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  #21  
Old 06-27-2014, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Being royal today is about representing your country. Wherever she and CP will go on public visits abroad, the nude photos will be published and there is very little else to write about.
In other words: diplomatically speaking she has very little weight.
This is on point and speaking of things diplomatic, if one sees the royals to be the ultimate diplomats of a country, then she's a liability to the RF rather than an asset simply because she's an easy target for anyone who wishes to malign the RF. The good news is, her past mistakes are not of a political nature (she wasn't an anarchist, a neo-Nazi, etc.) so that can still be changed with a good team that should carefully map out her life in the next few years. Sometimes, all you need is a good PR team who'll put the right spin to the most horrible things (sad but true).

Since I'm neither a Swede, nor a member of this family, I need not be stressed about the Prince's choice of a bride, lol. This pairing though, is an opportunity for anti-monarchy advocates everywhere to point out how much of a joke royals are these days, as I'm already seeing in social media.

Random note, can anyone imagine what a field day the Spanish press would have if Carl-Philip were a Spanish prince?
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  #22  
Old 06-27-2014, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by princess carmen View Post
I would think the press would have better things to do than keep dragging her past up . What is done is done she can't change it. The family have accepted her and given their blessing that is really what matters. She can learn what ever she needs to know.
The U-turn in the Swedish royal family regarding marriages is quite remarkable though. Keep in mind that, until 40 years ago or so, the Bernadotte princes were only legally allowed to marry members of other royal families, or else they would lose their place in the line of succession. Both of King Carl XVI Gustaf's parents for example were great-grandchildren of Queen Victoria of the United Kingdom. Then, after Carl Gustaf's accession, we had a succession of "unequal marriages" (Silvia, Daniel, Chris O'Neill, and now Sofia), which were all controversial to a certain extent.

I remember someone else posting on these boards that the old Swedish nobility no longer takes the Royal Family seriously, but I don't know if that is true. Ordinary Swedes, however, seem to appreciate the idea that Victoria married the man she loved (instead of getting into an arranged marriage) and the Royal Court has been very efficient in spinning Daniel and Victoria as a modern "fairy tale" (remember the cute little girl who sang to Daniel in his pre-wedding concert about his "suddenly becoming prince"). The public is not so keen on Sofia though, first because she is seen as "trashy" and, second, because, well, as Marx wrote, history repeats itself the second time as farce. Sofia will have a hard time proving herself on the job, but she will get the public's approval eventually. Just as Camilla did in the UK for instance.
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  #23  
Old 06-27-2014, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
Daniel was discreet because he was told to be. He wasn't allowed to talk about Victoria before the engagement. We have all seen that he isn't shy at all and is the most interviewed person in the royal family. Chris isn't in Sweden very much so he doesn't meet the press very much. Obviously no one has said to Sofia that she has to be discreet.
But how could they date for years without anyone telling her that she should be discreet? It seems that Daniel got the message. Sofia thought she knew better. (Or at least that's what it looks like to me)
  #24  
Old 06-27-2014, 04:28 PM
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Also, Sofia has been discreet. She didn't reveal anything inappropriate about her relationship with Prince Carl Philip and the royal family. Also, she was in a very unique position. A great deal of false stories have been written about her and I think she had every right to stand up for herself when she felt the need to do so.
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  #25  
Old 06-27-2014, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
[Would we deem her unmarriageable]// quote

My very middle class parents would have had a complete meltdown if my younger brother had introduced a Sofia Hellqvist into our family.
Yet my parents would have been more worried about a Mette Marit than a Sofia. But they also would have gotten to know the person, which is more than I can say for some on here.
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  #26  
Old 06-27-2014, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by QueenJen View Post
I'm not sure how the Swedish government system works, so if there is someone out there who can clarify, I would appreciate it.
Sweden is a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary government. Legislative power is vested in the Riksdag (the Swedish parliament), which is elected by universal suffrage every 4 years. Executive power is vested in the government, which is headed by the prime minister.

Since 1975, the King is no longer part of the government and has no role in appointing the prime minister or sanctioning laws. When a prime minister resigns, usually following a defeat in a general election, the president of the Riksdag nominates a new prime minister, which has to be confirmed then by a majority vote in the parliament. As a result of that mechanism, the prime minister is normally always the leader of the party (or coalition of parties) that has the most seats in the elected Riksdag. Once the prime minister is confirmed, he appoints the other cabinet ministers that form the government. The Riksdag can approve a motion of no confidence in any of the ministers, which forces the affected minister to be exonerated. If a motion of no confidence in the prime minister is passed, the whole government is exonerated and a new prime minister and government have to be appointed following the same procedure used after a general election.


The King remains however the ceremonial Head of State and, in addition to hosting state visits, attending national celebrations, and representing Sweden abroad, he still has a few residual official responsibilities that involve the government and the legislature. For example, he opens the Riksdag at the beginning of each legislative session and also chairs a special council of ministers when a new government is sworn in. In addition, he holds regular "Councils of State" with the ministers (usually every 3 months or so), where he is kept informed about government policies, and he also chairs the so-called "Foreign Affairs Advisory Council", which is a body including members of the opposition parties that the government must consult before making major foreign policy decisions. As Head of State, the King is also responsible for accepting the diplomatic credentials of representatives of foreign governments and for issuing the credentials of all Swedish diplomats posted overseas.

The royal succession is currently hereditary in the descendants of King Carl XVI Gustaf, with the order of succession determined by absolute primogeniture without gender preference. A prince or princess of the Royal House lose their succession rights if they are not members of the Swedish Lutheran church, or if they either marry without the consent of the King and the government, or become Head of State of another country without the consent of the King and the Riksadg.
  #27  
Old 06-27-2014, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I disagree with you, Ladongas.

The main issue in my eyes is not the nude photos themselves. Royals get photographed in the buff from time to time themselves.
The main issue in my eyes is that she has very little to offer that outweighs her past.
Has she a university degree? Has she done some serious volunteer work? Has she served in Afghanistan? Has she worked in a refugee camp? Has she worked with handicapped children?
Something that signals that she is more than nude breasts and a reality show.

Being royal today is about representing your country. Wherever she and CP will go on public visits abroad, the nude photos will be published and there is very little else to write about.
In other words: diplomatically speaking she has very little weight.
Sofia started Project Playground together with a friend which helps children in need in and around Cape Town. So yes, she has done quite a lot of volunteer work since her days as a glamour model.
  #28  
Old 06-27-2014, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by moby View Post
Random note, can anyone imagine what a field day the Spanish press would have if Carl-Philip were a Spanish prince?
They would get down on their knees and thank whatever demons editors-in-chief worship.
  #29  
Old 06-27-2014, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post

Also, Sofia has been discreet. She didn't reveal anything inappropriate about her relationship with Prince Carl Philip and the royal family.
Her tweet about revealing she was indeed dating Prince Carl Philip was anything but discreet I'm afraid.
  #30  
Old 06-27-2014, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icea View Post
Sofia started Project Playground together with a friend which helps children in need in and around Cape Town. So yes, she has done quite a lot of volunteer work since her days as a glamour model.
Good, that's a beginning.
However, since she is climbing a very steep hill, she needs to do a lot of that!
Because her honeymoon with the press and the public will be considerably shorter than other princesses. (I assume she'll become a princess).
  #31  
Old 06-27-2014, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Elektra View Post
Her tweet about revealing she was indeed dating Prince Carl Philip was anything but discreet I'm afraid.
The tweet sill didn't reveal anything inappropriate. Most likely the palace and Prince Carl Philip allowed her to stand up for herself when she felt the need to do so. Couldn't have been easy for her when she had no official backing at the time.
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  #32  
Old 06-27-2014, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
So many posters taking the moral high ground. So condescending that some of you are "willing to give her a chance". Have you any idea what you sound like?

No one is allowed to improve? No one is allowed to move on in their lives? Do you always cast out people you know that have done something you dont approve of?

Unkind and ungenerous is what it sounds like.

I wish them best wishes and fortitude against the media onslaught. I dont think they would bother with sites like this
As one of those that said, "I'm willing to give her a chance", I absolutely do think people are allowed to move on and change. But I'm also of the belief that a person has to show me that they've changed. Has Sofia changed? Who knows. Hence the reason that I'm willing to give her a chance. If this makes me sound unkind and ungenerous, then so be it.

And just because I'm not completely sure of Sofia, doesn't mean that I don't wish this couple well. I hope they have a long and happy marriage.

ETA: Her nude photos don't bother me as much, it's the constant press interviews that gives me pause.
  #33  
Old 06-27-2014, 06:14 PM
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I have to laugh when people say that she seems sorry to have made "mistakes". One wonders if she only sees them as mistakes now because she is marrying a Prince. Considering the number of tacky things in which she was involved ie pictures; magazines and that dreadful reality show she certainly seemed to be at complete ease with them the time. Also we can't assume that the Royal Family accept her as some posters have said. If CP is determined to marry her then there isn't much they can do other than look happy about it as anything else would damage the Monarchy.
  #34  
Old 06-27-2014, 06:19 PM
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Wow, some people's butthurt is showing and it's getting quite tiresome. I understand that Carl Philip is a proper looker and he's been swooned over a lot here on these forums, but from that to literally lambasting his fiancé for something she did when she was younger? That's nothing but an ugly mix of sexism and jealousy to me.

I don't particularly care for either Carl Philip or Sofia – and I do think that the engagement was a little too grand for someone who isn't an heir (but that comes down to the King – not Sofia, of all people), but I do want to congratulate them on their engagement and wish them the best of luck and lots of happiness in their marriage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
So many posters taking the moral high ground. So condescending that some of you are "willing to give her a chance". Have you any idea what you sound like?

No one is allowed to improve? No one is allowed to move on in their lives? Do you always cast out people you know that have done something you dont approve of?

Unkind and ungenerous is what it sounds like.

I wish them best wishes and fortitude against the media onslaught. I dont think they would bother with sites like this
Bless this post. I agree with everything you wrote.
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  #35  
Old 06-27-2014, 06:24 PM
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If expressing negative judgments of public figures whom one does not know personally is baseless and inappropriate, surely it is equally baseless and inappropriate to express positive judgments of public figures whom one does not know personally?
  #36  
Old 06-27-2014, 06:41 PM
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I might also add that the reality show, Hotel Paradise, is on YouTube and shows Sophia having her buttocks massaged by a very hunky guy whilst she lies face down in only her bikini bottoms. Wikipedia also says that shortly after this show was aired she moved to America and made headlines for boasting about making out with the famous porn star Jenna Jamieson. God almighty, you couldn't make it up!!!
  #37  
Old 06-27-2014, 07:33 PM
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I simply do not understand why so many Victoria fans are getting so worked up about this? Victoria is extremely popular from all accounts, she had a wonderful wedding and I'm sure wants nothing more for her brother than his happiness.

I don't see why people are complaining that the King and Queen didn't follow this exact procedure for Victoria or Madeline following their engagements. It seems pretty clear to me that, understanding that this engagement is controversial for obvious reasons, they came out to offer their personal support in a way that wasn't really necessary for their other two children. They have to demonstrate fully to the public that they accept Sofia and believe her to be good enough for their son, knowing that some people would have difficulty with her.

The arrangements for this announcement were probably different because this engagement itself is pretty different to those of their other children.

I personally don't feel that people should be punished forever by some judgemental, morally superior goodie-two-shoes. Sofia made mistakes as a young woman and probably wishes she hadn't made them. She did not, however, break the law as Mette-Marit did, for example. Nor was her behaviour on a par with what Carl Gustav has been up to over the years.

She's never going to be Queen so I really don't understand why it bothers people so much.
  #38  
Old 06-27-2014, 08:12 PM
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If P.Carl Philip or K.Carl Gustav had been bothered by her behaviour or history they had plenty of time to say goodbye to her or instruct her to change..
If they can give her a chance, why wouldn't others be able to do so..

That said, my view on P.Carl Philip is that he's not a big fan of the official royal engagements and much rather be involved with his designs or car-racing, so maybe this wedding is a start of a life away from the limelight...
  #39  
Old 06-27-2014, 08:19 PM
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They will represent their country and she will have clothes on. She Can't change her past all she can do is go forward and do her best as a wife , princess and someday mother.
  #40  
Old 06-27-2014, 08:21 PM
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To me it's not a question of whether I like Sofia Hellqvist personally or not, or whether I think they'll be happy together.

The reason why I'm somewhat lukewarm towards her can be boiled down to two questions:

Would I like a woman like Sofia Hellqvist, with her past, with the unfortunate pictures that will show up for many years to come, to be the official representative of my country abroad if I was a Swede? (Carl Phillip is an official representative of Sweden, so he is not a part of the question here). - The answer is: Not really.

Considering that Carl Phillip himself has got some heat and that he hasn't got that big a credit in the public eye, do I think Sofia has what it takes to make them a good team? Is she princess material?
The answer is, taking her somewhat lacking accomplishments into account: Not at present. - She's behind on points and will have to work really hard to catch up. Has she got what it takes to go there? Not sure.

Last but by no means least: Sofia and Carl Phillip are after all just one planecrash away from being the main young royals in Sweden until Estelle is in her twenties.
Also, less omnious, we must expect Victoria to have more children, in which case she will be away on maternity leave and the main focus will shine directly on Sofia, because we cannot expect Madeleine to fly home and take over.

I honestly and sincerely hope I'm being pessimistic here and who knows? Perhaps Sofia will even become a treasured asset to the SRF. We can only hope - not least for her! Because being the most unpopular member of the SRF for the next 25 years won't be fun...
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