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  #81  
Old 05-02-2007, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliana
Shouldn't you have used this in your post? Are you actually being serious in describing my post as being "nonsense"?
Oh heck:
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  #82  
Old 05-02-2007, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
I back my statements with an Act, approved by both Chambers of the States-General and signed by Her Majesty herself on May the 30th 2002.

What is the backing for your expectation?

Article 6
2.
The title «Prince (Princess) of the Netherlands» can, by Royal Decree, exclusively be granted to the following members of the Royal House:
a. the male spouse or the female spouse of the King; - 1 -
b. children born in a marriage of the King; - 2 -
c. the male spouse or the female spouse to the Heir Apparent; - 3 -
d. children born in a marriage to the Heir Apparent. - 4 -

-1- this situation does not exist at the moment
-2- see Prince Willem-Alexander, see Prince Friso, see Prince Constantijn
-3- see Princess Máxima
-4- see Princess Catharina-Amalia, see Princess Alexia, see Princess Ariane
Common sense and a very strong gut feeling,despite nice words on paper that had to be used anyway,she will be HM Queen Máxima of The Netherlands.
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  #83  
Old 05-02-2007, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucien
Common sense and a very strong gut feeling,despite nice words on paper that had to be used anyway,she will be HM Queen Máxima of The Netherlands.
Where were the 'common sense and very strong gut feeling' when Princess Máxima became no 'Princess of Orange' and when the children of Prince Friso and Prince Constantijn were devalued to Counts and Countesses?

All on base of the same Act.
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  #84  
Old 05-02-2007, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Where were the 'common sense and very strong gut feeling' when Princess Máxima became no 'Princess of Orange' and when the children of Prince Friso and Prince Constantijn were devalued to Counts and Countesses?

All on base of the same Act.
I didn't have any at the time,this thread wasn't available then...
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  #85  
Old 05-02-2007, 10:10 AM
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Henri is right that the title-mess of the court at the present is unprecedented. van Vollenhoven, van Oranje-Nassau, van Oranje-Nassau van Vollenhoven, van Lippe Biesterfeld, van Lippe-Biesterfeld van Vollenhoven, van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg, der Nederlanden... princes, counts, untitled people, HRH's, HH's, Highborns, the plain Mr/iss and not to forget a Prof. Mr. too ...sigh.

So in the present chaos perhaps they will make Maxima a Grand Duchess, or even a Czarina
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  #86  
Old 05-02-2007, 12:00 PM
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I think Maxima will be Her Royal Highness Princess Consort, but in my opinion she should have the title Queen when her husband becomes King of the Netherlands
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  #87  
Old 05-02-2007, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Where were the 'common sense and very strong gut feeling' when Princess Máxima became no 'Princess of Orange' and when the children of Prince Friso and Prince Constantijn were devalued to Counts and Countesses?

All on base of the same Act.
Common sense is said to be the less common of senses , as proven in the Act, IMHO.
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  #88  
Old 05-02-2007, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
So in the present chaos perhaps they will make Maxima a Grand Duchess, or even a Czarina
Countess, Baroness, Marchioness, Dauphine, Lady...so many possibilities
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  #89  
Old 05-02-2007, 12:38 PM
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Ah, Dauphine! Now that instantly became my favourite! So three cheers for HRH Princess Maxima, Dauphine des Pays-Bas.
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  #90  
Old 05-02-2007, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
Ah, Dauphine! Now that instantly became my favourite! So three cheers for HRH Princess Maxima, Dauphine des Pays-Bas.

I love the word "Dauphine". We need to bring that back, starting with her. So I am on board the HRH Princess Maxima, Dauphine des Pays-Bas bandwagon.
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  #91  
Old 05-02-2007, 04:43 PM
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Interesting thread. Takes me back to the King Charles and Camilla, Princess Consort thing. Oh, without the adultry/divorce issue of course. The subject takes me back not the title.

Do you think any polls will be taken to get the people's opinion?
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  #92  
Old 05-02-2007, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry
Interesting thread. Takes me back to the King Charles and Camilla, Princess Consort thing. Oh, without the adultry/divorce issue of course. The subject takes me back not the title.

Do you think any polls will be taken to get the people's opinion?
The people's representatives in the First and the Second Chamber of the States-General have almost unanimously consented the Bill which determines the titulature in the Royal House.

The main focus was: since the succession is made equal and gender-free, the titles of the Sovereign, the Sovereign's spouse, the Heir Apparent and the Heir Apparent's spouse should also be made equal:

The King
& The Princess of the Netherlands

The Queen
& The Prince of the Netherlands

The Prince of Orange
& Princess [....] of the Netherlands

The Princess of Orange
& Prince [....] of the Netherlands

More equal than this is not possible, except for:

The King
& The Queen (= the wife of the Sovereign)

The Queen
& The King (= the husband of the Sovereign)

The Prince of Orange
& The Princess of Orange (= the wife of the Heir)

The Princess of Orange
& The Prince of Orange (= the husband of the Heiress)

The Government found this situation not desirable and thought the position of the real monarch and the real heir becomes very unclear in such a situation and therefore did not opt for the second situation.

By the way: Máxima can be called 'Queen Máxima'.
She already can be called 'The Princess of Orange'.
"By tradition and in the social interaction" as the Premier stated back in 2002. But in the past five years I have never heard an official reference to her as 'Her Royal Highness The Princess of Orange'. Never. Because this is reserved for a female Heiress to the throne.
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  #93  
Old 05-02-2007, 05:35 PM
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Ah, like Victoria of Sweden.
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  #94  
Old 06-12-2007, 04:46 AM
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Princess Maxima's future title

will maxima finally get the title of queen rather than still being princess? i know there was quite a bit of confusion about it and wonder if anything has been decided on maxima's title when beatrix abdicates...
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  #95  
Old 06-12-2007, 05:12 AM
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There is nothing about that until the situation will be there. We can make a lot of guesses. But there is an Act, which was in 2002 almost unanimoulsy consented by both Chambers which says the following:

Article 7 of the Royal House Act

The Heir Presumptive will bear the title 'Prince (Princess) of Orange' (Princess Catharina-Amalia)

Article 8 of the Royal House Act
  1. The Heir Presumptive, and the King who has abdicated, will bear the title 'Prince (Princess) of the Netherlands'. (Princess Catharina-Amalia, Princess Beatrix)
  2. The title 'Prince (Princess) of the Netherlands' can -only by Royal Decree- be granted to the following members of the Royal House exclusively:
    a. the male (female) spouse of The King; (Princess Máxima)
    b. children born in a marriage of The King; (Princess Alexia, Princess Ariane, Prince Constantijn, Princess Margriet)
    c. the male (female) spouse of the Heir Presumptive; (the spouse of Princess Catharina-Amalia)
    d. children born in a marriage of the Heir Presumptive.
    (the children of Princess Catharina-Amalia)
  3. The title 'Prince (Princess) of the Netherlands' will be lost, together with the loss of the membership of the Royal House.(Prince Friso)
Article 9 of the Royal House Act
  1. The King, the Heir Presumptive, and the King who has abdicated, will bear the title 'Prince (Princess) of Orange-Nassau'. (King Willem IV Alexander, Princess Catharina-Amalia, Princess Beatrix)
  2. The title 'Prince (Princess) of Orange-Nassau' can -by Royal Decree- exclusively be granted to members of the Royal House. (Princess Máxima, Princess Alexia, Princess Ariane, Prince Constantijn, Princess Margriet)
  3. The title 'Prince (Princess) of Orange-Nassau' will be lost, together with the loss of the membership of the Royal House. (Prince Friso)
  4. Within three months after the loss of the membership of the Royal House, a decision can be made by Royal Decree on the retaining of the title 'Prince (Princess) of Orange-Nassau' as a personal title. (Prince Friso)
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  #96  
Old 06-12-2007, 07:02 AM
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So Maxima could be referred to by any of the three titles and it would be correct? And I don't understand the "will be lost" - how will it be lost?

I vote for Queen Maxima!
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  #97  
Old 06-12-2007, 07:14 AM
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didn't we already have a thread on this? I kind of remember this argument before.
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  #98  
Old 06-12-2007, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubyPrincess168
So Maxima could be referred to by any of the three titles and it would be correct? And I don't understand the "will be lost" - how will it be lost?

I vote for Queen Maxima!
The membership of the Royal House can be lost in four ways:

- by having a descendance furtherer than thwo degrees of consanguity with The King (Article 1 Royal House Act)
This will happen to Countess Eloise, Count Claus-Casimir and Countess Leonore, when their uncle The Prince of Orange will succeed their grandmother The Queen (that is why they, in advance to this, were not created Princes or Princesses)

- by contracting a marriage without having obtained approval by Act of Consent (Article 28 Constitution)
This happened to Prince Friso when he married Ms Mabel Martine Wisse Smit

- by being excluded from the hereditary succession by Act if exceptional circumstances necessitate (Article 29 Constitution)
This has never happened in history. This can happen if Princess Catharina-Amalia would have been a Down Syndrome child or something.

- by divorcing a member of the Royal House (Article 2 Royal House Act)
This has never happened in history. This can happen when Princess Máxima divorces Prince Willem-Alexander. With the dicorce she will also cease to be a member of the Royal House.
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  #99  
Old 06-12-2007, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyK
didn't we already have a thread on this? I kind of remember this argument before.
Yes, we have,
The question of Maxima's title has been discussed in Princess Maxima's future title thread.
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  #100  
Old 06-12-2007, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
- by having a descendance furtherer than thwo degrees of consanguity with The King (Article 1 Royal House Act)
This will happen to Countess Eloise, Count Claus-Casimir and Countess Leonore, when their uncle The Prince of Orange will succeed their grandmother The Queen (that is why they, in advance to this, were not created Princes or Princesses)
I thought they would still be a member (like Maurits is now) because it is third degree (Het Koninklijk Huis)
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