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  #1461  
Old 09-19-2013, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
Let´s assume that we were invited to a dinner with a Princess Sofia H.,we would certainly leave a bad impression if we did not follow the protocol, so if it was expected to bow to her, it should be done-regardless if I (or anyone) respects her or not.
When I am working I also have to talk and work with some people that I am not very fond of, but it would be highly unproffessional if I showed my true feelings.
Apart from that I completely agree with other posters who wrote that S.H can´t be compared to Vicky Andrén, Grace Kelly or Mabel Wisse Smit - I find it insulting to compare a photomodel, Hollywood actress or an acomplished intellectual lady to a soft-porn model.
If women make that sort of pictures like S.H it does not hurt anyone, but I hate it when they are presented like a new Mother Theresa...I will respect S.H if she manages to be discreet,stops talking to the press and when she shows that her charity work is more than just a PR-stunt. Disadvantaged children in Africa should not be instrumentalised and used to buy positive media reports.
Is she using her charity work for her own PR advantage? I don't see any real hard evidence of this. Of course some light has shined down on Project Playground because of who's she dating but I personally see that as a good thing. Carl Philip has attended many of the charity's benefits and posed on the red carpet and have helped bring some attention the cause.

I think she really believes in Project Playground and probably work very hard with the team behind the scenes.
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  #1462  
Old 09-19-2013, 10:31 PM
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I'm Swedish. I can't say that I care too much about pictures taken of Sofia in the past. My biggest problem is her participation in Paradise Hotel. The concept of that show, for those who haven't seen it, is this:

Young men and women competes about who can remain on the hotel for the longest time. You are only allowed to stay if you find a roomate of the opposite sex every week. One person is sent home in every episode, and another one is chosen to join the game. It's not just implied that the new (and old) couples have sex -it's actually both filmed (although not always aired) and discussed more or less open on the show.

I have no idea how Sofia played the game. But just the fact that she chose to participate says something, and that something is what bothers me more than any of the pictures I've seen of her.

Does this mean that she can't marry Carl Philip? Of course not. But I would say that she has some way to go before I can take her seriously. The "Project Playground" is just ridiculous, IMO. Not the project itself, but her involvement. I would like her to step up to the plate and admit her past mistakes, not just pretend like they never happened. Mette-Marit set a good example to follow.

Like many people here, I see an engagement announcement coming up very soon. I hope she has the guts to admit her past mistakes and do something genuine and honest in the future. If she does, I would be fine with her as Carl Philips wife.
Ummmmm.......WHAT. THE. HELL??!

I have to agree...
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  #1463  
Old 09-19-2013, 10:32 PM
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Ummmmm.......WHAT. THE. HELL??!
Exactly, strange.
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  #1464  
Old 09-19-2013, 10:36 PM
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The difference is, neither Mette nor Camilla made out with porn stars and I don't see this as going down well with even the liberal minded Swedes.

Thank you; we'll find out if it is love or not once she finds out that she won't be making it to the title of princess.
If she kissed a porn star, does that make her a very bad person who don't deserve to find love, even if he's a Prince?
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  #1465  
Old 09-19-2013, 10:40 PM
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If she kissed a porn star, does that make her a very bad person who don't deserve to find love, even if he's a Prince?
No, but I personally find the idea a trifle distasteful. I would hope a person would have higher standards than that, but to each his/her own I suppose. I do not agree with such activity.
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  #1466  
Old 09-19-2013, 10:43 PM
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If she kissed a porn star, does that make her a very bad person who don't deserve to find love, even if he's a Prince?
If she can't control her impulses, is it a good idea to expose her to the power that being a princess of Sweden brings? Camilla as far as I know had her issues (issues I'm tired of hearing about) and so does Mette (past history); this being today, Sofia's behavior has had red flag after red flag come up and I wonder what else will come out once she is a princess and is considered public property.

Camilla is a royal duchess and is content with a morganatic title and I think Sofia should be given one, given all the work the courtiers are going to have to do to clean up her image and make her respectable enough.
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  #1467  
Old 09-19-2013, 10:47 PM
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If she can't control her impulses, is it a good idea to expose her to the power that being a princess of Sweden brings? Camilla as far as I know had her issues (issues I'm tired of hearing about) and so does Mette (past history); this being today, Sofia's behavior has had red flag after red flag come up and I wonder what else will come out once she is a princess and is considered public property.

Camilla is a royal duchess and is content with a morganatic title and I think Sofia should be given one, given all the work the courtiers are going to have to do to clean up her image and make her respectable enough.
Well said . Also Camilla did come from some aristocratic background.
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:50 PM
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I'm no fan of porn stars either but Sofia is no porn star and even if she kissed one in the past, I wouldn't look down on her or anything.

I think Carl Philip's standards are probably high and Sofia probably meet his standards. I really don't see him falling for a really bad person. He probably see her as a really nice, funny and kind person that he fell in love with. I don't know for sure if it all will lead to marriage but, if so, then I think she must be a very kind, generous, funny and loving person in real life. I don't know if the family would embrace her as they have if she wasn't none of those things.
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  #1469  
Old 09-19-2013, 11:13 PM
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Sofia is sweet to them because she has to keep them sweet to keep them on her side. I would be wary of someone who is still uninterested in a formal job. She's not living on her own and making her own way. She's living with CP in a large mansion and funded by the taxpayers. Obviously she isn't going to rock that boat by being openly demanding or controlling or at all unpleasant.

She isn't stupid, but I don't think she is sweet as she projects herself to be to the RF and the public (when she is out in public). If she were so sweet and pleasant, why would she push to become a bridesmaid at the wedding of Madeleine, CP pushing to the point where Madeleine decided against bridesmaids and decided in a children's choir? She apparently has no problem injecting herself into events where she has no sensible reason for being there.

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Well said . Also Camilla did come from some aristocratic background.
Camilla was gentry her whole life.
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  #1470  
Old 09-19-2013, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
If she can't control her impulses, is it a good idea to expose her to the power that being a princess of Sweden brings? Camilla as far as I know had her issues (issues I'm tired of hearing about) and so does Mette (past history); this being today, Sofia's behavior has had red flag after red flag come up and I wonder what else will come out once she is a princess and is considered public property.

Camilla is a royal duchess and is content with a morganatic title and I think Sofia should be given one, given all the work the courtiers are going to have to do to clean up her image and make her respectable enough.
What kind of bad impulses does she have that would count against her, If, she became engaged and married Prince Carl Philip?

Sure in the past she posed for pictures that wasn't to everyone's liking and she participated on a reality show but does that really make her a bad person? Does that mean she's not deserving of love, friendship, companionship with Carl Philip?

I'm not sure the palace would have to work overtime on Sofia's image but I think it would help for them to allow people to get to know the person who Carl Philip fell in love with and the family has embraced. From what I see, the family and palace officials don't seem to be all worked up about Sofia's past. If so, I don't think we would've seen Sofia so close to the family. I don't think she would've been seen sitting with the family at Princess Lilian's funeral, Estelle's Christening, Madeleine's wedding and even other family weddings. The palace and family even allowed Sofia to pose with the family at Madeleine & Chris's banns of marriage and she's in the official group wedding photo.

Is Sofia Hellqvist a bad person and not suitable for marriage to Carl Philip as some on here claims? I'm not really getting that vibe from Carl Philip and the royal family.

What does Camilla's aristocratic background have to do with anything?


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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
If she were so sweet and pleasant, why would she push to become a bridesmaid at the wedding of Madeleine, CP pushing to the point where Madeleine decided against bridesmaids and decided in a children's choir? She apparently has no problem injecting herself into events where she has no sensible reason for being there.
Did Sofia really push to be Madeleine's bridesmaid? I'm thinking that was a tabloid story leading up to the wedding. We all know the media enjoy coming up with juicy stories leading up to these royal weddings.
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  #1471  
Old 09-19-2013, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
What kind of bad impulses does she have that would count against her, If, she became engaged and married Prince Carl Philip?

Sure in the past she posed for pictures that wasn't to everyone's liking and she participated on a reality show but does that really make her a bad person? Does that mean she's not deserving of love, friendship, companionship with Carl Philip?

I'm not sure the palace would have to work overtime on Sofia's image but I think it would help for them to allow people to get to know the person who Carl Philip fell in love with and the family has embraced. From what I see, the family and palace officials don't seem to be all worked up about Sofia's past. If so, I don't think we would've seen Sofia so close to the family. I don't think she would've been seen sitting with the family at Princess Lilian's funeral, Estelle's Christening, Madeleine's wedding and even other family weddings. The palace and family even allowed Sofia to pose with the family at Madeleine & Chris's banns of marriage and she's in the official group wedding photo.

Is Sofia Hellqvist a bad person and not suitable for marriage to Carl Philip as some on here claims? I'm not really getting that vibe from Carl Philip and the royal family.

What does Camilla's aristocratic background have to do with anything?

I do not think it makes her a bad person, but rather makes her ability to discern the consequences of her actions come into question. Would I have made the same choices she has made? No. But then again, I am not her.
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  #1472  
Old 09-19-2013, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post

If she can't control her impulses, is it a good idea to expose her to the power that being a princess of Sweden brings? Camilla as far as I know had her issues (issues I'm tired of hearing about) and so does Mette (past history); this being today, Sofia's behavior has had red flag after red flag come up and I wonder what else will come out once she is a princess and is considered public property.

Camilla is a royal duchess and is content with a morganatic title and I think Sofia should be given one, given all the work the courtiers are going to have to do to clean up her image and make her respectable enough.
Actually, at this point in the game, Camilla is not in a morganatic marriage. Morganatic marriages do not exist in Britain. She is both the Princess of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall because her husband is both Prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwall. She choses to use the lesser of the two titles not because her marriage is morganatic, but out of respect to the memory of her husband's deceased first wife, in respect to his children, and in respect to the many people who loved Diana.

While Sweden may have practiced morganatic marriages in the past it seems like they've moved on from it. Two of the king's three children have entered into marriages with commoners, CP will be the third to do so. As neither Victoria nor Madelaine were required to give up their status or positions and enter into a morganatic marriage, for CP to be expected to if he married Sofia would be the SRF essentially saying "despite the fact that we obviously don't have perfect pasts, we can't consider you to be good enough to be a part of this family on the basis that you partook in activities that - while perfectly legal and really not harming anyone - are considered to be morally reprehensible by foreign citizens."
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  #1473  
Old 09-19-2013, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
If she can't control her impulses, is it a good idea to expose her to the power that being a princess of Sweden brings? Camilla as far as I know had her issues (issues I'm tired of hearing about) and so does Mette (past history); this being today, Sofia's behavior has had red flag after red flag come up and I wonder what else will come out once she is a princess and is considered public property.

Camilla is a royal duchess and is content with a morganatic title and I think Sofia should be given one, given all the work the courtiers are going to have to do to clean up her image and make her respectable enough.
Camilla does not have a morganatic title. She is acknowledged as legally, the Princess of Wales, and chooses to use one of her husband's other titles.

Morganatic marriage does not exist in the UK.
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  #1474  
Old 09-19-2013, 11:32 PM
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I do not think it makes her a bad person, but rather makes her ability to discern the consequences of her actions come into question. Would I have made the same choices she has made? No. But then again, I am not her.
That is what happens, some people make choices that some of us don't agree with. That's just reality but I just see the happiness on Carl Philip's face when he's with Sofia and the family seems to enjoy her company and invite her to some of the family's events. I think it goes to show that there's something more to Sofia that they have gotten to know than the rest of us looking in from the outside.

Not to bring Camilla up too much here but her past was no bowl of cherries and yes it took some major PR work to sell her to the people but from what I see, Charles seems to love her and the rest of the royal family have taken to her so I guess they saw something more in her than her past activities.
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  #1475  
Old 09-19-2013, 11:32 PM
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Also, you know... I hear all the time here, insinuations that Sofia would be a bad role model for young girls. And I've been thinking on that for awhile and trying to put my thoughts on that into words, and I read something today that made those thoughts a bit clearer.

All over the U.S., there have been stories of young women committing suicide because a picture of them nude was released without their consent and they were bullied over it. They were called horrible names, and made to feel like that's all they'd ever be and they'd never be valued again... that their reputation was shattered and life was no longer worth living.

To me... for those girls... someone like Sofia could be exactly the role model they need. Someone who does get called names in the media, who is constantly mocked for her choices, and who people call rude names and make fun of... and yet she holds her head high, does things with her life, and doesn't let that define her. And if she ends up a royal princess, in total defiance of those expectations- that sends a powerful message that young women can screw up, and make mistakes and still be loved, and valued, and contribute.

All the girls out there that maintain a perfect life... they already have princess role models. Women like Kate and Stephanie, who have lived fairly blameless and discreet lives.

I kind of love the idea of a princess role model for the other girls. The girls who are damaged and hurting and exploited and shamed. And I'd love to see Sofia pull it off, personally.

Article that triggered these thoughts: Sexting, Shame and Suicide | Culture News | Rolling Stone
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:37 PM
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Also, you know... I hear all the time here, insinuations that Sofia would be a bad role model for young girls. And I've been thinking on that for awhile and trying to put my thoughts on that into words, and I read something today that made those thoughts a bit clearer.

All over the U.S., there have been stories of young women committing suicide because a picture of them nude was released without their consent and they were bullied over it. They were called horrible names, and made to feel like that's all they'd ever be and they'd never be valued again... that their reputation was shattered and life was no longer worth living.

To me... for those girls... someone like Sofia could be exactly the role model they need. Someone who does get called names in the media, who is constantly mocked for her choices, and who people call rude names and make fun of... and yet she holds her head high, does things with her life, and doesn't let that define her. And if she ends up a royal princess, in total defiance of those expectations- that sends a powerful message that young women can screw up, and make mistakes and still be loved, and valued, and contribute.

All the girls out there that maintain a perfect life... they already have princess role models. Women like Kate and Stephanie, who have lived fairly blameless and discreet lives.

I kind of love the idea of a princess role model for the other girls. The girls who are damaged and hurting and exploited and shamed. And I'd love to see Sofia pull it off, personally.

Article that triggered these thoughts: Sexting, Shame and Suicide | Culture News | Rolling Stone
A very thoughtful and insightful comment, HRHHermione.
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  #1477  
Old 09-20-2013, 12:13 AM
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Also, you know... I hear all the time here, insinuations that Sofia would be a bad role model for young girls. And I've been thinking on that for awhile and trying to put my thoughts on that into words, and I read something today that made those thoughts a bit clearer.

All over the U.S., there have been stories of young women committing suicide because a picture of them nude was released without their consent and they were bullied over it. They were called horrible names, and made to feel like that's all they'd ever be and they'd never be valued again... that their reputation was shattered and life was no longer worth living.

To me... for those girls... someone like Sofia could be exactly the role model they need. Someone who does get called names in the media, who is constantly mocked for her choices, and who people call rude names and make fun of... and yet she holds her head high, does things with her life, and doesn't let that define her. And if she ends up a royal princess, in total defiance of those expectations- that sends a powerful message that young women can screw up, and make mistakes and still be loved, and valued, and contribute.

All the girls out there that maintain a perfect life... they already have princess role models. Women like Kate and Stephanie, who have lived fairly blameless and discreet lives.

I kind of love the idea of a princess role model for the other girls. The girls who are damaged and hurting and exploited and shamed. And I'd love to see Sofia pull it off, personally.

Article that triggered these thoughts: Sexting, Shame and Suicide | Culture News | Rolling Stone
I still don't think SH is the best choice for CP and Sweden, but I do think this is one of the most honest and sensitive posts I've read on TRF. You make some good points.
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Old 09-20-2013, 12:20 AM
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I still don't think SH is the best choice for CP and Sweden, but I do think this is one of the most honest and sensitive posts I've read on TRF. You make some good points.
Thank you, I really appreciate that.
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Old 09-20-2013, 12:39 AM
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Also, you know... I hear all the time here, insinuations that Sofia would be a bad role model for young girls. And I've been thinking on that for awhile and trying to put my thoughts on that into words, and I read something today that made those thoughts a bit clearer.

All over the U.S., there have been stories of young women committing suicide because a picture of them nude was released without their consent and they were bullied over it. They were called horrible names, and made to feel like that's all they'd ever be and they'd never be valued again... that their reputation was shattered and life was no longer worth living.

To me... for those girls... someone like Sofia could be exactly the role model they need. Someone who does get called names in the media, who is constantly mocked for her choices, and who people call rude names and make fun of... and yet she holds her head high, does things with her life, and doesn't let that define her. And if she ends up a royal princess, in total defiance of those expectations- that sends a powerful message that young women can screw up, and make mistakes and still be loved, and valued, and contribute.

All the girls out there that maintain a perfect life... they already have princess role models. Women like Kate and Stephanie, who have lived fairly blameless and discreet lives.

I kind of love the idea of a princess role model for the other girls. The girls who are damaged and hurting and exploited and shamed. And I'd love to see Sofia pull it off, personally.

Article that triggered these thoughts: Sexting, Shame and Suicide | Culture News | Rolling Stone
I agree with you to an extent. While I to have read the articles on young girls committing suicide over silly choices not always within their control, Sofia is a little different. Sofia chose to take this path, she made CAREER choices where nudity and sexual innuendo factual or perceived, were part of the job. Most of these girls did not willingly make these choices and therefore felt shame and a loss of their control. Sofia has always been in control of her choices.

As a mum of two daughters both teenagers, the only positive I would take and share with my girls about Sofia, is that each person deserves a second chance to prove they have grown and can make better life decisions.

If I had to choose a princess as a role model for my girls it would be Mary. Here is a woman who lived her life, worked, was independent, educated, travelled and had a good circle of friends with no skeletons in the closet. All these things are now evident in the way she conducts herself. But you are right, Sofia should be given a little slack to prove herself and to be allowed to 'grow up' from these not always wise decisions of the past.
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Old 09-20-2013, 12:49 AM
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I agree with you to an extent. While I to have read the articles on young girls committing suicide over silly choices not always within their control, Sofia is a little different. Sofia chose to take this path, she made CAREER choices where nudity and sexual innuendo factual or perceived, were part of the job. Most of these girls did not willingly make these choices and therefore felt shame and a loss of their control. Sofia has always been in control of her choices.

As a mum of two daughters both teenagers, the only positive I would take and share with my girls about Sofia, is that each person deserves a second chance to prove they have grown and can make better life decisions.

If I had to choose a princess as a role model for my girls it would be Mary. Here is a woman who lived her life, worked, was independent, educated, travelled and had a good circle of friends with no skeletons in the closet. All these things are now evident in the way she conducts herself. But you are right, Sofia should be given a little slack to prove herself and to be allowed to 'grow up' from these not always wise decisions of the past.
But a big part of the reason these girls feel so much shame is because there are so many messages telling them it's something they should be ashamed of- that it's a lapse in judgement they'll never live down.

Yes, Sofia chose this and was in control, but she still got called all the same things- prostitute, dirty, whore, slut. (Apologies if some of those words are not appropriate here, but I use them in context to make a point.) And if she refuses to let her life and character be defined by those words- what it says is that you can escape that. Who you are is up to you, and other people's ugly words do not define your life or your character.

I fully agree with you that Mary is a lovely role model, but if god forbid, one of your girls is ever hurt and bullied in this manner, I'm sure the first thing you'd say is that your love for them is unconditional and unshakeable, and their love for themselves should be the same way. And in that scenario- it might be helpful to be able to point out that other women have been bullied and shamed and still manage to love themselves and live exactly the life they want to live.
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Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


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