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  #301  
Old 07-02-2014, 03:52 PM
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It's clear that everyone is entitled to a second chance, unless you're Sofia Hellqvist. And everyone can be sincere, unless you're Sofia Hellqvist.

The girl has made some terrible choices on her past, but she's "clean" for almost a decade now. Since then, she has dedicated herself to charity work and to build a future with the man she loves.

But who cares? Let's judge and condemn her forever, we're armchairs judges hidden by usernames and avatars, our trash is well hidden. Her charity work is not sincere, she just wants to look nice. Oh, and "she loves the press", perhaps she should be unsympathetic so you'd be able to blame her for being unsympathetic.

I suppose it's quite difficult to live such a perfect life as the ones of some of the posters here, I can't imagine how they manage to live in such a sinful world. I prefer to live my imperfect life, believing in regret and forgiveness.
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Old 07-02-2014, 03:55 PM
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It's clear that everyone is entitled to a second chance, unless you're Sofia Hellqvist. And everyone can be sincere, unless you're Sofia Hellqvist.

The girl has made some terrible choices on her past, but she's "clean" for almost a decade now. Since then, she has dedicated herself to charity work and to build a future with the man she loves.

But who cares? Let's judge and condemn her forever, we're armchairs judges hidden by usernames and avatars, our trash is well hidden. Her charity work is not sincere, she just wants to look nice. Oh, and "she loves the press", perhaps she should be unsympathetic so you'd be able to blame her for being unsympathetic.

I suppose it's quite difficult to live such a perfect life as the ones of some the posters here, I can't imagine how they manage to live in such a sinful world. I prefer to live my imperfect life, believing in regret and forgiveness.
Sofia has got her second chance when she met her mentor Barbro Ehnbom, who made her suitable to better circles that she had been used to. She got another work, in a charity business. No one has denied the second chance, she has already got it. This would be her third chance.
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  #303  
Old 07-02-2014, 03:57 PM
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Sofia has got her second chance when she met her mentor Barbro Ehnbom, who made her suitable to better circles that she had been used to. She got another work, in a charity business. This would be her third chance.
I see nothing wrong with her since her second chance.
  #304  
Old 07-02-2014, 04:11 PM
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And this applies only for Sofia does it? They have allowed other royals, not just Swedish, to be bullied for years.
Yes, it applies only for Sofia.
A long time ago Svensk Damtidning was a good magazine, now it just a gossip magazine. Their reporter ┼sa B÷nnelyche wrote in March 2010, that queen Silvia is very ill, she has Alzheimer. Well, Svensk Damtidning had to apologize from the queen and B÷nnelyche was suspended from royal reporting for some time. The members of the royal family meet reporters of Svensk Damtidning at their work duties and talk with them like with all the reporters.

Svensk Damtidning has also during the years bullied Letizia. She is thin, does she have anorexia, why her hair is like that, she looks unhappy, is everything well with their marriage. Letizia and Madeleine are the royals of whom they write a lot of negative articles. Although now when Letizia became queen, they have changed the tone in their articles.
  #305  
Old 07-02-2014, 04:24 PM
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Here is something I hope - I hope that Sofia can come out now, - and use her new position to create something positive from her past experiences.

I think if she can admit - hey I was young, I did something stupid. It would go a long way.

She is going to be a public figure that a lot of girls look up too. She should use that platform to teach them that selling their bodies in that way - disrespecting themselves in that way is wrong.

Right or wrong..that is what I hope.
  #306  
Old 07-02-2014, 05:05 PM
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Here is something I hope - I hope that Sofia can come out now, - and use her new position to create something positive from her past experiences.

I think if she can admit - hey I was young, I did something stupid. It would go a long way.

She is going to be a public figure that a lot of girls look up too. She should use that platform to teach them that selling their bodies in that way - disrespecting themselves in that way is wrong.

Right or wrong..that is what I hope.
Oh please stop it. If a woman makes the decision to be a prostitute/glamour model/escort etc that is on her. It's not disrespecting your own body, it's taking matters into your own hands. That is making the choice to do what you want and how you want to achieve what you set out to do. Now if she was forced into it, that's another story but there are plenty of women who made the decision to do the type of work they do and are contributing people.

People need to get over the stigma that every woman who works in an industry related to that of the sex industry, is an unworthy person.

Also, people need to stop it with not willing to give her a chance. Firstly of all, it's not up to you to give her another chance. She is not marrying into your family now is she? Secondly of all, these are two adults who have decided to get married and really start a family/life together. They are not killing anybody nor is that decision affecting anyone in any way. Please cry some more over it.
  #307  
Old 07-02-2014, 05:10 PM
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Oh please stop it. If a woman makes the decision to be a prostitute/glamour model/escort etc that is on her. It's not disrespecting your own body, it's taking matters into your own hands. That is making the choice to do what you want and how you want to achieve what you set out to do. Now if she was forced into it, that's another story but there are plenty of women who made the decision to do the type of work they do and are contributing people.



People need to get over the stigma that every woman who works in an industry related to that of the sex industry, is an unworthy person.



Also, people need to stop it with not willing to give her a chance. Firstly of all, it's not up to you to give her another chance. She is not marrying into your family now is she? Secondly of all, these are two adults who have decided to get married and really start a family/life together. They are not killing anybody nor is that decision affecting anyone in any way. Please cry some more over it.

I kind of want to give this post a standing ovation. I am so over the pious slut-shaming and the narrative that a woman becomes an irredeemable, broken human being if she poses nude.

It's far more damaging to young women to be told that not being "chaste" makes them broken and worthless than it ever could be to have Sofia as a princess.




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  #308  
Old 07-02-2014, 05:15 PM
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I don't understand what you mean. Since we in Finland don't have our own royal family, we have always felt like the swedish royal family is like our own. I have followed the swedish royal family since the king and queen got married. I think that to become a member of the royal family, or a member of the Head of State, the person must be one people can respect and look up to. And miss Hellqvist certainly isn't like that, at least to me. People say she made a mistake when she was young. She didn't make a mistake, she had a way of life, in which the main goal was to get famous and get publicity as much as possible by posing in photos and attending a reality show and so on. That lasted about 8 years. Then she met Carl Philip, and her main goal was still to get famous. After they started dating she decided that it is good to get involved in charity business, because queen Silvia has started many charity organisations. I think that she hasn't changed at all essentially, just bought a lot of expensive clothes and learned how to do a good make up. At least her love for the press and publicity hasn't changed a bit.

And about Sofia and her family, if I was the king or queen, I wouldn't want my grandchildren to have other grandparents, who allowed their daughter to pose in provocative photos when she was a minor and urged her to pose in Slitz. I wonder what queen Silvia thinks about that, since she has done so much for the children getting sexually abused and talked about trafficking.
What I mean is that you sound so fierce in your dislike of her that, in my opinion, it bothers on hatred and a hostile attitude towards her - as in how dare she enter the Royal Family that you have followed for so many years. She doesn't have the right to enter it and she has to prove to you personally that she does have good qualities and is worthy of a married position next to Prince Carl Philip. If you would ever allowe her to prove it, that is, which I doubt very much. I think that you see her as an intruder.

And I get the idea that since you dislike her so much, you are trying to look for signals/information/gestures from the Royal Family that would indicate that you are not alone in your feelings. I get this idea from other posters as well. If it is so in your case, I think you have a very long road ahead. If it is not so, then I am wrong.

I do understand that, with a long history of following a particular royal family that may even feel a bit like your own family after such an extended time, that not every chosen partner will evoke cheers and hurrahs, but your opinion (along with SElizabeth's) on Sofia Hellqvist goes - again, in my opinion - very, very far.

That is what I meant with my original comment.
  #309  
Old 07-02-2014, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Cris M View Post
It's clear that everyone is entitled to a second chance, unless you're Sofia Hellqvist. And everyone can be sincere, unless you're Sofia Hellqvist.

The girl has made some terrible choices on her past, but she's "clean" for almost a decade now. Since then, she has dedicated herself to charity work and to build a future with the man she loves.

But who cares? Let's judge and condemn her forever, we're armchairs judges hidden by usernames and avatars, our trash is well hidden. Her charity work is not sincere, she just wants to look nice. Oh, and "she loves the press", perhaps she should be unsympathetic so you'd be able to blame her for being unsympathetic.

I suppose it's quite difficult to live such a perfect life as the ones of some of the posters here, I can't imagine how they manage to live in such a sinful world. I prefer to live my imperfect life, believing in regret and forgiveness.
I am afraid that you are making a caricature out of the objections that some people have. I think that it is legitemate to ask some questions. I have listed some points that I found striking :

- if with 'clean' you mean that she stopped posing for pictures in the nude, you have the time span wrong. The last posing was 6-7? years ago. Not that it matters much, posing in the nude is not illegal, neither is appearing naked in magazines (in most countries that is). But those repeated choices over an extended period of 10 years or so make some people wonder if her values about this issue makes her an appropriate person to represent a country. Not an odd idea IMO.

- 'she loves the press': she does. If you have followed her CE thread over the years you must have seen this too. She often talks to the press, very often. And the press loves her. Now if that is a good or a bad thing is open for debate of course. I don't like unofficial partners of any royal talking to the press, but you might like it, and many others will.

- Why is it 'condamning' if people just say, we don't think she is suited for this particular position? Let's be honest, she is far from an ideal candidate for representing Sweden. If the RF would be a company she would never in a million years be hired for this particular 'job'. But of course it isn't only a company, but also a family. So that changed the matter. Still, it is legitemate to wonder why on earth she is qualified for this position, esp. if you are a Swede and paying tax. It is true that our skeletons are safely hidden, at least on this forum, but AFAIK none of us is seeking a position in the public eye, representing a country. The RF serves as a symbol, and if the symbol is something that the country does not want to be associated with, that may cause problems. It happened in many cases btw, not in this one in particular.

- about being perfect: very few actually mentioned perfection, nobody IIRC. She doesn't need to be perfect, nobody is.

- your remark 'perhaps she should be unpleasant to the press' seems an awnser to no particular issue. Nobody wants her to be unpleasant. But posing for minutes for the press while the RF does not, seems odd. Esp. since the previous and present partners of the princesses (and Emma Pernald) never posed for the press. Neither did most other royal partners, apart from Charlene (but Monaco is a completely different story). Not that she should be stoned for doing it, but it adds to an impression that people have. Which has a certain logic.

- about (not) being sincere: people gave a lot of reasons why they think that she wasn't (or isn't). Often they just use simple facts and exposed lies. Fact is that one of her ambitions was to seek fame. Why else would she pose for magazines, go to reality shows, brag about kisses with porn actresses etc? Since she was looking for fame, some think that it gives the impression that that may have been a motivation for her present relationship. Not an absurd logic I would say, although it is very well possible that she was looking for fame ßnd started this relationship for honest reasons.

- about the charity: fact is that she joined it after she met the prince. Her interest may or may not have been sincire. The logic that after meeting the prince this was her way to make her acceptable to the public is not farfetched. But that doesn't exclude her sincerity about the matter perse.

Concluding: the argument why she is not suitable has a certain logic, there are certainly a lot of questions. The argument why she will be a suitable princess fails most logic to me. As it mainly seems to consist of the arguments "you are biased, jealous and sexist, people can change, why does it matter, they are in love, and why do you care anyway?'. Not the strongest points.

Of course she is not the devil in sheeps clothes either. Most mistakes with her charity seemed more due to amateurism -as happens with many new organisations- of do-gooders than intentional harm. And not all gestures and moves she makes are a sign of some evil part in her character: I didn't see anything wrong in her showing of her ring to the press f.e. I am also happy that she did not make a tearful apology to the press about her wild past, it was not needed as she did nothing illegal. The white washing of her cv is not that shocking either. Most people adapt their resume if they apply for a job, why not Sofia. But of course the gaps in the cv are obvious as we have followed the information of various magazines and newspapers over the years (much of the information coming form Sofia herself btw). She is also not alone in damaging the institute, many have done it in the past and many will do it in the future. Her father-in-law being one of the more recent examples. This doesn't mean that with time, things can not alter of course. CG may recover from his exposed incidents, Sofia may prove to be an asset. Who knows?

I wish them all the best on a personal level. But if she would be joining my own RF I would be sprinting to the office of the republican movement to enlist. I don't want my country to be represented by people who I think do not stand for some core values in our society (with that I do not mean the nude pictures, about which I do not care all that much since it was indeed in the past). Her entry in the RF also makes it painfully obvious that the system of a monarchy is outdated. An anachronism to which I am attached and a fact which I try to ignore, but an anachronism nontheless.

What I find the most irritating about this matter is not so much Sofia herself -she may be a lovely woman, I don't know her- but the articles in the press which just make up a fairy tale. While, by following the information posted on this forum over the years, it is obvious that they lie, over and over again, and they have done so for years. I also follow my own press in other aspects, and it is difficult not to become a cynic about the way the press deals with things. In the end it is a business.

Anyway, I am sure that with the years the opinions wil soften. Things will be forgotten, they always are.
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  #310  
Old 07-02-2014, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
I kind of want to give this post a standing ovation. I am so over the pious slut-shaming and the narrative that a woman becomes an irredeemable, broken human being if she poses nude.

It's far more damaging to young women to be told that not being "chaste" makes them broken and worthless than it ever could be to have Sofia as a princess.




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I'm glad there are a few more people here who can reason with an open mind. We should tell young girls/women to take their sexuality into their own hands and embrace it. Not to be controlled by what society/conservative people deem right/wrong and make of it what you feel makes you happy. And if that decision makes you cringe a little a decade later? Well, take responsibility, own up to it and make the changes you feel are needed.

Posing nude does not define a character nor a life. It does not make her unworthy of anyone's affection or love. Let's not pretend here that CP is the greatest man on earth or that her father in law has remained faithful in his marriage (give me a break and a bucket). Seems like most of the people in the Bernadotte family have no room to judge, nor anyone else.
  #311  
Old 07-02-2014, 06:00 PM
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Marengo,

If the last nude picture was taken 6-7 years ago, then it was "almost a decade" ago, as I said.

I don't think she'd be suitable for a Prince if she was still posing naked, but she has changed, she's now dedicating herself to charity. I even think she can be a role model, proving that doesn't matter what you've done, you can always change and start a new life.

Maybe she should learn to behave more properly with the press, but I see no problem with her answering questions - unless the answers put her or the Royal Family in a bad situation - and posing to pictures. People often say that some royals should be more sympathetic towards the press, but Sofia - a royal-to-be - is being criticized for doing that.

I have no problem with people politely saying they don't think she's suitable for whatever reasons, my problem is with the repetitive comments trying to imply she's a farce, that no one like her, that she and Prince Carl Philip as hangers-one and that she deserves no recognition for her good deeds. Perhaps it's a forum policy to allow or ignore these kind of comments depending on the person.
  #312  
Old 07-02-2014, 06:29 PM
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No, the TRF policy has been the same for years. If you have problems with posts you can report them. Still, people are entitled to their opinions and so far very few posts from this thread were reported. TRF does not encourage namecalling or baseless gossip, but it certainly does not want to end up like the online part of Svensk Damtidning where only 1 opinion is allowed to be heard.

Re: press and questions -> the policy in Sweden is more open than in most other monarchies. I can't imagine QEII lowering herself to awnser some idiotic questions on the level of SD. But in Sofia's case the questions are usually empty and shallow, hence are better left unreplied. It 'lowers' royalty to the levels of D-list celebrities. But it is great for the gossip magazines, as they have another page filled.
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  #313  
Old 07-02-2014, 06:36 PM
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Sofia has got her second chance when she met her mentor Barbro Ehnbom, who made her suitable to better circles that she had been used to. She got another work, in a charity business. No one has denied the second chance, she has already got it. This would be her third chance.
I'd also like to know how she blew this second chance that she got with Barbro Ehnbom? I haven't heard anything about it.
  #314  
Old 07-02-2014, 06:54 PM
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Sometimes I wonder if posters who are saying Sofia "just" posed nude are being disingenuous?

I certainly wouldn't care if that's all that was involved. The human body is a beautiful creation, and Sofia's in particular is lovely.

It's what she is doing while she is in the nude that I find objectionable. I saw one photo over the weekend where she was semi-nude with her face buried in the lap of some middle-aged gentleman.

If it's "slut shaming" to say that I am surprised that the king and queen of Sweden don't mind someone like that marrying into and representing their family then....oh well!
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  #315  
Old 07-02-2014, 07:04 PM
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Oh, the drama of it all. No one seems to care that the King has had affairs and done some pretty nasty things. No one cares that other kings during these times have also had affairs or such. The British will have a queen that has a pretty ugly past. She will be anointed. This gal with smile for cameras seems like she is trying. As for us here in the states, we still revere President Kennedy and his family, even after all the dirt came out. And Bill Clinton certainly has had some indiscretions, but is the most popular former president here, today. People forgive and forget. Prince Ernst August is obnoxious. And the two princesses of Monaco had very checkered pasts. So cut the silliness. She is a person and he loves her and the world will not end, in a few months no one will care.
  #316  
Old 07-02-2014, 07:05 PM
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I'd also like to know how she blew this second chance that she got with Barbro Ehnbom? I haven't heard anything about it.
AFAIK they are still on friendly terms, they recently posed together for a picture at an event at least.
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Old 07-02-2014, 07:09 PM
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If a woman makes the decision to be a prostitute/glamour model/escort etc that is on her. It's not disrespecting your own body, it's taking matters into your own hands.
My issue with this discussion is that so many of you think you can make CP's decision for him.
So she was a wild child. We can all find examples of male royals being wild children. Yet no one sets limits to whom these men can marry. Seriously, I think this is a great match from that perspective. If you paired CP up with someone unlike him, you would be inviting trouble (think back a bit). This is just my opinion, but I don't think princesses should be held to different standards than princes.
I think CP knows and likes his choice.
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Old 07-02-2014, 07:23 PM
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I was looking forward to reading this week's Point de Vue cover story on the engagement, instead they made the Prince and Princess of Monaco and the baptism of Raphael El Maleh this week's cover, and relegated the Swedish Royal engagement to the back pages. They didn't give Carl-Philip and Sofia even a tiny photo on the cover.

Both Victoria/Daniel and Madeleine/Chris got cover stories. Carl-Philip is the only son, for goodness sake! If that isn't a snub I don't know what is. Hopefully they will at least give them a wedding cover.
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Old 07-02-2014, 10:15 PM
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Oh, that's ridiculous.

Yes, she has taken some courses and received education. There's nothing to hide, she has just listed all the courses she has taken. But I suppose that's not enough for you.

And give us a break with this taxpayer money nonsense. Are you a specialist in Swedish taxpayer money? Do you know the exact amount of money Prince Carl Philip receive? Can you prove any of your allegations or are you just throwing all the nonsenses your mind can think about on a couple you don't like for no logical reason?
Where do you think the royal family gets it's money, from the *taxpayer* and that is the darn truth, plain and simple..........
You think PCP really works, say a 9/5 to job......
I don't have to prove anything and I am not saying anything that isn't a fact, written and reported in the media. How does the king and Queen live in the huge palace and not have money, their money comes from the
*TAXPAYER*, heck the media complains about the cost of the security for his daughter's wedding, the cost that the people paid for.........
  #320  
Old 07-02-2014, 10:19 PM
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She may come to surprise and become as popular as Diana was in England.


Seriously, though, we have to give u a chance for her to show you how it's going to be your job within the Royal family.
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