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  #321  
Old 07-02-2014, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by sesa View Post
Here is an odd thought: Maybe they (the RF) see this as a 2nd chance so to speak, or more of a "blank slate" if you will. Maybe they plan on sending her to "Princess School" like they did for Diana, Mary and Letizia? I say blank slate, as they can mold her into what they want and expect out of the wife of a Prince??? They can teach her how to deal with the press correctly, do more good work with more charities, expand and get more involved with her current charity and how to use her status as a positive role model for young ladies. How to own up to her past, but do it with decorum. CP does not have such a great reputation either. Maybe together, they can help rebuild each other's reputation for the better and turn out to be an asset to the RF???!!!!

Love the bit about owning up to her past with decorum. IMO, it would really go a long way for her. Who amoung us doesn't have sonething from our past we would sooner forget? Just don't try spin it, be honest about it.

I personally can't get past her obvious fame seeking. The nude pictures were not a good choice and can't be changed. The fame seeking can. If she can quietly go about her business while supporting C-P and her inlaws-to-be without the whole "look at me!" thing she does, I think it would perhaps build some goodwill for her. She doesn't seem like a bad person, just desperate for fame. That bothers me way more than pictures in men's magazines and a TV show I've never seen (nor care to see!)


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  #322  
Old 07-03-2014, 12:02 AM
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I have been following this discussion and one thing keeps jumping out at me. When I was in college and studied psychology we learned that the human brain does not fully mature until age 25. The last thing that develope's is the ability to forsea the consequences of your actions. This means that Sophia was under that age when she was "modeling".Could explain a lot about her and give some hope for a better future.
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  #323  
Old 07-03-2014, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Sometimes I wonder if posters who are saying Sofia "just" posed nude are being disingenuous?

I certainly wouldn't care if that's all that was involved. The human body is a beautiful creation, and Sofia's in particular is lovely.

It's what she is doing while she is in the nude that I find objectionable. I saw one photo over the weekend where she was semi-nude with her face buried in the lap of some middle-aged gentleman.

If it's "slut shaming" to say that I am surprised that the king and queen of Sweden don't mind someone like that marrying into and representing their family then....oh well!

I saw that pic too and was shocked.

I guess I am showing my age but I cannot equate disapproval of Sofia's use of her sexuality to gain publicity and money as "slut shaming". I never shy away from accepting the "feminist" label, sometimes much to my detriment, but I would have deep, deep reservations if someone with Sofia's behavioral patterns, pre-CP and with CP entered my department. I have seen people getting fired for much less ( letting drink get out of hand at post-work parties with potential customers, and or industry press).

And here we are talking of royal family of Sweden.


More I read the comments, more I am reminded of Sarah Palin, a VP candidate in US. She struck an emotional chord with her defenders, which her detractors could not fight against with facts on her personality, her past, lack of knowledge and skill-set. Watching her on national stage was like watching a slow train wreck. Before real world caught up with her, she was GOLD. People who were never involved in politics showed up for her rallies like she was the next messiah. Men were ga-ga over her. Women resented anyone who pointed out her flaws. She used her sexuality like a politician has never before. People with deep pockets were throwing money at her left, right and center. It was good while it lasted.


I fear the same with Sofia. she is going to be a sensation, eating up all the oxygen. All the stories will be about her and her antics. We can also take it as given about how certain agenda driven "inside the palace scoops" will be unleashed.

We already have one mag, defying press ethics and openly in Sofia's camp. And let us not be so naive as to believe that it has done so for altruistic motives and there has not been a relationship between them and Sofia. When push comes to shove, will the members of royal family, excepting the King, trust Sofia not to leak info suitable to her to the press? What happens when there are inevitable disagreements and grievances?

Princess Diana developed a relationship with press much later in her married life and we all know how deeply Charles and Diana public wars hurt the monarchy.

Here Sofia is entering the royal family with established relationship with press promoting her viewpoints. Not a good base.

I truly hope that Sofia really avails of this third chance in life and becomes a figure that respects the position she is going be fulfilling and brings honor to the family.


PS: I know that the opposing side does like to hear view points such as mine. But please do not call me anti-feminist when I have spent much of my life fighting for women. I take that personally.
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  #324  
Old 07-03-2014, 01:08 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Another point: role of her parents.


If what I read is true, her mother told her to go for it when she posed nude/semi-nude while she was 15/16(?)

What kind of parent is that.

If her alleged advise (go for it, you live once) is true then it is easy to see how Sofia could have the value system she did.

I feel sorry for her/
  #325  
Old 07-03-2014, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
Oh, the drama of it all. No one seems to care that the King has had affairs and done some pretty nasty things. No one cares that other kings during these times have also had affairs or such. The British will have a queen that has a pretty ugly past. She will be anointed. This gal with smile for cameras seems like she is trying. As for us here in the states, we still revere President Kennedy and his family, even after all the dirt came out. And Bill Clinton certainly has had some indiscretions, but is the most popular former president here, today. People forgive and forget. Prince Ernst August is obnoxious. And the two princesses of Monaco had very checkered pasts. So cut the silliness. She is a person and he loves her and the world will not end, in a few months no one will care.

I'll make this last comment and will hold my tongue for awhile (promise )

The distinction between all the examples you mentioned above and many more is "personal life" and public/professional life. These royal figures and many more (remember King of Spain Juan Carlos and his alleged 1500 affairs ! ) have shoddy personal lives. But there professional lives have not been built on using their sexual antics to gain fame, and money.

That is the key difference.

Heck, it is to be expected in this day and age that a royal bride will have some naked and/or compromising pictures in her past. Sofie of Wessex did not show her naked breasts to climb the ladder in her public relations career. Letizia did not use her first marriage to climb up the journalism ladder. So on and so forth.

But Sofia did it. Her sexuality was her profession and she used it to get to the right places. Infact, that was her primary skill.

She made this choice consciously, without force, and with alleged backing of her mother.

This in my book, shows a skewed core value-set.

And I have seen nothing in Sofia's behaviour with CP to illustrate that his value-set is a thing of past. Her desire for publicity, constant selling of her relationship with CP to the press, is just a manifestation of that value-set.

All for now
  #326  
Old 07-03-2014, 04:12 AM
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I'm not very familiar with the SRF. But until now I still can't see Sofia as a princess, she's not even a lady in my opinion.

so, will she has the title as the princess of sweden after she married to CP?

I don't know much about Sofia, only that she used to have a nude pictures in the past and she had live together with CP in the past several years. Does anyone knows if she had attend a university before?

So sorry for my bad English
  #327  
Old 07-03-2014, 04:25 AM
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I know that I am very opinionated when it comes to SH, and I will be honest, I don't like her period. When I saw some of those pictures and read articles that her mother said *go for it*, a mother is suppose to guide her daughter in this ugly world of men and she certainly did not. So my gut tells me that SH, when she got introduced to PCP, her mind went to work and she got the ring......I think she is very calculating and street smart and knows the way to get a man and this was a great catch for her. No I can't prove it, it's just my gut/instinct telling me this. I trust my gut feelings, saved me many times.
  #328  
Old 07-03-2014, 04:46 AM
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I believe the remark that her mother encouraged her to do nude pictures is from an old interview with Sofia. But like much of what reality starlets (or anybody else for that matter) say, this may not be the complete truth. The kind of magazines she was interviewed for weren't exactly known for their in-depth articles, a quick/ empty/ witty/ light answer is preferable over a more 'heavy handed' one. In the end these reality stars talk a lot and want to present a certain image of themselves. The magazines that she posed for want the image of a naughty woman, so that is what they got. Note that the encouragement that was spoken about was for a photoshoot for Slitz when she was 22, not the one taken when Sofia was 16.

I really have a hard time believing that a sane parent would encourage a 16y/o daughter to do nude shoots. Esp. since Mrs. Hellqvist seems clever enough, being a politician and all that & she never told (or is required to tell) her side of the story. Her other daughters seem well rooted, they are doing degrees in psychology and philosophy at the Stockholm Univerisity. Mrs. Hellqvist is a private person, so we should not burn her -or her husband- at the stake and assume the worst automatically. We simply don't know the full story -perhaps Sofia's parents encouraged her, perhaps they did not, perhaps they tried to be supportive hoping that that is the best way to guide her through this phase in life. We don't know, and we have no right to know, this is a private matter to those involved.
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  #329  
Old 07-03-2014, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
Oh please stop it. If a woman makes the decision to be a prostitute/glamour model/escort etc that is on her. It's not disrespecting your own body, it's taking matters into your own hands. That is making the choice to do what you want and how you want to achieve what you set out to do. Now if she was forced into it, that's another story but there are plenty of women who made the decision to do the type of work they do and are contributing people.

People need to get over the stigma that every woman who works in an industry related to that of the sex industry, is an unworthy person.

Also, people need to stop it with not willing to give her a chance. Firstly of all, it's not up to you to give her another chance. She is not marrying into your family now is she? Secondly of all, these are two adults who have decided to get married and really start a family/life together. They are not killing anybody nor is that decision affecting anyone in any way. Please cry some more over it.
Some points about it.

- I don't think at all that all women working in sex industry are unworthy persons. Actually, I do know one of them. Although I don't approve at all her job, she is quite close to me. And I can say this : she never said her children the true nature of her job. Her children don't know in what industry their mother is working. That is saying much. She had no other choice than working in sex industry due to life events but she does not see it as a suitable career path for her children.

- A decision to be a prostitute/glamour model/escort is not only on woman's hands. On the contrary, in most of the case, prostitution means women slavery and mafia, and lot of difficulties to escape.

- Exposing a naked body may be seen as the ultimate freedom gained through feminist fight. There are other opinions about it. If my country was a monarchy and a former nude model was to marry into the royal family and become a princess, I can assure you that the strongest disagreement would not come from our local Tea Party but from all the people working with sexual abuses victims. I remember very well a discussion with one of them who talked about her disgust to see a naked girl in every car magazine. She suffered the worst and would be ready to demonstrate and talk with every journalist interested about how promoting nude models is an insult to her sufferings. She is not the only one to see in nudity promotion nothing else than something complying to masculine pulsions. There are studies - not made by bigot researchers - proving clearly the links between promoting nude women pictures and sexual violences and abuses. That is not bigotry. If I were Swedish, I would demonstrate with my friend and say the royal family : "miss Hellqvist, please have a long talk with victims about their feelings on nude women pictures, please come and take part to NGO activities on this matter".
  #330  
Old 07-03-2014, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjkg View Post
I'll make this last comment and will hold my tongue for awhile (promise )

The distinction between all the examples you mentioned above and many more is "personal life" and public/professional life. These royal figures and many more (remember King of Spain Juan Carlos and his alleged 1500 affairs ! ) have shoddy personal lives. But there professional lives have not been built on using their sexual antics to gain fame, and money.

That is the key difference.

Heck, it is to be expected in this day and age that a royal bride will have some naked and/or compromising pictures in her past. Sofie of Wessex did not show her naked breasts to climb the ladder in her public relations career. Letizia did not use her first marriage to climb up the journalism ladder. So on and so forth.

But Sofia did it. Her sexuality was her profession and she used it to get to the right places. Infact, that was her primary skill.

She made this choice consciously, without force, and with alleged backing of her mother.

This in my book, shows a skewed core value-set.

And I have seen nothing in Sofia's behaviour with CP to illustrate that his value-set is a thing of past. Her desire for publicity, constant selling of her relationship with CP to the press, is just a manifestation of that value-set.

All for now
So... people can sleep with as many people as they want, members of royal families can have lovers (either male or female), they can do pretty much whatever they want with whomever they want as long as they are not paid for it?? That’s hypocritical.

People get by on looks all the time. It’s well known good looking people are more popular, get better business deals, better partners, etc. Sex sells everything even royalty. It’s just that most of the time it’s not so blatantly obvious.
  #331  
Old 07-03-2014, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SElizabeth View Post
[I][B]
I know that I am very opinionated when it comes to SH, and I will be honest, I don't like her period. When I saw some of those pictures and read articles that her mother said *go for it*, a mother is suppose to guide her daughter in this ugly world of men and she certainly did not. So my gut tells me that SH, when she got introduced to PCP, her mind went to work and she got the ring......I think she is very calculating and street smart and knows the way to get a man and this was a great catch for her. No I can't prove it, it's just my gut/instinct telling me this. I trust my gut feelings, saved me many times.
Well, at least you admit to being very opiniated and so actually Sofia has to take your rap because her mother failed to do with her daughter what she should have done according to you. Fair enough. Only because someone wasn't guided in the way you deem appropriate, it doesn't mean they should be condemned or ejected.
And "this ugly world of men"? Are all men beasts and women damsels in distress?

Time will tell if your gut feelings are right or wrong this time.
  #332  
Old 07-03-2014, 06:09 AM
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I am a PR-Consultant, and I can asure you, that no company, no diplomatic corps with any standing would ever consider taking s.o. with Sofias past into consideration to let her/him represent them.

It's not about morals; it's not about 'jelousy'. Its about been taken serious, it's about as how we want to be percieved. And it's about that the representative for should represent (!) and not stear the limelight away from the cause / institution / company.

A royal family is nothing less and nothing more than the represantans of their country and their people. And as such shouldn't be too much in the media as 'people' or persons in their own right ; - that is what celebrities are for. To be known for who / what they are.

Of COURSE the media likes to portray members of RF as people / persons - because it sells well. But as the RF are NOT represantatives or payed by the media - it is simply NOT their job!


So why should the swedish people asked to do that? CP can marry whom ever he wishes and live happyly ever after as Mr & Ms Bernadotte. And of course Sofia has a nice smile and a beautiful body, and nows how to pose... (which is part or the problem).
  #333  
Old 07-03-2014, 06:16 AM
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http://svenskdam.se/2014/07/svensk-d...ellqvist-till/

The magazine (Sweden); says no more nasty comments will be allowed!

I think Sofia needs some good friends now in her corner. How about the Duchess of Cambridge, and Princess Charlene of Monaco, who have both been at the end of unkind press stories. I think Sofia needs a big hug, and a kind word. I believe Victoria is a kind and warm person who will offer support to Sofa in the future. I am sure the Queen will help all she can.
  #334  
Old 07-03-2014, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
Well, at least you admit to being very opiniated and so actually Sofia has to take your rap because her mother failed to do with her daughter what she should have done according to you. Fair enough. Only because someone wasn't guided in the way you deem appropriate, it doesn't mean they should be condemned or ejected.
And "this ugly world of men"? Are all men beasts and women damsels in distress?

Time will tell if your gut feelings are right or wrong this time.
A royal family *represents* a country and the people, this isn't something new, royal family are suppose to have this kind of mystic about them, this has been done since the beginning of royal families. They even intermarry to keep the family safe/pure/whatever. In looking at history yes, there are lots of ugly people in royal families and most of them are arranged marriages: case in point, I think Charles and Diana in a way was an arranged marriage, so with this mystic, they need the people/public to keep themselves on the throne. If royal families start having all kinds of people coming into the family and some of them have past that are questionable to say the least, then people are going to start thinking and questioning about the reasons for a royal family. Most people want the royal family to be someone who will represent them around the world and have good standing among the people.
I am not saying that there aren't problems in royal families, yet why go looking for problems. In time most royal families will come to an end, and there will be very few left. In this day and age, people are calling for a republic even if they don't know what a republic is. They get the idea that a republic will solve all the problems, so ends the royal family, whether it's by the hardship of the people or by the self destruction of the royal family itself.
I honestly don't know of or think there is a family out there that would really want their son to bring SH home as bride, into the family whether they are royal or not. Most mothers want their son to marry a nice girl, someone who will fit into a family(this isn't about doing royal functions), someone who will be welcome buy all members of the family. There are traditions in a family that can go on for generations, and the bride should fit in. We don't know really how the Swedish royal family feels about SH, pictures have been know to lie, smiles don't reach the eyes, body language tells stories, so no one here knows for sure how KCG and QS and the rest of them think. From what I have read is that KCG does and has favored his son over his daughters, (the old world thinking again that a son is better then a daughter), being an old man I would guess that is his view, PCP will get anything and everything he wants from his father, and SH is what he wants. How is this going to effect the royal family standing among the rest of the royal families in the world, don't even want to go there........I can imagine some are having a large chuckle when they heard, a porn model marrying into a the SRF......what next?
And Skippy, something you should know about me, I am not afraid to say what I feel or admit that I am an ole oppionated lady. And as for the term *Ugly world of men*, that comes from reading all those darn history books and life's experiences, the male species has destroyed more on this earth then a hundred women ever could. The wars, the rapes, the horror that entire races of people that have been destroyed, the crimes of even today and the suffering, this is all done by men, men control this world, the majority of our world leaders are men, and just take a darn good look at what this world looks like, not a very nice nor safe place most of the time for millions of people.
  #335  
Old 07-03-2014, 07:09 AM
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Honestly, what can the SRF do? CG is in no position to tell his son off (given his own shortcomings in the moral department), neither is Silvia. CP is 35 and the second child, he will come nowhere near the throne. The person you chose to live with is your business and your business alone, from a private perspective. For public persons representing a country its a different matter. Having said that, CG would never take away his son's title, he is who he is, and I do not think that CP would honestly consider becoming 'Mr Bernadotte'. I hope they do not make Sofia HRH Princess of Sweden but everybody has to put up with the rest.
It won't serve the monarchy idea that the next best glamour model can become a princess but I think long-term, monarchy is dated and on the way out anyway. Maybe Estelle will be Queen in 40 years, but after that? Sofia may make the decline a bit faster.
  #336  
Old 07-03-2014, 07:10 AM
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SDT1428_HiResFiles

Next year will be very exciting. I think it will be the only Royal Wedding of 2015.

I think people used her, and I blame them, not her, as they took advantage of her good nature. She said they kept calling her, (she said in an interview). I can't help liking her, and to me, she comes across as very vulnerable. Now she has a Prince, no less, to protect her.
  #337  
Old 07-03-2014, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SElizabeth View Post
A royal family *represents* a country and the people, this isn't something new, royal family are suppose to have this kind of mystic about them, this has been done since the beginning of royal families. They even intermarry to keep the family safe/pure/whatever. In looking at history yes, there are lots of ugly people in royal families and most of them are arranged marriages: case in point, I think Charles and Diana in a way was an arranged marriage, so with this mystic, they need the people/public to keep themselves on the throne. If royal families start having all kinds of people coming into the family and some of them have past that are questionable to say the least, then people are going to start thinking and questioning about the reasons for a royal family. Most people want the royal family to be someone who will represent them around the world and have good standing among the people.
I am not saying that there aren't problems in royal families, yet why go looking for problems. In time most royal families will come to an end, and there will be very few left. In this day and age, people are calling for a republic even if they don't know what a republic is. They get the idea that a republic will solve all the problems, so ends the royal family, whether it's by the hardship of the people or by the self destruction of the royal family itself.
I honestly don't know of or think there is a family out there that would really want their son to bring SH home as bride, into the family whether they are royal or not. Most mothers want their son to marry a nice girl, someone who will fit into a family(this isn't about doing royal functions), someone who will be welcome buy all members of the family. There are traditions in a family that can go on for generations, and the bride should fit in. We don't know really how the Swedish royal family feels about SH, pictures have been know to lie, smiles don't reach the eyes, body language tells stories, so no one here knows for sure how KCG and QS and the rest of them think. From what I have read is that KCG does and has favored his son over his daughters, (the old world thinking again that a son is better then a daughter), being an old man I would guess that is his view, PCP will get anything and everything he wants from his father, and SH is what he wants. How is this going to effect the royal family standing among the rest of the royal families in the world, don't even want to go there........I can imagine some are having a large chuckle when they heard, a porn model marrying into a the SRF......what next?
And Skippy, something you should know about me, I am not afraid to say what I feel or admit that I am an ole oppionated lady. And as for the term *Ugly world of men*, that comes from reading all those darn history books and life's experiences, the male species has destroyed more on this earth then a hundred women ever could. The wars, the rapes, the horror that entire races of people that have been destroyed, the crimes of even today and the suffering, this is all done by men, men control this world, the majority of our world leaders are men, and just take a darn good look at what this world looks like, not a very nice nor safe place most of the time for millions of people.
I didn't mean that you are unallowed to say what you feel; I only said that your way of expressing it goes -imo- very far and your post does acknowledge the feeling I got from your posts.
I don't feel the need to either go with or against you. Your opinion is yours and mine is mine.
I only hope that the part about "ugly world of men" wasn't meant in a belittling way because I see and hear plenty of things to have a worldwide view. I just don't see it the way you do.
  #338  
Old 07-03-2014, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Honestly, what can the SRF do? CG is in no position to tell his son off (given his own shortcomings in the moral department), neither is Silvia. CP is 35 and the second child, he will come nowhere near the throne. The person you chose to live with is your business and your business alone, from a private perspective. For public persons representing a country its a different matter. Having said that, CG would never take away his son's title, he is who he is, and I do not think that CP would honestly consider becoming 'Mr Bernadotte'. I hope they do not make Sofia HRH Princess of Sweden but everybody has to put up with the rest.
It won't serve the monarchy idea that the next best glamour model can become a princess but I think long-term, monarchy is dated and on the way out anyway. Maybe Estelle will be Queen in 40 years, but after that? Sofia may make the decline a bit faster.
In that respect monarchies have changed a looong time ago.
  #339  
Old 07-03-2014, 08:52 AM
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Does anyone else find themselves really hoping that Victoria and Daniel produce a few more children?


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  #340  
Old 07-03-2014, 09:03 AM
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oh yes, and very fast - and the more, the better :)
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