Discussion about Sofia Hellqvist's Past & Future Role in the Royal Family

[LadyFinn]

Now, we know Sofia has received some kind university education. People can't claim she has no education at all, so they came with the "brilliant" argument: "The CV has gaps". What a nonsense.

Oh, and she uses her royal connections to promote charity! What a crime! Wait, royals all over the world uses their royal status and their connections to promote charity. I suppose the Sofia Haters will say that all charity should be stopped. That's their logic.

Gaps at Sofia's CV aren't nonsense. The least one can expect from a person who gets married with a member of the royal family, is that that person has in her adulthood either studied or worked so that she can have provided herself with her own salary. The CV which the court gave with the engagement press release tells that Sofia was born and the CV continues from 2006 when Sofia went to New York. There is no mention that any of her studies happened at early 2000's, but perhaps she graduated from upper secondary school, it must have happened in 2003.
But if she marries Carl Philip, hopefully the court makes a proper CV with all the information to the court website.

No, I don't say that the royals should stop their charity work. But Sofia hasn't been a royal and isn't that yet.

 

[Baron Brockdorf]

Look, specifically, this royal family, The Bernadottes, are not royal to begin with. Their founding father was a Marshall in the French Army and was born in a small town of Pau. His wife, Desiree Clary, was the daughter of a silk merchant. They did fine. It really doesn't matter. Many who graduate from prestigious schools go on to do very mundane things and many who went to ordinary schools succeed beyond imagination. Bill Gates never went to college. Steve Jobs started his projects in his garage. President Truman never went to college and he was a bright man. George W. went to Harvard and Yale and is a fool. Camilla never worked, except a short time and lived fine and became a famous mistress and will be Queen. They are young and happy and in love. That is the best thing. They will do well.

They are blood royals....Jean Baptiste Bernadotte May not have been royal...but many bernadotte princes married Vasa princesses such as Josefina of Leuchtenburg and Victoria of Baden in fact they were known as the Vasa Princesses at court...thus Carl Gustaf and his children can trace their lineage at least 600 years

 

[wok_kym]

I am not one that has posted here against Sophia, but I cannot understand why some are saying since we're women we need to support sophia or that since we don't like her past we must be all saints.
I mean, it's not being a woman or a man, but liking something or not.
Now, I'm not her fan, but I don't care about Prince Carl Philip to be horrified, surely I don't like her past and the choices she makes nor her career with Project Playground.
However, I'm happy Prince Carl Philip gets to marry who he want!
I'd clearly prefer her not to become Princess because she doesn't seem a good representative for the Swedish people as a princess should be: I just cannot see her on the same level of other princesses

*waits for backlash*

 

[Cris M]

Gaps at Sofia's CV aren't nonsense. The least one can expect from a person who gets married with a member of the royal family, is that that person has in her adulthood either studied or worked so that she can have provided herself with her own salary. The CV which the court gave with the engagement press release tells that Sofia was born and the CV continues from 2006 when Sofia went to New York. There is no mention that any of her studies happened at early 2000's, but perhaps she graduated from upper secondary school, it must have happened in 2003.
But if she marries Carl Philip, hopefully the court makes a proper CV with all the information to the court website.

No, I don't say that the royals should stop their charity work. But Sofia hasn't been a royal and isn't that yet.

Yes, it's nonsense. Education is a very important and wonderful thing, but it's not all that matters. I know we shouldn't make comparisons to other royals, but a late Princess who was not well educated is almost worshiped by people here. The fact is that one does not need to be university educated to do good work.

Sofia Hellqvist may not have the best CV in the world, but she's trying to make a difference with her charity work. And everyone - royal or commoner - uses connections to promote charities, but you only Sofia should be condemned because of that.

Sofia has committed a lot of mistakes on her past, but she has changed since. A lot of years has passed since she has posed or participated in a reality show. It's seems everyone but Sofia can change. People who want to judge and condemn her forever have no morals, they are just bitter hypocrites.

 

[Al_bina]

Swedish royals and their spouses/partners |Blogs•Spletnik.ru

Ms Helqvist seems to be accepted by Prince Carl Philip's sisters. The photo is dated July 2012. The original source is ru-royalty.livejournal.com

 

[Cris M]

Swedish royals and their spouses/partners |Blogs•Spletnik.ru

Ms Helqvist seems to be accpeted by Prince Carl Philip's sisters. The photo is dated July 2012.The original source is ru-royalty.livejournal.com

I'm sure someone here will say The King forced Crown Princess Victoria and Princess Madeline to pose for this picture, in order to pretend they like Sofia, because it's "obviously" they hate their brother's future wife.

 

[Esmerelda]

Bit off topic, has there been a formal announcement of any future title? Chris refused it and Jonas was going to be duke not prince..

 

[Dman]

Bit off topic, has there been a formal announcement of any future title? Chris refused it and Jonas was going to be duke not prince..

I don't believe anything has been announced yet.

 

[sesa]

Here is an odd thought: Maybe they (the RF) see this as a 2nd chance so to speak, or more of a "blank slate" if you will. Maybe they plan on sending her to "Princess School" like they did for Diana, Mary and Letizia? I say blank slate, as they can mold her into what they want and expect out of the wife of a Prince??? They can teach her how to deal with the press correctly, do more good work with more charities, expand and get more involved with her current charity and how to use her status as a positive role model for young ladies. How to own up to her past, but do it with decorum. CP does not have such a great reputation either. Maybe together, they can help rebuild each other's reputation for the better and turn out to be an asset to the RF???!!!!
I don't condone what she did in her early years, but the girl made a living for herself. And at the time, it was just for herself. she could not have possible seen that she would be dating/marrying a prince in her future. As for her education? Some people are street smart and not book smart. Maybe university was just not her thing, but that does not say she is uneducated. She is educated, just in a different way. Some people make mistakes and they learn from them. maybe this is what she has done. As for the RF lowering their expectations for spouses, it seems there are too many examples of royalty marrying for the wrong reasons, and maybe they do not want history to repeat itself in their generation.
Who knows!!! after reading the last 2 pgs of this thread, my thoughts started wondering and this is what my tiny little brain was thinking! Just so much hulla ballo over a simple girl!

 

[SElizabeth]

Yes the CV has gaps, but my point was that you can't claim that she doesn't have any education at all. It would be really easy to check and see if she has attended the courses and so she must have taken them. I'm sure that it would probably quite easy to find otu what grades she got as well, at least for the courses she took in Stockholm.

She has taken some courses.......and so she has had some education. Okay if that is the case then I am a professor in Ancient Egypt from the University that I took courses in, the University of Chicago and the Oriental Institute which is a very famous college for it's studies, check it on line and weep.......give me a break, anybody can take a course and add it to their CV and that doesn't mean squat. I am not a professor then she has graduated from college and I don't need something to lie about on my CV, she does. She is just whitewashing her image and trying to fool people into thinking that she has done something important in life, charity work or whatever. It will catch up with her and the court is stupid and foolish and ignorant to white wash her CV......most people can see through this and why in the heck lie about it.........do what MM did, admit your mistakes in public, come to the table with some compassion and understanding and tell the darn truth......then people would have more respect for her and then attitudes would change. She is getting a great lifestyle all paid for by hard working people who will and do have so much less then she has today.......that is injustice! She hasn't worked for a darn dime and in my opinion never has the prince.

 

[LadyFinn]

A view to Sofia posing in Slitz:

In 2006 swedish TV-channel TV4 meteorologist Tone Bekkestad was suspended from her post after she had posed for Slitz.
- The images don't fit with what we in TV4 want to stand for. This is not a punishment but a credibility issue to the viewers, said the channel's spokeswoman Kinna Bellander.
Tone Bekkested was suspended for three months.
Resumé Resumé avslöjar Tone Bekkestad avstängd från TV4

 

[wok_kym]

A view to Sofia posing in Slitz:

In 2006 swedish TV-channel TV4 meteorologist Tone Bekkestad was suspended from her post after she had posed for Slitz.
- The images don't fit with what we in TV4 want to stand for. This is not a punishment but a credibility issue to the viewers, said the channel's spokeswoman Kinna Bellander.
Tone Bekkested was suspended for three months.
Resumé Resumé avslöjar Tone Bekkestad avstängd från TV4

That is indeed interesting! I found really interesting that Duc_et_Pair compared her to Ms Chelsea Clinton. In that contest of work, it would be equally shocking if a non royal or a woman who's not marrying a royal would behave like Sophia.
Therefor she shouldn't be princess, just "wife of"

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

As we know that Jonas would not have been styled Prince of Sweden, I do not expect Sofia to be styled Princess of Sweden. It would not be called for since Chris declined a title for himself (what Sofia certainly wouldn't do) and the example Jonas shows that the spouses of the heir-siblings should not become HRH's. It's a wrong signal. My guess is that Sofia will become Duchess of Värmland, fair enough, and not a Princess of Sweden.

 

[Tilia C.]

I do think that the SRF are in a rather difficult situation with Sofia, because they need CP to stay on board. They may be shocked his choice, but a family rupture because of his choice of wife would be even worse than accepting her and trying to make the best out of a given situation. The popularity of the King was very low after his sex scandal. Fortunately for the family both Victoria and Daniel were very popular and even loved. But these two can’t shoulder the burden all alone. With Madeleine most likely wanting to stay in NY, Carl Philip had to be kept close so that he will be able to support his sister in times to come.

CP is in love with her and determined to share his live with her, and there are few things that can prevent a Bernadotte from making his or her own choices in that respect. The King and Queen would know their own son good enough to know that they could’t destroy the relationship between him and Sofia. And what kind of moral standing did the King have after that scandal around his lover, sex parties and socializing with an alleged criminal? What could he have told his son about proper behavior and decorum? Especially during that time of crises the monarchy needed to upkeep the image of an intact family, and family rows because of an un-liked girl friend would have been catastrophic for the monarchy.

I believe that the King and Queen might therefore have started early to show acceptance of CP’s girlfriend. They started out with pics from their private holiday in the Mediterranean and continued to acknowledgements from the press department and invitations to high profile family events. Imho, it was drawn out scheme to let her appear more acceptable and prepare for an eventual engagement. Fortunately for them the Swedish press helped a lot in that PR gig, they simply loved the headlines that Sofia gave them.

So that is why I am convinced that Sofia will share in CP’s titles and will be a full member of the Royal House, sitting on stage at the Nobels and everything. With some good luck the press will keep up their positive advance to her for a while. At least the upcoming wedding will give them ample headlines to sell, and if kids arrive soon there will be even more positive things for them to write about. But they shouldn’t feel too safe, the press can turn around any time.

 

[xenobia]

As we know that Jonas would not have been styled Prince of Sweden, I do not expect Sofia to be styled Princess of Sweden. It would not be called for since Chris declined a title for himself (what Sofia certainly wouldn't do) and the example Jonas shows that the spouses of the heir-siblings should not become HRH's. It's a wrong signal. My guess is that Sofia will become Duchess of Värmland, fair enough, and not a Princess of Sweden.

Normally I would agree with you But I'm not sure what will happen, for two reasons.

Madeleine is out of the picture, as I see it. Yes, her daughter is a HRH, but I think that's something that the king decided. They needed a spare in the royal family. Madeleine obviously isn't interested in the royal life here in Sweden. She want's to be Mrs O'Neill in the USA. I guess she will show up on the national day celebrations and Nobel prize awards most years, but that's it.

This means that the king and queen, along with Victoria and Daniel, are the only working royals. The kings sister Christina does help out sometimes, but she's also getting older (turned 70 last year) and can't be expected to do that many royal duties in the future. If Victoria and Daniel have more childern - which I think they want to - they probably want and need to slow down for a period of time while the child/children are smaller.

So... who can fill the place on the royal scene? The natural answer is Carl Philip and Sofia. So in short: Madeleines in the US and Victoria might have more Children. This paves the way for Sofia. I don't know if she will become HRH or not, but I think that we will se Carl Philip and Sofia taking a bigger role in the royal family in the future.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Bit off topic, has there been a formal announcement of any future title? Chris refused it and Jonas was going to be duke not prince..

Jonas would have been a Duke consort,Princess Madeleine held the title .

 

[LadyFinn]

As we know that Jonas would not have been styled Prince of Sweden, I do not expect Sofia to be styled Princess of Sweden. It would not be called for since Chris declined a title for himself (what Sofia certainly wouldn't do) and the example Jonas shows that the spouses of the heir-siblings should not become HRH's. It's a wrong signal. My guess is that Sofia will become Duchess of Värmland, fair enough, and not a Princess of Sweden.

Yes, it was told that Jonas would have not been Prince of Sweden, but at the press release of Chris O'Neill's title it is said
"This means that, in accordance with these principles, Mr Christopher O'Neill cannot hold the title H.R.H. Prince of Sweden or Duke of Gästrikland and Hälsingland".
Mr Christopher O'Neill's title - Sveriges Kungahus [NS4 version]

I think that this could be read that the king had changed his mind and Chris could have been made HRH Prince of Sweden.

About Sofia's title, the director of the press department, Margareta Thorgren, told to the press that the decision about the possible title will be made in the autumn.

Sofia Hellqvist is at Svensk Damtidning's (the gossip magazine which writes about royals) special protection. Yesterday their reporter Johanna Lejon
gave an interview to finnish new channel MTV and modified the truth rather strongly.
According to Lejon, Sofia's reputation has changed in Sweden. She has made an impression to swedes by being open-minded and down to earth.
- The Swedes have during the years started to love Sofia. When we heard about the engagement, the only reaction was a pure joy, Lejon said.
(Really, is that why over third of the comments in Svensk Damtidning's website were negative? And at the court Facebook?)
- People have become to know her better and realised that she is a lovely young women. Nowadays she is really popular and our readers want to read articles about her, said Lejon.
(And that's why so many people comment at once the new issue with Sofia on the cover comes to their website, that they will not buy that issue or read the stories).
Sofia was at first known as a model and a TV-reality show star. She has posed in racy photos in men's magazines and participated at Paradise Hotel. According to Lejon, Sofia's reputation has become better during the years.
- I don't believe, that there is any person who really hates her. Some may question her past, like Paradise Hotel.
Lejon admits, that Sofia has made an impact also to her.
- Sofia is really natural and warm, and she pays very well attention to the press, says Lejon. (And there the truth slipped. They promote Sofia, because she talks constantly with them).
Hovitoimittaja MTV.fille Sofian maine on muuttunut Ruotsissa - Viihde - MTV.fi

It is sad that there are representants of the press which will not tell the truth to foreign news channels.

 

[Cris M]

She has taken some courses.......and so she has had some education. Okay if that is the case then I am a professor in Ancient Egypt from the University that I took courses in, the University of Chicago and the Oriental Institute which is a very famous college for it's studies, check it on line and weep.......give me a break, anybody can take a course and add it to their CV and that doesn't mean squat. I am not a professor then she has graduated from college and I don't need something to lie about on my CV, she does. She is just whitewashing her image and trying to fool people into thinking that she has done something important in life, charity work or whatever. It will catch up with her and the court is stupid and foolish and ignorant to white wash her CV......most people can see through this and why in the heck lie about it.........do what MM did, admit your mistakes in public, come to the table with some compassion and understanding and tell the darn truth......then people would have more respect for her and then attitudes would change. She is getting a great lifestyle all paid for by hard working people who will and do have so much less then she has today.......that is injustice! She hasn't worked for a darn dime and in my opinion never has the prince.

Yes, she has taken some courses and received education. There's nothing to hide, she has just listed all the courses she has taken. But I suppose that's not enough for you.

And give us a break with this taxpayer money nonsense. Are you a specialist in Swedish taxpayer money? Do you know the exact amount of money Prince Carl Philip receive? Can you prove any of your allegations or are you just throwing all the nonsenses your mind can think about on a couple you don't like for no logical reason?

 

[xenobia]

I'm a swedish taxpayer, so I looked up some actual numbers.

The court got around 124 million SEK in 2013. (1 SEK = $0,15, so roughly $18,5 million dollars). The money are divided in two separate blocks:
Slottsstaten: 63 million SEK
Hovstaten: 61 million SEK

Slottsstaten are those who take care of the historical buildings and other items of historic importance. This expense would exist even if Sweden wasn't a monarchy.

Hovstaten are the ones who mange the royal families expenses. The money is divided between the members of the royal family. It also covers things like the salaries of all the employees - 67 full time workers in 2013).

There are roughly 9 million people living here in Sweden. This means that the monarchy costs less than 7 sek (around a dollar) per person. (I exclude the cost for maintaining the historical heritage here, since we would have that anyway).

I don't know about the rest of the taxpayers, but I can give the court (including Sofia) a dollar each year.

You can find the numbers here if you want to look into them more closely: Ekonomi - Sveriges Kungahus [NS4 version]

 

[muriel]

The SRF seem quite content with demonstrating their acceptance of Sofuia, warts and all. You have seen a gradual dance towards acceptance, and now, the engagement. My guess is that Sofia will take on her husband's titles, quite like it should be. Whilst she may not be a Princess in her own right, she will be a Princess by virtue of being the wife of a Prince.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

That is indeed the difference with Mr Westling and Mr O'Neill. Like in many other European countries also in Sweden there is the social custom that wives of titled gentlemen can be addressed with their husband's title(s). In Ms Hellqvist's case nothing needs to be arranged as the social custom will automatically apply on her, in contrary to Mr Westling and Mr O'Neill.

A Miss ABC marrying the Count Reventlow has the right to be addressed as the Countess Reventlow. Exactly like a Miss ABC marrying Mr Møller is addressed as Mrs Møller. Exactly like Ms Craig marrying a Prince of Sweden, Duke of Halland did result in her style as Princess Lilian of Sweden, Duchess of Halland. Any other decision than the example by Lilian will be explained as a sign of disapproval by the King.

 

[traceeb123]

I'm a swedish taxpayer, so I looked up some actual numbers.

The court got around 124 million SEK in 2013. (1 SEK = $0,15, so roughly $18,5 million dollars). The money are divided in two separate blocks:
Slottsstaten: 63 million SEK
Hovstaten: 61 million SEK

Slottsstaten are those who take care of the historical buildings and other items of historic importance. This expense would exist even if Sweden wasn't a monarchy.

Hovstaten are the ones who mange the royal families expenses. The money is divided between the members of the royal family. It also covers things like the salaries of all the employees - 67 full time workers in 2013).

There are roughly 9 million people living here in Sweden. This means that the monarchy costs less than 7 sek (around a dollar) per person. (I exclude the cost for maintaining the historical heritage here, since we would have that anyway).

I don't know about the rest of the taxpayers, but I can give the court (including Sofia) a dollar each year.

You can find the numbers here if you want to look into them more closely: Ekonomi - Sveriges Kungahus [NS4 version]

So roughly the royal family gets around 9million annually to operate - I am not sure what the average salary would be for those 67 employees, so I don't know how much that leaves to divide among the "family". I am curious though - where else does their money come from? This may be a silly question - but how do they have private money if they are not allowed to have jobs? Also does that money that they are allocated have to cover a "royal" wedding or would that be budgeted separate?

 

[xenobia]

So roughly the royal family gets around 9million annually to operate - I am not sure what the average salary would be for those 67 employees, so I don't know how much that leaves to divide among the "family". I am curious though - where else does their money come from? This may be a silly question - but how do they have private money if they are not allowed to have jobs? Also does that money that they are allocated have to cover a "royal" wedding or would that be budgeted separate?

I'd say that the average cost for a company to have a full-time employee is around 500 000 sek, including social fees and pensions. So if Hovstaterna have 67 full-timers, that's a cost of around 33,5 million SEK. That leaves 27,5 million to other things like representation costs for the royals. Things like royal weddings are included in this amount.

The royal family have a quite substantial private fortune. As far as I know, they pay privately for things like vacations.

 

[Marengo]

Thank you for the overview and clarification xenobia, it is always good to know what we are actually talking about.

--
As a reminder to other posters: please keep things civil. If you feel the urge to attack another poster personally for his/her opnion: take a break, log out and cool down. Thanks.

 

[xenobia]

Thank you for the overview and clarification xenobia, it is always good to know what we are actually talking about.

Thanks. I also like facts. They make discussions so much better.

Speaking of weddings, several news articles in march wrote that the king will be asking for more money next year. One of the reasons is that Madeleine and Chris' wedding, which gave them a minus in the books in the end of the last year. We can assume that Carl Philip and Sofia will have a wedding similar in size to that one, so it's going to be another expensive year for the royal court.

 

[LadyFinn]

For goodness sake, LadyFinn and SElizabeth, you both act as if Sofia has done you personal harm and caused you irrepairable damage.
Your reactions would almost indicate that both of you were passed over in favor of her...

I don't understand what you mean. Since we in Finland don't have our own royal family, we have always felt like the swedish royal family is like our own. I have followed the swedish royal family since the king and queen got married. I think that to become a member of the royal family, or a member of the Head of State, the person must be one people can respect and look up to. And miss Hellqvist certainly isn't like that, at least to me. People say she made a mistake when she was young. She didn't make a mistake, she had a way of life, in which the main goal was to get famous and get publicity as much as possible by posing in photos and attending a reality show and so on. That lasted about 8 years. Then she met Carl Philip, and her main goal was still to get famous. After they started dating she decided that it is good to get involved in charity business, because queen Silvia has started many charity organisations. I think that she hasn't changed at all essentially, just bought a lot of expensive clothes and learned how to do a good make up. At least her love for the press and publicity hasn't changed a bit.

And about Sofia and her family, if I was the king or queen, I wouldn't want my grandchildren to have other grandparents, who allowed their daughter to pose in provocative photos when she was a minor and urged her to pose in Slitz. I wonder what queen Silvia thinks about that, since she has done so much for the children getting sexually abused and talked about trafficking.

 

[Fox]

Sofia reflects badly on the Prince. It says something about his qualities and his standards.

 

[Marengo]

Svensk Damtidning, one of the magazines that has promoted Sofia relentlesly over the years, now banned negative comments on their website about Sofia, as they consider it trolling and bullying.

Not a good move IMO, having doubts and expressing them does not equal bullying. Why they decided to erase ALL negative comments and not just the ones where people are actually trolling or bullying is a mystery. Likewise, it is a mystery that an editor of this magazine said yesterday that all of Sweden loves Sofia (on a Finnish tv), and it is another mystery why the magazine has 'bullied' Madeleine and Chris O'Neill for 2 years or so - since the chief editor claims to be so principled. It makes you rather cynical about the motives of such magazines, which I am sure are not altruistic at all, but it is interesting to see the manipulation at work, esp. as it is done so blatantly in the open.

A very odd step. Again, why not only erase the comments that are indeed out of line?

The comments are varied, many say: 'finally' while many others are angry and call it censorship or wonder why the magazine 'bullied' Madeleine.
Chefredaktör Karin Lennmor: Inte en elak kommentar om Sofia Hellqvist till… | Svensk Damtidning

 

[LadyFinn]

Svensk Damtidning, one of the magazines that has promoted Sofia relentlesly over the years, now banned negative comments on their website about Sofia, as they consider it trolling and bullying.

Not a good move IMO, having doubts and expressing them does not equal bullying. Why they decided to erase ALL negative comments and not just the ones where people are actually trolling or bullying is a mystery. Likewise, it is a mystery that an editor of this magazine said yesterday that all of Sweden loves Sofia (on a Finnish tv), and the magazine has 'bullied' Madeleine and Chris O'Neill for 2 years or so. And also allowed the negative comments to stay around.

A very odd step. Again, why not only erase the comments that are indeed out of line?

The comments are varied, many say: 'finally' while many others are angry and call it censorship or wonder why the magazine bullied Madeleine.
Chefredaktör Karin Lennmor: Inte en elak kommentar om Sofia Hellqvist till… | Svensk Damtidning

The way Svensk Damtidning acts is strange, because they allow the king, queen, Victoria, Daniel, Carl Philip, Madeleine and Chris being bullied and harassed. People have during the years said really bad things about the king and queen and told unfounded rumours. They have bullied Daniel and Madeleine a lot. The editor of Svensk Damtidning hasn't said a word. Now she tries to get people to be silent when they write truths about Sofia's life.
So much for the freedom of speech.

 

[Nordic]

Svensk Damtidning, one of the magazines that has promoted Sofia relentlesly over the years, now banned negative comments on their website about Sofia, as they consider it trolling and bullying.

And this applies only for Sofia does it? They have allowed other royals, not just Swedish, to be bullied for years.