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  #21  
Old 03-30-2008, 02:18 PM
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Many of us are lucky enough to live in places where we don't have to worry about things like this.

I agree, if he knew what was going on, regardless of whether he supported it or not, Mr. Zorreguita was wrong. However, I also agree with the person who said it's not just black and white. I know that if I were in a position like his, I would be terrified to speak out. Especially if I had a family. What would happen to them? I think it would be a personally difficult thing of whether to do the right thing, or to keep my mouth shut.
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  #22  
Old 03-30-2008, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by acdc1 View Post
Many of us are lucky enough to live in places where we don't have to worry about things like this.

I agree, if he knew what was going on, regardless of whether he supported it or not, Mr. Zorreguita was wrong. However, I also agree with the person who said it's not just black and white. I know that if I were in a position like his, I would be terrified to speak out. Especially if I had a family. What would happen to them? I think it would be a personally difficult thing of whether to do the right thing, or to keep my mouth shut.

That´s what everybody did, shut up, and do as if nothing happened,except for the Mother of the dissapeared, who were the only brave ones to denounce what was going on. The rest of the population made as if nothing happened. If it didn´t happen to me why do i have to get involved? That´s what Argentinians now regret. As for Zorreguieta, how can you all be so naive, everyone knew people were dissapearing and poor Secretary of Agriculture was not aware of anything. Why do you believe so? Because he´s the father of the adorable Maxima? Let´s face it people, Mr. Zorreguieta shares the same extreme right ideology that was put into practice with dictatorships on several Latin American countries, (Chile,Paraguay, Bolivia ,Peru,etc.)with the support of the United states, coordinated by inteligence services (CIA included of course). And then the "Operation Condor" was carried on by which all the oppossed to these ideas were ELIMINATED. It is important to remember that these dictatorships wouldn´t have been successful without the external support.
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  #23  
Old 03-30-2008, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress View Post
Well, I don't think that Maxima ought to be stained by the actions of her father, over which she had no control.

I think that in her way, using her position, she is doing her best to right the wrongs of her father. Although not discussing it directly, as it would do not a bit of good for her to do that.

I agree. Maxima seems not only far more intelligent than her father but also a compassionate person. Maxima belongs to my generation, and she doesn´t seem the typical daughter of a military who inherites the familiar legacy (in thoughts and attitudes). She seems to have understood what happened as many of us did, "so as not to repeat the history".
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  #24  
Old 03-30-2008, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rosana View Post
Dictatorships on several Latin American countries, (Chile,Paraguay, Bolivia ,Peru,etc.)with the support of the United states, coordinated by inteligence services (CIA included of course). And then the "Operation Condor" was carried on by which all oppositors to these ideas were ELIMINATED. It is important to remember that these dictatorships wouldn´t have been successful without the external support.
De verdad,that is true Rosana.I referred to that in a previous post in this specific thread in the full sentence pointing at "friends" from "friendly states".
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  #25  
Old 03-31-2008, 07:05 AM
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Of course he new what was going on the whole country knew what was happening. But if I was in his position I'm honestly not sure what I would have done. Would I have spoke out or refused a position in government in a stand-off and at the same time risked my own life and that of my family?
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  #26  
Old 04-11-2008, 08:02 AM
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I agree full-heartedly with those who have questioned whether the sins of the father should be laid at the door of a child.

Aside from anything else, there are enough poor people out there who are 'scarred' by their childhoods, without us terrorising them after the fact.

With regards to Maxima & WA's children & the grandparents, I feel that it is only natural that they would want involvement in each others lives - I can tell you for a certainty that my life would have been much the poorer without my grandparents.

A question: Do we know how Maxima's father feels about his involvement?

And finally, is it the RF's public affiliation with Jorge, or the private one, which is most... controversial?
I'll admit that after I saw pictures of him at the Baptisms I was surprised, but that was only because I knew he hadnt attended the wedding, and had made assumptions about other public events (even, apparently, the 'private' ones). It is hardly something we hear much about in NZ!!!
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  #27  
Old 06-08-2010, 08:30 AM
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It is election time in the Netherlands. Tomorrow we will vote for a new government. Jorge Zorreguietta has become a (minor) issue in the campaign as yesteday during the NOVA, labour leader Job Cohen (former mayor of Amsterdam, who married WA & Maxima) was asked if Jorge . will be welcome during the enthronement ceremony of WA. Cohen said that he can imagine that Jorge Z. would attend te ceremony. This morning Prime Minister Balkenende (Christian Democrats) said that Cohen was not precise. You can't judge quickly about such matters, you have to consult the court and look at other complications. Mark Rutte, leader of the Liberal party said hat he agreed with Job Cohen.
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  #28  
Old 09-07-2011, 08:49 AM
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3 people have filed a complaint in Rotterdam against Jorge Zorreguieta today.

Aangifte tegen vader van prinses Máxima :: nrc.nl

the document:
http://www.nrc.nl/wp-content/uploads...definitief.pdf

He is accused of letting people disappear during the Videla regime.

The complained has been filed in the name of Ewa and her mother Alejandra Slutzky and by Matte Mourik. Mourik is the son of diplomat van Maarten Mourik, who tried to file a simular thing in 2001. Alejandra's father Samuel Slutzky, who was arrested in 1977 and never heard of again.

I believe that this compaint means that legally Mr. Zorreguieta has to be arrested when he comes to The Netherlands.

To be continued...
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  #29  
Old 09-08-2011, 03:43 AM
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Two articles in English;

1) from Radio Netherlands Worldwide:

Quote:
Videla victims sue Princess Máxima’s father

Samuel Leonardo Slutzky disappeared during the Argentinian Videla regime. His relatives are now planning to press charges against Jorge Zorreguieta – the father of Princess Máxima – in the Netherlands. Máxima is the wife of Dutch Crown Prince Willem-Alexander.
Lawyers Liesbeth Zegveld and Goran Sluiter announced on Wednesday that legal proceedings are being launched against Mr Zorreguieta, who was minister of agriculture during the Videla regime. He is accused of complicity in the disappearance of thousands of people in the period from 1976-1981.
The military junta that ruled Argentina in the 1970s was, according to Amnesty International, responsible for up to 30,000 deaths.
Read the entire article here.

2) From Dutchnews.nl:

Quote:
Princess Maxima's father faces new charges in Argentina

Wednesday 07 September 2011
The father of princess Maxima is facing new charges in connection with the disappearance of an Argentinian man during the junta period, news agency ANP reports on Wednesday.
Dutch lawyers representing the relatives of Samuel Leonardo Slutzky, who vanished in 1977, says charges are now possible following changes to the Dutch law.
Read more here.

------------------------------------

GDP Newspapers wonders if it is a cheap publicity stunt:

Met royale blik - ROYALBLOG.NL: Aanklacht tegen Zorreguieta: goedkope publiciteitsstunt?

The lawyer talks about 'guilt by association', but in that case why didn't they file a complaint against hundreds of other Argentinians Esp. since Zorreguietta is not involved with this murder at all.
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  #30  
Old 09-08-2011, 04:07 AM
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I hope this issue remains completely restricted to Maxima's father. Its his issue, not hers, since she only was a child when all these dreadful events happened and I doubt that his family knew in full scale what was going on (in case he was deeply involved indeed).

How Maxima supports her father in private is her business, but I hope that she or the NRF in general will refrain from some kind of sympathy statements (hopefully WA has learned from his ill-intended letter to the editor of a magazine regarding his father-in-law's past) - its an Argentinian issue, not an issue for the NRF to get involved in.
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  #31  
Old 09-10-2011, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
3 people have filed a complaint in Rotterdam against Jorge Zorreguieta today.

Aangifte tegen vader van prinses Máxima :: nrc.nl

the document:
http://www.nrc.nl/wp-content/uploads...definitief.pdf

He is accused of letting people disappear during the Videla regime.

The complained has been filed in the name of Ewa and her mother Alejandra Slutzky and by Matte Mourik. Mourik is the son of diplomat van Maarten Mourik, who tried to file a simular thing in 2001. Alejandra's father Samuel Slutzky, who was arrested in 1977 and never heard of again.

I believe that this compaint means that legally Mr. Zorreguieta has to be arrested when he comes to The Netherlands.

To be continued...
This is absolute bullocks! And ofcourse he will never be arrested when he comes to The Netherlands.It would be hypocrisy to a fault. Miss Slutzky stated: :' Every time Queen Beatrix waves and smiles it is Jorge Zorreguieta waving and smiling...." The hypocrisy on the matter is so rife,she decided to stay for that alone and have a go in the media and what not. Any ruling by any dutch court will be utterly rediculous and show what blithering hypocrites are. We always had warm and very strong bonds economically with Argentina, always, also also during the Videla regime. So how rediculous is it to first hold up your hand and cash in on the regime, and then tell they were naughty boys?

This is just another stunt by some overzealous new lawyer woman thing who wants some more spotlights by lack of any other attention.
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  #32  
Old 03-19-2012, 05:26 AM
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The Dutch attorny generals office has decided not to prosecute Jorge Zorreguieta.

OM vervolgt Jorge Zorreguieta niet

Not a surprise, this was predicted when the lawyers started this case (to get publicity for their law firm?).

According to the OM there are no signs that Jorge Zorreguieta knew about the disappearences of people. Neither can it be said that he was involved with them.

---
Considering it is odd that an Argentinean citizen can be trialed in The Netherlands for crimes commited in Argentina, I am happy with this decision. Perhaps the behind the lawsuit can try to get justice in Argentina?
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  #33  
Old 09-04-2012, 04:29 PM
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The leader of the labour party just responded in a debate for the elections to a question about Jorge Zorreguietta. According to Mr. Samson it should be possible for mr. Zorreguietta to attend an eventual enthronement. This is curious since only one year ago a member of the labour party said that that would not be possible.
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  #34  
Old 09-05-2012, 04:30 AM
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What happened to the reasons he could not attend the wedding of his daughter?
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  #35  
Old 09-07-2012, 09:53 AM
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What happened to the reasons he could not attend the wedding of his daughter?
They went out of the window it seems. Still, if the enthronement happens during mr. Zorreguieta's lifetime I hope mr. Zorreguieta will decline to attend himself, that way we can evade a long discussion about the topic & a stream of negativity around such a national event.
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  #36  
Old 09-07-2012, 02:23 PM
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indeed.



[QUOTE=Marengo;1458652]They went out of the window it seems. Still, if the enthronement happens during mr. Zorreguieta's lifetime I hope mr. Zorreguieta will decline to attend himself, that way we can evade a long discussion about the topic & a stream of negativity around such a national event.QUOTE]
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  #37  
Old 09-08-2012, 01:02 PM
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What happened to the reasons he could not attend the wedding of his daughter?
Well her father has never been prosecuted in any court in Argentina or The Netherlands, and the Dutch government maintained good relations with the Videla regime during its years in power so it would seem rather hypocritical at this stage of the game for the Dutch to deny him attendance at his son in laws future investiture. He has already attended the baptism of his granddaughters in The Netherlands without any great uproar.
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  #38  
Old 09-08-2012, 06:39 PM
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The way that was spinned was that the baptism was a private event, and at the time of the wedding the Prime Minister already said that Mr. Zorreguieta was not a persona non grata. He also attended the 40th birthdays of his son-in-law and daughter. An enthronement will of course be a state event. So for that the same logic as was used in 2002 should be applied, nothing changed in the mean time in regards to Mr. Zorreguieta's past, as was written in the report by Michiel baron Baud.
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  #39  
Old 09-08-2012, 07:42 PM
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If the baptisms were a private family event why were they broadcast on television and why have state officials in attendance? 10+ years after the marriage no charges have ever been filed against him in his home country or in The Natherlands. So far his crime seems to be that he was a Minister in a government that the Dutch government maintained full diplomatic and trade relations with. Do the Dutch feel guilty that they never imposed any sanctions of their own against the Argentine junta?
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  #40  
Old 09-09-2012, 07:55 AM
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It is of no importance that the baptism of Ariane was on tv.

Holland has always been tolerant through the centuries, they accepted fugitive jews and catholics (very often the elite) not in the first place because of moral reasons or christian charity but because it was just plain good business.

The role of our royals, that is the reason why I feel patriotic when I see them and sing Oranje boven is because they stand for the best of Holland, that of which we are proud.

What happened during the Videla regime is entirely un-Dutch and on state occasions he should not be present.

I might not have put this well because I am in a hurry, but basically that is how I see it.




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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
If the baptisms were a private family event why were they broadcast on television and why have state officials in attendance? 10+ years after the marriage no charges have ever been filed against him in his home country or in The Natherlands. So far his crime seems to be that he was a Minister in a government that the Dutch government maintained full diplomatic and trade relations with. Do the Dutch feel guilty that they never imposed any sanctions of their own against the Argentine junta?
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