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  #161  
Old 01-04-2012, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
On another message board the suggestion was made by a poster that Maxima deliberately acts to overshadow Queen Beatrix and will be very disappointed if the Queen does not abdicate in favor of WA but instead chooses to reign for life.
Is this a generally held opinion in The Netherlands? I was under the impression that both the Queen and Princess Maxima are really quite popular and that they have quite a good relationship.
Nonsense.HRH Princess Máxima makes no attempt to overshadow HM at all.That is not the way things are done,and it is not a reality.Again,bla bla of the Boards and other nonsense perceptions.HM and the Princess get along absolutely fantastic,they are besotted with eachother.
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  #162  
Old 01-04-2012, 09:07 AM
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From the little I have seen and read on this and other boards, the general impression is that the Queen and the CP couple make a dynamite trio. It appears Beatrix genuinely likes, perhaps even loves, her daughter-in-law and shows it in a very tangible way.

She is seen so often with Maxima and they appear to have a really good rapport. Maxima's being seen in 19+ tiara's is just one of the really subtle ways Beatrix uses to get her message across to the truely thick!

Just because it is announced that Maxima will be Willem Alexander's Queen Consort does not mean that the Queen has to abdicate. When and if she does is entirely up to her. I don't for one minute think any of her children would wish here to abdicate unless that is what she wishes.
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  #163  
Old 01-04-2012, 03:30 PM
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I thought she will automatically be queen. Why does parliament have a say in that?
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  #164  
Old 01-04-2012, 04:02 PM
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Both Queen Beatrice and Princess Maxima seem to be exceptionally kind people. I was just viewing a clip from Maxima's wedding and was actually startled by the warmth of Queen Beatrice's response to W & M's bows to her. I hope she stays queen for life.
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  #165  
Old 01-04-2012, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrincess5 View Post
I thought she will automatically be queen. Why does parliament have a say in that?
Because it is not usual in the Netherlands that the wife of the future king will have the title Queen. Its the same that it is not usual that the husband of the future queen will have the title king. In case of Juliana&Bernhard and Beatrix&Claus the men did not have the title king but prince.
  #166  
Old 01-04-2012, 05:40 PM
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It's great to know that maxima will be queen of the Netherlands only will she be queen or just Queen consort
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  #167  
Old 01-04-2012, 05:46 PM
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She will be the Queen Consort, known as Queen Maxima of the Netherlands, as the wife of King Willem IV of The Netherlands.
The wives of previous Dutch Kings held the title of Queen, but in this age of equality some people felt that since the husband of a reigning Queen was just a Prince then the wife of a reigning King should remain a Princess. The same thinking applies to Maxima not being titled Princess of Orange even though married to the Prince of Orange.
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  #168  
Old 03-07-2012, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M. View Post
With other words: the Royal House Act 2002 has excluded the titles 'King of the Netherlands' and 'Prince of Orange' to be shared by the female spouse. Because these are the only noble title on which is not exclusively be inherited by issue from a male descendant only, as is the case with all other noble titles in the Netherlands.
Sorry to bring that up again, but I'm still not convinced that Maxima will not be queen.

That is how I understand the Act of 2002.
It wanted to make clear who is a member of the Royal House in his or her own right, who can become a member, what will happen if one ceases to be a member. Plus which member has which title in his own right.

New is that there is no difference between male or female children. New is that the spouse of the souverain and of the heir apparent can be created a Prince or Princess in his or her own right. This mean they are full members with their own title and rank.

It's not like in Britain where except Prince Philip who was created a prince of the UK in his own right, all female spouses are only called by their husband's title and style out of courtesy but don't possess them personally - in their own right.

Princess Maxima on her marriage became a real member of the Royal House and was given the title of a princess in her own right. As long as she stays married (and becoming a widow is treated equally, as long as the widow doesn't remarry) she is a member in her own right.

So - this is good. But where in the Act does it say that the old traditional ways of sharing a husband's rank, style and title (name) are abolished? As the Netherland still have an aristocracy, there must be a law about sharing rank on marriage, no? Or is it accepted "Common law"-tradition? In any case there must be a formal way to handle this as there are ranks and titles in the Netherlands besides the Royal ones and thus there must be rules for the marriage of females to the holders of such rank and titles. Be it in the family laws or somewhere else, these have to exist somewhere.
Can someone of our Dutch members help with that?

Does it say somewhere in the Act of 2002 that these rules do not longer apply for Royals? Because if not, they form a parallel law to this Act. There is a hint that this is the case because all spouses of the sons of queen Beatrix became "Jonkrouw van Amsberg" on marriage, because they married a "Jonkheer van Amsberg". if there wasn't a rule for sharing the husband's rank, then they wouldn't become a "Jonkrouw" (a "noblewoman") but a Mevrouw ("married woman"). Or not?

So the Act of 2002 only covers Maxima's title and position of a member of the Ryaol House which includes "ministerial responsibility" as the homepage of the Royal House says. It does not cover her right to share her husband's rank and titles.

Of course at the moment her own personal rank as a Princess of the Netherlands is higher than the rank as spouse of her husband The Prince of Orange. Thus she is named not by her courtesy style as Princess of Orange but by her own which obviously gives her more than just a courtesy position in the constitution of the Netherlands.

It will be different when Willem-Alexander becomes king. She will still be a Princess of the Netherlands then, just like her husband still is a Prince, too. But then her courtesy rank of her husband's queen and her share of his title of "Majesty" probably outranks her own personal title as a Princess. No?

I understood the government's position as quoted some pages earlier as follows: At the moment Maxima is the Princess of the Netherlands and will stay that even after her husband's accession. It will be decided when the need arises on the accession of king Willem-Alexander if her own personal title or her courtesy title of Queen will become her official title.

But people of the Netherlands can call her queen if they so want because by courtesy she will be her husband's queen anyway.

Is that correct?
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  #169  
Old 03-07-2012, 06:47 AM
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I start a new post because otherwise my post would get too long.

I just found a German article on the reform of the Dutch family laws of 1998 and especially of the Dutch law on nobility.

See here: http://arno.unimaas.nl/show.cgi?fid=4791

According to § 9 a.F.BW. a woman who marries has a right to use her husband's name as family name and to share his noble rank and title. That doesn't mean that she becomes a noble herself but she is treated like one officially and her children with her husband are noble by birth.

Interestingly the new law allows the same thing (sharing the title and rank of one's spouse) for the spouses of noble women as well as for spouses in a registered lifepartnership.

So officially according to this law Amalia's husband, once she is The Princess of Orange, can share her title and can become officially The Prince of Orange.... Of course his onw title as a Prince of the Netherlands will be higher then. As it is at the moment for Princess Maxima.

I wonder if he can become king by courtesy as well?
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  #170  
Old 03-07-2012, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
Sorry to bring that up again, but I'm still not convinced that Maxima will not be queen.
Maxima will be Queen.
In 2011 the Dutch parliament confirmed that when Prince Willem-Alexander ascends to the Throne, Princess Maxima will indeed bear the style and title and Her Majesty The Queen Consort of the Netherlands.
  #171  
Old 03-07-2012, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
Maxima will be Queen.
In 2011 the Dutch parliament confirmed that when Prince Willem-Alexander ascends to the Throne, Princess Maxima will indeed bear the style and title and Her Majesty The Queen Consort of the Netherlands.
I wasn't aware of that - that's good news! Thank you for the information, Artemisia.
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  #172  
Old 03-07-2012, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
I wasn't aware of that - that's good news! Thank you for the information, Artemisia.
You are welcome.
Your post was very interesting read. I am also very interested whether Amalia's husband will be King (Consort) or just Prince Consort. We will probably get the answer much sooner, when Victoria ascends to the Swedish Throne; if Daniel becomes her King Consort that will set precedence for spouses of other female Monarchs.
  #173  
Old 03-07-2012, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
You are welcome.
Your post was very interesting read. I am also very interested whether Amalia's husband will be King (Consort) or just Prince Consort. We will probably get the answer much sooner, when Victoria ascends to the Swedish Throne; if Daniel becomes her King Consort that will set precedence for spouses of other female Monarchs.
No, I don't think so. The Swedish language already has minted a word for Victoria and Daniel which makes clear that she is the Crown Princess and he her prince: Crown Princess Couple. Kronprinsessanparret. In a similar way they will become the Drottningparret - Queen Couple. Queen Victoria and her husband, prince Daniel. Honestly I don't see the need of a change here.

I really like the way the Dutchs have dealt with the problem of gender equality. For spouses (again: gender neutral) who marry a member if the Royal House, they get their own formal position and their own formal title. That is theirs, as long as they stay married or survive their spouse without a remarriage. According to the family law, they may share their spouse's rank and title but who's to say they have to? Isn't the easiest way to grant them their own place within the constitutional body of the Royal House and leave the rest to tradition or, if wanted, so leave it not to tradition?

Maxima is Princess Maxima of the Netherlands as well as
Maxima, Princess of "Willem of Oranje" or in short: The Princess of Oranje.
But once her husband will be king, it's a nice traditional thing to call her HM Queen Maxima of the Netherlands.

Amalia's husband, once she is heir apparent, will be Prince X of the Netherlands. He could be X, Prince of "Amalia of Oranje" or in short: The Prince of Oranje. But he doesn't have to use this title, as he has a perfectly fitting title of his own. So no need to use hers by courtesy, espceially as there is not tradition involved. The law says it's a right to use the spouse's title, not a necessity, after all.

I know that in Germany noble women either marry noble men or cease to use their titles after their marriage even though they could and could give it to their husbands. In the Netherlands the article said that the law of 1998 is contradictionary because it allows OTOH the spouses and even legal partners of noble women to use and share their spouses/partners title and rank but doesn't allow for the children of such marriages to become nobles by birth while even illegitimate children of noble men can be considered nobles... Gender equality? Hmmm....

The article mentioned a case where a son of a noble man and a noble woman (both noble by birth) decided to not go for his father's but for his mother's name - which is legal in The Netherlands. But he,e ven though both his parents were noble by birth, lost his nobility due to the fact that still children of noble women cannot inherit the nobility while even illegitimate children of noble fathers if they take on their father's name can.
What kind of law is that?

I wonder if there has been any legal judgment about a case concerning this?
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  #174  
Old 01-28-2013, 02:07 PM
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The prime minister refers in his speech to 'Queen Máxima'. So I guess this is settled.
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  #175  
Old 01-28-2013, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
The prime minister refers in his speech to 'Queen Máxima'. So I guess this is settled.
Thought that was sorted in 2011?
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  #176  
Old 01-28-2013, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Thought that was sorted in 2011?
Yes it was. Here is the thread about it.
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  #177  
Old 01-28-2013, 02:30 PM
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The Princess will be known as HM Queen Máxima,
King Willem IV and Queen Máxima.
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  #178  
Old 01-28-2013, 02:37 PM
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The Prime Minister has called Willem-Alexander as King Willem-Alexander.
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  #179  
Old 01-28-2013, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by principessa View Post
The Prime Minister has called Willem-Alexander as King Willem-Alexander.
He will be.

Princess Máxima has informed the Prime minister that her parents will not be in attendance on april 30th.
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  #180  
Old 01-28-2013, 02:49 PM
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Actually I think NOS have announced King Willem Alexander not Willem IV.
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