Discussion about Sofia Hellqvist's Past & Future Role in the Royal Family

[Marengo]

TBH I think it best for CP and Sofia to stay in the background, like Madeleine and her husband. Just jhave a few public duties but focus on their own carreers -like PP. They will be/are secundary royals. And secundary royals can do little to improve the image of a monarchy, but they can cause a lot of harm. In all monarchies there is a trend to focus on the main players more and more. This will reduce the risk and also limit the impression that the entire lot is living on tax payers money. It happened in Norway, Netherlands, Spain, Luxembourg; it will happen in Belgium in the future as it is clear that the younger children of Filip and Mathilde need to find their own way in life and it is even happening in the BRF where esp. Clarence House seems the focus to be on the core members mainly.

I do not think it is fair to the BRF to compare CP's background to that of theirs. Both the DoY and Prince Harry went on active duty and have much more public engagements than CP. I suppose there is a lot more to do in a country like Britain than in the smaller monarchies of course.

As for Sofia: I can not recall a more unsuitable candidate in decades. A lady whose goal in life -until she met CP- seemed to have been pursue fame. She first tried this by selling out her body and by becoming a reality tv starlet. And now she succeeded by this marriage to CP. Her resume seems to be window dressing in the extreme, drummed up by the Swedish boulevard press, which I find rather annoying as I wonder if they think that we are all fools. Of course she may surprise us later, but for now I think that there are enough reasons to have doubts.

I find it a rather depressing thought that women are supposed to be responsible for the 'growing up' of their husbands btw. These gender roles seem rather dated to me.

[Bine221]

Great post, Marg.
Let´s wait and see and give her a Chance. Maybe she will surprise all of us.....
Bye Bine

[SElizabeth]

Originally Posted by Marengo

TBH I think it best for CP and Sofia to stay in the background, like Madeleine and her husband. Just jhave a few public duties but focus on their own carreers -like PP. They will be/are secundary royals. And secundary royals can do little to improve the image of a monarchy, but they can cause a lot of harm. In all monarchies there is a trend to focus on the main players more and more. This will reduce the risk and also limit the impression that the entire lot is living on tax payers money. It happened in Norway, Netherlands, Spain, Luxembourg; it will happen in Belgium in the future as it is clear that the younger children of Filip and Mathilde need to find their own way in life and it is even happening in the BRF where esp. Clarence House seems the focus to be on the core members mainly.

I do not think it is fair to the BRF to compare CP's background to that of theirs. Both the DoY and Prince Harry went on active duty and have much more public engagements than CP. I suppose there is a lot more to do in a country like Britain than in the smaller monarchies of course.

As for Sofia: I can not recall a more unsuitable candidate in decades. A lady whose goal in life -until she met CP- seemed to have been pursue fame. She first tried this by selling out her body and by becoming a reality tv starlet. And now she succeeded by this marriage to CP. Her resume seems to be window dressing in the extreme, drummed up by the Swedish boulevard press, which I find rather annoying as I wonder if they think that we are all fools. Of course she may surprise us later, but for now I think that there are enough reasons to have doubts.

I find it a rather depressing thought that women are supposed to be responsible for the 'growing up' of their husbands btw. These gender roles seem rather dated to me.

An extremely well said intelligent comment and right to the point!

Now let's wait and see how well she and PC preform for they are surly being paid by the taxpayer to do a job and promote Sweden.............

[SElizabeth]

Originally Posted by Marengo

TBH I think it best for CP and Sofia to stay in the background, like Madeleine and her husband. Just jhave a few public duties but focus on their own carreers -like PP. They will be/are secundary royals. And secundary royals can do little to improve the image of a monarchy, but they can cause a lot of harm. In all monarchies there is a trend to focus on the main players more and more. This will reduce the risk and also limit the impression that the entire lot is living on tax payers money. It happened in Norway, Netherlands, Spain, Luxembourg; it will happen in Belgium in the future as it is clear that the younger children of Filip and Mathilde need to find their own way in life and it is even happening in the BRF where esp. Clarence House seems the focus to be on the core members mainly.

I do not think it is fair to the BRF to compare CP's background to that of theirs. Both the DoY and Prince Harry went on active duty and have much more public engagements than CP. I suppose there is a lot more to do in a country like Britain than in the smaller monarchies of course.

As for Sofia: I can not recall a more unsuitable candidate in decades. A lady whose goal in life -until she met CP- seemed to have been pursue fame. She first tried this by selling out her body and by becoming a reality tv starlet. And now she succeeded by this marriage to CP. Her resume seems to be window dressing in the extreme, drummed up by the Swedish boulevard press, which I find rather annoying as I wonder if they think that we are all fools. Of course she may surprise us later, but for now I think that there are enough reasons to have doubts.

I find it a rather depressing thought that women are supposed to be responsible for the 'growing up' of their husbands btw. These gender roles seem rather dated to me.

Thank you Marengo, I have often wondered if the entire world thinks many of us are fools and believe everything the stuff that comes out of the media and courts...in my personal dealings with the press, I now believe 1% of what is printed and ignore the 99% as in researching a subject there are always many different scenarios from everybody.

[Lee-Z]

Originally Posted by Irish Lass

Now let's wait and see how well she and PC preform for they are surly being paid by the taxpayer to do a job and promote Sweden.............

Are they paid by the taxpayer? I was my understanding that only the King's and Crown-princess' households were paid by the government?

[LadyFinn]

Originally Posted by Lee-Z

Are they paid by the taxpayer? I was my understanding that only the King's and Crown-princess' households were paid by the government?

The king shares the apanage he gets also to Carl Philip and Madeleine. Like it has many times told, Madeleine will get a share of the apanage when she works for the royal family. And the same goes for Carl Philip.

[KitKat2006]

Originally Posted by LadyFinn

The king shares the apanage he gets also to Carl Philip and Madeleine. Like it has many times told, Madeleine will get a share of the apanage when she works for the royal family. And the same goes for Carl Philip.

But in that case it's still only the king and Victoria who get paid by the tax payers. Not Madeleine and Carl Philip. And if their dad wants to give them money for which he already worked, the taxpayers can't expect Madeleine and Carl Philip to work a second time for it. It's just like if my dad wants to give me some of his money so that I can buy myself a nice dress, then his employer can't expect me to come into his office to work for the money, because my dad already worked for it.

[SElizabeth]

Now I am just curious, if PC does not get money from the taxpayer, where does he get his money for the homes he lives in, the up keep of those homes, servants, the travel he does on his own personal time, the clothes, the food, the utility bills, the entertainment expenses, the support of his girlfriend, who supports his car racing and design ideas, all the money he spends? It has to come from somewhere and he doesn't have a real job besides being Prince of Sweden. This is just a question no more no less. And all monies that the king gets comes from the taxpayers, so where does PC get his expenses paid for if not by the king? I think a thread on money of royal families and how it is spent would be a good idea. After all they do live very well indeed.

[KitKat2006]

Trust funds, inherited money from centuries ago (the house Bernadotte is very old), inherited houses (it has been in the press a few years ago), the money he makes with the few design and photo works every now and then and yes, also money from the king which is from the apanage. But it's the kings money, like I already posted and if he wants to give his son or younger daughter some of it, it's his decision. Like I said, both don't have to work AGAIN for the money that is already earned. Even if CP or Madeleine would live only from the apanage of their father they wouldn't have to work for it. It would send a very wrong sign to the Swedes, that I admit. But we couldn't really hold it against them, because their father worked for it and can spend it like he likes.

[LadyFinn]

Originally Posted by KitKat2006

But in that case it's still only the king and Victoria who get paid by the tax payers. Not Madeleine and Carl Philip. And if their dad wants to give them money for which he already worked, the taxpayers can't expect Madeleine and Carl Philip to work a second time for it. It's just like if my dad wants to give me some of his money so that I can buy myself a nice dress, then his employer can't expect me to come into his office to work for the money, because my dad already worked for it.

Of course it is still the taxpayers money, because the king gives it from the money he has got from the taxpayers, since Carl Philip and Madeleine don't have their own households. It is the court's organization.
There was a lot of talk about the apanage when Madeleine moved to USA and many questions were raised if she lived there on taxpayers' money. And then the director of the press department Bertil Ternert specified, that Madeleine could her get money from the apanage only when she was at on official work duty for the royal family. It has been decided that the court must give a more specified information to what they are spending their money for, so maybe we will see next year more information about that.

[LadyFinn]

Originally Posted by Lee-Z

Found a link:
Prince Carl Philip Highest-Paid Prince in the World - Mediamass

to quote the relevant part:
He owes his fortune to smart stock investments, substantial property holdings, lucrative endorsement deals with CoverGirl cosmetics. He also owns several restaurants (the “Fat Prince Carl Philip Burger” chain) in Stockholm, a Football Team (the “Stockholm Angels”), has launched his own brand of Vodka (Pure Wonderprince Carl Philip - Sweden), and is tackling the juniors market with a top-selling perfume (With Love from Carl Philip) and a fashion line called “Prince Carl Philip Seduction

I'm sure that you understood that this is a fun page, which has no truth at all. They have also this article today
http://en.mediamass.net/people/crown...n/married.html

[Lee-Z]

Originally Posted by LadyFinn

I'm sure that you understood that this is a fun page, which has no truth at all. They have also this article today
Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden: Secretly Married? - Mediamass

no i didn't, thank you for mentioning it, i will delete my previous post

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I wonder if things would be better if Sofia gave a Mette Marit style interview. I don't think she should apologize for anything but maybe just aknowledge her past and the concerns about it.
In addition Sofia is actually working? That's puts her leagues ahead of a certain BRF newbie.

[SElizabeth]

Originally Posted by LadyFinn

I'm sure that you understood that this is a fun page, which has no truth at all. They have also this article today
Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden: Secretly Married? - Mediamass

Please tell me that humans aren't really doing this? If so, what the heck, why waste time printing something that happened years ago as news of today? Who are these idiots? Fun,..and to think people actually believe this, heaven help us all.

[SElizabeth]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

I wonder if things would be better if Sofia gave a Mette Marit style interview. I don't think she should apologize for anything but maybe just aknowledge her past and the concerns about it.
In addition Sofia is actually working? That's puts her leagues ahead of a certain BRF newbie.

That is a very good idea you have, I applaud MM for doing so for it took guts and strength and self-confidence to acknowledge her past. I think in the long run it helped the people of Norway and the rest of the royal family to accept her and give her a second chance. She has turned her life around and now happily married with her own family and future heir.

As for SH working, well, that is up to whomever thinks she is or isn't. She does have PP yet how much actual work is being done, no one knows for sure and can only assume what the media puts out and we all know that the media prints the truth all the time, NOT. I do wonder how much time she actually spends in Africa....the number of days there would be interesting to see. Anyhow who knows for sure is up to question.

[Lee-Z]

Originally Posted by SElizabeth

As for SH working, well, that is up to whomever thinks she is or isn't. She does have PP yet how much actual work is being done, no one knows for sure and can only assume what the media puts out and we all know that the media prints the truth all the time, NOT. I do wonder how much time she actually spends in Africa....the number of days there would be interesting to see. Anyhow who knows for sure is up to question.

OT: this reminds me of a client I once had and who thought I was only working when I had a stack of paper piled up on my desk (I was a computer-software developer at the time, most of my work involved a computer and relatively little actual paper )

With which I mean to say: just because you don't "see" the work someone else is doing, doesn't mean there not working...

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Marengo

As for Sofia: I can not recall a more unsuitable candidate in decades. A lady whose goal in life -until she met CP- seemed to have been pursue fame. She first tried this by selling out her body and by becoming a reality tv starlet. And now she succeeded by this marriage to CP. Her resume seems to be window dressing in the extreme, drummed up by the Swedish boulevard press, which I find rather annoying as I wonder if they think that we are all fools. Of course she may surprise us later, but for now I think that there are enough reasons to have doubts.

If Sofia is as "unsuitable" as you say, why did the Swedish government consent to CP's marriage to her ? They could have withdrawn consent and forced CP to give up his place in the line of succession to marry, but they didn't.

Most likely, princess Estelle will have a long life and succeed her grandfather and her mother on the throne, but, right now, her only available "spare" is her cousin Leonore, whose own constitutional status is uncertain as long as she lives in the US. In fact, if Leonore doesn't move permanently to Sweden by the time she starts grade school, she might be disqualified from the succession under Swedish law. I suppose the King would be further reassured if CP had children of his own and CP's children were not excluded from the succession. That is one of the reasons why, I suspect, he agreed to the marriage after realizing CP would not give up Sofia, with whom he is already living together BTW.

As for Sofia's "life goals", it is ironic that, for most of human history, it was perfectly acceptable and even expected that a woman's only goal in life should be to get married and become a good wife and mother. It was only in the last 50 years or so, with the so-called "emancipation of women", that we began, rightfully so, to expect women to get an education and a career of their own. Still, the university-educated middle-class women who married recently into European royal families such as Maxima, Letizia, or Mary in the end did give up their careers and independence to become de facto full-time wives and mothers. I guess things haven't changed that much after all as far as royalty is concerned.

[soapstar]

Originally Posted by SElizabeth

That is a very good idea you have, I applaud MM for doing so for it took guts and strength and self-confidence to acknowledge her past. I think in the long run it helped the people of Norway and the rest of the royal family to accept her and give her a second chance. She has turned her life around and now happily married with her own family and future heir.

As for SH working, well, that is up to whomever thinks she is or isn't. She does have PP yet how much actual work is being done, no one knows for sure and can only assume what the media puts out and we all know that the media prints the truth all the time, NOT. I do wonder how much time she actually spends in Africa....the number of days there would be interesting to see. Anyhow who knows for sure is up to question.

In another thread, LadyFinn posted a list of sightings and events that Sofia has attended this year. According to that, it appears that Sofia has spent 10 days in Africa (this year).

I don't know much about her work with PP, so I'm curious to know how much time she spent in Africa during previous years.

[Skippy]

I find the feeling/thought of entitlement and "let her prove me wrong" prejudice quite funny. She doesn't owe anything to anyone here and if you don't like 'em, leave 'em. Just my opinion.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

I wonder if things would be better if Sofia gave a Mette Marit style interview. I don't think she should apologize for anything but maybe just aknowledge her past and the concerns about it.
In addition Sofia is actually working? That's puts her leagues ahead of a certain BRF newbie.

That would be a very good idea.
It would give the Swedes and the rest of us a chance to get to know who Sofia is and what she stands for.
Perhaps such an in-depth portrait will be aired early next year.

As for CP&S not having to be accountable to the taxpayers when they get their money indirectly, that is not an argument I agree with.
They are living representatives of Sweden as a consequence of their position and titles.
If they do not wish to be held accountable, they will have to relinguish their status as royals and become commoners.
To have a couple of inactive "semi-royals" in country in perfect working order and in the prime of their lives would be a folly.
It would be a kind of "ask not what you can do for Sweden, ask instead what you can do for yourself" situation.

I cannot see why CP&S cannot be expected to work for their country, why they cannot be challenged and grow with that challenge. Surely it must be in their interest as well to prove that Sofia is more than what her past suggests.
She may not succeed but at least she can try.