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  #401  
Old 07-19-2014, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Is it really necessary to attack people in such a manner when they disagree with you?
I don't call this attacking, it is my opinion whether you like it or not......and others are allowed to name call someone.......different standards do apply when someone voices an opinion that is way different then the sugar that floats around........I don't do sugar for anyone unless I think they deserve it and that is my standards and opinion and for others so be it.......
And as for SH being famous before she met PCP, famous for what? How intelligent is it to do what she did, not at all. You can like her, I can not like her, so what....
We each have our own standards in life of what we think/expect of people regardless of who they are.......
This is the very beginning and as someone here said *if in time she becomes like Princess Lillian then I will also comeback and eat my words*, so will I.....give it time I say........
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  #402  
Old 07-19-2014, 03:16 AM
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I can't compare Sofia with princess Lilian at all, since princess Lilian lived about 30 years in Sweden in total privacy. She was discreet and dignified. Yes, the times were different, but still. Sofia has been openly with Carl Philip ever since the press told that they are dating.
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  #403  
Old 07-19-2014, 03:33 AM
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Ish:The way Emma gets described, as this independent, career-minded woman, makes for amazing qualities in a woman, but not so great qualities in a royal bride.

Ish:
Please don't let Queen Maxima or Queen Litzia hear that, both are very strong highly intelligent ladies in their own right with high demanding careers before they met their prince. And I would say that neither prince expects them to walk 3 steps behind them as the princes are also highly intelligent hard working men. These are different men then PCP, they want/expect more from the women they marry..........these are partnership in equal terms of both men and women.

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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
I can't compare Sofia with princess Lilian at all, since princess Lilian lived about 30 years in Sweden in total privacy. She was discreet and dignified. Yes, the times were different, but still. Sofia has been openly with Carl Philip ever since the press told that they are dating.
Your right Lady Finn, Princess Lillian was a most gracious and dignified lady/princess, someone who commanded respect and got it for the type of lady that she was. I think she was also an increditablely beautiful lady, just stunning!
  #404  
Old 07-19-2014, 05:28 AM
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Much as I think many would have wished for a more "proper" wife for Carl Philip, Sofia is who he has chosen, his parents endorsed and the government rubber stamped.

So we have Sofia Hellqvist, one time model and currently working for a charity, engaged to and living with, her partner Carl Philip, who just happens to be a Prince. Every young girl's dream.

Bottom line, barring a catastrophe, they will marry next year and everyone that loathes her will just have to accept it as a fact. There is nothing to be gained by going over and over her early poor choices and psychoanalysing every little thing she has said and done on record. It will not change a thing. At the very least I believe she will become a Duchess and, with doting parents, perhaps more.

As the King and Queen grow older they are going to need at least one other couple of CP Victoria's generation to uphold the House of Bernadotte. Madeleine and Chris seem to have their own lives to live.

To my way of thinking she comes off as sort of awkward. She doesn't smile and wave to the press with the elan or confidence of an actress or that of a royal. There is almost a naďve quality about the way she acts. Regardless of her celebrity/notoriety, there is an almost childlike air about her, as she looks around at everyone else. Try checking a young royal at a "first", the expressions will be much the same.

I hope she is not overly hurt by the incredibly harsh judgements people have made and that her engagement is a time of learning as well as preparation for her wedding because, for better or worse, CP loves her and she loves him.
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  #405  
Old 07-19-2014, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cris M View Post
Some people will use Sofia's past against her forever, that cannot be changed, just like the past. For me, the important thing is that she moved from her past and doing her charity and building a future with the man she loves. Too bad if some people here are trapped on the past. Too bad for them, of course. But it all to easy to judge when we're safely protected by avatars and usernames and with our garbage well-hidden.

They say the Prince and his fiancé are hanger-ons, ignoring that Prince Carl Philip is a patron of medical research and sports amd that he also has he's work as racer and a designer. And, of course, they ignore Sofia's role with Project Playground, for which she seems very dedicated. Some posters also seems to know the exact amount of money Prince Carl Philip receives from the taxpayer, and I would love to know from where they got the information.

I also read here that we can't assume here - I even know speculation is not allowed here -, but seems okay to speculate that the Royal Family doesn't like Sofia, the swedish people does not want Prince Carl Philip to marry her and I even read some speculation that Prince Carl Philip and Sofia were cheating on the perfect and immaculate Saint Emma Pernald.

Some posters also should notice that Prince Carl Philip and Sofia are now Crown Princess Victoria and Prince Daniel or Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill. The situations are different and people involved are different. I doubt the Swedish Royal Family plans every engagement and wedding to happen exactly as the previous one.

But I know many people here don't see a need to stick to the facts, the ridiculous, childish, bitter and envious irrational hatred they feel for Prince Carl Philip and Sofia is the only thing that matters.
Best comment I've read about the Carl Philip and Sofia situation in a very long while. Thank you so much. I couldn't have done better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
If CP isn't objecting to her behaviour here, what right do we have to object?

I think people often forget that Sofia is a celebrity in her own right. Whether you respect the choices she made before she met CP or not, she was a person with a level of fame and a relationship with and attitude towards the press that was developed well before her current relationship. While it may be breaking taboos around being with a royal (or quasi-royal) it is a fact. Consider the Tindalls in Britain - Mike and Zara, both being celebrities in their own right because of their careers have a relationship with the press that is very different from Zara's royal cousins. Mike doesn't get criticized when he answers questions about his personal life, and shouldn't be, because that's the relationship he developed with the press well before he met Zara. It's not because he's using her for fame, it's because he was famous before her.

I think a big reason why Sofia (and Gad for that matter) get this criticism while people like Mike don't is that the public generally approves of Mike, but disapproves of Sofia and Gad.
Great comment also. I've said this before but it is always brushed aside with an "Famous for what? Parading naked in front of a camera or doing silly stuff in a reality show?" Fact is, it isn't important for what she is famous, just that she is or rather has been before meeting Carl Philip. Like you said, she developed her own relationship with the press and just keeps true to them. Honestly, I think the same people "blablabla"ing about her talking to the press would write comments like "Now that she's the girlfriend of a prince she feels she is to good for the occassional statements she did before. How arrogant of her. Does she already think she's a princess herself?" Like someone (I think Dman) already wrote: She is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. Luckily for her she seems to have enough selfesteem to ignore those comments.

Btw, it's nice to have so much new posters here who are willing to give Sofia a chance since the engagement was announced. Posters who see what she does today and let her past be her past. It was a very lonely battle for us few who were willing to do that for years now.
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Use your chance, Sofia. You're doing a fine job so far.
  #406  
Old 07-19-2014, 06:34 AM
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Well imo it could have been much worse:
- being a known criminal or associating with criminals (and no, soft-porn/nudity is not criminal)
- having extremist/militant political views (yes, for a spouse of a royal that's potentially a very bad thing)
- being a hard-core porn actress who weekly has gangbangs in public
- etc etc

No royal spouse past or present is perfect: not ..a..single..one...
  #407  
Old 07-19-2014, 06:59 AM
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SElizabeth: It's very clear that your opinion and my opinion about Prince Carl Philip and Sofia could not be further apart. No, I am not in love with her as you state, I am just very fiery in my way of expressing things. Just like you are, in fact.

Neither, to my knowledge, have I said that I know things. I always use phrases as "I think", "according to me", "I get the feeling". I keep the message with myself, as I can only speak for myself and what I think or feel.

I remain with what I have said, just like you do - we won't ever agree, so let's keep it at this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
I can't compare Sofia with princess Lilian at all, since princess Lilian lived about 30 years in Sweden in total privacy. She was discreet and dignified. Yes, the times were different, but still. Sofia has been openly with Carl Philip ever since the press told that they are dating.
I guess that Sofia is from a new generation, who is more open, and that does not suit everyone. I don't mind, I think it's a sign of changed/evolved times. Royals are people of flesh and blood also and not holy, elevated people who live in their own world.

But some people do still prefer that way.
  #408  
Old 07-19-2014, 07:44 AM
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Carl Philip should not be receiving apanage. He is only the younger brother
  #409  
Old 07-19-2014, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Fox View Post
Carl Philip should not be receiving apanage. He is only the younger brother
He doesn't get apanage AFAIK. Only Carl Gustaf (because he's the king) king and Victoria (because she's the crown princess) get apanage for their work. And if they give their spouses, kids some of their apanage it's their decission. Just like it's the choice of a banker if he keeps all the money he works for for himself or gives some to his spouse or kids. They don't need to go to the bank and work for the money that's already been worked for. That would be completely idiotic. So why everyone thinks it should be otherwise in a RF is beyond me. Like I said a few weeks ago, only the king and Victoria really have to work, because they get the money. Everyone else in the RF works for free and gets only some money because the king and Victoria decided so. The money is worked for by Victoria and the king. Everyone else doesn't need to do anything for the money. But some just don't want to get that into their heads.
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Prejudice is opinion without judgement.
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I'm a firm supporter of fair chance's.
Use your chance, Sofia. You're doing a fine job so far.
  #410  
Old 07-19-2014, 08:02 AM
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Oh I didnt know that.
But why dont he get a job I Wonder. And why dont sofia get a job.
  #411  
Old 07-19-2014, 12:23 PM
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This subject will always have a huge divide. Exactly as there is one when discussing Charles and Camilla. You can't change the past. If it upsets you all that much maybe you should try not to think about it. Me, I am loving the fact that some royals, that have been crucified in media, are now coming into their own and doing great while others are being found out as "not-so-good". Makes for really good reading but doesn't affect my life or temper.
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  #412  
Old 07-19-2014, 12:52 PM
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Good evening to everyone! I never said they shouldn't marry. I do think that they deserve each other, look perfectly matched etc.

But CP should quit his titles and denounce his rights to the throne first. I was basically asking: Aren't the Swedes shocked about their new princess-to-be? I mean they are going to pay for her lifestyle as long as she lives, either she remains married or divorces CP.

And a simple question to all these people who rush to support Sofia and her past: would you like such a girl to marry your brother? Would you welcome her with joy as a member of your family? A straight yes or no.
  #413  
Old 07-19-2014, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by NoorMeansLight View Post
But CP should quit his titles and denounce his rights to the throne first. I was basically asking: Aren't the Swedes shocked about their new princess-to-be? I mean they are going to pay for her lifestyle as long as she lives, either she remains married or divorces CP.
The King and the Government of Sweden said he could marry her and keep his titles and succession rights, so I doubt we - people on a Internet forums - can say what he should have done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoorMeansLight View Post
And a simple question to all these people who rush to support Sofia and her past: would you like such a girl to marry your brother? Would you welcome her with joy as a member of your family? A straight yes or no.
Yes.

I would love to see my brother marrying a girl who loves him and makes him happy. I would look beyond her huge past mistakes and respect her for her charity work and willingness to change, as I see no need to be trapped in the past and resentful, unforgiving and judgmental.
  #414  
Old 07-19-2014, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by NoorMeansLight View Post
Good evening to everyone! I never said they shouldn't marry. I do think that they deserve each other, look perfectly matched etc.

But CP should quit his titles and denounce his rights to the throne first. I was basically asking: Aren't the Swedes shocked about their new princess-to-be? I mean they are going to pay for her lifestyle as long as she lives, either she remains married or divorces CP.

And a simple question to all these people who rush to support Sofia and her past: would you like such a girl to marry your brother? Would you welcome her with joy as a member of your family? A straight yes or no.
If my family and I got to know the young lady over a period of time and we see my brother very happy and she's very happy, yes, we would welcome the young lady with open arms. It's about getting to know the person on a much more face to face and personal level that makes the difference.

It's pretty easy to sit behind a computer, look at a set of photos and judge a person.

I don't think Prince Carl Philip will denounce his titles and rights to the throne because there's no need for him to do so and most likely the royal family, parliament and people of Sweden don't see a need for him to do so either.
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  #415  
Old 07-19-2014, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by NoorMeansLight View Post
And a simple question to all these people who rush to support Sofia and her past: would you like such a girl to marry your brother? Would you welcome her with joy as a member of your family? A straight yes or no.
Yes
(in our family we all have flaws and we would first get to know her before passing judgement, when we knew her well, we would probably be interested to know what it was like to pose naked
What would turn us off would be if she was nasty to him or slap or belittle him... we like that less, but even then we'd welcome her with open arms if our brother would like us to)
  #416  
Old 07-19-2014, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoorMeansLight View Post
And a simple question to all these people who rush to support Sofia and her past: would you like such a girl to marry your brother? Would you welcome her with joy as a member of your family? A straight yes or no.
I wouldn't bother to be honest. My siblings can marry who they want, it's their business. I would never start a discussion or interfere about a choice of partner since I don't have to live with that particular person and I wouldn't want anyone else doing the same to me. In my family there are in-laws who aren't my cup of tea, but we get along nicely on the few occasions we meet. We respect each other and do not get too close unless being invited to. You don't have to be close or best friends with everybody, a superficial relation will do imo.

With regard to Sweden, I don't think many Swedes bother and will agree that CP can marry who he likes since I don't think what the SRF does will be important or interesting for too many people anyway. CP doesn't get an apanage, so CG will pay for him and Sofia privately. People might get annoyed if Sofia turns herself into Her Royal Celebrity.

In general, with CP marrying Sofia, the decline of the idea of monarchy or the regard in what the SRF is being held in public will only be faster.
  #417  
Old 07-19-2014, 03:06 PM
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DoM,

A large part of it is the aggressive way the Swedish press has decided to champion this girl, whitewash her past, and suppress any dissent by refusing to print opposing, negative viewpoints about her. I think SH would be wise to take a lesson from the sad, sordid tale of Sarah Ferguson. Once the British press built her up as the next best thing since diet soda, they went after her like ravenous wolves. Her downfall was shocking to see. The press giveth and the press taketh away, believe it.

Nothing can be truer than your last statement. I am starting to see the SRF as not truly even "Royal" anymore. As unfair as it might sound, they are just like my neighbors living in gorgeous palaces with a cache of great jewelry at their fingertips.
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  #418  
Old 07-19-2014, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
In general, with CP marrying Sofia, the decline of the idea of monarchy or the regard in what the SRF is being held in public will only be faster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
DoM,
Nothing can be truer than your last statement. I am starting to see the SRF as not truly even "Royal" anymore. As unfair as it might sound, they are just like my neighbors living in gorgeous palaces with a cache of great jewelry at their fingertips.
In that respect, which monarchy is still royal in these days?
  #419  
Old 07-19-2014, 03:17 PM
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DoM,

A large part of it is the aggressive way the Swedish press has decided to champion this girl, whitewash her past, and suppress any dissent by refusing to print opposing, negative viewpoints about her. I think SH would be wise to take a lesson from the sad, sordid tale of Sarah Ferguson. Once the British press built her up as the next best thing since diet soda, they went after her like ravenous wolves. Her downfall was shocking to see. The press giveth and the press taketh away, believe it.
I agree with you, the only motivation for the press to do so is to make money. They built up Sofia, and now they are rewarded with coverage since she becomes a public person. Depending what makes more money, she will be the fairy tale princess or the celebrity princess or the princess who polarizes and is being hauted by the press.

IMO the Swedish press has been working on the whitewash for that reason only since Victoria is quite boring and the Madeleine drama topic will eventually fade out. Sofia is the future cash cow for the pink press and I believe she is happy to deliver.
  #420  
Old 07-19-2014, 03:25 PM
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In that respect, which monarchy is still royal in these days?
I can only answer for myself. The ones that I believe conduct themselves with at least a semblance of Royal dignity are Spain, Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Denmark...in fact most of them except Monaco and now Sweden.

I deeply admire Elizabeth II most of all. She is everything a true Royal should be.
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