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  #1041  
Old 04-14-2015, 01:23 PM
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It's a blood sport that I've never liked. We've been through this with the DoC before her marriage to William.
No, Dman. I remember the Duchess of Cambridge received a lot of attacks, but not even the Duchess of Cornwall was as degraded as Sofia.

With Sofia Hellqvist, some people (in general, I'm not talking specifically about this forums) managed to reach a new level of nastiness and spitefulness.
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  #1042  
Old 04-14-2015, 01:36 PM
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No, Dman. I remember the Duchess of Cambridge received a lot of attacks, but not even the Duchess of Cornwall was as degraded as Sofia.

With Sofia Hellqvist, some people (in general, I'm not talking specifically about this forums) managed to reach a new level of nastiness and spitefulness.
I don't know about that. Things got pretty interesting towards the DoC before her marriage to Will.

Things will calm down over Sofia (on the internet) once she is fully established in her royal role and people see where her interests are. Although, some will never give her a break, attitudes will shift after a while.
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  #1043  
Old 04-14-2015, 01:38 PM
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Things will calm down over Sofia (on the internet) once she is fully established in her royal role and people see where her interests are. Although, some will never give her a break, attitudes will shift after a while.
I think - and hope - you're right.
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  #1044  
Old 04-14-2015, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Baron Brockdorf View Post
I would like to just say that those who have a negative opinion about Sofia have just as much right to express it as those who have a positive view of her as long as every thing is done in a respectable manner, I think its sad that some posters imply that other posters have ill characters or that it reflects what kind of a person they are or souls etc just because opinions differ
Of course everyone has the right to criticise her. And no one has ever said that they don't. However, one can have a negative opinion of a person without being downright vicious. Sofia has been called so many nasty things throughout this thread – whether directly or indirectly. I don't know about you but I had thought that adults would refrain from such behaviour. Disliking Sofia (or any other royal) is perfectly alright but there's no need to take criticism to the lowest common denominator. Slut-shaming should never be condoned – regardless of how many euphemisms people use in their sharp remarks – and doesn't belong on a respectable forum like TRF.

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Originally Posted by Cris M View Post
With Sofia Hellqvist, some people (in general, I'm not talking specifically about this forums) managed to reach a new level of nastiness and spitefulness.
I completely agree with you. And to me, it seems as though much more of this irrelevant hatred has been tolerated than it would have been for other royals on this forum – that might just be me though.
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  #1045  
Old 04-14-2015, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
I completely agree with you. And to me, it seems as though much more of this irrelevant hatred has been tolerated than it would have been for other royals on this forum – that might just be me though.
I've been thinking the same for a long time. I'm glad I'm not the only one.
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  #1046  
Old 04-14-2015, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
Of course everyone has the right to criticise her. And no one has ever said that they don't. However, one can have a negative opinion of a person without being downright vicious. Sofia has been called so many nasty things throughout this thread – whether directly or indirectly. I don't know about you but I had thought that adults would refrain from such behaviour. Disliking Sofia (or any other royal) is perfectly alright but there's no need to take criticism to the lowest common denominator. Slut-shaming should never be condoned – regardless of how many euphemisms people use in their sharp remarks – and doesn't belong on a respectable forum like TRF.


.
First Id like to say that my previous post was not aimed at anyone, I noticed that the tone of some posts (both directly and indirectly stated) addressed to other posters was also becoming rather nasty.....all I wanted to say was we may disagree on many things discussed on these forums but let's not forget to be nice, or at the least civil, to each other.
  #1047  
Old 04-14-2015, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Cris M View Post
I think - and hope - you're right.
Yeah, things will calm down after a while. Like I said before, we've been down this road already. It was a long road, but there's always light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm looking forward to seeing Sofia establish herself as Prince Carl Philip's wife and a member of the Swedish royal family.
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  #1048  
Old 04-14-2015, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
Of course everyone has the right to criticise her. And no one has ever said that they don't. However, one can have a negative opinion of a person without being downright vicious. Sofia has been called so many nasty things throughout this thread – whether directly or indirectly. I don't know about you but I had thought that adults would refrain from such behaviour. Disliking Sofia (or any other royal) is perfectly alright but there's no need to take criticism to the lowest common denominator. Slut-shaming should never be condoned – regardless of how many euphemisms people use in their sharp remarks – and doesn't belong on a respectable forum like TRF.



I completely agree with you. And to me, it seems as though much more of this irrelevant hatred has been tolerated than it would have been for other royals on this forum – that might just be me though.

It's all well and good to assure us that "everyone has a right to criticize her". Yet every almost time a poster does so here-even in a mild way-their integrity and character are called into question both directly and indirectly. I don't think the opinions of posters who are not thrilled about Sofia are any less "relevant" than the ones who speculate breathlessly about what tiara she will wear on her wedding day.

"Slut shaming"?

I see that phrase so often these days. It strikes me as confusing as it is vulgar. What on earth does it even mean?

Anyone who believes Carl-Philip's fiancée is treated unfairly on TRF is leading a very, very sheltered online existence. Have a look around at some other sites...if you dare.
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  #1049  
Old 04-14-2015, 06:47 PM
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I've never been a Sofia non-fan, I've just kind of watched neutrally. I don't dislike her, I don't think their marriage is the end of the royal world.

I don't and never did have an issue with her, but I do want to point some things out:

I do think some of the actions of CP's sisters, pointed out by Moonmaiden have been rather interesting. Victoria's "no comment" comment, Madeleine leaving negative posts up on Facebook (not sure what these people said). This suggests to me that perhaps the sisters are non-fans. Now this could be for many a reason other than they don't care for their future sister-in-law - I don't know. They could also perhaps just not care for her on a personal level that really has nothing to do with her past. I don't take this as a signal to dislike Sofia - maybe if I met the three of them at a party, I'd like Sofia but not like the other two, who can say?

People are suggesting that Sofia is well-liked and accepted into the royal family, and it's only people on the internet who have an issue. Not necessarily. Once royals make a decision, in the public eye they tend to support it in lock-step. And not everyone within a family may think the same way. Maybe Silvia adores her, CG just doesn't care and Madde can't stand her - or so many other combinations. As with most royal families, we won't hear of it, and we won't see anything but a united front.
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  #1050  
Old 04-14-2015, 06:55 PM
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How are people saying "let's wait and see" and "time will tell" mean and nasty? Time will tell if any new Royal bride, much less one with this baggage, will represent her monarchy well. So we do indeed have to wait and see if she will do a good job.
  #1051  
Old 04-14-2015, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
I've never been a Sofia non-fan, I've just kind of watched neutrally. I don't dislike her, I don't think their marriage is the end of the royal world.

I don't and never did have an issue with her, but I do want to point some things out:

I do think some of the actions of CP's sisters, pointed out by Moonmaiden have been rather interesting. Victoria's "no comment" comment, Madeleine leaving negative posts up on Facebook (not sure what these people said). This suggests to me that perhaps the sisters are non-fans. Now this could be for many a reason other than they don't care for their future sister-in-law - I don't know. They could also perhaps just not care for her on a personal level that really has nothing to do with her past. I don't take this as a signal to dislike Sofia - maybe if I met the three of them at a party, I'd like Sofia but not like the other two, who can say?

People are suggesting that Sofia is well-liked and accepted into the royal family, and it's only people on the internet who have an issue. Not necessarily. Once royals make a decision, in the public eye they tend to support it in lock-step. And not everyone within a family may think the same way. Maybe Silvia adores her, CG just doesn't care and Madde can't stand her - or so many other combinations. As with most royal families, we won't hear of it, and we won't see anything but a united front.

Spoken like the reasonable and very smart attorney that you are.
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  #1052  
Old 04-14-2015, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
It's all well and good to assure us that "everyone has a right to criticize her". Yet every almost time a poster does so here-even in a mild way-their integrity and character are called into question both directly and indirectly. I don't think the opinions of posters who are not thrilled about Sofia are any less "relevant" than the ones who speculate breathlessly about what tiara she will wear on her wedding day.

"Slut shaming"?

I see that phrase so often these days. It strikes me as confusing as it is vulgar. What on earth does it even mean?

Anyone who believes Carl-Philip's fiancée is treated unfairly on TRF is leading a very, very sheltered online existence. Have a look around at some other sites...if you dare.
As I see it, very few are bothered by the fact that she is being criticised – it is the way in which people criticise her that's the real problem. The name-calling, the euphemisms etc. That's what I think is nasty and immature. I suppose the relevance of constant, recycled criticism is in the eyes of the beholder but you certainly have the right to express your dislike of her. One can do that without being coarse

Its definition is pretty clear, actually: slut-shaming is criticising a person, especially a woman or girl, for their real or presumed sexual activity; for behaving in ways that someone thinks are associated with their real or presumed sexual activity; and attempting to make them feel guilty or inferior for certain behaviours, circumstances, or desires that deviate from traditional or orthodox gender expectations" (Google is your friend )

But that's exactly it, isn't it? TRF is a respectable forum. And I believe that is why the site which shan't be named was created – because the people who wanted to say nasty things about royals weren't given the leeway here. And if I may say so, that is one of the many things I love about this site.
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  #1053  
Old 04-14-2015, 08:56 PM
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Archduchess Zelia, what name calling and what euphemisms are you referring to? I went back about six pages before I gave up. And I also saw nothing coarse. The only sly name calling was and is directed at posters who can't share the love for the soon to be Royal bride. I disagree 100% that SH fans are not upset at criticism, period.

Thanks for your interesting explanation for "slut shaming" but my opinion is that it's kind of ridiculous. What's the alternative...slut pride? Elevation?

Virginity and chastity are just as much mocked online and in pop culture as promiscuity. It's not considered the badge of honor that it once was.
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  #1054  
Old 04-14-2015, 10:13 PM
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Royal is just a made up word from times ago. She is just as suitable as anyone. They are no more special nor have anything special flowing through their veins. Just a bunch of people whose forebears had a big sword. She is just as suitable as Queen Sylvia, whose father was a Nazi. Sylvia is lovely and wonderful. And just as suitable as the King who has had some tawdry affairs. No films included. Or Daniel who is a personal trainer, now a prince. She will do just fine. Made better than some.
You easily bring to mind the royal "commoner fiances". Mary and Marie who are educated but, many continue to devalue the Australian University Degree Mary holds in the same way as people are still saying that Marie has none or it was purchased (that one even has its own thread). Mette-Marit, as an unwed mother, has been dragged through the mud and to some degree still is at regular intervals. Maxima, like Silvia, had the sins of her fathers to take the heat. Letizia has had her morals and her lifestyle slammed and Catherine referred to as Waity-Katy or a social climber. Even Daniel doesn't miss out, being described as a "personal trainer" when he was the gym owner and ran a company called Balance Training with three gyms in Stockholm.

So it seems that rather than crediting a 'commoner fiance' with their crowning achievements, there seems a continuing trend to go for the lowest point in their adult lives, even if they have to get creative to do so. Although I would quibble that Sofia, at 16, was an adult.
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  #1055  
Old 04-14-2015, 10:32 PM
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Are we discussing TRF or some other site, MARG? Because few other Forums have the devoted and adoring fanbases that Letizia, Maxima, Mary and the DoC enjoy here. Their threads are easily the most active, consistently.

This is in direct contrast to the interest and commentary on the only two recent aristocrat consorts, Mathilde and Stephanie, which doesn't even approach the other women.

So I disagree with the notion that the commoners are somehow treated more harshly...the facts simply don't support it.


In fact there is one online site where Letizia is practically worshipped, and every facet of her life is considered golden and beyond reproach...at least in part because of her lower middle class origins.
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  #1056  
Old 04-14-2015, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post

This is in direct contrast to the interest and commentary on the only two recent aristocrat consorts, Mathilde and Stephanie, which doesn't even approach the other women.
And why is that I wonder? Is it because of Mathilde's and Stephanie's noble births that they are somehow protected from some of the vicious criticisms that are leveled at the commoner-born royals? It is almost as if Mathilde and Stephanie are seen as more deserving of their royal status while the commoner-born royals are social climbers.
Of course the DoC, CP Mary, Queen Letizia et all are followed most closely...because they have loyal fans and rabid haters in equal measure!!All because they were commoners who dared to become royals!!!
  #1057  
Old 04-14-2015, 11:51 PM
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How are people saying "let's wait and see" and "time will tell" mean and nasty? Time will tell if any new Royal bride, much less one with this baggage, will represent her monarchy well. So we do indeed have to wait and see if she will do a good job.

That isn't, you're right about that and I have also said that too. However, there are certain people around here though who obviously have an agenda when it comes to Sofia and have gone into each thread about her spewing their venom and for what!?! It's just so sad and sickening to see.

If this was a member of your Family, you'd be screaming they got a fair chance to prove they are an asset as HRH Princess of Sweden (I'm assuming). Sofia deserves that much at least and I'm willing to give it to her.


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  #1058  
Old 04-15-2015, 01:57 AM
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Anyone who believes Carl-Philip's fiancée is treated unfairly on TRF is leading a very, very sheltered online existence. Have a look around at some other sites...if you dare.
So true... If you have ever read the things that have been (and still are) written about CP Mary at some boards and blogs for the past 12+ years, the things that have been said in this thread are pretty mild....
  #1059  
Old 04-15-2015, 02:19 AM
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And why is that I wonder? Is it because of Mathilde's and Stephanie's noble births that they are somehow protected from some of the vicious criticisms that are leveled at the commoner-born royals? It is almost as if Mathilde and Stephanie are seen as more deserving of their royal status while the commoner-born royals are social climbers.
Of course the DoC, CP Mary, Queen Letizia et all are followed most closely...because they have loyal fans and rabid haters in equal measure!!All because they were commoners who dared to become royals!!!
It could also be because Mathilde and Stephanie are simply not known to have had the sort of baggage that lends itself to sordid gossip and speculation. In other words they led what many consider boring, traditional and respectable pre-marital lives. No drugs, no divorces, no adulterous affairs,no snakes.They went to University, lived under the radar and got married. If any real dirt existed you better believe the tabloids-in particular the viciously anti-monarchist German rags, would pick up the ball and run with it. They have no motivation to protect the reputations of aristocrats. Why should they?


It's not Mathilde's fault, nor is it Stephanie's, that they grew up in castles. They didn't choose their parents, any more than Sofia or Mette-Marit did. What they DID choose to do was to make smart decisions about the company they kept and the way they conducted their private lives.

To complain that they were left alone because they are not commoners is as ridiculous as it is false. Most people don't even care about that anymore. The fact that a Royal fiancée is an aristocrat is nowadays even considered a detriment by some...look how some people complained (and still do) that Guillaume of Luxembourg did not marry a working class girl-next-door type?

In Stephanie's case she is criticized for being unglamorous and a poor dresser. But if I was the head of a Royal Press Office with the choice of dealing with negative publicity generated by a potential fiancée who was badly dressed versus one who has been photographed undressed and cavorting around a stripper pole, guess which one I'd welcome?
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  #1060  
Old 04-15-2015, 02:28 AM
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I agree that the discussions here on TRF are always (yes always) very civil compared to some other message boards; i remember reading once on another forum that someone actually wished Sofia or P.C-P to get ill (or worse) so the wedding wouldn't happen, and this was applauded by other posters
That to me is crossing the line of "expressing ones opinion" but no matter how heated the discussions have gotten here, i don't think anyone ever uttered something like that

(i stopped going to the other MB's though, so maybe things have changed now)
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