own speeches. There are advisors who give them the essence of the matter they will discuss or ask questions about, and someone (or more) will draft the speech. Perhaps Mary or Maxima or whoever, like what they read and give the speech intact or perhaps they add or take something out.
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  #314  
Old 07-30-2008, 02:11 PM
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Isn't that the whole point of discussing, that you believe you are right or did I miss something here?
I think clearly you must have. For debating isn't just about steadfast conviction, rather, is about maintaining an open mind to the possibility that you may not be correct. Of course, no one would anticpate you to concede to the possibility you may not be right, afterall, it wouldn't look terribly good for an author to admit perhaps all is not how they thought it to be. Wouldn't do much for book sales now would it...

I'm sure that my opinion is not always accurate, and will gladely admit so if given evidence enough to prove it.

I have read your book (though I did not purchase it) and while I wasn't partciularly taken by it's contents, I can acknowledge that there are those who believe more could be done, and more should be done. I understand this is your opinion and your of course very welcome to share it. It doesn't however, make that opinion accurate because it's been bound and packed on a shelf. Whether or not you (or anyone) wish to accept that is neither here nor there. It's the way it is.
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  #315  
Old 07-30-2008, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Mitts off the British monarchy while you're at it...
Here is something else to research: 2500 GK Den Haag. (the Dutch RF).
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  #316  
Old 07-30-2008, 02:28 PM
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I find I simply don't like people who tell others to do more. It's such a nasty concept, forcing others to defend themselves and especially when the one told to do more is someone who cannot defend herself. Bad style, that, IMHO.
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  #317  
Old 07-30-2008, 02:36 PM
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CP Mary has the body of a Barbie after two pregnancies. That is wonderful, ¡good for her! CP Mary dresses like a princess, otherwise she would be criticized, too, and they would say the Aussie can not learn to dress and behave like a real princess. That is the worst thing about public life, everything will be criticized for different persons with different values. And she has good taste to choose her clothes. This couple is adjusting to the normal changes in a marriage in full limelight. The thing with more substance she needs to do now is to raise her children, so that they become happy and normal people while adjusting they too to limelight. Small children require a lot of real time, not only quality time.

I think Denmark is a constitutional monarchy, with elections and prime ministers, etc., and I have read CP Frederik is very well prepared to be head of state someday. But he is a young man, too, adapting himself to the limitations in a marriage, such a conflicted institution. I like their personalities and I would be very proud of them if I were danish. They are liked all around the world, and because of Mary and the kids, now a symbol of Denmark, too, the country is in many headlines.
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  #318  
Old 07-30-2008, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress View Post
And do you know for a fact that she does not do anything more than just show up? If as you say it's all about the clothing, and that's the media doing the portraying, how are we to know that she doesn't do anything more? I rather suspect that she does. She certainly did with the Mary Foundation, and the Alana and Madeleine foundation.

What's more, more background effort goes into these events than you might imagine. It takes effort and time to learn about the different problems facing each patronage. It takes time to prepare a speech, and research what needs to be said, and it takes time to interact with the various people and listen to their needs.

So unless you know for a FACT that she does nothing more than just show up, then I think that you are making assumptions that can not be supported by a scratch of the surface.
Thank you for writing this. You've hit on what I would say in response to the authors comment.

I'm an American and I have no idea what it is like to have royalty or what they're expected to do or not do. What I've seen from Mary is just a nice, well mannered, and yes well dressed person. She seems genuine about what she is doing and wants to help causes and people in the best possible way. I'm not sure what more is expected of her. Is she supposed to get a PhD. in economics and change her adopted homeland? I'm really confused as to what more she's supposed to be doing.

I'd like to read this book now that it's in English but from what I have read on this thread my impression of it isn't good. No offense.
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  #319  
Old 07-30-2008, 03:01 PM
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I find it a bit odd that the main issue of this thread turned out to be CPss Mary. From the extract/reviews I have read it seems the only critisism the author has on her is that she should loosen up. The opinion about the other royals is much more controversial and serious IMO, but somehow people here only get emotionally attached to this subject due to a minor remark about Mary. Personally I found the way that the late Queen Ingrid was portrayed more surprising (coniving against her brother-in-law in favor of her daughter). But also on Margrethe, Frederik, Henrik, Joachim and Alexandra the book seems much more critical (though very little people here seem to mind that).
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  #320  
Old 07-30-2008, 03:11 PM
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I think the author appearing in Australia has made it about Mary, right?
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