Princess Madeleine Current Events Part 5 (April 2004-August 2004)

[batwoman]

what do you think the size princess madeleine wear,is it 42,44 or 46 france size

[Lena]

A french 42 would be a 10 in the USA, a 40 in Germany, and a 14 in GB, right??? If it´s this way I would say she has a french 42 or 40... but not more than 42.

[jine]

Hi,

oh that´s too big. Did you see the pictures of Victoria, shopping in Rome? She bought a pullover at Zara in size M (that´s a german 38 (maybe 40), so a french 40/42) but I think Madeleine is even a bit thinner than Victoria, so I would say she wears size 36/38 (in German). For example the biggest (german size) you can get at Zara is 44 (as far as I know).

[Dennism]

I do not think she is a size 10. I don`t know. That seems too big. Anyway, congrats to Jine on your first post.

[kittencrews]

Yeah, I don't think Len is a 10 US size... but perhaps who knows... remember the camera adds 10 lbs...

[GrandDuchess]

I would definitely say Princess Madeleine is a Swedish size 36/38!

[alola]

how tall is she ?

[Yennie]

Madeleine is about 1.71 m.

[Lena]

And how are swedish sizes defined? Anyway, almost every label defines sizes different. It can happen that you fit in a certain size in one shop, but not in an other. And some labels (Zara for example) changed the sizes in the last years...when you buy there a 40, some years ago it would have been a 42... I guess the reason is, that you make the customers feel more happy, when they (suddenly) fit in a smaller size
I don´t think, that Maddeleine has a smaller size than Victoria. In the pictures of the last gala she looked bigger than her sister and she is 3-4 cm (1,2-1,6 inches) taller than Victoria...

[batwoman]

i think like you lena i think she wear 40 or 42 i think she is 42 cause she saw her ones in H&M shop and she brought Large in a shirt and a jeans size 34 like 42 franch.......shes i think 10 size U.S.A. size.....she not thin but MAD. is more thinner than VIC.

[Alexandria]

Is it known that the shirt Madeleine bought at Zara's was for herself? What if she bought it as a gift for a friend who wears a larger size than her?

[batwoman]

I dont think so because she try it on and the jeans was size 32 not 34 im sorry i written it wrong ........she tried t-shirt size M and a short skirt and a jeans size 32 as i remmber........................

[Lena]

OMG, You´ve watched Madeleine at H&M...you´re my hero now, batwoman! Where (at which H&M in which city) did you watch her?

Do you buy clothes for your friends, Alexandria? I can´t remember that I´ve done this...ok, I´ve bought some of these "my friend/sister...was in Rome/at Mallorca...etc. and all I got is this T-shirt"-shirts, but there I can be sure, that it will fit...and that´s such a trashy gift, that it isn´t taken seriously...but if I would buy other clothes I usually wouldn´t know if it answers the taste of the person...
I´m not suprised, that Madeleine wears "L" at H&M shirts...I´m just about an inch (2-3cm) taller than her, and I really had all shapes you can think of (chubby to very thin) but I mostly bought shirts of a L-size (or M) at H&M...the reason is just, that as taller person you surely need longer shirts, even when you´re narrower built...otherwise the sleeves are too short and the region, where the kidneys are is always uncovered (which is nice in summer, but terrible in winter)

[batwoman]

dear lena i saw her in germany in frankfurt and their is H&M in sweden and greece and more but i brought alot of stuff t-shirts,jeans and skirts.... anyway princess Madeleine is very bueatiful,simple and classic ......you really look cool lena i really liked you.............. :flower: :flower: :flower: :P

[Alexandria]

Originally posted by Lena@Apr 5th, 2004 - 12:54 pm
Do you buy clothes for your friends, Alexandria? I can´t remember that I´ve done this

I've bought friends clothes before as bithday or Christmas presents, etc. If I know that they shop at a particular store and generally like the clothes there, then I am likely to buy them a shirt or sweater or something like that from a store. I don't think that buying clothes for friends is too personal or unheard of. And not just "jokey" or fun clothes.

[alola]

Thank you Yennie.
But, if she is 1.71 m and her american size is 10, it seems too big.
I'm 1.76 and my american size is 10 too

[Edmund]

i must say all this international variation in sizing is very very confusing - you would think they could have some sort of consensus on this. but then i guess the US uses fahrenheit and miles, when the rest of the world uses celsuis and kms so go figure.

for what my view is worth i think M is a size 12 GB/ medium overall.

[Jacqueline]

Originally posted by Alexandria+Apr 5th, 2004 - 6:48 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alexandria @ Apr 5th, 2004 - 6:48 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Lena@Apr 5th, 2004 - 12:54 pm
Do you buy clothes for your friends, Alexandria? I can´t remember that I´ve done this

I've bought friends clothes before as bithday or Christmas presents, etc. If I know that they shop at a particular store and generally like the clothes there, then I am likely to buy them a shirt or sweater or something like that from a store. I don't think that buying clothes for friends is too personal or unheard of. And not just "jokey" or fun clothes. [/b][/quote]
It certainly isn't strange to me. I usually buy my girlfriends clothes all of the time as gifts for Christmas and birthdays.

[Dennism]

Here is an article from today`s paper about the changing sizes of the average American.

By Elizabeth Wellington

Inquirer Fashion Writer

In our guts, we knew it: Americans are getting bigger.

And that's exactly what the results of a national body-size survey reveal. Our hips are wider. Our behinds are rounder. Our waistlines are disappearing.

According to the survey, aptly named SizeUSA and conducted by TC2, a North Carolina textile-research firm, 64 percent of women are pear-shaped (their hips are larger than their busts), and most are closer to a size 16 than a size 8.

Men have larger chests than they used to, and potbellies abound.

Interesting facts, but important, too. Fashion is big business: According to U.S. government figures, we spent $311 billion on apparel and shoes last year. And so, fashion-industry observers say, the SizeUSA data released last month could have broad implications for the way Americans, especially women, will be shopping in the future.

That's likely to mean more than just expanded floor space for plus sizes. Department-store buyers and boutique owners say the data will help them integrate better-fitting clothing throughout their stores.

"This has the potential to lead to the revision of sizes, and maybe add to new sizes that reflect our change in our shape," says Jim Lovejoy, the survey's director.

Back in 1941, the last time a size survey was done, researchers took the measurements of mostly white men and women to make uniforms for the armed services. Women then averaged a size 8, with chest, waist and hip measurements of 35-27-37.5. Today, white women between 18 and 35 come in solidly at 39.1-32.6-41.8, the SizeUSA survey says.

In 1941, men averaged a 40-regular; with chest at 40 inches, waist at 34 inches, and hips 40 inches. Today, white men 18 to 35 come in at an average 41.7-inch chest, 35.6-inch waist, and 41.2-inch hips.

"I think an actual survey is what was needed to change how the retailer viewed the customer," says Nate Herman, an international trade adviser and economic expert for the American Apparel Association. "The study can completely reorient what sizes manufacturers make."

Even a change in how we view our bodies may be possible if a size 14-16 woman is now just average and no longer poised on the boundary of big.

In recent years, department stores began noticing that, for some women, shopping is more of a chore than an outing. Buying a suit, especially a pantsuit, can mean trying on umpteen tops and dozens of trousers because sizes differ from designer to designer, and season to season.

With the SizeUSA data, department-store chains say, they hope to standardize sizes at least in the collections they design and manufacture - their own private-label brands, which are becoming more important because they are one way a department store can stand out.

J.C. Penney, for instance, plans to cut new patterns for its Worthington (women's wear) and Stafford (menswear) brands based on the SizeUSA specs. The clothes will be roomier, spokeswoman Christi Byrd Smith says, and will be adjusted so women with a size 6 waist and size 12 hips can find something comfortable.

"When you get into tailored clothing, the sizing is more critical," Smith says. "The majority of clothes in the industry don't fit body types anymore. Women are frustrated because there is no consistent sizing."

Buyers at Federated Department Stores, which includes Macy's and Bloomingdale's, are using the survey results to ensure women's and men's outerwear sizes correlate to undergarments, panty hose and shoes.

"There is a disconnect," Gale Weisenfeld, a vice president at Federated, says. "If you are wearing a 16 to 18 pant, then you are not wearing a size 5 in underpants and you'll need shells that are large, not small or medium."

•

TC2 is a nonprofit research and technology firm specializing in sewn products. About four years ago, it introduced its latest digital body scanner.

People are scanned wearing spandex shorts and sports bras that don't alter the body's shape. It takes 12 seconds for flashing white lights to record measurements from more than 200,000 points on the body, which will later translate to more than 200 dimensions that correspond to hips, bust, and neck, length of arms, and so on.

About two years ago, Lovejoy and his staff embarked on the SizeUSA survey. With contributions from industry big guns including Penney's and Sarah Lee (the parent company of Hanes), they took a digital scanner to 13 cities, measuring blacks, whites and Hispanics, among others, ages 18 to 65. In all, about 6,300 women and 3,700 men passed through the scanner.

Researchers are still culling information from the nearly 1,000-page SizeUSA report. But some of the early findings include evidence that black women are bigger than white women and more likely to have a pear shape. Hispanic women are not quite as big as black women, but are bigger than their white counterparts and have "rounder" stomachs. Women over 55 of all races are less likely to have defined waists, and white women's stomachs are more likely to stick out an inch or more past the waist.

Hispanic men, the report says, are smaller than their black and white counterparts.

"All the measurements get bigger as people get older," Lovejoy says. "It's not new news... . The value comes in when people start trying to follow a particular customer set, like the baby boomer."

The data also suggest that body proportions are morphing. For example, women with smaller busts now have hips that years ago were typical of women with bigger busts. Lovejoy says that may be because more people are of mixed race today and people in general are less active.

Income doesn't seem to alter our size, the report says. People who made less than $49,000 a year had the same measurements as those who made more than $75,000.

And the findings show both men and women have gained an average of four pounds since the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recorded average height and weight in 1994. Women now average 144 pounds; men average 175.

Lovejoy says he's heard from anthropologists who think the data have the potential to help them gain a better understanding of modern-day evolution. TC2 is helping conduct size surveys in Mexico and London.

•

The most positive change to come from the data may be a shift in how we view our bodies, but that's several years off, fashion experts say.

If women, despite what they see in the media, can make the mental jump and embrace their size 14-16 frames as normal, it may force designers and retailers to stop lumping those bigger than size 14 into the plus category - where style sometimes takes a back seat.

Some retailers believe plus-size women like having their own departments and designer labels because it makes shopping easier. "They don't have to wade through size 2's and 4's," says Diane Daly, fashion spokeswoman for May Co., which includes Strawbridge's.

And some designers believe their customers don't measure more than a size 12. If they do, those designers say, the economic impact is so minimal it's not worth making the fashions bigger.

"These designers know their markets and are happy with them," says Sandra DePue, adjunct instructor in the senior design school at Moore College of Art & Design.

The real change will come, she says, when designers admit most of their business comes from regular people, not from celebrities made perfect with tummy tucks.

"In their heads, designers are designing for actors and actresses who are glamorous," DePue says. "I don't see where sizing is going to change that concept until we change our minds about what's beautiful."


And here are the charts:

Size Standard in 1941 for women


Bust 35.0

Waist 27.0

Hips 37.5


White Women 18-35

39.1 32.6. 41.8

Black Women 18-35

41.2 34.3. 44.0

Hispanic women 18-35

40.3 33.7 41.8


White women 36-65

41.5 35.1 43.9

Black women 36-65

43.5 37.4 45.9

Hispanic women 36-65

43.0 36.5 43.9

[Lena]

Are you sure, that Victoria wears a bigger size than Madeleine? I ask, because in recent photos Madeleine looks bigger
Len+Vic

The strange thing is, that people ALWAYS have this picture of a plump Victoria with chubby cheeks in their minds...and a picture of a super-thin Madeleine. And IMO all this was reality in 2000 or 2001. But in the last years Victoria´s face became much thinner (her face looks more mature now) and Madeleine has re-gained a little weight (as young teenager she was chubbier too)...