Press Reports about Carl Philip and Sofia Hellqvist, Part 1: Jan. 2010 - April 2012

[Lumutqueen]

Breeding?? Really?? We are talking about a human being not an entry in the Westminster Dog Show.

I think LadyFinn may have used the word breeding for what we would call upbringing perhaps.

I just wonder, if Carl were normal and had to make his own way in the world, would he have anything to do with Sofia? If he didn't have taxpayers paying his own way, I am more than sure that he would think twice about getting too serious with Sofia.

I'm confused - you're saying because he has money he's going after Sofia? But if he didn't have any money he wouldn't be going after her? Why? Surely it should be the other way around? If you're a family born to money/royalty you tend to be either led or forced to marry someone of the same stature.

 

[LadyFinn]

Yes, I meant upbringing, thank you for correcting.

 

[HRHHermione]

Sorry. I have a very conservative personality, but I can't see where posing nude makes Sofia BAD. We all have a past, some overcome their past. I hope Sofia is on the road to recovery. That she is possibly going to wed a prince makes no difference to me. It's not what she DID, but what she does going forward.

I agree completely. He who is without sin and whatnot.

 

[Zonk]

Sorry. I have a very conservative personality, but I can't see where posing nude makes Sofia BAD. We all have a past, some overcome their past. I hope Sofia is on the road to recovery. That she is possibly going to wed a prince makes no difference to me. It's not what she DID, but what she does going forward.

From my perspective its not that she has posed nude. I could care less about that although if she has done these photos one wonders what has not been published.

My issue/concern/thing with Sofia is it she appears to be one of those who seeks fame (i.e. posing nude with a snake, appearing on a realty show, posting on twitter about dating a prince). Its like she wants to be famous and part of me wonders if dating CP is just a stepping stone to fame.

I have been a member of TRF for quite some time, and there have been a lot of royals (Letizia, Mary, Charlene, Catherine, Mette Marit, etc.) that some people have questioned their motives. I have never done so one the basis that I don't know them personally and what I do know of them (based on press reports some true and some not so true) I haven't read anything that would make me question someone's (especially someone I don't know) motives. But for me personally, its not the nudity...its the nudity, the twitter, the being on a reality show (I mean people who go on a reality want to be famous or discovered if they have a particular talent). Really the reality show did it for me.

As I have stated in the past, Sofia could be a really nice person and she could love CP deeply and vice versa. I hope that is the case.

 

[Rascal]

Missing the mark

This thread continues to be derailed by the nude pictures issue. People who don't approve of Sofia or don't believe she is appropriate princess material reference this all too often. Most of the ones who disagree respond by criticising those with whom they disagree - characterising them as old-fashioned or judgemental (which in itself is not only judgmental and in violation of the rules of this forum but also avoids dealing with the situation).

The issue is not whether or not nude pictures of Sofia exist. Nude pictures of Prince Charles and Prince Andrew of Great Britain as well as Prince Frederik of Denmark all exist. Photographs of Prince Frederik and Prince William of Wales urinating in public exist with their genitalia completely exposed. The difference is not the nudity - but rather the choice and decision-making. Sofia's choices in her past have been to promote herself through whatever means possible. Those choices resulted in several nude pictorials which range from completely nude with all areas exposed to suggestive posing with arms or snakes covering her genital areas. And she received payment for her services as a model. Her choices resulted in participation in at least two activities (the Miss Slitz pageant and the reality program "Paridise Hotel") which thus far seem to generally be regarded as tacky at best. Her choices resulted in publicly bragging about making out with a very famous porn actress. Her choices resulted in using a very public forum to boast about dating Carl-Philip, something that most agree is contrary to the usual protocol when one is friends with a royal, let alone dating one.

Carl-Philip is one who has not only lived in this protocol but he has also operated within its limits throughout his previous relationship(s), and has been part of this family in which his sisters have done the same. If he made a responsible choice, he would never have considered dating Sofia in the first place.

Sofia, on the other hand, has made many irresponsible choices in her past. Choosing to make responsible ones AFTER becoming involved with Carl-Philip (and some of those have been questionable/tainted choices as well) may be admirable. But the first responsible choice she should have made was to recognize the criticism she would bring on CP, his family, and the monarchy itself...and to then eliminate herself from the situation - or at the very least spend some time (more than a year IMO) developing this new, responsible life and then pursue a relationship with CP.

It doesn't sound very romantic, but it is reality. To recognize and acknowledge such significant choices in a person's past does not make them a bad person, nor does it make the critic mean-spirited or judgmental.

As more than one poster has pointed out - there are many politicians in the world. Some of them look for and pursue relationships with others who fit within the mold/framework/general expectation that the majority of people have for a political or public spouse. Some get it right; others get it wrong. But I don't remember any one who enters public life pursuing a relationship with a person who has made the same choices Sofia has. In addition, some political figures (as opposed to entertainers or artists - who are not usually heads or state or authorities in governing a country) make irresponsible choices. For some it results in the destruction of a family or a political career. For others, it makes them the punch line for a joke. And very few are able to bounce back. Sofia and/or CP may or may not now be experiencing those consequences, but they are the results of their own actions and choices. People who do not recognize that IMO choose not to recognize that. Good manners, good behavior, and good decision-making is not something limited to today, 10 years ago, 50 years ago, 100 years ago or longer. Questioning or pointing out behavior that reflects poorly on an individual is not only acceptable in 2011 but from the looks of things the world could use more of such observations.

It is not the majority or society's responsbility to make or accept excuses for a person's poor choices. Nor is it the majority of society's responsibility to overlook behavior in a person's past just because they may be making different choices now.

For all the Sofia-supporters who quote scripture...you're right. NONE of us is without sin. But ALL of us judge. Your posts are a perfect example. It is also not un-Christian to withhold trust/question the motives of another person who makes undignified remarks/choices/decisions.

No one is stoning Sofia or suggesting that it should be done. But the critics are merely saying she is not an appropriate choice. So instead of judging those who criticise her and accusing them of a particular attitude, perhaps you could answer this question:

What is it about Sofia that makes her an appropriate choice for a girlfriend or future wife? What is it about her that makes her an appropriate choice for a future princess if that is where this all leads? Answering that would not only avoid criticising fellow poster but would also actually address their comments and the issue at hand more directly.

 

[AristoCat]

Look, if you want to look at this in regards to CP the man, not the prince, a lot of normal men wouldn't get seriously involved with her as a result of these choices and since CP is a prince, he should be more than a little choosy. A lot of normal men see her behavior as a red flag and something to be concerned about. A lot of men would not get married. Why should a prince?

 

[NGalitzine]

Well we dont actually know that they are heading towards a wedding, merely that they are currently in a relationship.
People got all worked up about a certain young lady who was involved in the drug culture (for me a more serious issue than nudity or reality tv) and had a child out of wedlock and later married a crown prince and seems to be quite popular these days.
On the political side there is a Republican Senator from Massachussetts who was a centrefold in Cosmopolitan magazine but the voters of his state seem to have forgiven that and looked at his post model record and decided he was worthy to be elected to the US Senate.
Some people it seems are able to look beyond ones past.

 

[Rascal]

People got all worked up about a certain young lady who was involved in the drug culture (for me a more serious issue than nudity or reality tv) and had a child out of wedlock and later married a crown prince and seems to be quite popular these days.

First, we are not talking about other princesses and their lives...this is about Sofia. Still waiting for answers to my questions above. Instead of comparing Sofia to others to distract from her shortcomings or attacking those who criticise her, defend her by providing examples of why she is appropriate as a potential princess. BTW, many pages back I addressed the issues with Mette-Marit vs. those with Sofia.

On the political side there is a Republican Senator from Massachussetts who was a centrefold in Cosmopolitan magazine but the voters of his state seem to have forgiven that and looked at his post model record and decided he was worthy to be elected to the US Senate.
Some people it seems are able to look beyond ones past.

Again pointing out other people's poor choices is not a defense of Sofia...it only shows other people who made poor choices. In addition, that senator was not 15 years old when he posed, his photos did not include full view of his gentalia, and because at least 51% of the voters elected him doesn't mean they agreed with that choice. It could have something to do with his opponents. Several years ago in Louisiana, a former governor who had many indictments and federal investigations was re-elected. He had previously cheated on his wife, bragged about it and was involved in many criminal activites. Many people in the state, however, voted him into office...not because they supported him, but because the other choice was a grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. The majority of citizens of Italy finally succeeded in getting Berlusconi to resign after protests complaining about his sexual shenanigans. And although he continues to do work for other people, Bill Clinton will be most remembered for the Monica Lewinsky scandal and his impeachment in the lower house.

And again I ask...what has Sofia done or what qualities does she possess that make her even an acceptable candidate for future princess?

 

[NGalitzine]

I was merely pointing out that a lot of people seem to be able to get past an individuals prior actions, give them the benefit of a doubt, wish them well, and not keep hammering them for something that happened in their past. If she were to become his wife it would be fair to judge her on her actions as wife/princess from that time forward.

 

[LadyFinn]

Besides Sofia´s nude photos, I find the way she and her mentor are seeking publicity for Sofia now when Sofia is CP´s girlfriend extremely disturbing and unsuitable. I find it also very sad how the court and especially Ternert is babbling about her and pointing out her status as CP´s girlfriend.
Even before she was dating CP, it was easy to see of her actions and photos taken of her, that she loves fame and wants to be at publicity by any means. The royal reporter Johan T Lindwall said last week, that he or anyone doesn´t know for sure, which came first: Sofia starting at Project Playground or Sofia meeting Carl Philip for the first time. Charity work for children is close to queen Silvia´s heart, how convenient for Sofia.
If comparing Sofia´s position to any other person being a girl/boyfriend of a royal (Emma, Daniel, Jonas, Maxima, Letizia, Mathilde, Mary...) she sure has got the special treatment by the swedish court and by the press, who is praising her of her charity work, and Svensk Damtidning is already calling her "our next princess" and "Sofia is more princesslike than ever". I don´t remember that kind of remarks of Emma, Daniel and Jonas just after a years dating.

 

[blauerengel]

I don´t care about Sofia´s nude pictures,if no woman wanted to pose nude half of our museums would be empty and there wouldn´t be any Peter Paul Rubens or Egon Schiele paintings...no one should be ashamed of their body,but so far Sofia´s behaviour doesn´t show much of sincerity and dignity.
I guess this discussion won´t come to an end but I believe that some people have class (which they also keep when taking off their clothes) and some don´t.You can´t buy it or get it by doing some charity work but it´s something deeply rooted within your personality.
Mette-Marit,Daniel,Mary,Catherine and Letizia have this kind of quality but I just can´t see it in Sofia.While she is very pretty and might be a nice,likeable girl to be with I don´t think she´s suitable to be a representative of the royal family.
There are also some royals who have behaved not-so-good in the past (Prince Charles cheating on Diana,Prince Albert having 2 children out of wedlock,Carl Gustav and his affairs etc.) but they have all tried very hard to make up for it and do their royal duties as good as possible.
Making mistakes is normal,everyone sometimes does or says thing which we later regret but not trying to do better afterwards (or pretending that nothing has happened)is not the right way to deal with it.

 

[KitKat2006]

First, we are not talking about other princesses and their lives...this is about Sofia.

This may be about Sofia, but I don't get why we're never allowed to bring in other people as comparsions here. As long as the main topic is on the person the thread is about it should be allowed to mention others every now and then to point certain things out. Instead every time we do it we get a virtuell slap on the fingers and/or an official warning.

And like it or not, Mette-Marit, Letizia. Maxima and even Mary are perfect examples for commoners who were ones titled "unsiutable" of being a princess (for certian reasons) and now they're doing a great job. So why do most people think Sofia isn't able to do the same those women did? Just because of some nude pictures? Or attending a reality show? Does this really, honestly show one isn't capable of doing a good job as a princess? Does this really rule one out completely? I don't think so. In my opinion everything she has done since she dates CP she's more then capable of doing the job as a swedish princess in the second row behind Madeleine and Victoria.

She hasn't done anything wrong in that time, so why not look forward for once and really give her a chance now? Because it seems that she has outgrown the wild, growing-up years. And her past has one point that speaks for her in comparsion to a few of the above mentioned women: Sofia already knows how it is to live a public life. Granted, it wasn't that public than a life at CPs side is and would be if she even marries him. But she is forewarned and doesn't get shocked to much like Mette-Marit, Mary or poor shy Diana were when they walked into the picture. And her liking the spotlight has even another point for her. She can steal a bit of the public attention and camera attention from CP who we all now doesn't like to be in the spotlight very much. Looking at things like that they balance each other out perfectly and she's a great match for him. Has anyone ever thought of that?

What is it about Sofia that makes her an appropriate choice for a girlfriend or future wife? What is it about her that makes her an appropriate choice for a future princess if that is where this all leads? Answering that would not only avoid criticising fellow poster but would also actually address their comments and the issue at hand more directly.

To your second question: She could be completely wrong but she could also be completely right for this job. But if she doesn't get the chance to proof it she can't show that she has what makes her a good princess, if she really has it.

To your first question: What makes her an appropriate choice as a girlfriend or future wife is simply the fact that her boyfriend / hypotetically future husband seems to love her. It's nothing more needed for getting this special "job". Plain and easy. It's as simple and logic as that.

 

[madrid]

Does anyone know Barbro Ehnbom's official website? She is Sofia's mentor.

 

[blauerengel]

I found this BBB - Barbro's Best & Brightest but the link to her own homepage doesn´t seem to work...
http://www2.hhs.se/femaleeconomist/barbro.htm->short text about Barbro Ehnbom
Here´s Barbro Ehnbom´s CV,it is quite impressive: http://www.salss.com/curriculum-vitae_barbro.htm

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I completely agree with Lady Finn's earlier post.

I am sure they will get away with marriage but in the long run such alliances will only further devalue the Swedish monarchy, no matter if CP will become Mr Bernadotte or not. Scandals, lazy siblings and I dont see Victoria as a great saviour, she will have to handle being a monarch, mother and wife, with the support of a loving but possibly very ill husband at some time in the future.

 

[Daisiesforever]

There are also some royals who have behaved not-so-good in the past (Prince Charles cheating on Diana,Prince Albert having 2 children out of wedlock,Carl Gustav and his affairs etc.) but they have all tried very hard to make up for it and do their royal duties as good as possible.

I have to agree here. If Charles could marry Camilla, who incidently behaved in a MUCH worse manner whilst she was his mistress using the excuse of LOVE, I see no reason why Prince Carl Philip should not be permitted to marry Sophia. Other royal houses have had numerous scandals which were conveniently swept under the carpet now there is suddenly a big fuss about Sophia who actually has not done anything to harm anyone. If Carl Philip LOVES Sophia, at least give their relationship a chance. Sophia may just surprise everyone and be the pillar that Carl Philip needs.

 

[Lumutqueen]

There are also some royals who have behaved not-so-good in the past (Prince Charles cheating on Diana,Prince Albert having 2 children out of wedlock,Carl Gustav and his affairs etc.) but they have all tried very hard to make up for it and do their royal duties as good as possible.
.

Don't forget Diana cheating on Charles too,

However I think comparing them to Charles and Diana is a bit off, because before the marriage Diana was the perfect candidate to be a wife. Whereas in this situation, Sofia isn't.

I think Sofia has the right to marry Carl-Philip if they love each other, but I don't think that Carl-Philip should retain his Princely title.

 

[ortino]

Don't forget Diana cheating on Charles too,

However I think comparing them to Charles and Diana is a bit off, because before the marriage Diana was the perfect candidate to be a wife. Whereas in this situation, Sofia isn't.

I think Sofia has the right to marry Carl-Philip if they love each other, but I don't think that Carl-Philip should retain his Princely title.

Well said!!Completely agree!

 

[blauerengel]

I didn´t want to compare Charles to Carl Philip or Diana to Sofia (they were both cheating on each other &it was a completely different situation) but show that royals have made some mistakes too,but I guess if you want to look for them you will find them in any (royal) family;-)

Completely agree with Lumutqueen on this:I think Sofia has the right to marry Carl-Philip if they love each other, but I don't think that Carl-Philip should retain his Princely title.

They seem to be quite fond of each other and I´m sure they can be happy together but a princess should be a kind of role model for other girls/women and Sofia might be a nice person but I wouldn´t want young girls to follow her example...

 

[Fürstin Taxis]

I always thought Madeleine is this party girl, who doesn´t do anything. But the last months she got more serious and I really believe she worries about the Royal Family. Her father already damaged the reputation, and CP will ridicule them. And that´s a normal reaction. I would also be not amused about this choice of a girlfriend. It´s not like she did nude photos or reality show because she needed the money for finance her study. She uses CP for fame. And if it´s true that she treats him like dirt, yes, wow, good catch CP!

 

[agami.pearl]

I don't know Sofia personally, maybe she's nice girl but for me young woman who posed naked for fame is not suitable as a princess. Yes, in the past and now we have less or more controversial royals, but I don't remember anyone who has naked picture with snake. If it is a real love I wish them all the best, but I would like to see CP give up her title. Wondering if he would be still attractive for Sofia without privileges of SRF's member?

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I don't know Sofia personally, maybe she's nice girl but for me young woman who posed naked for fame is not suitable as a princess. Yes, in the past and now we have less or more controversial royals, but I don't remember anyone who has naked picture with snake. If it is a real love I wish them all the best, but I would like to see CP give up her title. Wondering if he would be still attractive for Sofia without privileges of SRF's member?

if it was only the picture with the snake, where Sofia is at least wearing panties. most pictures circulating about her are borderline porn.

 

[NGalitzine]

Do the press in Sweden comment on the relationship and much as people on these boards do? Do they take the same negative attitude towards Sofia as many posters here?

 

[HRHHermione]

Do the press in Sweden comment on the relationship and much as people on these boards do? Do they take the same negative attitude towards Sofia as many posters here?

I've been wondering the same thing... looking forward to hearing the answer from someone who knows.

 

[PrincessKaimi]

Cleopatra was a Queen and posed naked inside a rug (the snake came later).

 

[Royal Newbie]

Cleopatra was a Queen and posed naked inside a rug (the snake came later).

I cannot stop laughing! That was way too funny for a private thanks! Thank you for making me laugh!

 

[Soli Deo Gloria]

Do the press in Sweden comment on the relationship and much as people on these boards do? Do they take the same negative attitude towards Sofia as many posters here?

Svensk Damtidning is writing about her as "our next princess"... and the comments on the SvD website are like this:

but some people like her

 

[Esmerelda]

Svensk Damtidning is writing about her as "our next princess"... and the comments on the SvD website are like this:

but some people like her

LOL at your description of the comments! I guess we shall have to wait and see.

 

[Kataryn]

He should look at Prince Johan Friso of the Netherlands as an example. And Mabel was a well-educated young lady, only with not so nice social connections in her past. Still the prince left the Royal House, married more or less privately and left the Netherlands to live with his wife and family in the Uk.

There are so many nice ladies out there with a good education but without a "past" who would make decent princesses and act in support of the RF. As this is no longer possible for Sofia, she should not expect to become a princess by marriage but settle for the name Mrs. Bernadotte and no Royal privileges. Or give up the prince. I'm all for marrying because of love but still the bride must be at least decent. What she did in her private life is hers (think Camilla, who never asked for exposure and did never comment) but once you allowed yourself to become notorious, you should not strive to bring down the first family of the land to your niveau.

 

[Tilia C.]

Cleopatra was a Queen and posed naked inside a rug (the snake came later).

Svensk Damtidning is writing about her as "our next princess"... and the comments on the SvD website are like this:

but some people like her

Svensk Damtidning must really like her. As long as she's with CP, there will be no lack of headlines.