Willem-Alexander, Máxima and Family, General News Part 2 (May 2013 - May 2017)


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Duc_et_Pair said:
Heu... the speedboat (no yacht) is really a hot topic. Plenty of social forums which deliver a diarrhea of critics on the King and his family... I can direct you to lots of Dutch-language forums but I don't know if you want to read them. The level of participation is quite depressing and rude.
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No thank you :flowers: if those are the same forums that openly wish divorces and diseases on people i prefer not to read them :flowers:
I was referring to the dutch general media, national tv-stations and the like: apart from one announcement when the news surfaced, no news on the topic, not even headlines in the gossip press
 
Grond rond villa koning kost staat half miljoen | RTL Nieuws

Today a new money issue surrounding the villa in Greece: the government has used a piece of land next to the king's property for safety measurements, iow to put up a fence, security cams etc.
This land is leased with government-money for 30 years for a total sum of about half a million euro (apparently the land is currently valued at about 40k eur, roughly about 10%)

The prime-minister hadn't reported this sum in july because the villa is a private affair of the king, and about private affairs nothing is to be reported. However, now the dutch media has made it public because this is done with government money, not with the king's private money. Also: the fence is not put up on the edge of the king's property, which would have omitted the need to pay half a million in lease, but on a piece land owned by someone else.

So basically: where does the "private" life of the king end and "public" life begins if for the private life public money is needed? And shouldn't the prime-minister have had to report these public expenses?
 
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The King has little say in his own security. (Then) Queen Beatrix was against the awful terrorism-proof fence with camera's around her private little castle in the pittoresque village of Lage Vuursche. The NCTb (the Dutch counter-terrorism unit) however strongly advised the erection of such a fence and as the Government is responsible for the Queen's security, that fence simply came.

The same to the King's holiday residence. The question here however is: why was it needed that the State has to rent lands from the neighbours to erect such a fence? Were these costs not avoidable by erecting it on the King's own estate? Maybe the NCTb requires a certain distance of 'free field' around the fence, I do not know, but it is a question which immediately pops up.

From picturepress: part of the fence which was erected against (then) Queen Beatrix' wishes: http://picturepress.nl/thumbs/43a5957f53b3008dd2df5943f214e3dd.jpg
 
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Marty91charmed said:
Gaat koning Willem-Alexander Ice Bucket Challenge aan? - Blauw Bloed

Can anyone translate this? It appears that WA attended a very funny game:ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...

http://translate.google.nl/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.eo.nl/tv/blauwbloed/artikel-detail/koning-willem-alexander-en-koning-filip-uitgedaagd-voor-als-actie/%3Fnpo_cc_skip_wall%3D1%26npo_cc%3Dna%26npo_rnd%3D767275017
This is not a game, it's the ice-bucket challenge for awareness and donations for the disease ALS.
In itself a great initiative, but imo lot's of people now see it as just a fun "getting wet" activity and don't link it to ALS (and certainly don't donate any money for research of this devastating disease).

Even though i'm not much of a Charlie Sheen fan, i kinda agree with his variation:
http://9gag.com/gag/a1ZZGnw
 
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It is the challenge for the fight against the awful disease ALS, asking famous people to throw themselves with a bucket of ice water. As expected the King refused to throw himself soaking wet with ice water. Saying no is an option by the way, then it is expected to do a donation.

The couple however has a warm heart for the fight against ALS. Two years ago (then) Princess Máxima participated in a canal swim to raise money for ALS. His spouse and her daughters all were present to cheer and support the swimming Princess.

Picture: http://static3.volkskrant.nl/static/photo/2012/5/8/3/20120911100257/media_xl_1349043.jpg
 
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In the meantime security experts have hinted why it might have been necessary for the State to rent lands next to the King's estate for the erection of fences: the longer the distance is between the fence and the villa, the more time security forces have for an interception of possible intruders whom managed to penetrate the fenced estate.

The minister of the Interior refused to go into detail. He remarked that every Dutch citizen enjoys the right to be protected when there is a threat. What exactly is done, how long it will last and the costs are never revealed. The minister hinted to politicians as Mr Geert Wilders (the maverick right-wing politician) who is under threat for years and has to live under extremely tight security. The State pays for that too, without any reservation.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
The minister of the Interior refused to go into detail. He remarked that every Dutch citizen enjoys the right to be protected when there is a threat. What exactly is done, how long it will last and the costs are never revealed. The minister hinted to politicians as Mr Geert Wilders (the maverick right-wing politician) who is under threat for years and has to live under extremely tight security. The State pays for that too, without any reservation.
Click to expand...

And ofcourse the argument against is that if i want to protect myself in my own house, that i'm the one paying for a fence, camera's etc, and if i need more space between the fence and my house, i would have to lease or buy the land myself..

The vibe it gives of is that for a king who is so adamant about protecting his privacy (see mediacode and such) and who knows from a start protection is needed for that *and* has plenty of money to pay for it (see yacht), he seems very happy to leave as much to government money as he can
 
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Lee-Z said:
Google Translate
This is not a game, it's the ice-bucket challenge for awareness and donations for the disease ALS.
In itself a great initiative, but imo lot's of people now see it as just a fun "getting wet" activity and don't link it to ALS (and certainly don't donate any money for research of this devastating disease).

Even though i'm not much of a Charlie Sheen fan, i kinda agree with his variation:
Charlie Sheen - Ice bucket challenge - 9GAG
Click to expand...

a very noble cause! But I guess the king won't attend, right?
 
Lee-Z said:
And ofcourse the argument against is that if i want to protect myself in my own house, that i'm the one paying for a fence, camera's etc, and if i need more space between the fence and my house, i would have to lease or buy the land myself..

The vibe it gives of is that for a king who is so adamant about protecting his privacy (see mediacode and such) and who knows from a start protection is needed for that *and* has plenty of money to pay for it (see yacht), he seems very happy to leave as much to government money as he can
Click to expand...

The King already had to buy an extra slot of land for the erection of an annex and an extra garage for the security. There was already a fence and limited access via the sea. The NCTb (the counter-terrorism unit) apparently found it not secure enough and advised extra hindrances. It is possible that the King is not at all happy about this because he (and his family) felt in love with this unspoiled part of Greece and now finds himself surrounded by a terrorism proof fence.

I understand the feeling: why doesn't he pay it by himself? But also others who need protection have not asked for it and are also not forced to pay for it. Even footballclubs are not charged for the costs of police while they have millions to buy new players. It is a principle of free protection for any Dutch citizen, the King included.

:flowers:
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
The King already had to buy an extra slot of land for the erection of an annex and an extra garage for the security. There was already a fence and limited access via the sea. The NCTb (the counter-terrorism unit) apparently found it not secure enough and advised extra hindrances. It is possible that the King is not at all happy about this because he (and his family) felt in love with this unspoiled part of Greece and now finds himself surrounded by a terrorism proof fence.

I understand the feeling: why doesn't he pay it by himself? But also others who need protection have not asked for it and are also not forced to pay for it. Even footballclubs are not charged for the costs of police while they have millions to buy new players. It is a principle of free protection for any Dutch citizen, the King included.

:flowers:
Click to expand...

I'm afraid that this is not the general feeling in the NL-media, not even in the non-gossip-variety...
The prime-minister should have reported the expense when it happened, just like it happens when other people receive government support, and especially after the "drama" around the Mozambique-villa some years ago... With the Mozambique situation in mind, the greek villa was chosen because all the necessary options were available (both for the family themselves as for their protection), therefore it's a bit strange that extra expense for security is needed.
But it's also a bit of a continuing story: nobody complained about the yacht, because that was the king's own money, but when you have a yacht, you need a dock (or similar) so you can "park" it near your house: the dock for the king's yacht is payed with government money. So it's not really just this fence, but fence and other expenses and lease for land which is only worth a tenth of the lease-amount and the prime-minister not being straight-forward about it all, etc etc

fyi: with football there was a similar discussion some years ago, but the difference here is that the protection in the footballstadium is handled by the footballclub itself, while protection of public space is handled by the government.
 
It seems that the dock was also a wish of the NTCb (the counter terrorism unit). Various Dutch departments have done all efforts to obtain all permits and licenses for the construction of that dock. It is all unlucky and I also have the feeling: why does the King not simply chose a nice old château in France, for an example near Orange...

But also there the same discussion would arise: like around Eikenhorst, Drakensteyn, the royal palaces, apparently (and sadly) there needs to be an advanced security fence around. Soestdijk Palace just has a relatively low fence and that was always okay. Before 1982 Noordeinde Palace had no any fence at all. It seems inevitable.

I understood that various officials had to do all efforts to obtain pieces of land and make a long-time arrangement. So apparently the Prime Minister, the Minister of the Interior and who knows more found it all necessary. They could have said: no. (And maybe the King was happy with that too, not having an ugly fence and a concrete dock spoiling his pittoresque estate).
 
Protestantse Kerk: Koning getuigt te weinig van zijn geloof - Religie - TROUW
Leaders of the Protestant Church in the Netherlands (of which the King is a member) note that his reign up until now shows relatively little sign of religion.
They suggest that for the King to be neutral and "for all dutch people" doesn't mean that there should be no attention for his religion.

Already at last years christmas speech there were some remarks from religious circles that the King didn't mention God or Jesus once.

A survey earlier this year shows that only 7% of the dutch people thinks the King should be "neutral" about his religion; 75% thinks it's fine for the King to show is religion within his kingship.
Koningshuis mag christelijk geloof uitdragen - Geloven

(In the Netherlands, around 44% of the general public is not religious, approx 27% is Roman-Catholic, approx 20% is protestant or one of the other christian denominations, the rest follows various other religions; figures from CBS 2009 http://statline.cbs.nl/StatWeb/publication/?VW=T&DM=SLNL&PA=60027ned&D1=91-95&D2=a,!11-46&D3=(l-4)-l&HD=140826-1822&HDR=T,G2&STB=G1)
 
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In Trouw, a protestant newspaper, there were arguments pro and contra for a more public exposure of the King's religion. I made a summary in English:

Your Majesty, you can not hide God
Willem-Alexander is King in the name of us all, but that does not mean he has to wipe out his own identity. The Rev. Karin van den Broeke is right: the Sovereign would do well to bear witness to his motives. Personal faith may sustain in this.

That the King is a committed Christian is beyond doubt. Take the fact that now 29 years long the King and several friends have monthly meetings to discuss faith with the Rev. Carel ter Linden (the royal family's pastor). From the accounts of the Rev. Ter Linden we know that the King is interested and actively participating during those evenings. The fact that the King did his Confirmation when he was 30 years old, shows that his choice to become a full member of the Protestant Church was well-thought and not impulsive.

In an interview with Paul Witteman (then) Prince Willem-Alexander stated that his faith "is something that leads to life." "I'm not very religious," he admitted, "but a convinced believer." Follow suit does not mean that he has to put Christianity on a pedestal. Willem-Alexander represents a country with strong Christian roots - as King he may show that.

Now the fact that the Netherlands have developed into a multicultural country, does not change this. Respect for diversity goes well with being conscious about the own history and identity. In the King's own words: "I believe that in order to function in a multicultural society, you have to nurture your own roots well."

King Willem-Alexander does not need to worry about the separation of church and state. It only requires that the state must not interfere in the policies of the church and vice-versa. The government and the Crown treat the Protestant Church like other churches: as an important but not all-powerful institution in society. The Protestant Church is not advantaged because the King accidentally happens to be a member of it.


Your Majesty, your faith is entirely private
Orthodox Protestants would like to see a pious and God-fearing leader on the throne. A figurehead of church and fatherland that propagates traditional Protestant values. Willem-Alexander can not be such a King. First, because he does not meet the profile, but also because most of the Netherlands are not at all waiting for such a sort of monarch.

By keeping a low profile about his faith, the King prevents to alienate atheïsts, Muslims, Jews and other believers. That King Willem-Alexander feels inspired by his belief in the Christian God is valuable, but it does not oblige him to demonstrate this all the time.

His mother was a bit more explicit about her faith. (Then) Queen Beatrix spoke about "a strong belief that God directs my life". The Queen went to church regularly and had frequent contact with the Rev. Ter Linden. King Willem-Alexander is completely free in forming the kingship in his own way. Invoking God in speeches is mostly tradition. His predecessors have always changed traditions and conventions. The King can do that too.

Last year the Rev. Ter Linden told in the newspaper Trouw that the young Prince Willem-Alexander was fascinated by the "stories" in the Bible. The orthodox view that the Bible contains no "stories" but "histories" did not appeal the Prince. From such a King we can hardly expect to sail a traditional religious course.

Incidentally, we should not forget that King Willem-Alexander has shown his Christian faith so now and then. During the Investiture the King mentioned that he will rule "by the grace of God." His first Address from the Throne was concluded by wishing the parliamentarians "God's blessing to rest upon them". Thus King Willem-Alexander's kingship is not thát secular.

Link to the article in Dutch: Koning, waarom zwijgt u over God? - Christendom - TROUW
 
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An overzealous rascal this so-called reverant Trouw is a trut-krant beyond its experation date trying to get sensational...:whistling::lol:...HM is King of ALL,that includes all denominations.Anything like this reveals the overzealous stupendishness of some these days.HM doesn't have to mention god in every darn speech or conversation!Really.All this is taken with a raise of eyebraws and shrugs here....Cucumbertime ad nauseam!


Duc_et_Pair said:
In Trouw, a protestant newspaper, there were arguments pro and contra for a more public exposure of the King's religion. I made a summary in English:

Your Majesty, you can not hide God
Willem-Alexander is King in the name of us all, but that does not mean he has to wipe out his own identity. The Rev. Karin van den Broeke is right: the Sovereign would do well to bear witness to his motives. Personal faith may sustain in this.

That the King is a committed Christian is beyond doubt. Take the fact that now 29 years long the King and several friends have monthly meetings to discuss faith with the Rev. Carel ter Linden (the royal family's pastor). From the accounts of the Rev. Ter Linden we know that the King is interested and actively participating during those evenings. The fact that the King did his Confirmation when he was 30 years old, shows that his choice to become a full member of the Protestant Church was well-thought and not impulsive.

In an interview with Paul Witteman (then) Prince Willem-Alexander stated that his faith "is something that leads to life." "I'm not very religious," he admitted, "but a convinced believer." Follow suit does not mean that he has to put Christianity on a pedestal. Willem-Alexander represents a country with strong Christian roots - as King he may show that.

Now the fact that the Netherlands have developed into a multicultural country, does not change this. Respect for diversity goes well with being conscious about the own history and identity. In the King's own words: "I believe that in order to function in a multicultural society, you have to nurture your own roots well."

King Willem-Alexander does not need to worry about the separation of church and state. It only requires that the state must not interfere in the policies of the church and vice-versa. The government and the Crown treat the Protestant Church like other churches: as an important but not all-powerful institution in society. The Protestant Church is not advantaged because the King accidentally happens to be a member of it.


Your Majesty, your faith is entirely private
Orthodox Protestants would like to see a pious and God-fearing leader on the throne. A figurehead of church and fatherland that propagates traditional Protestant values. Willem-Alexander can not be such a King. First, because he does not meet the profile, but also because most of the Netherlands are not at all waiting for such a sort of monarch.

By keeping a low profile about his faith, the King prevents to alienate atheïsts, Muslims, Jews and other believers. That King Willem-Alexander feels inspired by his belief in the Christian God is valuable, but it does not oblige him to demonstrate this all the time.

His mother was a bit more explicit about her faith. (Then) Queen Beatrix spoke about "a strong belief that God directs my life". The Queen went to church regularly and had frequent contact with the Rev. Ter Linden. King Willem-Alexander is completely free in forming the kingship in his own way. Invoking God in speeches is mostly tradition. His predecessors have always changed traditions and conventions. The King can do that too.

Last year the Rev. Ter Linden told in the newspaper Trouw that the young Prince Willem-Alexander was fascinated by the "stories" in the Bible. The orthodox view that the Bible contains no "stories" but "histories" did not appeal the Prince. From such a King we can hardly expect to sail a traditional religious course.

Incidentally, we should not forget that King Willem-Alexander has shown his Christian faith so now and then. During the Investiture the King mentioned that he will rule "by the grace of God." His first Address from the Throne was concluded by wishing the parliamentarians "God's blessing to rest upon them". Thus King Willem-Alexander's kingship is not thát secular.

Link to the article in Dutch: Koning, waarom zwijgt u over God? - Christendom - TROUW
Click to expand...
 
lucien said:
An overzealous rascal this so-called reverant Trouw is a trut-krant beyond its experation date trying to get sensational...:whistling::lol:...HM is King of ALL,that includes all denominations.Anything like this reveals the overzealous stupendishness of some these days.HM doesn't have to mention god in every darn speech or conversation!Really.All this is taken with a raise of eyebraws and shrugs here....Cucumbertime ad nauseam!
Click to expand...

You must be among the 7% then..
 
Well, although 75% thinks it is fine if he shows some of his religious beliefs, that doesn't mean that they think that he ought to show it. Personally I think that a higher deity has no place in state events but I don't mind the king referring to his God in his christmas speech, which is a personal one or the religious marriage and baptism.

The RF was long associated with protestantism and usually did a lot to please them. In the 30-ties Juliana had to stop using the Piet Hein yacht on sunday for example, after criticism from the churches. The last decades this changed,as less people are religious but this causes uneasiness with the core group of orthodox christians.

A few years ago they critisized the RF for attending official functions & having personal engagements on sundays. Two months ago the criticism on (the catholic) queen Máxima -for being too exhubertant- came mainly from this group, and now this. In the 90-ties they voted against the wedding of Prince Maurits to the catholic Marilene van den Broek and attacked Queen Juliana for taking the communion at their wedding. Obviously they have difficulties in accepting their reduced role.

I would say it is too soon to say anything useful about the matter, the king has only been on the throne for 16 months. But being too outspoken about his personal beliefs will undoubtably lead to a flow of criticism from most of society. Whatever his personal beliefs are, they are his own and they have no place in a secular state. A Luxembourg scenario where the Grand Duke let his personal beliefs prevail over his constitutional duty would -quite rightly- lead to a serious crisis.

---
About the fence in Greece: I understand that the press and some parties spin this out of proportion and that it leaves a bad impression. But if you leave out the populist arguments it isn't that odd. He 'works' for the Dutch state and the state is responsible for his safety. Even the neo-fascist politician Geert Wilders is protected so why not the king? In many cases the state actually provides for a holiday retreat for their presidents and prime ministers (Chateau Rambouillet in France, Camp David etc). And added to that: I think it would be more expensive if he would holiday on different places all the time. Each and every time the security services would have to make a risk calculation, provide extra safety measures etc.

As others said: I am quite sure that the king would have preferred his retreat not to be spoiled by such an ugly fence. Sadly that doesn't make a nice & catchy headline for a newspaper and neither does it provide some eager 2nd rate members of parlament with some minutes on television. So the whole thing is blown out of proportion, as has been the case with most (royal and non-royal) issues since the late 90-ties/ early 2000s due to rising populism in politics and in the press.

The boat: how the king wants to spend his own money is his own business. He can throw it all in the North Sea if he wants to.

Anyway... the next thing will be the costs of the restauration of Huis ten Bosch, which will probably cost millions. That the palace is state property, used for state functions will be ignored by the press and politicians and I am sure the couple will be blamed for the whole thing. Not that it is unusual to have some works done on a property when the old owner moves out and a new one moves in. Especially since it has been 3 1/2 decades when the palace had its last extensive renovation.
 
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Imo, The thing about the fence is that it is pretty hard to justify why it wasn't build on the king's land:
- the view? it's now maybe 1 meter further away, now it's on the neighbour's land that was leased (it was only a tiny sliver that was leased, just for the fence)
- with other people's protection it's the same situation? Security and protection yes, that is public service to anyone who needs it, but noone is complaining about that: if i need protection around my house and a fence has to erected, do you honestly think that that will stand on my neighbour's land?
- vacation in one place? but they already also vacationed in Peru this year and they have several other holiday houses which can be used by various family members, as well as several large estates in the netherlands which are also secured.

By the way, because non-dutch forum-members might not know, but these issues were raised by mainstream media in the NL, not just by gossip magazines. Trouw is a respectable mainstream newspaper, but one of the few in the NL which actually states that it's a Christian paper.

Anyway, this will all blow over once the RF will restart work again, which will be pretty soon i expect ;)
 
Lee-Z said:
You must be among the 7% then..
Click to expand...

I am among the 100% Dutch that do not feel HM has to mention God in every fiddledee sentence,no.And even former respectable mainstream papers face the problem of reclining interest as we have the web,i-Pad,i-Pod,tablet,pi..but that is here ofcourse in the big city..So they will and do lend themselves to issues beneath them and most did not even know about let alone had an interest in.No.it's hyped up nonsense,totally.This is 2014AD not BC.Next!

As you yourself state two posts below..like you,this will all blow over I'm sure.

I stick with Marengo's statement.Entirely!!Hear Hear Hear!And on the costs for Huis ten Bosch,been done before in the early 1980's when the then Monarch wished to take up Residence at Huis ten Bosch....It needed the renovation as it does now,and eventually all hypes subside...then,and now.
 
The problem is that nothing happens without the backing of the ministers. That fence around the holiday estate in Greece had the backing of the ministers. The renovation of Huis ten Bosch Palace had the backing of the ministers. No single eurocent can be spent without it being budgetted in the -by the Parliament approved- State Budget.

The Royal House is accidentally one of these rare state services which always remain within the budget and never had any criticisms by the comptrollers and accountants of the Auditory Chamber (the independent comptrolling body which controls the accountability of all expenses by the State).

When there is "uproar" about the high costs of the security in Greece or the renovation of the Palace, it never becomes clear that it was the State which fully agreed with these costs, as they have accorded a budget for it. I think it is strange that never a minister steps forward and says: "I have accorded the extensive restoration of Huis ten Bosch Palace". Now it remains silent and suddenly King Willem-Alexander is "framed" as a luxe-King.

Honesty needs to say that buying speedboats, overseas properties and the most expensive Audi does not help to fight that image either. Somewhere the King seems quite close to his grandfather Prince Bernhard with his Ferrari cars and always a bottle of cooled Moët Pommery Rose and a fresh San Cristóbal cigar in the back seat.

:flowers:
 
queenofcelts said:
no pictures from taking girls to school?
Click to expand...

We don't get to see pics of the girls on their first school day after the summer break. We only got pics when the girls had their first day at school ever. It's not like in Belgium for example where we see pics each September when school starts again.


Here are some more additional pics from yesterday:


** IBL gallery - August 31 **


** semana.es: Las princesas de Holanda acuden al Campeonato Mundial de Remo en Amsterdam **
 
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Ah, WA's hair is back to normal, sadly.
Nice that the princesses wear different clothes. I believe the one of Alexia was worn by Amalia a few years ago.
 
Marengo said:
Ah, WA's hair is back to normal, sadly.
Nice that the princesses wear different clothes. I believe the one of Alexia was worn by Amalia a few years ago.
Click to expand...
I actually remember they hd a family photo at their home and the A they had that dress, I am not sure where to find the photo, may be some other member has it?
The girls grew up so much! and Amalia is so tall she looks like a 12 year old girl!
They all have a beautiful hair!!!!!
 
Marengo said:
Well, although 75% thinks it is fine if he shows some of his religious beliefs, that doesn't mean that they think that he ought to show it. Personally I think that a higher deity has no place in state events but I don't mind the king referring to his God in his christmas speech, which is a personal one or the religious marriage and baptism.

The RF was long associated with protestantism and usually did a lot to please them. In the 30-ties Juliana had to stop using the Piet Hein yacht on sunday for example, after criticism from the churches. The last decades this changed,as less people are religious but this causes uneasiness with the core group of orthodox christians.

A few years ago they critisized the RF for attending official functions & having personal engagements on sundays. Two months ago the criticism on (the catholic) queen Máxima -for being too exhubertant- came mainly from this group, and now this. In the 90-ties they voted against the wedding of Prince Maurits to the catholic Marilene van den Broek and attacked Queen Juliana for taking the communion at their wedding. Obviously they have difficulties in accepting their reduced role.
Click to expand...

Maxima is supposed to be Catholic and seems to be very close to the current Pope, who is a fellow Argentinian. However, she didn't marry in the Catholic Church and her 3 daughters were baptized in the Protestant Church. I also don't think she attends mass , at least not regularly. All that makes me question her true committment to Catholicism.

Generally speaking, Willem-Alexander and Maxima seem to me like many Western European couples in the same age bracket or younger these days, i.e they were raised in a particular church, acknowledge a belief in the Christian deity, and share Christian moral values, but are not really practicing Christians in the sense of attending church services regularly or participating in church rituals. I understand that many orthodox Calvinists, who have always looked up to the House of Orange as the "defenders" of their church, may resent that. They are a minority of the current Dutch population though.
 
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