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  #221  
Old 07-05-2008, 04:19 PM
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The book about Crown Princess Mary by Palshøj and Rødder sold about 25,000-30,000 copies, according to the authors when they were interviewed on their recent book on Frederik. I don't know whether to consider that a large amount or not, or how it is compared to other books in the "genre" in Denmark.
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  #222  
Old 07-05-2008, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras View Post
Binz and Viv, I'm intrigued... could you give us your review of the book (hence similar as to what Norwegianne did) besides what the author's motivation may or may not be? Assuming the two of you read it...

Second, what did you think of her analysis of the former Princess Alexandra? Do you believe it was a fair treatment?

Sigh,

no I didn't read it. Though I did read some reviews and not just the somewhat unfair and damning reviews from the danish media. In addition I did read and listen to Villemans interviews and especially they are the reason for my displeasure of Villeman and her book.

I'm sorry, you don't get a review for the book from me, though you get a kind of review of the advertising interviews and promotion regarding the book. I believe book and PR and the author belong together, if the author sents the wrong signals I can't help. I don't read every book that is thrown at me, yes sometimes, not allways, a review or the knowledge who has written the book is enough for me.

The book was announced to show the true personalities of the DRF. I've known all this stories about the DRF allready and believe them till a part. In general it doesn't matter if I believe Villeman has analysed or treated the members of the family in a fair way. One can like or dislike such stories and books. Though my beef with the book and Villeman results in something else.

If one believes in Trines claims she is a royalist and wants a better monarchy, I can only wonder what she thinks she is able to achieve. It's beyond me how her book can add anything to the betterment of the DRF. In addition listening to her interviews, reading her messages I'm wondering if she knows what she wants. Dependent on her audience she offers different opinions. I also fail to understand how she can better the DRF trying to ruin their image.

I'm also astonished how she can claim what everything the DRF has done the last month is due to her book. As a result of Trines own advertising I'm so not impressed and won't waist time or money on the english version of her book. Authors should be able to fullfill the promises they make regarding their books. Trying to sell a book as something that is just not there doesn't convince me.

If a journalist wants to better the DRF using a book, this book has to be a different one, at least in my opinion. Not that I think this is very likely to happen through a book. In my opinion it's useless to bring up the past of the last fifty years. A rather short overview should be enough. Why not concentrate on the now and the future and some realistic, real suggestions. If there should ever be a book worth to be bought and red I just can hope that the author won't ruin my appetite with contradictory and inconsistent interviews and behavoir.

Together with others I would like some critical articles or books. Though Villemans book and Extrabladet articles just doesn't do it for us.

Probably I'm simple fed up having to cope with tabloid journalists at their worst in my home country. So I'm in general fed up that it's necassary to wade through an overkill of either to good or bad reports. The worst are the total made up ones. I'm especially fed up with tabloid journalists with an overblown ego.


Btw. did you ask Villeman if she ever has asked Frederik if he still doesn't want to become King?
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  #223  
Old 07-05-2008, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by norwegianne View Post
The book about Crown Princess Mary by Palshøj and Rødder sold about 25,000-30,000 copies, according to the authors when they were interviewed on their recent book on Frederik. I don't know whether to consider that a large amount or not, or how it is compared to other books in the "genre" in Denmark.
25,000 to 35,000 (roughly) copies sold? That's pretty much considered a flop in the publishing world.


Quote:
Sigh,

no I didn't read it. Though I did read some reviews and not just the somewhat unfair and damning reviews from the danish media. In addition I did read and listen to Villemans interviews and especially they are the reason for my displeasure of Villeman and her book.
Oh, I'm sorry Binz for asking you a simple question specifically whether or not you actually read the book. I completely understand there are some who are extremely irritated that someone would write such a questioning treatise; nonetheless, this is the Royal Library where people recommend, announce new books about to be published, television shows as well as movies, and review their thoughts about a particular book. I, like many other objective members, are interested in those who have read 1015 Kobenhaven K and not have to sort through a myriad of posts where members substitute their lack of knowledge of the book by replacing it with slamming someone's character as well as alleged motives.


Quote:
I'm sorry, you don't get a review for the book from me, though you get a kind of review of the advertising interviews and promotion regarding the book. I believe book and PR and the author belong together, if the author sents the wrong signals I can't help. I don't read every book that is thrown at me, yes sometimes, not allways, a review or the knowledge who has written the book is enough for me.

Don't apologize to me nor to anyone else, Binz. However, thank you for clearing up as well as sharing your lack of objectivity when it comes to a touchy book such as this one by Trine.


Quote:
If one believes in Trines claims she is a royalist and wants a better monarchy, I can only wonder what she thinks she is able to achieve. It's beyond me how her book can add anything to the betterment of the DRF. In addition listening to her interviews, reading her messages I'm wondering if she knows what she wants. Dependent on her audience she offers different opinions. I also fail to understand how she can better the DRF trying to ruin their image. I'm also astonished how she can claim what everything the DRF has done the last month is due to her book. As a result of Trines own advertising I'm so not impressed and won't waist time or money on the english version of her book. Authors should be able to fullfill the promises they make regarding their books. Trying to sell a book as something that is just not there doesn't convince me.


How in the world can you be so critical of an author and a book with which you have never read, Binz? How is that possible? You refuse to read it, yet you are implying that you recieved your information about the book from others (who openly discredit the author and her book and who have also never read it) and follow their perspectives blindly... hearsay is what it is. Why? Why would you do that?


Quote:
If a journalist wants to better the DRF using a book, this book has to be a different one, at least in my opinion. Not that I think this is very likely to happen through a book. In my opinion it's useless to bring up the past of the last fifty years. A rather short overview should be enough. Why not concentrate on the now and the future and some realistic, real suggestions. If there should ever be a book worth to be bought and red I just can hope that the author won't ruin my appetite with contradictory and inconsistent interviews and behavoir.

Is it really? Then perhaps you should discredit more than 89% of history books as well as bios of known peoples and families that have been published since the invention of the printing press. In other words, historians would greatly disagree with you no matter how controversial the subject as well as the author[s] intentions may or may not be.


Quote:
Together with others I would like some critical articles or books. Though Villemans book and Extrabladet articles just doesn't do it for us.


The only people who have voiced their extreme displeasure with this book are those who haven't read the book. Only a small handful within this forum has actually read it, and it is interesting to read their discourse regarding Trine's book. Some hated it, others had no strong opinion one way or the other.

As for critical books, are there any real scholarly treatises when it comes to the Danish Royal Family? Is there? And I'm not talking about some popular history stuff that one can find at Border's, Amazon.com, Barnes and Noble, etc. No, I'm talking about writings that would qualify and is a quality piece of work that would pass at an academic historians convention at Princeton or would be good enough to be published in the American Historical Review and the like. And, no. Jes Dorph, the tv Danish journalist and rabid supporter with his once in a blue moon fluff questioning piece that would meet his yearly quota with his bosses, doesn't qualify either. Why? He's in the same category as Trine except he would never upset nor write anything controversial such as 1015 Kobenhaven K.

Quote:
Probably I'm simple fed up having to cope with tabloid journalists at their worst in my home country. So I'm in general fed up that it's necassary to wade through an overkill of either to good or bad reports. The worst are the total made up ones. I'm especially fed up with tabloid journalists with an overblown ego.

How many journalists do you know that have an "overblown ego"? Or are you assuming things about the author (which is who you are implying with your last quote.) If so, please remeber the TRF rules when it comes to your fellow members. In case you forgot, please review the Rules and FAQ's one more time.


Quote:
Btw. did you ask Villeman if she ever has asked Frederik if he still doesn't want to become King?
Now, why in the world would I do that? It's not something that would ever cross my mind. Why? Because I haven't read the book. Look Binz, if you really want to know: Ask her yourself... don't be shy... just ask.


Getting back on topic:

Many within this thread would like to hear from those who have actually read 1015 København K. Look, I sympathize with those who are upset with this book because it questions the DRF and doesn't put them in the greatest light. However, one would have a better argument for or against this book if they would actually read it first! So please, if your local library has it, check it out and read the darn thing. Then come back and state your honest opinion. That's all... is it really that hard? No. No, it is not.
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  #224  
Old 07-06-2008, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras View Post
25,000 to 35,000 (roughly) copies sold? That's pretty much considered a flop in the publishing world.
It's actually not in Scandinavia.

I've done some checking with comparative measures, and while a CD (different medium, I know) has to sell a million copies in the States to reach platinum, in Denmark selling to platinum means selling 30,000 copies.

A best-selling book from Sweden was quoted in Norway as having sold 40,000 copies. The Norwegian Wikipedia claims that a book is considered a bestseller in Norway when it has sold 5,000 copies. And from what I remember from my book education in Denmark, the numbers aren't all that different here.

To bring it back to the topic of the thread: according to the website for Copenhagen K:
Quote:
Our initial publication will be the English edition of 1015 Copenhagen K, Trine’s first book, which went straight to the top of Denmark’s non-fiction bestseller list when it was published in Danish in October 2007.
(Bolding mine).
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  #225  
Old 07-06-2008, 05:45 AM
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If it is written on the webside of Copenhagen K - that Villemans book went to the top of the best-sellig list in Denmark - I would very much like to know which best-selling list is refered to - as I strongly doubt that claim.

I do also think it is important to remember - that the figur 30.000 mentioned several times on this thread - does not refers to Villemanns book but a completly different book about Princess Mary.
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  #226  
Old 07-06-2008, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Lilla View Post
If it is written on the webside of Copenhagen K - that Villemans book went to the top of the best-sellig list in Denmark - I would very much like to know which best-selling list is refered to - as I strongly doubt that claim.
Lilla! It was on the weekly list published by the booksellers
association (or thereabouts). I saw it in Fyns Stiftstidende and in
one of the nationwide newspapers.
It was not exactly topping the list (of the ten most sold non-fiction
books); it was hovering somewhere in the middle - around the
4th- 6th place, if my memory serves me right! But I won't bet on it!

Also. the first impression of 1015-K was a quick sell-out and a
second impression was made some three-four weeks after the release!

Viv
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  #227  
Old 07-06-2008, 10:17 AM
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Trine and her husband are experienced and professional people. this is so dad that prejudiced royal fans think that royals are the most perfect and beautiful people in the whole world who have not mistakes and problems and their life is milk and honey. Some of them are just willing to believe the positive news and they are sure that each negative news must be lie. In their eyes princes and princesses look like gods and goddesses who are better than the commoners. The royals are people only who have the same problems like any of us. Nobody is perfect. But this is so sad that many people just take great interest in outward appearances, princesses' wardrobes and their fairytake life. They prefer to put their heads in sand so that they must face up to the reality and so that collapse the image of fairytale.
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  #228  
Old 07-06-2008, 10:49 AM
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No one is perfect.

And because a book is written does not make it's contents accurate.

I have read most of the book, which was translated for me by a friend (note: I did not ask for the translation.lol.), and I've found it quite uninspiring though not because I'm ignorant to what is an indavidual perception, it's just not an opinion I think reflects a majority concession.
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  #229  
Old 07-06-2008, 01:18 PM
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It's actually not in Scandinavia.

I've done some checking with comparative measures, and while a CD (different medium, I know) has to sell a million copies in the States to reach platinum, in Denmark selling to platinum means selling 30,000 copies.
Really... huh. I still hold firm to my prior statement: 25,00-35,000 copies is not too good/flop in the publishing world (hence not solely in the US, but the world.) I read that book by the way, and as a fan of Mary, Frederik, and the DRF in general, that book by Palshøj and Rødder... how can I say this delicately: At first I thought it was written by a couple of inexperienced writers fresh out of ITT Tech.

Quote:
I have read most of the book, which was translated for me by a friend (note: I did not ask for the translation.lol.), and I've found it quite uninspiring though not because I'm ignorant to what is an indavidual perception, it's just not an opinion I think reflects a majority concession.
I believe you would find it uninspiring if the book was roughly translated by a friend with whom we, the unbiased readers within this topic, may assume has an agenda in the first place. Or not. Who knows. Nonetheless, congrats for admitting that you actually read the book, MR, because in earlier posts one would believe, by your statements, that you haven't read the book front to back with a critical yet open mind.

Now that you actually read 1015 Kobenhaven K can you tell us why it was so uninspiring and what is your overall constructive criticism about this book and discourse? Could there have been any improvements? What was her weakest argument? What were, if any, some points that actually made you examine an issue from another angle?

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  #230  
Old 07-07-2008, 04:57 PM
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The moderator asked if I would submit a review of Trine Villemann’s “!015-K”.
It is fairly short, but I hope that it will give you an idea of the contents:

The chapters of 1015-K are, in my translation:
1. How not to make a king: On the childhood of CP Frederik
2. You don’t turn your back on your destiny; On the Queen
3. The master of thunder: On the Prince Consort
4. The royal spin doctor: On the late Queen Ingrid
5. Family- after all : On the branch of the family who lost the throne, and how!
6. Treated like a dog: On the marriage of the Prince Joachims
7. “The count” and Mrs. Jørgensen: On Martin Jørgensen and Alexandra
8. Approaching an adult mind: On CP Frederik and his role
9. He’s lucky she would have him; On CP Mary
10. It’s hard being a royalist: On RF financial affairs and logistics

Ms. Villemann intends to portray the true personalities of the Danish royals
and what shaped them. Her method: the use of anonymous sources, which
is hitherto unheard of in the chronicling of the Danish royal family.

Any reader of the British tabloid press knows how rumours and speculation on
the BRF are presented as facts by being attributed to the proverbial “courtier”
or “friend”. This is basically how “1015-K” operates. Add to that rehashed news
from the media and quotes from biographies on the individuals, and you have a “documentary” on a royal family.

There’s the story of the frequently bad tempered Queen Margrethe with the
lacking maternity skills, and her infatuation with her proud and misunderstood
French-born husband. For the average Danish reader there’s nothing new
under the sun. Tales of HMs changing moods are legion. So are reports of
her “shyness”, which IMO is a euphemism for the fact that she never inherited
her mother’s lauded sense of presence. How do I know? Well, if you live in
a country of 5. 4 mill. inhabitants it is almost impossible not to come
across somebody, who has had an encounter with the Queen, one way
or the other.

The story of the lonely childhood of CP Frederik is uncannily similar to that of
his British counterpart. Born and bred twenty years apart in two different
societies with different outlooks, the two heirs took different directions in the
attempt to overcome their insecurities, both being criticised in the process.
CP Frederik’s problem is his laziness, Villemann claims. Well, the number of
his official duties is not overwhelming but then again; how many duties are there
to undertake in a country the size of ours - including our commonwealth-
when there are other performing royals?

end of part one
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  #231  
Old 07-07-2008, 05:04 PM
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part two

Villemann’s presentation of the marriage of Prince Joachim and Princess
Alexandra does not reveal anything, which hasn’t been in the Danish public
domain already. Alexandra with the sharp intellect and the bubbly personality
is also portrayed as the manipulating control-freak wife of an appeasing
Prince Joachim. It is true? Well probably, however it never affected her
popularity! In this chapter Ms. Villemann speculates left and right on a number
of issues, which had better been left out for the sake of the overall credibility.
An example: the prospects of the 1997 hand- over of Hong Kong to PR
China prompted the former Ms. Manley to see a royal marriage as a life
insurance for herself and her family. Ms.Villemann is not the first to insinuate
that Ms.Alexandra Manley was a gold digger, however she is the first to
dream up the idea of this package –solution!

Which reminds me that there is hardly much gold to dig in the Danish Royal
family! The Glücksburgs were never well- off. A financial buffer was amassed
by the younger generations however only to be lost in a major bank crash in
1922. Queen Ingrid brought a cash infusion from her Swedish inheritance,
enabling her to support her youngest daughter and the former King Constantine
in the first years of their exile. Her will has never been made public, nor has the
value of the DRF private assets.

Villemann on her part demands transparency in the royal finances. She
is miffed that local tycoons are buying their way into the inner circle of the
DRF, as she claims, supplementing their not so hard-earned civil list money.
She wants to be informed about their private means and the proper costs
of running the royal house. She wants the state to reduce the number of
palaces at RF disposal, she even wants to reduce the line of the succession
for a reason which escapes me!

Last, but not least there’s Mary Donaldson, who is portrayed as an
insecure, commoner- turned- princess, and yet as the saviour of CP
Frederik and his reason for living. Maybe it’s just me, but my brain flatly
refuses to consolidate these conflicting takes on CP Mary!

Ms. Villemann wants to preserve the monarchy for the future, or so she claims,
and she want the Present DRF to take stock of their situation and trim their
sails for the future. She and I agree that our royal family are resting on their
laurels; immune to suggestions that there are new royal paths to explore in
the 21th century. Unfortunately she often loses her focus and fires like a
submachine in every direction.

Trine Villemann is not unintelligent, on the contrary! She is refreshingly un-pc
and her pen is smooth, fresh and objective when she is on safe ground. As
mentioned earlier the most interesting chapter is on the events leading up to the
change of the succession law in 1953.

Villemann's style is equally sloppy and chatty in the more gossipy, tabloid-like
parts of 1015-K. Especially the chapter on the Queen is inconsistent, it is badly
written for a trained journalist and it is relying on too many anonymous
quotes and flimsy sources for my taste, The discerning eye of a seasoned
editor could have nipped the recurring inconsistencies in the bud.

There is no reason to doubt that Ms.Villemann spoke to many people in the
research phase of 1015-k. However there is no reason to believe that she
ever spoke to anyone closely associated with the royals. They have too much
to lose!

I was originally in favour of Trine Villemann’s project, Now, after reading the
book and watching the follow-up from the sideline, I just cannot help wondering
if the main point of her exercise is to feed the beast of the admittedly small
and yet slowly increasing number of Danish republicans!

viv
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  #232  
Old 07-07-2008, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Viv View Post
Ifeed the beast of the admittedly small
and yet slowly increasing number of Danish republicans!

viv
Quit hoestly, if they are in progress, they are so few - that they woun't even know they are in progressing! So what's the big deel?

This is a storm in a tee-cup
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  #233  
Old 07-07-2008, 05:33 PM
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Why do you think they are so few? And in which socio economic strata do you think most of them come from?
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  #234  
Old 07-07-2008, 05:42 PM
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I was watching a "60 minutes" CBS show that had the Danes as the happiest people. They seem to have realistic expectations, have free education and free medical coverage, plenty of vacation time and they go about their lives very peacefully and happy. Personally I believe that citizens have to be upset enough to change a monarchy to a republic and these people look too laid back and content to start a revolution.
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  #235  
Old 07-07-2008, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viv View Post
part two
she even wants to reduce the line of the succession
for a reason which escapes me!
All the other excellent points you made, and which I agree with, I think that this was also one of the more baffling points in the book to me, Viv. For the average Dane, I would surmise that it doesn't matter how many are in the line of succession, as being in said line does not come with an automatic sum of money from Folketinget.

With the 1953 law, as well as other in-built features, the line of succession seems to manage to keep itself at a decent level without kicking people off for no reason at all. Elisabeth has no descendants, and Benedikte's are, for a lot of convoluted reasons, not in line. So after these two, the line ends at Joachim's children. Personally, I would suspect that eventually, we're going to see what we've seen in the Netherlands, that the ones far down in the line of succession, don't bother asking for permission before marriage.
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  #236  
Old 07-07-2008, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
Why do you think they are so few?
I don't think. I don't even know. So very few are they And what comes to social economic layers - Denmark isnt't precisely the country into which one should try to divide people into economical groups - as we have a socialist/liberal system ( and now this comment is getting very close to what is not allowed in this forum - politics)
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  #237  
Old 07-07-2008, 06:11 PM
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Viv,

Thanks for the time and effort to give a recap and your impression.
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  #238  
Old 07-07-2008, 06:40 PM
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I nice well thought out and intelligent analysis of this book. Excellent Viv, thank you!
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  #239  
Old 07-07-2008, 09:11 PM
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I don't think. I don't even know. So very few are they And what comes to social economic layers - Denmark isnt't precisely the country into which one should try to divide people into economical groups - as we have a socialist/liberal system ( and now this comment is getting very close to what is not allowed in this forum - politics)
Denmark has socio economic classes just like any other country. My question was if a partiacular group of citizens are more likely to be geared toward a future republic state. You said you knew there we just a few people that were lealning toward being republicans. So who do they tend to be? Young, old, college graduates, ......
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  #240  
Old 07-08-2008, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
Denmark has socio economic classes just like any other country. My question was if a partiacular group of citizens are more likely to be geared toward a future republic state. You said you knew there we just a few people that were lealning toward being republicans. So who do they tend to be? Young, old, college graduates, ......
Sure, but as in other Nordic countries there is a measure
of egalitarianism playing tricks with these generalizations! It is often
more about attitude and political affiliation than the socio-economic
class proper.

As I see it:

The are more republicans on the left/leftish side of the political spectrum,
including academics of the idealistic kind!

Agewise most republicans are found in the age group from 18 to 50.

Genderwise, more men are republicans than women.

Viv
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