Christening of Prince Gabriel of Sweden: December 1, 2017

[Mbruno]

I always find Carl Philip a really poised young man with a regal but approachable attitude. He would have been a fine King. He reminds me of Don Felipe.

Really ? Felipe and Carl Philip have completely different personalities IMHO. Felipe is somewhat of an intellectual and has always taken his royal duties and his preparation to ascend the throne very seriously. CP on the other hand strikes me as a little bit of a playboy and not particularly smart. I guess his upbringing would have been different if he had remained the heir to the throne, but still I can't see CP growing up to be like Felipe.

 

[Somebody]

It may be very well that, in the future, the children of Gabriel may NOT have the title of Prince/ss of Sweden, Duke/Duchess of X (i.e. limiting those titles to the children and grandchildren of tge monarch). Instead, they may bear titles from the Duchy of Dalarna (whatever that may be) or be titleless.

Even if the above does not eventuate, Gabriel's, and indeed Sofia's descendants will be linked to the dukedom. We, as avid members of this Forum, illustrate when a previous dukedom was held etc. Historians will state that X, is the great great grandchild of Gabriel, a Prince of Sweden, Duke of Dalarna, whose mother was born in Dalarna.

Yes, in references to 'descending' from Gabriel his Dukedom might be mentioned - but the title of 'Duke of Dalarna' will not be passed on.

It will be interesting to see what decisions will be made in relation to CP's (and Madeleines) grandchildren. I am sure king Carl Gustaf wouldn't want them to be titleless (as the male-line heirs) but I hope they will limit the Prince(ss) of Sweden titles to children and grandchildren of the monarch [had Madeleine's children not been awarded princely titles, I might have preferred male-line princes to pass on their titles but having everyone pass on their titles is not feasible IMO).

My guess would be that the 'Count of Bernadotte' title might be used for (at least) male-line descendants - unless that at that time would still be considered as strongly related to 'unapproved' marriages. Prince(ss) Bernadotte might be an alternative option.

However, we're getting off-topic. Probably better for a Swedish titles-topic.

 

[Somebody]

Know hypothetical, but why would it effect Madeleine? It would just bump her up further in succession. I would assume the heirs to the Estonian throne would be his sons, not his sister and her kids.

A short line of succession is always a risk, so for Estonia it would be helpful if they wouldn't have only two minor princess in line to the throne but also 4 others (a king's younger sister and her children would normally be in line to the throne after his own children).

 

[LadyFinn]

Expressen's royal expert Karin Lennmor yesterday at her chronicle
How much you can modify the royal traditions?
Lennmor writes that two things really surprised - Princess Sofia's unusual choice of outfit and the choice of music.
It felt and was seen that the christening details were designed by the will of Sofia. She goes her own way, this princess. Unlike her two sisters-in-law, who both are significantly more traditionally bound.
When the protagonists Prince Gabriel, Princess Sofia and Prince Carl Philip entered the Chapel, a whisper went through the congregation. Sofia was wearing a folk costume - and, as far as I know, the first time in history, a royal is wearing folk costume on a christening ...
But the biggest question is - Is it approriate to break the protocol by completely ignoring the dress code? Did Sofia consult with anyone, or did she decide entirely herself?
Surprise number two was the choice of music. We already know that both Carl Philip and Sofia have some unconventional music tastes...
Now it was another surprise. Lena Willemark from Älvdalen sang two pieces; a newly written tribute to Gabriel and a translated South African folk song "Think of me".
I usually think it's fun with new thinking, but how much can you modify the royal traditions? If there is a protocol, should it be followed? We actually talk about writing royal family history.
Sofia perhaps should learn a little from Crown Princess Victoria? She is the most traditional in the family - she looks back on history and likes to repeat it. She also tries to convey these feelings to her children Estelle and Oscar.
That the Crown Princess family chose to settle at Haga Palace, is a way to tie the story together. Here both her dad and grandparents have lived before her...
Do I sound grouchy when I complain about Sofia? I like her forward spirit, that she softened Carl Philip, that she dares to focus on important issues like dyslexia, or to her own Project Playground?
But perhaps she should squint a little on how Victoria and Madeleine have handled the royal heritage and have a little respect for royal traditions.
Next spring Madeleine's third child will be christened. It will be more traditional, I promise. Both in terms of music selection and clothing.
Hur mycket kan man rucka på de kungliga traditionerna_ _ Karin Lennmor _ Expressen
Translation

It is interesting that Karin Lennmor now is rather critical towards Sofia, in 2014 she as the editor-in-chief of Svensk Damtidning after Carl Philip and Sofia's engagement published a statement at the website of SD that SD will not publish any negative comments about Sofia - but they published negative comments of other members of the royal family, and Chris.

 

[royal rob]

Expressen's royal expert Karin Lennmor yesterday at her chronicle
How much you can modify the royal traditions?
Lennmor writes that two things really surprised - Princess Sofia's unusual choice of outfit and the choice of music.
It felt and was seen that the christening details were designed by the will of Sofia. She goes her own way, this princess. Unlike her two sisters-in-law, who both are significantly more traditionally bound.
When the protagonists Prince Gabriel, Princess Sofia and Prince Carl Philip entered the Chapel, a whisper went through the congregation. Sofia was wearing a folk costume - and, as far as I know, the first time in history, a royal is wearing folk costume on a christening ...
But the biggest question is - Is it approriate to break the protocol by completely ignoring the dress code? Did Sofia consult with anyone, or did she decide entirely herself?
Surprise number two was the choice of music. We already know that both Carl Philip and Sofia have some unconventional music tastes...
Now it was another surprise. Lena Willemark from Älvdalen sang two pieces; a newly written tribute to Gabriel and a translated South African folk song "Think of me".
I usually think it's fun with new thinking, but how much can you modify the royal traditions? If there is a protocol, should it be followed? We actually talk about writing royal family history.
Sofia perhaps should learn a little from Crown Princess Victoria? She is the most traditional in the family - she looks back on history and likes to repeat it. She also tries to convey these feelings to her children Estelle and Oscar.
That the Crown Princess family chose to settle at Haga Palace, is a way to tie the story together. Here both her dad and grandparents have lived before her...
Do I sound grouchy when I complain about Sofia? I like her forward spirit, that she softened Carl Philip, that she dares to focus on important issues like dyslexia, or to her own Project Playground?
But perhaps she should squint a little on how Victoria and Madeleine have handled the royal heritage and have a little respect for royal traditions.
Next spring Madeleine's third child will be christened. It will be more traditional, I promise. Both in terms of music selection and clothing.
Hur mycket kan man rucka på de kungliga traditionerna_ _ Karin Lennmor _ Expressen
Translation

It is interesting that Karin Lennmor now is rather critical towards Sofia, in 2014 she as the editor-in-chief of Svensk Damtidning after Carl Philip and Sofia's engagement published a statement at the website of SD that SD will not publish any negative comments about Sofia - but they published negative comments of other members of the royal family, and Chris.

I find your post interesting when I saw the traditional outfit I thought did I forget that they do that. No I didn’t remember anyone wearing it. I didn’t have any idea why she did so I understand a bit more now. All very interesting

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Ms Lennmor talking about a folk costume yes/no and claiming that Victoria upholds "tradition". Folk costume at the one hand. A fitness trainer at the other hand. If Victoria was so keen on traditions she would have abstained from her rights in in favour of her brother (wasn't it "tradition" until today's very day that the eldest son is King?), she should have married a royal or aristocratic partner (it was never a "tradition" to see the fitness trainer as a Prince of Sweden) and if Victoria was so much more on tradition, why then "Estelle" as a name?

Conclusion: Ms Lennmor was determined to write her "article" with vinegar and used far-sought futilities as "arguments".

 

[Tatiana Maria]

My apologies, I know I can come across as a know-all (which of course I am not - there is always more to learn). Hopefully others found the information useful.

I agree that it was a nice gesture on Sofia's part to make this nod to Dalarna. To me it is also a confirmation that this dukedom was picked because Sofia is from Dalarna - which I think many suspected but this gesture confirms that to me.

Indeed, I am continually learning from the useful information on the forum, and read with interest your (very much respectful) posts.

It is interesting that dissimilar to the ducal titles of German, French, or British royal princes, the ducal titles of the Swedish princes never became inheritable.

 

[Mari-Anne]

A short line of succession is always a risk, so for Estonia it would be helpful if they wouldn't have only two minor princess in line to the throne but also 4 others (a king's younger sister and her children would normally be in line to the throne after his own children).

Funny but even thought I live in Estonia, I haven't heard that prince Carl Philip has been approached by Estonia to be its king. For something like this we would have to change the constitution because Estonia is a parliamentary republic where the President is a ceremonial figurehead. So we do not have much use for some foreign prince/princess. Besides Estonian constitution avoids concentration of too much power in one person's hands due to our history.
I guess this "proposal" for prince Carl Philip was meant as some kind of a joke and even thought Estonia and Sweden have good relationship and lots of joint history, there's no possibility for Carl Philip and his children to rule in Estonia (both Carl Philip's sisters have visited Estonia but don't know if he has ever even been to Estonia).
In 2018, the Republic of Estonia will celebrate its 100th anniversary, so should some Swedish royal want to visit, he or she would very much be welcome!

 

[wartenberg7]

Ms Lennmor talking about a folk costume yes/no and claiming that Victoria upholds "tradition". Folk costume at the one hand. A fitness trainer at the other hand. If Victoria was so keen on traditions she would have abstained from her rights in in favour of her brother (wasn't it "tradition" until today's very day that the eldest son is King?), she should have married a royal or aristocratic partner (it was never a "tradition" to see the fitness trainer as a Prince of Sweden) and if Victoria was so much more on tradition, why then "Estelle" as a name?

Conclusion: Ms Lennmor was determined to write her "article" with vinegar and used far-sought futilities as "arguments".

I think choosing ones life partner is a very different matter than wearing a national costume, don ´t you think?!
And abstaining her right in favour of her brother would have been turning against a decision the swedish parliament has made!

 

[Mari-Anne]

All christenings of king Carl Gustaf's grandchildren so far have been much better than this, it was clearly the worst. Too much pop music and many people were dressed really inappropriate for a church event in winter. But, Estelle was great as always and I like Archbishop Emeritus Anders Wejryd much more than Archbishop Antje Jackélen, those were the best parts of the ceremony.

Gallery
Christening of Prince Gabriel of Sweden, 01-12-2017 - Images _ Bernard Rübsamen

Sorry but I don't think its even possible to compare one christening to another....its like comparing one sibling/child to another, even twins are each of their own persons and personalities. Just as are the events. And TBH I'm getting a little tired of this constant "Estelle was great as always". I guess it may start to look like there's been too many of the christenings lately in the SRF (6 till now, 7th in spring/early summer 2018) but as the siblings have had their children so close to each other, then there's nothing to be done about it.
Perhaps some think they could have cut down on the openness of the christenings of Madeleine's and Carl Philip's children? Its their right but I am definitely very grateful that we get to be "part" of all those chistenings too thanks to the broadcast and pictures from the church. All of the christenings have been dignified, beautiful and solemn events imho and I'm sure there will be longer wait for the next christening after a couple of years.

 

[xenobia]

I think it's very natural that Victoria is the sibling who usually (but not always) is a bit more traditional. She's the heir, quite simply, with all that comes with the position. Both Carl Philip and Madeleine can have a little bit more freedom in their choices, in all areas. I have no problem what so ever with that. In fact, I think it would be more strange if all three siblings were more similar. It's nice to see them find their roles, personalities and place in life.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I think choosing ones life partner is a very different matter than wearing a national costume, don ´t you think?!
And abstaining her right in favour of her brother would have been turning against a decision the swedish parliament has made!

All true but I was countering Ms Lennmor who claimed -with disapproval- that Sofia was less respecting traditions with her traditional dress and with African music. Victoria had more respect for tradition was claimed. Oh yes? A fitness trainer? Estelle as a Queen's name? Pop music during their wedding? All okay but do not claim that Victoria adheres tradition so much more than Carl Philip, come on. No one else as Victoria made the most un-traditional choice ever. All by all quite illustrative for Ms Lennmor's "niveau" of journalism.

 

[Mbruno]

Ms Lennmor talking about a folk costume yes/no and claiming that Victoria upholds "tradition". Folk costume at the one hand. A fitness trainer at the other hand. If Victoria was so keen on traditions she would have abstained from her rights in in favour of her brother (wasn't it "tradition" until today's very day that the eldest son is King?), she should have married a royal or aristocratic partner (it was never a "tradition" to see the fitness trainer as a Prince of Sweden) and if Victoria was so much more on tradition, why then "Estelle" as a name?

Conclusion: Ms Lennmor was determined to write her "article" with vinegar and used far-sought futilities as "arguments".

Victoria could not "abstain" from her rights. She is the heir to the throne by law and neither she nor her father have any power to change the law by themselves. In fact, the only situations where Victoria could legally give up her sucessions rights would be if she left the Lutheran Church of Sweden, or if she had married without the government's consent, or if she became the sovereign of another country without the consent of the King and the Riksdag. The Act of Succession does not allow for unilateral "renunciation" of succession rights, so my understanding is that, if Victoria were to give up get her place in the line of succession, the Act of Succession would have to be amended, which is a non-trivial process since the Act of Sucession is considered a fundamental law and, therefore, is subject to a qualified amendment procedure.

On the Christening itself, I am not a fan either of pop music in church services, but Swedish posters like Xenobia have mentioned before in these forums that pop music is now common in Church of Sweden services. If their church is OK with it, I don't think it is up to me to question their music choices. I didn't particularly like the folk costume either and I wish Sofia had chosen a more conventional attire, but I am pretty sure she cleared her wardrobe choice first with the Royal Court and, somehow, they must have thought it would be politically wise to wear it.

 

[Pranter]

Sorry but I don't think its even possible to compare one christening to another....its like comparing one sibling/child to another, even twins are each of their own persons and personalities. Just as are the events. And TBH I'm getting a little tired of this constant "Estelle was great as always". I guess it may start to look like there's been too many of the christenings lately in the SRF (6 till now, 7th in spring/early summer 2018) but as the siblings have had their children so close to each other, then there's nothing to be done about it.
Perhaps some think they could have cut down on the openness of the christenings of Madeleine's and Carl Philip's children? Its their right but I am definitely very grateful that we get to be "part" of all those chistenings too thanks to the broadcast and pictures from the church. All of the christenings have been dignified, beautiful and solemn events imho and I'm sure there will be longer wait for the next christening after a couple of years.

There should be another Christening for Maddie next year...I forget when she is due!


LaRae

 

[Skippy]

I see that my original post was deleted (which I can now sort of understand), so I try to keep it more civil now.
It's just that I find the continued pointing the arrow towards Sofia and how she doesn't respect tradition etcetera (fill in whatever "necessary") very tiresome.
Especially when Victoria (and her family) is dragged into everything for comparision and treated like an angel no less almost like a saint who can do no wrong.
Both women are neither, they are human, so both women make mistakes.

I believe it would be wise if this comparision stick horse is left at home every once in a while.

That was my final take.

And I believe that I am in love with Prince Alexander, what a cute little guy!

 

[JR76]

Regarding the, to foreigners, somewhat odd choice of music at services in the Church of Sweden I was at a funeral this Friday that started and ended with instrumental versions of two pop songs from the 70s by respectively Kim Larsen and Cornelis Vreeswijk. In between during the service were two hymns, some instrumental music as we approached the coffin and then a choir sang a hymn and the Swedish song that participated in Eurovision 1988. This kind of mix is what's become traditional since the 1930-40s onwards and it would even be odd to most Swedes not to include some songs that reflects your personality. I myself was very surprised when the forums almost imploded during the wedding of Sofia and Carl-Philip because of their choice of music. I hadn't realised it was so different from how it's done in other churches.
The priest can say no if he or she feels that it's not a song fitting for a church but as I've never heard about that happening since people in general know there's a line somewhere.

 

[Somebody]

Funny but even thought I live in Estonia, I haven't heard that prince Carl Philip has been approached by Estonia to be its king. For something like this we would have to change the constitution because Estonia is a parliamentary republic where the President is a ceremonial figurehead. So we do not have much use for some foreign prince/princess. Besides Estonian constitution avoids concentration of too much power in one person's hands due to our history.
I guess this "proposal" for prince Carl Philip was meant as some kind of a joke and even thought Estonia and Sweden have good relationship and lots of joint history, there's no possibility for Carl Philip and his children to rule in Estonia (both Carl Philip's sisters have visited Estonia but don't know if he has ever even been to Estonia).
In 2018, the Republic of Estonia will celebrate its 100th anniversary, so should some Swedish royal want to visit, he or she would very much be welcome!

Thanks for chiming in from Estonia. Concentration of too much power in one person's hand shouldn't be an issue as the Swedish King himself is probably the most ceremonial, least powerful of all monarchs (at least he is typically mentioned as an example), so if the people would want a ceremonial head of their country without any real power, the Swedish model could be adopted and CP should be fine with it.

 

[JR76]

Carl-Philip was offered the Estonian throne by a local royalist association. The Court didn't comment on the offer and once it had been in the Swedish papers for a few days it all died down quickly. I don't think anyone took it seriously.

 

[Mari-Anne]

There should be another Christening for Maddie next year...I forget when she is due!


LaRae

Madeleine is due in March 2018, so the christening will be some time around late spring/early summer of 2018. There could be more christenings in next few years should e.g. Carl Philip and Sofia have a third child.
I enjoy christenings, and I think the Swedish next generation is so cute and fun to watch. Now that Leonore and Nicolas were missing, then Alexander provided some distraction during the ceremony by taking off from his parents and falling down. But so children are, more interested in their own things than what the grownups do

 

[Pranter]

Heck Maddie could have more children too!



LaRae

 

[Mari-Anne]

Carl-Philip was offered the Estonian throne by a local royalist association. The Court didn't comment on the offer and once it had been in the Swedish papers for a few days it all died down quickly. I don't think anyone took it seriously.

Thanks for this information, JR76. I don't think this news was even in Estonian newspapers....at least I dont remember something like this. Its a good thing that the court didn't comment on this offer, I doubt this offer was made seriously, at least local royalists aren't taken seriously in here

 

[principessa]

The official pictures:

The little family: http://www.kungahuset.se/images/200...iel_dop_1_foto_Erika_Gerdemark_kungahuset.jpg
With all aunts:
http://www.kungahuset.se/images/200...iel_dop_2_foto_Erika_Gerdemark_kungahuset.jpg
With the godparents:
http://www.kungahuset.se/images/200...iel_dop_3_foto_Erika_Gerdemark_kungahuset.jpg
With the grandparents:
http://www.kungahuset.se/images/200...iel_dop_4_foto_Erika_Gerdemark_kungahuset.jpg

 

[Minea]

Lovely background with beautiful, soft colours as usual in Erika Gerdemark's photos. Still no picture of prince Gabriel sleeping in the cradle. I found one with the cradle in the background, but unfortunately prince Carl Philip's hand is blocking the view:
https://gfx-bloggar.aftonbladet-cdn...rmavbild-2017-12-01-kl.-16.25.47-1024x679.png

 

[Stefanie]

Wonder why they don' t show Gabriel' s full face.
Slowly I believe something might be wrong because there's no full face photo since shortly after his birth

 

[Thena]

Wonder why they don' t show Gabriel' s full face.
Slowly I believe something might be wrong because there's no full face photo since shortly after his birth

Did you actually watch the christening? Because you do get a good look over his face when the archbishop was holding him over the baptismal font, and there's nothing wrong with him at all. He's an infant, not a model, so he's not going to be posing for head shots anytime soon.

 

[Fijiro]

https://78.media.tumblr.com/9478e8dd725013bff001fd056e25a72a/tumblr_p0bt30PfO71qkoeepo1_540.gif

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/da/c3/90/dac39081b5c29caeb75cd2e42412e66f.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/29/f6/a3/29f6a3f97eda6d7cd833aab1a05c3cfe.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kD2lwMxs...CLcBGAs/s595/Prince-Gabriel-christening-8.jpg

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos...-duke-of-sodermanland-the-picture-id883535188

Prince Alexander has got such a happy disposition.

 

[polyesco]

thank you card with a picture of Gabriel
https://pp.userapi.com/c841225/v841225601/68cdc/kjQkGFtoLpA.jpg

 

[Loyly]

thank you card with a picture of Gabriel
https://pp.userapi.com/c841225/v841225601/68cdc/kjQkGFtoLpA.jpg

Oh Gabriel is sweet! What a happy little guy. Alexander always seems so cheerful and content too, they are precious. Thanks for the photo, polyesco.

 

[Fijiro]

IMO, Prince Gabriel resembles Princess Sofia, and
Prince Alexander resembles Prince Carl Philip

I would love to see a picture of the two young princes together.

?

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Aw, such a sweet; cheerful photo of little Gabriel! I always think it's nice when royals release unseen photos in thank you messages. Gabriel looks a lot like Sofia (who also, on a trivial note, has lovely handwriting) there.