Press Reports & Discussion about Carl Philip and Sofia Hellqvist - Part 2; April '12-

[Moonmaiden23]

If Carl-Philip has his heart set on marrying her he should be allowed to...as Carl-Philip Bernadotte and NOT as a Royal Prince and representative of the SRF.

I completely agree with Nice Nofret. Sofia is not the devil, she might be a nice person indeed. But every action you take in your life has consequences, and sorry but a past as a porn model/actress rules out a future as a Royal princess, imo.

He should do the decent thing and give up his title and go live quietly with Sofia as a non-Royal.

But based on her obvious glee at being in the spotlight at Princess Estelle's christening, I can't imagine that this is a solution that would please Ms. Hellqvist.

[Lumutqueen]

Someone who knows more about Swedish Royalty, can they tell me how CP would even go about 'giving' up his title? Does he renounce it, does it go through the court, does The King have to do anything?

I agree that this is what CP should do, but how does he go about it?

[NGalitzine]

Is there any need or expectation that CP adopt a life devoted to royal engagements? I know in the UK that is the expected career path for the monarchs children but it is not the case in all European monarchies. In The Netherlands the younger children of the monarch have followed their own career paths. Aside from Friso who lost his place in the succession, Constantinj had an approved marriage but rarely undertakes official engagements and lives mostly outside the country. In Norway Martha Louise had an approved marriage but follows a career writing and talking about angels etc and now she too lives outside the country and undertakes limited engagements mostly of a family nature.
I can't see any reason why CP should not marry and retain his titles, pursue a career of his choice and only undertake engagements on an as needed basis. CG, Silvia, Victoria and now Daniel can undertake the official duties of the family, only calling in CP and Madeleine as needed.
Given the limited number of potential heirs in Sweden, limiting the line by removing CP and his line does not seem an especially good thing to do. Accidents and illnesses happen and one never knows who may be unexpectedly called up.

[Meraude]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

Someone who knows more about Swedish Royalty, can they tell me how CP would even go about 'giving' up his title? Does he renounce it, does it go through the court, does The King have to do anything?

I agree that this is what CP should do, but how does he go about it?

The easiest way is to marry without consent from the king and the government.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by Meraude

The easiest way is to marry without consent from the king and the government.

Is there another way? If The King agrees to the marriage, then the easy way is out.

[tommy100]

I wonder if the King could officially not agree to the marriage so as to allow CP to give up his titles etc but actually approve of the marriage as a father and say so publicly?

[Artemisia]

Assuming that's the way things proceed, would it not be easier if Carl Philip simply didn't seek the King's consent?
Similar to Johan Friso of the Netherlands when he married Mabel without requesting his mother's or the Parliament's consent.

That would spare the King the discomfort of having to officially "reject" his son's future wife.

[Frelinghighness]

Had no axe to grind either way w/Sofia but her behavior during Estelle's christening really made a poor impression w/ me. Contrast it w/fiancee of GDuke of Lux, both the same age (worlds apart)

[Al_bina]

Ms. Hellqvist and Countess Stephanie de Lannoy are worlds apart. It has nothing to do with age.

[LadyFinn]

Expressen writes today about Carl Philip's and Sofia's nightclub fight, and finnish MTV3 quotes Expressen.

The incident has received much attention in the media, but the investigation of the case seems to have stopped. According to Expressen no one has made a police report.
- Carl Philip has not notified the police, and now the court will examine whether there is need for a police investigation. They want to forget the case as quickly as possible, Expressen's court reporter says.

To the court the club brawl is unpleasant and difficult.
- The trial may take more than a year, and now at the court it is discussed whether this is all worth it, the court spokesman says for Expressen.
Carl Philip's part at the fight is not clear. The doorman of the club says that Carl Philip was provoked before the fight, but the Swedish Royal Court says that the situation took place suddenly, without provocation.
- These are the kind of things that have to be considered when we will decide how we are going to proceed in this, it is told from the court.
Carl Philipin osuus baaritappelussa epäselvä - MTV3.fi

[Meraude]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

Is there another way? If The King agrees to the marriage, then the easy way is out.

The government could always say no, even if the king agrees to a marriage.

An other option to get out of the order of succession is to change his religion, having any other religion than the "pure evangelical faith" of the Church of Sweden excludes a prince or princess from the Swedish Order of Succession.

[EIIR]

I feel that much of the criticism around Sofia's past is unfair. The reality is that the vast majority of people don't live their lives thinking that they'd better not do anything that might be in any way questionable just in case they one day meet and fall in love with a royal or a politician or whatever. They don't say to themselves, 'should I do this? If I were to meet a Prince and fall in love with him, the press will bring this up and make things really difficult for us'. Sofia chose to take a career path the some people may not like, but it wasn't illegal; she wasn't the first and certainly won't be the last woman to make those kinds of decisions. We don't know the context in her life in which Sofia made those decisions, whether she was having money problems, or going through a tough time.

Mette-Marit chose to take illegal drugs before she met and married Haakon. Anyone choosing to buy and consume drugs is choosing to take part in a trade which kills millions of, in many cases, the poorest people in the world, and enriches murderers and tyrants. It's a crime, and certainly not a victimless one. M-M apologised for her actions and has been forgiven, which is only right and fair.

I just don't feel that Sofia's past should define her for the rest of her life. Carl Philip is unlikely to be be King, so he has much more leeway when choosing a spouse than Victoria had.

Is Sofia likely to be in receipt of taxpayer funds if she marries C-P? Is she even likely to be a working royal? If not, I don't see how anyone could have much of a problem with her marrying C-P.

[Empress Merel]

Originally Posted by EIIR

I feel that much of the criticism around Sofia's past is unfair. The reality is that the vast majority of people don't live their lives thinking that they'd better not do anything that might be in any way questionable just in case they one day meet and fall in love with a royal or a politician or whatever. They don't say to themselves, 'should I do this? If I were to meet a Prince and fall in love with him, the press will bring this up and make things really difficult for us'. Sofia chose to take a career path the some people may not like, but it wasn't illegal; she wasn't the first and certainly won't be the last woman to make those kinds of decisions. We don't know the context in her life in which Sofia made those decisions, whether she was having money problems, or going through a tough time.

Mette-Marit chose to take illegal drugs before she met and married Haakon. Anyone choosing to buy and consume drugs is choosing to take part in a trade which kills millions of, in many cases, the poorest people in the world, and enriches murderers and tyrants. It's a crime, and certainly not a victimless one. M-M apologised for her actions and has been forgiven, which is only right and fair.

I just don't feel that Sofia's past should define her for the rest of her life. Carl Philip is unlikely to be be King, so he has much more leeway when choosing a spouse than Victoria had.

Is Sofia likely to be in receipt of taxpayer funds if she marries C-P? Is she even likely to be a working royal? If not, I don't see how anyone could have much of a problem with her marrying C-P.

You said it much better than I ever could.
Atleast Sofia earned her own money fair and square. More power to her.

[An Ard Ri]

In the past Swedish Princes who married 'commoners' were forced to relinquish their succession rights and all royal titles.

3 of the King's sisters,Princesses Christina,Margaretha and Désirée all lost their style of ' Royal Highness' but retained their prefix of "Princess" but not of Sweden.

[LadyFinn]

Originally Posted by EIIR

I feel that much of the criticism around Sofia's past is unfair. The reality is that the vast majority of people don't live their lives thinking that they'd better not do anything that might be in any way questionable just in case they one day meet and fall in love with a royal or a politician or whatever. They don't say to themselves, 'should I do this? If I were to meet a Prince and fall in love with him, the press will bring this up and make things really difficult for us'. Sofia chose to take a career path the some people may not like, but it wasn't illegal; she wasn't the first and certainly won't be the last woman to make those kinds of decisions. We don't know the context in her life in which Sofia made those decisions, whether she was having money problems, or going through a tough time.

Sofia started to pose in these questionable photos when she was 16 years old, so she hardly had money problems, since she was a minor and her parents were taking care of her. I am still wondering, why her parents let her do it.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by Frelinghighness

Had no axe to grind either way w/Sofia but her behavior during Estelle's christening really made a poor impression w/ me. Contrast it w/fiancee of GDuke of Lux, both the same age (worlds apart)

You are exactly right. I was actually starting to soften toward her...until that christening. Dirty photos, boasting on the Internet, declaring that fame was her goal in life, grinning wildly at the cameras in the Royal Chapel...Hellqvist has continued to show her true colors from the beginning up to the current day.

I don't expect that all Royal princes must marry a Stephanie de Lannoy or a Mathilde d'Udekem d'Acoz...Letizia of Spain is a great example of a woman who had a controversial background but has conducted herself flawlessly in the spotlight.

It's not just about Sofia's past for me...it's a matter of her dubious character and how she continues to portray herself.

[miche]

What exactly was her behavior at the christening and what was wrong with it?

[EIIR]

Originally Posted by LadyFinn

Sofia started to pose in these questionable photos when she was 16 years old, so she hardly had money problems, since she was a minor and her parents were taking care of her. I am still wondering, why her parents let her do it.

So, it's unlikely to have been money problems that precipitated the decision to pose for these photos. More likely she was immature and silly, and seemingly without the kind of parents who could convince her that doing so would have consequences for her long after the money she received for them had been long spent. Or maybe she fell in with the wrong crowd and was beyond her parents' influence.

Let's face it, she's hardly the first 16 year old girl to make crap decisions without properly considering what it would mean for her in the future.

From what I can see, she's no longer part of that 'glamour' industry, the King (whose own past is not exactly sparklingly clean by his own admission) and Queen have opened their lives to her, C-P seems determined to stay with her, so what's the problem? So she wouldn't be considered by some to be 'princess' material, but she wouldn't be the first prince/princess we could say that about.

[Boris]

Considering the fact that the photos which are the most pornographic known of her so far were taken briefly before Miss Hellqvist met Prince Carl Philip (not the ‘Miss Slitz’ snake pics) and thus almost a decade after the mistakes of youth, it took her a rather long time to fall out of the ‘wrong crowd’ again.
Her teenage pics are a bit disturbing as she looks younger than sixteen, and with their suggestive imagery they actually might qualify as children soft porn. Therefore I can understand why LadyFinn wonders how any parent could have been comfortable with them.
More disturbing at present IMHO is something like a joint tabloid interview about an early morning drunken brawl which offers details contradicted by other eye witnesses; it’s the kind of PR effort to be expected from the fame-hungry and/or former reality TV show contestants, but not from Royals or royal partners.
As for comparisons with other royal partners from the past, the striving for celebrity status as the only goal and occupation in life and behaving accordingly is exactly the major - and for me, worrying - difference between her and them.

[Meraude]

Originally Posted by EIIR

Is Sofia likely to be in receipt of taxpayer funds if she marries C-P? Is she even likely to be a working royal? If not, I don't see how anyone could have much of a problem with her marrying C-P.

If she becomes HRH princess Sofia of Sweden there are no doubt that she will be considered a working royal, the same way as princess Lilian became a working royal when she married prince Bertil in 1976. As such she will have her expenses paid for official commitments the same way as queen Siliva, prince Carl Philip and princess Madeleine has their expenses met from money the king get from the taxpayers. The only way I can see how Sofia won't be "paid" by the taxpayers are that she don't get a royal title and don't take part in any official royal commitments. I don't think it will be possible for her to be a HRH and a non-working royal at the same time, the Swedish royal family is so small that if Carl Philip continues to be a royal, his spouse will also have to be a working royal.