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  #741  
Old 11-23-2014, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
That would be a very good idea.
It would give the Swedes and the rest of us a chance to get to know who Sofia is what she stands for.
Perhaps such an in-depth portrait will be aired early next year.

As for CP&S not having to be accountable to the taxpayers when they get their money indirectly, that is not an argument I agree with.
They are living representatives of Sweden as a consequence of their position and titles.
If they do not wish to be held accountable, they will have to relinguish their status as royals and become commoners.
To have a couple of incative "semi-royals" in country in perfect working order and in the prime of their lives would be a folly.
It would be a kind of "ask not what you can do for Sweden, ask instead what you can do for yourself" situation.
.

The Swedish royal family is relatively small and was made de facto smaller by Madeleine's decision to marry Chris and live in the United States, which, as I wrote before, is a far more serious matter than CP's relationship with Sofia as it may have an impact on Madeleine's children's succession rights. In any case, with such a small family and the King and Queen getting older, they will have to rely on CP and Sofia to take up royal engagements.
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  #742  
Old 11-23-2014, 12:29 PM
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Discussion about Sofia Hellqvist's Past & Future Role in the Royal Family

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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The Swedish royal family is relatively small and was made de facto smaller by Madeleine's decision to marry Chris and live in the United States, which, as I wrote before, is a far more serious matter than CP's relationship with Sofia as it may have an impact on Madeleine's children's succession rights. In any case, with such a small family and the King and Queen getting older, they will have to rely on CP and Sofia to take up royal engagements.

Then again the SRF has been very small for the last 40 years and managed quite well with being so. I'm sure that CP and his soon to be wife will do some royal engagements and attend official functions such as state banquets and the Opening of parliament but unless something happens with his parents in the near future I mostly see SH continuing and expanding her charity work and CP working with his design company, expanding his agricultural interests so in time he'll be able to take over Stenhammar as is expected and so on.


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  #743  
Old 11-23-2014, 12:37 PM
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Then again the SRF has been very small for the last 40 years and managed quite well with being so. I'm sure that CP and his soon to be wife will do some royal engagements and attend official functions such as state banquets and the Opening of parliament but unless something happens with his parents in the near future I mostly see SH continuing and expanding her charity work and CP working with his design company, expanding his agricultural interests so in time he'll be able to take over Stenhammar as is expected and so on.


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Has the number of royal engagements increased over the past 40 years or not ? Maybe in the past the SRF simply took a lighter workload.
  #744  
Old 11-23-2014, 12:41 PM
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Has the number of royal engagements increased over the past 40 years or not ? Maybe in the past the SRF simply took a lighter workload.
I don't know about their workload, but in 1976-1995 until Victoria became 18 years old, there were just the king and queen, and sometimes prince Bertil and princess Lilian doing royal duties.
Even if we don't count Carl Philip and Madeleine, they have now the king, queen, Victoria and Daniel. Victoria and Daniel are working much more than Bertil and Lilian. And since the Bernadottes seem to live very long, the king could very well be a king at least for 10 years, maybe even more. He could give some of his duties to Victoria when he gets older. Carl Philip and Madeleine and their spouses could attend at the Nobels, National Day, opening of the Parliament and important state events like that.
  #745  
Old 11-23-2014, 12:50 PM
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I don't know about their workload, but in 1976-1995 until Victoria became 18 years old, there were just the king and queen, and sometimes prince Bertil and princess Lilian doing royal duties.
Even if we don't count Carl Philip and Madeleine, they have now the king, queen, Victoria and Daniel. Victoria and Daniel are working much more than Bertil and Lilian. And since the Bernadottes seem to live very long, the king could very well be a king at least for 10 years, maybe even more. He could give some of his duties to Victoria when he gets older. Carl Philip and Madeleine and their spouses could attend at the Nobels, National Day, opening of the Parliament and important state events like that.
don't forget about Princess Christina! And maybe Desiree.
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  #746  
Old 11-23-2014, 01:01 PM
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It is unfortunately not just a question of how long the King or for that matter the Queen lives.
It's their health that is the key.
The King can develope Alzheimer or something similar and be out of action well before time.

To have only two royal couples working, when there is a third royal couple living in Sweden and available is IMO bad PR and a waste of resources.

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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
I don't know about their workload, but in 1976-1995 until Victoria became 18 years old, there were just the king and queen, and sometimes prince Bertil and princess Lilian doing royal duties.
Even if we don't count Carl Philip and Madeleine, they have now the king, queen, Victoria and Daniel. Victoria and Daniel are working much more than Bertil and Lilian. And since the Bernadottes seem to live very long, the king could very well be a king at least for 10 years, maybe even more. He could give some of his duties to Victoria when he gets older. Carl Philip and Madeleine and their spouses could attend at the Nobels, National Day, opening of the Parliament and important state events like that.
  #747  
Old 11-23-2014, 05:16 PM
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don't forget about Princess Christina! And maybe Desiree.
Princess Christina, princess Désirée and princess Margaretha haven't been members of the official royal family/royal court after they got married. So their work events aren't counted on royal events. Princess Christina is the one of the Haga princesses who has worked the most, mostly as patron or honorary chairman of many organizations. Prince Bertil and princess Lilian were members of the official royal family and had their own household.
  #748  
Old 11-23-2014, 05:27 PM
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Princess Christina, princess Désirée and princess Margaretha haven't been members of the official royal family/royal court after they got married. So their work events aren't counted on royal events. Princess Christina is the one of the Haga princesses who has worked the most, mostly as patron or honorary chairman of many organizations. Prince Bertil and princess Lilian were members of the official royal family and had their own household.
The question was to the number of royal engagements. Christina has undertaken royal engagements, even if she is not considered apart of the royal court.
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  #749  
Old 11-23-2014, 07:08 PM
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TBH I think it best for CP and Sofia to stay in the background, like Madeleine and her husband. Just jhave a few public duties but focus on their own carreers -like PP. They will be/are secundary royals. And secundary royals can do little to improve the image of a monarchy, but they can cause a lot of harm.
Totally agree with you here, Marengo, which is why I am a little puzzled by all the buzz and expectation around 'royal work' for this couple. But who knows, maybe the SRF has the intention of doing something different. Time will tell.

Quote:
In all monarchies there is a trend to focus on the main players more and more. This will reduce the risk and also limit the impression that the entire lot is living on tax payers money. It happened in Norway, Netherlands, Spain, Luxembourg; it will happen in Belgium in the future as it is clear that the younger children of Filip and Mathilde need to find their own way in life and it is even happening in the BRF where esp. Clarence House seems the focus to be on the core members mainly.

I do not think it is fair to the BRF to compare CP's background to that of theirs. Both the DoY and Prince Harry went on active duty and have much more public engagements than CP. I suppose there is a lot more to do in a country like Britain than in the smaller monarchies of course.
Well said.

Quote:
As for Sofia: I can not recall a more unsuitable candidate in decades. A lady whose goal in life -until she met CP- seemed to have been pursue fame. She first tried this by selling out her body and by becoming a reality tv starlet. And now she succeeded by this marriage to CP. Her resume seems to be window dressing in the extreme, drummed up by the Swedish boulevard press, which I find rather annoying as I wonder if they think that we are all fools. Of course she may surprise us later, but for now I think that there are enough reasons to have doubts.
Yep, yep and yep. Sadly.

I think she's really trying, though, in her own way. She has the ability to dress like an A-List Red Carpet actress, but for every royal event she has 'dressed down' (imo). She seems to be trying to present as less sophisticated than she is, or less 'threatening', I think. Again, JMO. I have no judgement of what she is doing. She wants to fit in; she wants to please her in-laws and maybe placate the critics who she probably has a sixth sense about. Makes sense.

Quote:
I find it a rather depressing thought that women are supposed to be responsible for the 'growing up' of their husbands btw. These gender roles seem rather dated to me.
The way I have always seen it is sometimes a man getting connected to a certain woman changes him, for the better. Love will do that, don't you think? I've seen it happen in my own family. A close relative married a woman who has been the making of him, not to mention when the children came along: another man, nothing like his wild-oats days.
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  #750  
Old 11-24-2014, 12:51 AM
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As for Sofia: I can not recall a more unsuitable candidate in decades. A lady whose goal in life -until she met CP- seemed to have been pursue fame. She first tried this by selling out her body and by becoming a reality tv starlet. And now she succeeded by this marriage to CP. Her resume seems to be window dressing in the extreme, drummed up by the Swedish boulevard press, which I find rather annoying as I wonder if they think that we are all fools. Of course she may surprise us later, but for now I think that there are enough reasons to have doubts.

I find it a rather depressing thought that women are supposed to be responsible for the 'growing up' of their husbands btw. These gender roles seem rather dated to me.
An interesting point on Sofia -an angle I had not thought of. Of course anyone who lives their life in extremes raises the eyebrows when they go from one extreme to the other. Maybe she'll be like an Angelina Jolie, channeling all that whatever you call it - energy, drive, etc, into something good. Maybe not. Time will tell. She'll certainly be interesting to observe.
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  #751  
Old 11-24-2014, 01:51 AM
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The thing that makes me want to defend Sofia against these accusations is the timeline in play.

Sofia started modeling at age 16, in 2000/2001. She won Miss Slitz in 2004 and in 2005 she did Paradise Hotel and made out with Jenna Jameson. This is all definitely the behaviour of a person who wants fame and attention... but she was between the ages of 16 and 21. From the end of 2005 to 2010, when her relationship with CP was revealed, she seems to have lived a much quieter life.

Sure, her relationship with CP could have been based on a desire to be a famous princess, but I can't help but think that if Sofia wanted fame she wouldn't have stopped modeling in 2005. This decision to me makes it seem like she has left that part of her past behind her - she's not a kid anymore and doesn't seem to be embracing that lifestyle, nor does she seem to have done so for some time now. I do think she's doing her best, to quote you, to channel "all that whatever you call it - energy, drive, etc, into something good" - namely Project Playground, which she's worked with for about as long as she was a model/reality tv star.
  #752  
Old 11-24-2014, 02:30 AM
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The thing that makes me want to defend Sofia against these accusations is the timeline in play.
It's not a matter of defense, though. IMO. It is what it is.

She met CP in the midst of her career, as you have detailed though glossed over just a bit and made her choices from there. It seems obvious what took place. No blame. I just doubt there was a change. That's okay. It is what it is.

She's trying to do it 'right' and fit in. I wish her well and hope she is happy. She definitely has the love of her Prince. That should make all the difference.
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  #753  
Old 11-24-2014, 02:38 AM
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It's not a matter of defense, though. IMO. It is what it is.



She met CP in the midst of her career, as you have detailed though glossed over just a bit and made her choices from there. It seems obvious what took place. No blame. I just doubt there was a change. That's okay. It is what it is.



She's trying to do it 'right' and fit in. I wish her well and hope she is happy. She definitely has the love of her Prince. That should make all the difference.

But she didn't meet CP in the midst of her career, at least not from what I can tell. She seems to have stopped modelling and doing reality TV in 2005 - or at least I can't find anything that she did in that line of work after then. She didn't meet CP until 2009.

It didn't go she met him, they started dating, then she stopped modelling. It went she stopped modelling then 4 years later she met him. Unless you have something to show that she was still modelling between 2005 and 2009.
  #754  
Old 11-24-2014, 03:16 AM
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But she didn't meet CP in the midst of her career, at least not from what I can tell. She seems to have stopped modelling and doing reality TV in 2005 - or at least I can't find anything that she did in that line of work after then. She didn't meet CP until 2009.

It didn't go she met him, they started dating, then she stopped modelling. It went she stopped modelling then 4 years later she met him. Unless you have something to show that she was still modelling between 2005 and 2009.
Now I am getting confused here, so:
When did she met PC in 2009?
When did she stop modeling, year?
What was she doing in the way of a paying job/career from the time she stopped modeling till she met PC?
What has she been doing for work or career since meeting PC beside the PP once in a while?

It might be a good idea if SH did what MM did in Norway, come clean and be up front with your life if you want to marry into the royal family. MM had guts, self-confidence and strength to do that and that shows a lot about her character and the type of person she is which is why she is now a very respected member of the royal family in Norway and she works hard at the job. Nothing wrong with that at all. From my view there is no talk coming from anyone in the court and royal family about what she has done, window washing does not fool intelligent people, it can be seen as a snow job and people are not fools or stupid. There is a saying: You can fool some of the people but you can't fool all the people all the time, that is how I view her and PC.
  #755  
Old 11-24-2014, 03:30 AM
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The question was to the number of royal engagements. Christina has undertaken royal engagements, even if she is not considered apart of the royal court.
I didn't count Christina's events to royal engagements, when I spoke about the workload of the royal family. Because she isn't a member of the royal court, her events aren't counted even though she would work every day. Her events aren't at the royal calendar and they aren't told at the articles at the royal website.

As for Sofia in New York on 2005-2009, in some point she posed for the nude photos for photographer Antoine Verglas.
From Expressen:
Then she went to New York where she worked at a yoga center and as a waitress. But the model dreams were still there.
Suddenly a huge chance came up - she was offered to be photographed by the Frenchman Antoine Verglas. A celebrity photographer who had his breakthrough with his intimate photo series on the now world famous models like Claudia Schiffer and Cindy Crawford.
The scantily clad pictures added after the shoot out to the sales of photo agency Stella Pictures.
But in 2010, when the relationship with Prince Carl Philip was confirmed by the court, the pictures were taken back.
The French photographer explained that he had not been in the habit of selling those pictures to the type of magazines that were interested.
But at the same time, he chose to speculate on the matter:
- Maybe she did not want the images to be published ... they'd found on the internet. It was sexy and swank images. Now that she's with a prince she doesn't want that the images will be there, he told to Extra in 2012.
Sofia Hellqvists hinder på vägen mot kärleken Extra Expressen

And as for Sofia's quiet life, we all have different perceptions what a quiet life is. According to Sofia's and Camilla's blog from New York they partied all the time. They attended at the parties of famous partyorganizers, parties where they could meet influential people from movies, modelling and other branches. Expressen has some photos of Sofia partying in New York.
Här är de okända festbilderna på prinsens Sofia Extra Expressen
  #756  
Old 11-24-2014, 05:28 AM
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I didn't count Christina's events to royal engagements, when I spoke about the workload of the royal family. Because she isn't a member of the royal court, her events aren't counted even though she would work every day. Her events aren't at the royal calendar and they aren't told at the articles at the royal website.
True, her events aren't counted and listed in the Royal calendar. But it's also true that she in practice has done hundreds of Royal engagements over the year. Between 1972 and 1976 she was in fact the first royal lady of Sweden, since her mother had passed away and her brother wasn't married. I have no problem seeing princess Madeleine in a role similar to Christinas in the future.

Sofia and Carl Philip... hard to tell what happens with them. If/when Victoria and Daniel have another child, and/or the king/queen have to cut down on their workload due to health reasons, I think that Sofia and Carl Philip are needed as active members of the royal family. At least for a limited period of time.
  #757  
Old 11-24-2014, 07:38 AM
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The thing that makes me want to defend Sofia against these accusations is the timeline in play.

Sofia started modeling at age 16, in 2000/2001. She won Miss Slitz in 2004 and in 2005 she did Paradise Hotel and made out with Jenna Jameson. This is all definitely the behaviour of a person who wants fame and attention... but she was between the ages of 16 and 21. From the end of 2005 to 2010, when her relationship with CP was revealed, she seems to have lived a much quieter life.

Sure, her relationship with CP could have been based on a desire to be a famous princess, but I can't help but think that if Sofia wanted fame she wouldn't have stopped modeling in 2005. This decision to me makes it seem like she has left that part of her past behind her - she's not a kid anymore and doesn't seem to be embracing that lifestyle, nor does she seem to have done so for some time now. I do think she's doing her best, to quote you, to channel "all that whatever you call it - energy, drive, etc, into something good" - namely Project Playground, which she's worked with for about as long as she was a model/reality tv star.
Yes, this is a different story. It looked like she swung like a pendulum, but this does not appear to be the case from your post. Although people who are more extreme, again Jolie is a good example, are often the movers and shakers in our world.
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  #758  
Old 11-24-2014, 11:34 AM
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Now I am getting confused here, so:
When did she met PC in 2009?
When did she stop modeling, year?
What was she doing in the way of a paying job/career from the time she stopped modeling till she met PC?
What has she been doing for work or career since meeting PC beside the PP once in a while?

It might be a good idea if SH did what MM did in Norway, come clean and be up front with your life if you want to marry into the royal family. MM had guts, self-confidence and strength to do that and that shows a lot about her character and the type of person she is which is why she is now a very respected member of the royal family in Norway and she works hard at the job. Nothing wrong with that at all. From my view there is no talk coming from anyone in the court and royal family about what she has done, window washing does not fool intelligent people, it can be seen as a snow job and people are not fools or stupid. There is a saying: You can fool some of the people but you can't fool all the people all the time, that is how I view her and PC.
As per her Wikipedia page (which granted, is very lacking), Sofia started modeling at age 16 (which would have been 2000/2001), she did Miss Slitz in 2004, and her season of Paradise Hotel aired in 2005. This is also the year that she made out with Jenna Jameson while in Las Vegas. At the end of 2005 Sofia turned 21. So all of this behaviour is the actions of someone who couldn't even legally drink in the US.

In 2005 she moved to New York, studied to be a yoga teacher, and opened her own yoga centre. Neither Wikipedia nor the official CV released by the Palace say how long she did this for, why she stopped, or how successful it was. Nor do either have any information on when she moved back to Sweden.

In 2009, according to the official CV, she worked in Ghana from September to October 2009, visiting orphanages and helping to build a woman's centre. The next year she founded Project Playground. I get that you think she only works with PP once in awhile, but according to Sofia, the Palace, and PP this is an actual job where she plays an actual important role. This could be a spin, sure, but since PP seems to be a successful organization it's one that I'm willing to buy. My understanding of it is that Sofia is the head of the operations in Sweden - which to me would mean that she's overseeing the operations to get funding for the operations in South Africa. I could be wrong, but that's how I understand it. The assumption that the whole thing is a front for her is one that I personally don't buy into not because I'm a blind supporter but because Sofia has been linked to PP since its start, which was at a time when her relationship with CP was still new and not a guarantee - it would have been a huge risk for the charity to invest in a "famous" figurehead at that stage in the game, especially since it was well before Sofia's relationship with CP was a sure thing - it would be like if Cressida Bonas got involved in a new organization just on the grounds that she'd been linked with Harry.

According to a Daily Mail article written for the engagement announcement, Carl Philip and Sofia met in a club in 2009. Their relationship became public the next year, in 2010, and they moved in together in 2011. The reason why people assume that Sofia put her past behind her and "changed her image" when she met CP is because that's the spin that the tabloids put on it - they all act like that 4-5 year gap didn't happen.
  #759  
Old 11-24-2014, 12:01 PM
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I've not really been following this all that much but every now and then poke my nose in the door and read the latest.

From what I've been reading, it seems like Sofia in her late teen and early adulthood did what a lot of people do. Explore being an adult and grabbing whatever life has to offer. Wild and crazy comes up a lot with folks I've discussed younger years with. There are certainly a lot of things that I would be hard pressed to admit to doing myself. Its all part of exploring the world at large.

Somewhere along the line, she finds a cause in life. People don't normally volunteer their time in places like Ghana for the good times to be had. This is probably the diving board to her wishing to set up Project Playground and do something serious with her life. Sometimes a person just walks into a place and it hits them full force that this is something they want to do. Case in point would be Harry and Sentebale. Like Harry, perhaps Sofia isn't seen digging the trenches and working long hours but its something they're both serious about and they're both in the position to actually do quite a bit and make a difference.

What has impressed me is that Carl and Sofia's relationship wasn't even made public for a year after they first got together. It was two years before they took the plunge and moved in together. This isn't a relationship that was taken lightly by either one of them and I imagine that they have had quite a few ups and downs and hurdles to overcome during that time. This tells me that the reason for their relationship is because they fit together. They've sailed the waters for a while and realize they have a boat that's going to stay afloat.

I wish them all the happiness in the world and a whole lot of smooth sailing.
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  #760  
Old 11-24-2014, 12:08 PM
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From what I remember from older threads, Sofia never opened her own yoga studio. She just taught at a studio while studying for her certificate. I think there was some debate on whether she finished her training.

I thought someone else founded Project Playground and Sofia came on later?
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