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  #61  
Old 07-25-2014, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Marty91charmed View Post
Am I the only one who don't like the cameo tiara? the size, the color,too much!
I didn't like it on Victoria either... the veil and the plain hairdo were hidden by the crown...
I wrote that in post #63, I don't like it either for the same reasons.
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Old 07-25-2014, 05:30 PM
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Glad I'm not alone
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  #63  
Old 07-25-2014, 05:32 PM
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Online but I have not reliable sources to link sorry
I read that Lindwell (who usually is very well.informed slipped "duchess of varmland"
Unless other arrangements are made, when Sofia marries Carl Philip, she can be addressed by her husband's style, so becoming Prinsessa Sofia av Sverige, Hertiginna av Värmland. This is just the centuries old custom regarding the style of ladies married to titled gentlemen.
  #64  
Old 07-25-2014, 05:39 PM
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Glad I'm not alone
You're certainly not alone, does nothing whatsoever for me, wouldn't miss it if it got lost in the extensive swedish collection and was never seen again
However, the swedish ladies seem to like it, maybe it looks different in person than on pictures?
  #65  
Old 07-25-2014, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Marty91charmed View Post
Am I the only one who don't like the cameo tiara? the size, the color,too much!
I didn't like it on Victoria either... the veil and the plain hairdo were hidden by the crown...
Most likely not only the aesthetic aspect played a role, also the history and the grandness of a jewel is taken into account, for sure when it is about a wedding of a future Queen. The elaborate suite came via Hortense de Beauharnais, Queen of Holland into the hands of her niece Joséphine de Beauharnais, Duchess of Leuchtenberg.

The first Bernadotte King of Sweden was a Maréchal de France, serving under Napoléon. His son would marry Napoléons "step-granddaughter" Joséphine, it is clear the suite with the camées is of great historic importance. Nice or ugly then are of secondary importance.

  #66  
Old 07-25-2014, 05:44 PM
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Thank ypu Lee-Z for your explanation...

About the cameo tiara: maybe it depends on how it suits the person as well! IMO even if I don't like it I must say that Victoria managed to pull it off... even better that her mom... I don't know if I'd say the same should I see it on Sofia's head of if Madde had worn it
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  #67  
Old 07-25-2014, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Marty91charmed View Post
Am I the only one who don't like the cameo tiara? the size, the color,too much!
I didn't like it on Victoria either... the veil and the plain hairdo were hidden by the crown...
I didn't like the cameo till Victoria wore it. She really won me over for this tiara. Back then I had hoped that it would become family's traditional wedding tiara. But since Madeleine chose not to wear it, I don't think that Sofia should.

It really shouldn't be the laurel tiara. It's not necessary to borrow from Victoria, because there are enough tiara in the royal vaults. Wearing the laurel tiara would seem to me like betraying Lillians last wish. (Just my feeling)

About the modern fringe I have the impression that it might have been give to Madeleine at some point. It seems that she is the only one to wear it these days. And it would make sense to give her a tiara which can be worn as a necklace and which has no long royal history. It's not such a loss to the historical collection.

For a long time I thought that the Baden fringe was now exclusively Victoria's to wear. But than her aunt wore it at Madeleine's wedding. So I now think that Sofia might wear it at her wedding. It would certainly look good!

But the most likely option imho is the Connaught tiara. It was already worn by one royal bride and would look lovely. And it would be another sign to underline how the SRF has accepted her. Imo the King and Queen are quite concerned about getting this message across.
  #68  
Old 07-25-2014, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Most likely not only the aesthetic aspect played a role, also the history and the grandness of a jewel is taken into account, for sure when it is about a wedding of a future Queen. The elaborate suite came via Hortense de Beauharnais, Queen of Holland into the hands of her niece Joséphine de Beauharnais, Duchess of Leuchtenberg.

The first Bernadotte King of Sweden was a Maréchal de France, serving under Napoléon. His son would marry Napoléons "step-granddaughter" Joséphine, it is clear the suite with the camées is of great historic importance. Nice or ugly then are of secondary importance.

Now you're being all sensible ofcourse you're right, there's more to it than just looks ( but it still doesn't do *it* for me )
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Old 07-25-2014, 05:55 PM
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Thank ypu Lee-Z for your explanation...

About the cameo tiara: maybe it depends on how it suits the person as well! IMO even if I don't like it I must say that Victoria managed to pull it off... even better that her mom... I don't know if I'd say the same should I see it on Sofia's head of if Madde had worn it
I have seen photoshopped versions of Madeleine in her bridal attire with the cameo tiara instead of the diamond one. I thought it absolutely gorgeous! It went very well with the hairstyle M. had at her wedding day.

But since she wore "only" the modern fringe (a disappointing choice imho), I would find it weird to see the cameo on any other bride than Estelle. Besides, Sofia is more petite than Victoria and Madeleine. She might look overpowered with it.
  #70  
Old 07-25-2014, 06:24 PM
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I have seen photoshopped versions of Madeleine in her bridal attire with the cameo tiara instead of the diamond one. I thought it absolutely gorgeous! It went very well with the hairstyle M. had at her wedding day.

But since she wore "only" the modern fringe (a disappointing choice imho), I would find it weird to see the cameo on any other bride than Estelle. Besides, Sofia is more petite than Victoria and Madeleine. She might look overpowered with it.
That is exactly what I think would happen. It doesn't suit with her body type.

In that respect it's a pity it ain't fall/autumn yet, then the wedding planning will start .
  #71  
Old 07-25-2014, 07:39 PM
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At the other side Prince Carl Philip was born as Crown Prince and future King of Sweden until a change of the Constitution, very much against the wishes of the King who thought his son's already existing position and rights were infringed, made Princess Victoria the Crown Princess.

In the male lineage the Prince is the futue of the House Bernadotte. The fact that there are fideï-commis legates and arrangements benefitting Prince Carl Philip certain estates, like the specific bequeathing of Solbacken Estate to the Prince (and not to his sisters), underlines that for a lot of the old House arrangements he is "the man". For Sweden he is "just" Nr Three now, for his House he is still the new Bernadotte in the family tree. From some points of view his marriage his not that "unimportant". Also the fact that this week a Swede has bequeathed all his possesions to Prince Carl Philip indicates his initial position. He is an "important" Prince let's say and he has an equal access to the Bernadotte Foundation. After all he is the only new Bernadotte leave on the old tree.... It is not ruled out that Sofia will wear important jewels.
  #72  
Old 07-25-2014, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
At the other side Prince Carl Philip was born as Crown Prince and future King of Sweden until a change of the Constitution, very much against the wishes of the King who thought his son's already existing position and rights were infringed, made Princess Victoria the Crown Princess.



In the male lineage the Prince is the futue of the House Bernadotte. The fact that there are fideï-commis legates and arrangements benefitting Prince Carl Philip certain estates, like the specific bequeathing of Solbacken Estate to the Prince (and not to his sisters), underlines that for a lot of the old House arrangements he is "the man". For Sweden he is "just" Nr Three now, for his House he is still the new Bernadotte in the family tree. From some points of view his marriage his not that "unimportant". Also the fact that this week a Swede has bequeathed all his possesions to Prince Carl Philip indicates his initial position. He is an "important" Prince let's say and he has an equal access to the Bernadotte Foundation. After all he is the only new Bernadotte leave on the old tree.... It is not ruled out that Sofia will wear important jewels.

Sorry but i haven't heard anything about a swede leaving his estate to CP this week (not surprisingly since the media is all about the warm weather, Gaza, the warm weather, Ukraine, the warm weather...) Do you have any other info regarding theprinces new inheritance?


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  #73  
Old 07-26-2014, 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
At the other side Prince Carl Philip was born as Crown Prince and future King of Sweden until a change of the Constitution, very much against the wishes of the King who thought his son's already existing position and rights were infringed, made Princess Victoria the Crown Princess.

In the male lineage the Prince is the futue of the House Bernadotte. The fact that there are fideï-commis legates and arrangements benefitting Prince Carl Philip certain estates, like the specific bequeathing of Solbacken Estate to the Prince (and not to his sisters), underlines that for a lot of the old House arrangements he is "the man". For Sweden he is "just" Nr Three now, for his House he is still the new Bernadotte in the family tree. From some points of view his marriage his not that "unimportant". Also the fact that this week a Swede has bequeathed all his possesions to Prince Carl Philip indicates his initial position. He is an "important" Prince let's say and he has an equal access to the Bernadotte Foundation. After all he is the only new Bernadotte leave on the old tree.... It is not ruled out that Sofia will wear important jewels.
That Carl Philip inherited Villa Solbacken, has nothing to do with fideikommisset. Prince Bertil bought Villa Solbacken in 1947, it was his private property and he left it to Carl Philip, because Carl Philip was his godson. And since prince Bertil and princess Lilian didn't have own children, Carl Philip was a little like own son to them. And the king knew that Victoria as the future monarch would have residences to live. Prince Bertil left also 5 million SEK each to Victoria, Carl Philip and Madeleine. The king made in May 2012 a proposal to the government, that the so called Galliera Collection should go always to the monarch and not to the first male in lineage, so that Victoria would inherit it instead of Carl Philip. The goverment was dealing with the proposal in 2013, the press hasn't told about the decision. Maybe it hasn't been made yet or it demands a change in the law and elections before the decision can be made.
  #74  
Old 07-26-2014, 04:21 AM
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It is true that there are arrangements to adapt the various regulations so that the King/Queen will have the usufruct rather than the most senior male agnate who would be King under the previous rules. For so far however, it has not been changed. I am sure it will, but I only want to stress that Carl Philip still has a sort of special position unless all and everything has been exactly fixed. That is also why I was disappointed by the choice of partner because I am of the opinion he should maintain the standard and the prestige of his illustrious House but apparently the young man doesn't care about that.
  #75  
Old 07-26-2014, 08:36 AM
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It is true that there are arrangements to adapt the various regulations so that the King/Queen will have the usufruct rather than the most senior male agnate who would be King under the previous rules. For so far however, it has not been changed. I am sure it will, but I only want to stress that Carl Philip still has a sort of special position unless all and everything has been exactly fixed. That is also why I was disappointed by the choice of partner because I am of the opinion he should maintain the standard and the prestige of his illustrious House but apparently the young man doesn't care about that.
I didn't consider this before, but you are right: CP is the male child and will continue the Bernadotte name. In a lot of families (not just royal) that is still an important thing.
Imo the size of the wedding will reflect that...
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Old 07-26-2014, 09:46 AM
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I didn't consider this before, but you are right: CP is the male child and will continue the Bernadotte name. In a lot of families (not just royal) that is still an important thing.
Imo the size of the wedding will reflect that...
But Victoria also continues the Bernadotte line, Estelle is a Bernadotte, and Estelle's kids will be.* The rules as to how the line continues has changed as well as the succession law. In that respect Leonor is now a Princess and a Duchess. That would have been impossible in the previous generation. They women have been up-graded, they can now continue the dynasty in Sweden.

I don't think the CP's wedding will be bigger than Madeleine's because of him being male, or ranking higher in the succession. But M. reportedly wanted a small and private wedding and the King talked her into the public wedding she had. So if CP's wedding should be grander than M's, that's probably his and Sofia's choice.

* The Netherlands had three generations of Queens and the RF still considers themselves as Orange-Nassau. They never changed the dynastic name to Mecklenburg-Scherin, Lippe-Biesterfeld or von Amsberg. The young Engish royals might use Windsor-Mountbatten as a surname, but in a dynastic sense they are continuing the House of Windsor.
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Old 07-26-2014, 09:57 AM
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It would be very odd if a collection of art would go to a secundary branch. Since the art is in palaces, and is used for representational functions of the house, it should stay with the main line. And the main line will be a female one. If the collection ends up with CP the items will surely end up on auctions (by him or by his descendants) and will go abroad. And indeed, Victoria's branch will also be Bernadotte, just as was the case in the Netherlands and in Luxembourg and what will probably be the case in Norway, Belgium and Spain in the distant future too. Times change.
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Old 07-26-2014, 11:00 AM
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But Victoria also continues the Bernadotte line, Estelle is a Bernadotte, and Estelle's kids will be.* The rules as to how the line continues has changed as well as the succession law. In that respect Leonor is now a Princess and a Duchess. That would have been impossible in the previous generation. They women have been up-graded, they can now continue the dynasty in Sweden.

I don't think the CP's wedding will be bigger than Madeleine's because of him being male, or ranking higher in the succession. But M. reportedly wanted a small and private wedding and the King talked her into the public wedding she had. So if CP's wedding should be grander than M's, that's probably his and Sofia's choice.

* The Netherlands had three generations of Queens and the RF still considers themselves as Orange-Nassau. They never changed the dynastic name to Mecklenburg-Scherin, Lippe-Biesterfeld or von Amsberg. The young Engish royals might use Windsor-Mountbatten as a surname, but in a dynastic sense they are continuing the House of Windsor.
Yes, i know all that, but that's not what i'm talking about: CP is the male line descendant from the first Bernadotte, and that was what i was trying to say: in some families that is something special.
I'm not talking about dynasty, line to the throne or any of that; even in my own family (who are not hierarchical or tradionalists at all) when a male line descendent has a son, we mention it as a 'fun fact'. For us, that's about it, nothing special is expected or done when the situation occurs, but I'm sure there are some families who still consider it more than a fun fact...
  #79  
Old 07-26-2014, 03:42 PM
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You're certainly not alone, does nothing whatsoever for me, wouldn't miss it if it got lost in the extensive swedish collection and was never seen again
However, the swedish ladies seem to like it, maybe it looks different in person than on pictures?
Add me to the list of people who don't really like the Cameo Tiara. It's a little on the large side IMO and I've never liked the white decorations on it. I'm not an expert on Swedish Royal Jewellery, although I do like the Laurel Wreath Tiara. It's quite pretty and looked lovely when Crown Princess Margareta wore it on her wedding day.


As for Sofia's dress, I think it will be designed by Valentino since he designed Princess Madeleine's dress and I think Lili von Rosboch von Wolkenstein's dress was also one of his designs. I'm guessing that her dress will be in that lacy style as well.
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Old 07-26-2014, 03:48 PM
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Just a question so that I can better understand this thread/line of thinking;
why is it still today that when a male child is born it is more important then a female child? Victoria is the first child of CG/S, why do I get the impression that because CP is male, he is more important regardless of the house he was born into, wasn't V also born into the HofB? The thinking of the world that males are more important then females has created many problems with different cultures and that has caused females to suffer horribly in this world, not just the past but in present day, India for example.
I am just trying to understand this line of thinking, this is 2014 not 1014...
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