The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #41  
Old 08-09-2006, 12:35 PM
lucien's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 6,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
Agreed, but i.e. Margriet's kids won't exactly inherit the Dutch throne in all likelyhood, so they can do as they please more or less and no one cares. Maxima on the other hand, will inherit the throne because of her husband's role as CP. It is the tradition since Willem van Oranje that the Oranje family is Protestants.
Sure this is 2006, but the sheer concept of monarchy is more akin to BC than to AD 2006. Do you suggest abolishing other traditions surrounding the Dutch monarchy as well while we're at it? How about we get rid of the who le thing while we're at it?

I'm playing devil's advocate here as I think Beatrix is doing an excellent job as monarch, but I think that this holding on to catholicism of Maxima's if her dear life depended on it, just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever, especially considering that in all other aspects, she makes it a point to let the world know she's drinking the royal koolaid hook, line and sinker.

The point is that traditionally, the Dutch throne is protestant. If we take traditions so lightly, why do we care about keeping the Dutch tradition of having a monarchy intact then, as well? I'm just saying that it would make sense if Maxima were consistent in this matter, that's all.
Ofcourse I do not wish the Monarchy to be abolished,heaven forbid Princess Olga.

And yes ofcourse,the Orange Nassaus are protestant since William the Silent,those that ruled as either Stadtholder or King that is,the spouses,well,one,was a different matter as Queen Anna Pavlovna remained Orthodox,didn't matter much then,prestige prevailed over denomination issues.Clinging on to catholicism for dear life?I think that is hugely exaggerated,she just doesn't have to,not for me,not for Alex,not for HM,for no-one at all.So why would it bother anyone else,except for the die hards in religious issues,and they are just not my kind.Always detested shortsightedness,and in the best of Orange Nassau traditions,I have an open eye and ear for all denominations and their views as long as they don't get pushy,or in dutch:drammerig.There's only one way then,mind your step and close the door.

The dutch Throne will remain protestant with Alexander,just his spouse isn't,I don't see any problem there,as the children will be educated within the protestant faith.Inconsistency is not the point here,she is free to believe whatever she likes,it's all embedded in the freedom of religion in this our proud little country.

And,no,I certainly would not wish for more traditions to be abolished,more then enough harm is already done over the decades in that respect,
we should cherish and protect what's left.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 08-09-2006, 02:33 PM
Henri M.'s Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eindhoven / Maastricht, Netherlands
Posts: 1,896
Protestantism and the Orange-Nassaus

Willem I of Nassau, Prince d'Orange (1533-1584) is not such a great hero of Protestantism as is often portrayed. His convertion was for 90% based on political calculation.

He was born at Dillenburg Castle in Nassau (in the west of Germany) in a Lutheran family. But when his uncle René de Nassau et Châlons , Prince d'Orange (1519-1544) died without issue, by testament his 11-years old cousin Willem of Nassau was made the rightful heir to the principality of Orange (in the south of France).

The young Prince was placed under personal custody of Emperor Charles V's sister Maria Queen of Hungary and Bohemia (1505-1558) who resided in Brussels as the Emperor's Governess over the Netherlands. He was raised in the Roman-Catholic tradition. He became a Knight in the Order of the Golden Fleece, the Emperor's personal page and counsel. He was one of the grandest nobles in the Netherlands and the Palais de Nassau in Brussels was famed for its lavish banquets, balls and grandeur.

In 1551 the Roman-Catholic Prince married (also Roman-Catholic) Anne of Egmond, Countess of Buren, general heiress of a dazzling fortune.

In 1561 the Prince married the lutheran Anna Princess of Saxony, daughter of the Kurfürst Moritz of Saxony. However King Philips II was 'not amused' about this mixed-marriage, the Prince himself remained Roman-Catholic.

In 1573 the Prince (in the meantime the leader of the rebellion against King Philips II) converted to Calvinism.

In 1575 the Prince the Huguenot Anne Princess de Bourbon et Montpensier, daughter of Louis III Duc de Bourbon et Montpensier.

In 1583 the Prince the Huguenot Louise de Coligny, daughter of Gaspard de Châtillon et Coligny, Amiral et Pair de France.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 08-09-2006, 07:44 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: san francisco, United States
Posts: 1,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucien
Ofcourse I do not wish the Monarchy to be abolished,heaven forbid Princess Olga.

And yes ofcourse,the Orange Nassaus are protestant since William the Silent,those that ruled as either Stadtholder or King that is,the spouses,well,one,was a different matter as Queen Anna Pavlovna remained Orthodox,didn't matter much then,prestige prevailed over denomination issues.Clinging on to catholicism for dear life?I think that is hugely exaggerated,she just doesn't have to,not for me,not for Alex,not for HM,for no-one at all.So why would it bother anyone else,except for the die hards in religious issues,and they are just not my kind.Always detested shortsightedness,and in the best of Orange Nassau traditions,I have an open eye and ear for all denominations and their views as long as they don't get pushy,or in dutch:drammerig.There's only one way then,mind your step and close the door.

The dutch Throne will remain protestant with Alexander,just his spouse isn't,I don't see any problem there,as the children will be educated within the protestant faith.Inconsistency is not the point here,she is free to believe whatever she likes,it's all embedded in the freedom of religion in this our proud little country.

And,no,I certainly would not wish for more traditions to be abolished,more then enough harm is already done over the decades in that respect,
we should cherish and protect what's left.
I see your point of view. But I admit that when it comes to these royal traditions, I am a bit of a conservative..as in, if we choose to have them, we should have them..no queen in jeans for me on Prinsjesdag, I say!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 08-09-2006, 07:51 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: san francisco, United States
Posts: 1,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Willem I of Nassau, Prince d'Orange (1533-1584) is not such a great hero of Protestantism as is often portrayed. His convertion was for 90% based on political calculation.
Very true, but the fact remains that since his convertion, protestantism has been the religion of the Oranjes. This tied with the fact that Willem van Oranje converting also coincided with the Dutch finding and defining themselves as a Nation state. These two things are intertwined in the national identity of the Dutch.

That, plus I'm a sucker for history, and this is one of the few areas where this unique moment in the history of that country is still revered in the way the Dutch royal family celebrates its relations with its church, and I happen to like that, that's all. I myself am from a catholic family, but I really am not in favor of the van Oranje family becoming anything other than the Protestants they currently are, again, because of the fascinating story behind their religion, that's all.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 08-14-2006, 05:44 PM
Marengo's Avatar
Administrator
Royal Blogger, TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 14,396
Well, I think they were usually not that serious about their religion and mainly became protestant out of opertunism (´The Hague isn´t worth a mass´ ).

Even Willem III, who is still regarded as a protestant hero by those Ulster men in Ireland had some deals with the vatican. And Queen Wilhelmina, who has this stern protestant image was attrackted by eastern religions, which is not quite the thing for staunch dutch reformed people. King Willem I, believed to be fiercely protestant married a catholic countess etc.

But I agree, I prefer the dynasty to be protestant as well, for history´s sake :)
__________________
TRF Rules and FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 08-15-2006, 12:05 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Posts: 30
I am sorry but that whole list (after no 10) is just rediculous IMO. Although I am sure that there are plenty of people out there (on the list) who actually find it a very big deal to be on it. To me it's just downright arcaic and silly. I suspect many if not all mainland royals actually do not give a hoot about that list and they certainly don't consider it when they choose their bride.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima, Current Events Part 1 (May 2013 - present) Marengo King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima and family 85 09-14-2014 05:45 PM
King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima's Visit to Russia; November 8-9, 2013 lucien King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima and family 30 11-12-2013 01:36 PM
King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima's Visits to the Provinces; May-June 2013 lucien Abdication & Inauguration 2013 47 06-22-2013 07:26 AM
Program of the Abdication of Queen Beatrix and Inauguration of King Willem-Alexander Princess Robijn Abdication & Inauguration 2013 4 03-19-2013 06:41 AM
Murder of King Willem II by his son, King Willem III? Marengo Dutch Royal History 6 09-27-2007 05:38 AM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria duchess of cambridge dutch royal history fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri infanta leonor infanta sofia jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg nobility olympic games ottoman pom pregnancy president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess anita princess astrid princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess mabel princess madeleine princess marilene princess mary princess mary fashion princess of asturias queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:02 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]