Carl Philip and Sofia's Wedding: Suggestions and Musings

[Skippy]

Am I the only one who don't like the cameo tiara? the size, the color,too much!
I didn't like it on Victoria either... the veil and the plain hairdo were hidden by the crown...

I wrote that in post #63, I don't like it either for the same reasons.

 

[Marty91charmed]

Glad I'm not alone

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Online but I have not reliable sources to link sorry
I read that Lindwell (who usually is very well.informed slipped "duchess of varmland"

Unless other arrangements are made, when Sofia marries Carl Philip, she can be addressed by her husband's style, so becoming Prinsessa Sofia av Sverige, Hertiginna av Värmland. This is just the centuries old custom regarding the style of ladies married to titled gentlemen.

 

[Lee-Z]

Glad I'm not alone

You're certainly not alone, does nothing whatsoever for me, wouldn't miss it if it got lost in the extensive swedish collection and was never seen again
However, the swedish ladies seem to like it, maybe it looks different in person than on pictures?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Am I the only one who don't like the cameo tiara? the size, the color,too much!
I didn't like it on Victoria either... the veil and the plain hairdo were hidden by the crown...

Most likely not only the aesthetic aspect played a role, also the history and the grandness of a jewel is taken into account, for sure when it is about a wedding of a future Queen. The elaborate suite came via Hortense de Beauharnais, Queen of Holland into the hands of her niece Joséphine de Beauharnais, Duchess of Leuchtenberg.

The first Bernadotte King of Sweden was a Maréchal de France, serving under Napoléon. His son would marry Napoléons "step-granddaughter" Joséphine, it is clear the suite with the camées is of great historic importance. Nice or ugly then are of secondary importance.

 

[Marty91charmed]

Thank ypu Lee-Z for your explanation...

About the cameo tiara: maybe it depends on how it suits the person as well! IMO even if I don't like it I must say that Victoria managed to pull it off... even better that her mom... I don't know if I'd say the same should I see it on Sofia's head of if Madde had worn it

 

[Tilia C.]

Am I the only one who don't like the cameo tiara? the size, the color,too much!
I didn't like it on Victoria either... the veil and the plain hairdo were hidden by the crown...

I didn't like the cameo till Victoria wore it. She really won me over for this tiara. Back then I had hoped that it would become family's traditional wedding tiara. But since Madeleine chose not to wear it, I don't think that Sofia should.

It really shouldn't be the laurel tiara. It's not necessary to borrow from Victoria, because there are enough tiara in the royal vaults. Wearing the laurel tiara would seem to me like betraying Lillians last wish. (Just my feeling)

About the modern fringe I have the impression that it might have been give to Madeleine at some point. It seems that she is the only one to wear it these days. And it would make sense to give her a tiara which can be worn as a necklace and which has no long royal history. It's not such a loss to the historical collection.

For a long time I thought that the Baden fringe was now exclusively Victoria's to wear. But than her aunt wore it at Madeleine's wedding. So I now think that Sofia might wear it at her wedding. It would certainly look good!

But the most likely option imho is the Connaught tiara. It was already worn by one royal bride and would look lovely. And it would be another sign to underline how the SRF has accepted her. Imo the King and Queen are quite concerned about getting this message across.

 

[Lee-Z]

Most likely not only the aesthetic aspect played a role, also the history and the grandness of a jewel is taken into account, for sure when it is about a wedding of a future Queen. The elaborate suite came via Hortense de Beauharnais, Queen of Holland into the hands of her niece Joséphine de Beauharnais, Duchess of Leuchtenberg.

The first Bernadotte King of Sweden was a Maréchal de France, serving under Napoléon. His son would marry Napoléons "step-granddaughter" Joséphine, it is clear the suite with the camées is of great historic importance. Nice or ugly then are of secondary importance.

Now you're being all sensible ofcourse you're right, there's more to it than just looks ( but it still doesn't do *it* for me )

 

[Tilia C.]

Thank ypu Lee-Z for your explanation...

About the cameo tiara: maybe it depends on how it suits the person as well! IMO even if I don't like it I must say that Victoria managed to pull it off... even better that her mom... I don't know if I'd say the same should I see it on Sofia's head of if Madde had worn it

I have seen photoshopped versions of Madeleine in her bridal attire with the cameo tiara instead of the diamond one. I thought it absolutely gorgeous! It went very well with the hairstyle M. had at her wedding day.

But since she wore "only" the modern fringe (a disappointing choice imho), I would find it weird to see the cameo on any other bride than Estelle. Besides, Sofia is more petite than Victoria and Madeleine. She might look overpowered with it.

 

[Skippy]

I have seen photoshopped versions of Madeleine in her bridal attire with the cameo tiara instead of the diamond one. I thought it absolutely gorgeous! It went very well with the hairstyle M. had at her wedding day.

But since she wore "only" the modern fringe (a disappointing choice imho), I would find it weird to see the cameo on any other bride than Estelle. Besides, Sofia is more petite than Victoria and Madeleine. She might look overpowered with it.

That is exactly what I think would happen. It doesn't suit with her body type.

In that respect it's a pity it ain't fall/autumn yet, then the wedding planning will start .

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

At the other side Prince Carl Philip was born as Crown Prince and future King of Sweden until a change of the Constitution, very much against the wishes of the King who thought his son's already existing position and rights were infringed, made Princess Victoria the Crown Princess.

In the male lineage the Prince is the futue of the House Bernadotte. The fact that there are fideï-commis legates and arrangements benefitting Prince Carl Philip certain estates, like the specific bequeathing of Solbacken Estate to the Prince (and not to his sisters), underlines that for a lot of the old House arrangements he is "the man". For Sweden he is "just" Nr Three now, for his House he is still the new Bernadotte in the family tree. From some points of view his marriage his not that "unimportant". Also the fact that this week a Swede has bequeathed all his possesions to Prince Carl Philip indicates his initial position. He is an "important" Prince let's say and he has an equal access to the Bernadotte Foundation. After all he is the only new Bernadotte leave on the old tree.... It is not ruled out that Sofia will wear important jewels.

 

[JR76]

At the other side Prince Carl Philip was born as Crown Prince and future King of Sweden until a change of the Constitution, very much against the wishes of the King who thought his son's already existing position and rights were infringed, made Princess Victoria the Crown Princess.



In the male lineage the Prince is the futue of the House Bernadotte. The fact that there are fideï-commis legates and arrangements benefitting Prince Carl Philip certain estates, like the specific bequeathing of Solbacken Estate to the Prince (and not to his sisters), underlines that for a lot of the old House arrangements he is "the man". For Sweden he is "just" Nr Three now, for his House he is still the new Bernadotte in the family tree. From some points of view his marriage his not that "unimportant". Also the fact that this week a Swede has bequeathed all his possesions to Prince Carl Philip indicates his initial position. He is an "important" Prince let's say and he has an equal access to the Bernadotte Foundation. After all he is the only new Bernadotte leave on the old tree.... It is not ruled out that Sofia will wear important jewels.

Sorry but i haven't heard anything about a swede leaving his estate to CP this week (not surprisingly since the media is all about the warm weather, Gaza, the warm weather, Ukraine, the warm weather...) Do you have any other info regarding theprinces new inheritance?


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[LadyFinn]

At the other side Prince Carl Philip was born as Crown Prince and future King of Sweden until a change of the Constitution, very much against the wishes of the King who thought his son's already existing position and rights were infringed, made Princess Victoria the Crown Princess.

In the male lineage the Prince is the futue of the House Bernadotte. The fact that there are fideï-commis legates and arrangements benefitting Prince Carl Philip certain estates, like the specific bequeathing of Solbacken Estate to the Prince (and not to his sisters), underlines that for a lot of the old House arrangements he is "the man". For Sweden he is "just" Nr Three now, for his House he is still the new Bernadotte in the family tree. From some points of view his marriage his not that "unimportant". Also the fact that this week a Swede has bequeathed all his possesions to Prince Carl Philip indicates his initial position. He is an "important" Prince let's say and he has an equal access to the Bernadotte Foundation. After all he is the only new Bernadotte leave on the old tree.... It is not ruled out that Sofia will wear important jewels.

That Carl Philip inherited Villa Solbacken, has nothing to do with fideikommisset. Prince Bertil bought Villa Solbacken in 1947, it was his private property and he left it to Carl Philip, because Carl Philip was his godson. And since prince Bertil and princess Lilian didn't have own children, Carl Philip was a little like own son to them. And the king knew that Victoria as the future monarch would have residences to live. Prince Bertil left also 5 million SEK each to Victoria, Carl Philip and Madeleine. The king made in May 2012 a proposal to the government, that the so called Galliera Collection should go always to the monarch and not to the first male in lineage, so that Victoria would inherit it instead of Carl Philip. The goverment was dealing with the proposal in 2013, the press hasn't told about the decision. Maybe it hasn't been made yet or it demands a change in the law and elections before the decision can be made.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is true that there are arrangements to adapt the various regulations so that the King/Queen will have the usufruct rather than the most senior male agnate who would be King under the previous rules. For so far however, it has not been changed. I am sure it will, but I only want to stress that Carl Philip still has a sort of special position unless all and everything has been exactly fixed. That is also why I was disappointed by the choice of partner because I am of the opinion he should maintain the standard and the prestige of his illustrious House but apparently the young man doesn't care about that.

 

[Lee-Z]

It is true that there are arrangements to adapt the various regulations so that the King/Queen will have the usufruct rather than the most senior male agnate who would be King under the previous rules. For so far however, it has not been changed. I am sure it will, but I only want to stress that Carl Philip still has a sort of special position unless all and everything has been exactly fixed. That is also why I was disappointed by the choice of partner because I am of the opinion he should maintain the standard and the prestige of his illustrious House but apparently the young man doesn't care about that.

I didn't consider this before, but you are right: CP is the male child and will continue the Bernadotte name. In a lot of families (not just royal) that is still an important thing.
Imo the size of the wedding will reflect that...

 

[Tilia C.]

I didn't consider this before, but you are right: CP is the male child and will continue the Bernadotte name. In a lot of families (not just royal) that is still an important thing.
Imo the size of the wedding will reflect that...

But Victoria also continues the Bernadotte line, Estelle is a Bernadotte, and Estelle's kids will be.* The rules as to how the line continues has changed as well as the succession law. In that respect Leonor is now a Princess and a Duchess. That would have been impossible in the previous generation. They women have been up-graded, they can now continue the dynasty in Sweden.

I don't think the CP's wedding will be bigger than Madeleine's because of him being male, or ranking higher in the succession. But M. reportedly wanted a small and private wedding and the King talked her into the public wedding she had. So if CP's wedding should be grander than M's, that's probably his and Sofia's choice.

* The Netherlands had three generations of Queens and the RF still considers themselves as Orange-Nassau. They never changed the dynastic name to Mecklenburg-Scherin, Lippe-Biesterfeld or von Amsberg. The young Engish royals might use Windsor-Mountbatten as a surname, but in a dynastic sense they are continuing the House of Windsor.

 

[Marengo]

It would be very odd if a collection of art would go to a secundary branch. Since the art is in palaces, and is used for representational functions of the house, it should stay with the main line. And the main line will be a female one. If the collection ends up with CP the items will surely end up on auctions (by him or by his descendants) and will go abroad. And indeed, Victoria's branch will also be Bernadotte, just as was the case in the Netherlands and in Luxembourg and what will probably be the case in Norway, Belgium and Spain in the distant future too. Times change.

 

[Lee-Z]

But Victoria also continues the Bernadotte line, Estelle is a Bernadotte, and Estelle's kids will be.* The rules as to how the line continues has changed as well as the succession law. In that respect Leonor is now a Princess and a Duchess. That would have been impossible in the previous generation. They women have been up-graded, they can now continue the dynasty in Sweden.

I don't think the CP's wedding will be bigger than Madeleine's because of him being male, or ranking higher in the succession. But M. reportedly wanted a small and private wedding and the King talked her into the public wedding she had. So if CP's wedding should be grander than M's, that's probably his and Sofia's choice.

* The Netherlands had three generations of Queens and the RF still considers themselves as Orange-Nassau. They never changed the dynastic name to Mecklenburg-Scherin, Lippe-Biesterfeld or von Amsberg. The young Engish royals might use Windsor-Mountbatten as a surname, but in a dynastic sense they are continuing the House of Windsor.

Yes, i know all that, but that's not what i'm talking about: CP is the male line descendant from the first Bernadotte, and that was what i was trying to say: in some families that is something special.
I'm not talking about dynasty, line to the throne or any of that; even in my own family (who are not hierarchical or tradionalists at all) when a male line descendent has a son, we mention it as a 'fun fact'. For us, that's about it, nothing special is expected or done when the situation occurs, but I'm sure there are some families who still consider it more than a fun fact...

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

You're certainly not alone, does nothing whatsoever for me, wouldn't miss it if it got lost in the extensive swedish collection and was never seen again
However, the swedish ladies seem to like it, maybe it looks different in person than on pictures?

Add me to the list of people who don't really like the Cameo Tiara. It's a little on the large side IMO and I've never liked the white decorations on it. I'm not an expert on Swedish Royal Jewellery, although I do like the Laurel Wreath Tiara. It's quite pretty and looked lovely when Crown Princess Margareta wore it on her wedding day.


As for Sofia's dress, I think it will be designed by Valentino since he designed Princess Madeleine's dress and I think Lili von Rosboch von Wolkenstein's dress was also one of his designs. I'm guessing that her dress will be in that lacy style as well.

 

[SElizabeth]

Just a question so that I can better understand this thread/line of thinking;
why is it still today that when a male child is born it is more important then a female child? Victoria is the first child of CG/S, why do I get the impression that because CP is male, he is more important regardless of the house he was born into, wasn't V also born into the HofB? The thinking of the world that males are more important then females has created many problems with different cultures and that has caused females to suffer horribly in this world, not just the past but in present day, India for example.
I am just trying to understand this line of thinking, this is 2014 not 1014...

 

[SElizabeth]

I know this is off topic, I am trying to understand earlier comments on the House of B and CP....

 

[Lee-Z]

Just a question so that I can better understand this thread/line of thinking;
why is it still today that when a male child is born it is more important then a female child? Victoria is the first child of CG/S, why do I get the impression that because CP is male, he is more important regardless of the house he was born into, wasn't V also born into the HofB? The thinking of the world that males are more important then females has created many problems with different cultures and that has caused females to suffer horribly in this world, not just the past but in present day, India for example.
I am just trying to understand this line of thinking, this is 2014 not 1014...

Is this referring to my post concerning CP being a male-line descendant? Because if it is, i haven't made myself clear (probably lack of english language on my part): i don't think a mal is more important than a female, they are equally important.

 

[Lady Nimue]

I admit I haven't read this thread thoroughly so I don't know if this has been fielded yet but I just want to put in my two cents: I am very disappointed that they aren't having a winter wedding. Can you imagine around Christmas/New Year's with all the snow - maybe even with snow falling and everything inside ablaze with candles and red and gold? How could they pass that up? JMO.

 

[Osipi]

Personally, I think a lot of it has to do with the passing down of the name. Up until recent times. when a woman married, she took her husband's name and would be a part of his "house" or dynastic line.

Carl Philip Bernadotte in times past (outside of the royal succession), being the first male, would be the one in the family to pass the name of Bernadotte down into future generations. Victoria would listed in family trees as nee Bernadotte.

 

[LadyFinn]

I don't think the CP's wedding will be bigger than Madeleine's because of him being male, or ranking higher in the succession. But M. reportedly wanted a small and private wedding and the King talked her into the public wedding she had. So if CP's wedding should be grander than M's, that's probably his and Sofia's choice.

But there was a very large amount of personal friends of Madeleine and Chris as guests. I would be surprised if there are as many personal friends as guests at Carl Philip's and Sofia's wedding. And although Carl Philip is third in the line of succession and Madeleine fourth, Carl Philip's wedding should not be "bigger" than Madeleine's. Either of them is the heir to the throne and future monarch and they should be treated equally. Of course, if Carl Philip and Sofia want a smaller wedding, they can do as they like.
At Madeleine's wedding there were over 500 guests at the church and about 400 guests at the dinner. At Victoria's wedding there were about 1200 guests at the church and 558 at the dinner.

 

[MoonShadow123]

I seriously doubt that Sofia will wear the same tiara Madeleine wore on her wedding day.

 

[principessa]

What about the Six-Button-Tiara?

 

[Lee-Z]

What about the Six-Button-Tiara?

This is one has been worn by many ladies in the SRF so it is available for sharing; it (and the 4 button one) needs big tiara hair, but maybe if she weirs a big veil that could work too.
Would be interesting to see how they look on Sofia, so even if not for the wedding i hope she wears them at some point in the coming years...

 

[Blog Real]

I liked Sofia wore the Tiara Bragança at your wedding.

 

[King of the Jungle]

I don't know why, but I think Sofia will wear a tiara with blue stones.
I also think that there will be royal representation from other countries at the wedding if only as guests of Silvia and GC.
Estelle will make a delightful flowergirl. I predict that the wedding will be traditional including Sofia in a dress with a high neckline.