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  #141  
Old 11-30-2006, 08:46 AM
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The Princess of Orange

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
I do not think either Anna Pavlovna or Sophie of Wurttemberg were the epithomy of style and grace either :) Not to mention poor Mary Stuart (II), to which nature hadn't been very kind.

We can start another discussion about wether or not Maxima is the Princess of Orange (both the state as the court do not name her such), but that doesn't add anything to the discussion.
Mabel Martine Wisse-Smit has become HRH Princess Mabel of Orange-Nassau by virtue of her marriage to HRH Prince Friso of Orange-Nassau.

Petra Laurentien Brinkhorst has become HRH Princess Laurentien of the Netherlands by virtue of her marriage to HRH Prince Constantijn of the Netherlands.

Doesn't Máxima Zorreguieta Cerruti have the same right to be HRH The Princess of Orange by virtue of her marriage to HRH The Prince of Orange?

Máxima's position as wife to The Prince of Orange, is no other position as Wilhelmina of Prussia, Anna Paulovna of Russia or Sophie of Württemberg, etc. had. All of them were spouses to a Prince of Orange as well.
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  #142  
Old 11-30-2006, 06:13 PM
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Princesses and ordinary ladies

When the headmaster requests the concierge to wave the flag with orange pennant, when the pupils are forced outside to wave with little flags, when the local brassband is in line and the mayor has extra polished his silver chain, all a bit nervous awaiting high visit....

Not 'just' high visit, no.... a royal visit...

Then there comes a motorcade with a shiny darkblue royal Volvo-limousine, with an AA-numberplate and the personal standard waving. The limousine is followed by other blue Volvo's with the accompanying escorte. It is an impressive sight.

And there the chauffeur opens the door of the main limousine and salutes. A shoe sticks out, a glimpse of a skirt and there she is! With a wonderful hat, elegantly gloved and holding a purse.... Her Royal Highness Princess Máxima of the Netherlands.



Full of grace and stylish as was she the reïncarnation of Audrey Hepburn, the Princess receives a hand from the mayor and greets the little flowergirl, awaiting her on the red carpet.



Thát is how it always has been. Now the same limousine arrives, a lady with a wrinkled johnnie-&-anita tigerprint dress and a ravaged hairdo steps out of the car and eeeeerh.... that actually seems to be the future Queen...

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  #143  
Old 11-30-2006, 06:46 PM
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Maxima certainly has her bad days, and I'm the first to yell at her for her messy hair (get a good cut!), those awful t-strap shoes (don't get me started) and the need for a little microdermabrasion or something to help with the sun damage. But her bad days are rarer than her good days, and she even pulls off the occassional great look which makes me wonder how the same person bought such disparate outfits. For example:
.http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/7124...7C5022FB410D56
and this
http://www.anp-photo.com/downloadpic....pp?id=4063499

Hat, gloves - very old-fashioned. I think hats are very flattering if done right. And they're perfectly appropriate for certain formal occassions. But for most events it can look odd.

On her tour of Aruba and the Antilles, the Queen went around in stiff hat, stiff gloves, stiff hair, stiff shoulderpads and the look was dated and unflattering, like a museum piece. I like Beatrix (what I know of her), but she really needs to update her look a little. I'm not talking pants at court functions, just something a little more relatable for most viewers.

I think Maxima (and the other princesses) have done a fairly good juggling act of modernizing old traditional customs. And as a previous poster noted, she does good work. I still think she could polish her appearance more, but overall: Yeah Maxima!
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  #144  
Old 11-30-2006, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3
On her tour of Aruba and the Antilles, the Queen went around in stiff hat, stiff gloves, stiff hair, stiff shoulderpads and the look was dated and unflattering, like a museum piece. I like Beatrix (what I know of her), but she really needs to update her look a little. I'm not talking pants at court functions, just something a little more relatable for most viewers.
Oh no, the Queen can't change! She wouldn't be our 'Trix' any longer. You must understand that she has worked all those years at building this image with the hair, the hat and the shoulderpads. With all these things she has become a real symbol for our country and if she'd dropped or updated any of these, I would be quite dissapointed...

I find this Maxima discussion very interesting, btw. Times change, you know and royals change with them. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. And when it gets really bad (Maxima wearing a leopard print, golden ankle strap shoes, her hair in a pink beehive and two really big golden earrings in her ears) there probably will be a switch to the other side again. Or not. But we all still keep breathing (at least I will) and watching the royals. And maybe only for the fact that I sometimes really have the time of my life behind my computer, visiting this forum and seeing the various opinions going round in circles over and over again...
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  #145  
Old 11-30-2006, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Full of grace and stylish as was she the reïncarnation of Audrey Hepburn, the Princess receives a hand from the mayor and greets the little flowergirl, awaiting her on the red carpet.
Well if you'd rather see Audrey Hepburn, I'll gladly lend you a shovel. I'd rather go with Maxima and the 21st century myself.
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  #146  
Old 11-30-2006, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucien
Why?
First:Because since her marriage she's properly addressed as HRH Princess Máxima of the Netherlands,Henry's disdain is strictly his own and doesn't reflect the general mood/view in the Country.

Second;Henri,nice as he can be,has this thing with the Princess,it's either Himmelhoch Jauchzend or zum Tode betrübt,"Our Chica Latina" or the messy hairball,it all depends on Henri's mood swings you see.On other boards we're used to that,here it might be a novelty.

Three:The Princess remains herself,once applauded for doing so by our dear co-poster.Allthough I love to see her hair in a knot during a gala,to have it that way all the time would make her look like something of a swedish governess,it would be dubbed as "frumpy" then.

Thank god the majority of the dutch love her how she is,but then unfortunately not all of them are registered at TRF,so you just have to take it from me and some others here....
I see, but I don't think we are addressing her in person so I really don't see the harm. However, I do respect your opinion.
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  #147  
Old 12-01-2006, 02:42 AM
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Current events

Well, for the coming current events I do hope that Máxima will sit down and make her mind up: who am I? What am I doing here? What is my position in this country? Why is it that do I belong to the world's most privileged persons?

And then I hope she will review her own role and her own performance. I have the idea that, because she did not grew up in a monarchy, she has no idea what it is and is confusing it with any ordinary celebrity.

Let us await and see, there will be a calm period around Christmas and then she will disappear for the birth of her newest baby. I hope we will see a renewed, more polished, better dressed and more princessely acting Máxima.
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  #148  
Old 12-02-2006, 08:17 AM
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IMO this discussion has become utterly rediculous. It seems that some here would prefer a doll from a shopwindow as Princess then an actual human being. Just shut up, show a cool smile, never show any emotion, be pretty, wear gloves and never laugh or show a bit of humanity (though I remember that some here critisized another crownprincess not to long ago for these very reasons).

I prefer a human being, an intelligent educated woman who seems to be able to 'connect' with people, has a strong charisma, seems to have a genuine interest in the world around her, is a great mother, wife and daughter-in-law. I find that all MUCH more 'royal' or 'princessy' then a doll from a shop window.

Maybe the Dutch should start an IHA as well, I am sure they would know how to beat any sense of humanity out of any woman, including Maxima & will turn her into the perfect robot that some here seem to prefer.
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  #149  
Old 12-02-2006, 10:49 AM
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Maybe the Dutch should start an IHA as well, I am sure they would know how to beat any sense of humanity out of any woman, including Maxima & will turn her into the perfect robot that some here seem to prefer.

I agree, and have a designated "royal bearer of the hair spray can" by every exit so an appropriate dose can be administered before she leaves the house. That will keep all brain cells in the royal head from escaping out through loose hair. That should keep the ungrateful woman in her place and extinguish that megawatt smile before someone thinks she has something to be happy about.
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  #150  
Old 12-02-2006, 11:48 AM
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WELL SAID, Marengo! I couldn't agree with you more.

What makes Maxima a complete success, in my opinion, is that she has connected with people.

It seems to me that the basis for this neverending argument is that some of us on this forum are advocates for tradition, and some for modernity. If you listen to all the posts here, that is what it comes down to.

I prefer the modernity of the European Houses- modernity defined by Crown Princes marrying non-royal women but women that they truly love. Modernity defined by these new Crown Princesses exerting influence over the causes they support and their public image. Modernity defined by the endless images we see of these Crown Princesses making real connections with people, young and old, and gaining the love of their nations.

On this basis, I think that Maxima, Mary, Mette Marit, Mathilde, Camilla and to some measure, Letizia, are all great successes.

We have also seen the tragedy that results when need for tradition clashes repeatedly over the desire for moderninty. We now have a Japanese Crown Princess who has so much talent, intelligence and warmth that has been extinguished and she has been seemingly, forced into mental health problems as a result.

Clearly, some on this forum prefer tradition over modernity. That's OK- it might be interesting to hear more about WHY rather than just what is not liked about Maxima. I, for one, would like to understand your perspective better.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
IMO this discussion has become utterly rediculous. It seems that some here would prefer a doll from a shopwindow as Princess then an actual human being. Just shut up, show a cool smile, never show any emotion, be pretty, wear gloves and never laugh or show a bit of humanity (though I remember that some here critisized another crownprincess not to long ago for these very reasons).

I prefer a human being, an intelligent educated woman who seems to be able to 'connect' with people, has a strong charisma, seems to have a genuine interest in the world around her, is a great mother, wife and daughter-in-law. I find that all MUCH more 'royal' or 'princessy' then a doll from a shop window.

Maybe the Dutch should start an IHA as well, I am sure they would know how to beat any sense of humanity out of any woman, including Maxima & will turn her into the perfect robot that some here seem to prefer.
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  #151  
Old 12-02-2006, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azile
WELL SAID, Marengo! I couldn't agree with you more.

What makes Maxima a complete success, in my opinion, is that she has connected with people.

It seems to me that the basis for this neverending argument is that some of us on this forum are advocates for tradition, and some for modernity. If you listen to all the posts here, that is what it comes down to.

I prefer the modernity of the European Houses- modernity defined by Crown Princesses marrying non-royal women but women that they truly love. Modernity defined by these new Crown Princesses exerting influence over the causes they support and their public image. Modernity defined by the endless images we see of these Crown Princesses making real connections with people, young and old, and gaining the love of their nations.


On this basis, I think that Maxima, Mary, Mette Marit, Mathilde, Camilla and to some measure, Letizia, are all great successes.

We have also seen the tragedy that results when need for tradition clashes repeatedly over the desire for moderninty. We now have a Japanese Crown Princess who has so much talent, intelligence and warmth that has been extinguished and she has been seemingly, forced into mental health problems as a result.

Clearly, some on this forum prefer tradition over modernity. That's OK- it might be interesting to hear more about WHY rather than just what is not liked about Maxima. I, for one, would like to understand your perspective better.
Excellent post, I totally agree.
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  #152  
Old 12-02-2006, 12:18 PM
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Royal standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
Just shut up, show a cool smile, never show any emotion, be pretty, wear gloves and never laugh or show a bit of humanity (though I remember that some here critisized another crownprincess not to long ago for these very reasons).
That is their 'job', Marengo: shut up and be pretty.

Is there any other woman in the world who gets an annual own budget of € 819.000,-- (appr. $ 1,100,000.--) for just 'being the wife of'? There are no any requirements. No education is asked. No experience is needed. No blue blood is needed. The religion is unimportant. The only requirement is that a guy, who happens to be The Prince of Orange gets a crush on you, and marries you.

And then you suddenly gets an annual income or $ 1,100,000.--. For just being 'the wife of'. That's all. Thanks to the friendly Dutch taxpayers. Please, may I measure her with the highest standards, royal standards, and not need to compare her with my sister or the caissière in my local supermarket?
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  #153  
Old 12-02-2006, 02:12 PM
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I disagree with you, Henri.

The job of a princess is not to shut up and be pretty. It might have been 100 years ago, but that is not the case in our modern world.

Princesses now have a diverse job description that includes the following:

- choosing a portfolio of charities to support and becoming directly involved with these charities
- choosing specific social causes to support and bringing visibility, understanding and attention to these causes (through direct involvement)
- supporting local fashion industry by wearing local fashion
- becoming a voice for members of society who are underpriviledged, disinfranchised, isolated and vulnerable
- becoming a domestic AND international ambassador (international travel, state visits,wide variety of special events)where she officially represents her country
- raising well-adjusted children who are ready for roles of imposed public service- parenting challenged by these youngsters growing up under intense media spotlight.
- completely giving up ALL of her personal/career aspirations and going to work for the state- full time (7 days a week, 24 hours a day).

If you want to dispute salaries that royals are paid, that is a separate matter. If you want to dispute that the Crown Princesses do not have any official role, expectations or responsibilities beyond being state puppets, I think you are completely out of touch with current reality.

Maybe you would prefer things they way they were years ago, under a more traditional model of royal life and roles?
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  #154  
Old 12-02-2006, 02:21 PM
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I can't believe some of the things that are said about a number of the crown princesses-especially Maxima! She is, IMO, a very hardworking woman, she takes interest in what she is doing, she is in touch with the people, she is always smiling and presents a good image. What I like about Maxima is that she isn't skinny, she is a normal woman, her clothes may not always be to everybodys liking, but that doesn't matter. The fact is she does what she is expected and she does it well!

I hope I don't offend anybody with what I said, but I don't understand what she has done wrong

Sofia

Edit: I'm not Dutch, so obviously I can't speak for the Dutch people. But this is just the impression of Maxima that I get from pictures and news
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  #155  
Old 12-02-2006, 02:32 PM
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Azile

I agree with your post, and I think to some extent Princesses a hundred years ago were suppose to do more than stand around pretty. I know the British Royal Family a little better than the Dutch, but a majority of those women 100 200 years a go were invovled with chairty, they travelled, they repersented there countries, many of them trained in jobs such as nurses and well most had nannies to raise there children in some cases they were actively invovled. The were patrons of the arts, spoke for the disinfranchised (especially in that case former soilders) I think the job has just evovled, but there was always more to it than standing around a looking pretty.
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  #156  
Old 12-02-2006, 02:50 PM
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Thanks, Oppie. You make a very good point- I don't think there has ever been a time when princesses did nothing at all. As I think about this more, it seems that there have always been social responsibilities for princesses. Thanks so much for pointing this out!

I also agree with you, Sofia- I don't understand what Maxima has done to receive such criticism. When I look at the "job description" I listed above, she does all of these things really well. I think she's done a fantastic job of becoming royal, maintaining her personality and personal passions and balancing private and public life.

Azile
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  #157  
Old 12-02-2006, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azile
WELL SAID, Marengo! I couldn't agree with you more.

What makes Maxima a complete success, in my opinion, is that she has connected with people.

It seems to me that the basis for this neverending argument is that some of us on this forum are advocates for tradition, and some for modernity. If you listen to all the posts here, that is what it comes down to.

I prefer the modernity of the European Houses- modernity defined by Crown Princes marrying non-royal women but women that they truly love. Modernity defined by these new Crown Princesses exerting influence over the causes they support and their public image. Modernity defined by the endless images we see of these Crown Princesses making real connections with people, young and old, and gaining the love of their nations.

On this basis, I think that Maxima, Mary, Mette Marit, Mathilde, Camilla and to some measure, Letizia, are all great successes.

We have also seen the tragedy that results when need for tradition clashes repeatedly over the desire for moderninty. We now have a Japanese Crown Princess who has so much talent, intelligence and warmth that has been extinguished and she has been seemingly, forced into mental health problems as a result.

Clearly, some on this forum prefer tradition over modernity. That's OK- it might be interesting to hear more about WHY rather than just what is not liked about Maxima. I, for one, would like to understand your perspective better.
You make a good point azile. Someone who is interested in the modernity of royalty may have a very different opinion of a particular royal than someone who is interested in the tradition of royalty.

Speaking as someone who prefers the tradition of royalty, I live in New York, the one city that is totally dedicated to modernity, progress, and change. Honestly I love it. There is always something to do here and something new to see because the city keeps changing all the time.

But as invigorating as it is, so much change and modernity can wear on the nerves. Although New York is one of the oldest cities in the U.S. it is infamous for tearing down old landmarks and institutions to build the next new novelty. The city has much less of architecture from the last century much less from the 1600s when the city was founded. Even my own block looks vastly different from when I moved here 15 years ago.

Change and modernity is all around us and will always be here because civilization is bound to always evolve and change. Yet tradition is much more fragile and and a connection to the past doesn't survive unless someone actively makes it their objective. I follow royalty because I'm surrounded by modernity every day and its hard to find an institution outside of royalty that does honor tradition.

In addition to your excellent point, I also think there is a difference between people who are impressed by royals who appear intimate and approachable in public and people like myself who aren't necessarily impressed. I work with marketing and sales people and many people I met who were friendly and seemingly open when they were in front of a group of people for a short amount of time turned out to be extremely distant and noncommunicative when they were in a one on one situation or when they were with people over a long period of time. That doesn't mean that they're necessarily bad people or fake but it does mean I don't assume that if I knew one of these princesses privately, that they would appear as warm and friendly as they do on camera.

I don't consider it a negative that a princess appears warm but I don't give the princess extra kudos for appearing friendly in front of the cameras. I'd have to see them act that way when no camera is around to give them the kudos and its not possible.

I know I don't speak for everyone that follows royalty for the tradition but I hope that explains a little.

Thanks for bringing up the question. You made me think of things I haven't thought before.
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  #158  
Old 12-02-2006, 03:05 PM
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There are a few things I would like to add:

-Máxima came into this country and she's here to stay, so we'd better get used to it, don't you all think?

-The Netherlands have evolved since the 1900's: women have voting rights nowadays and the 'shutting up and being pretty' nonsense is already way behind us and I suppose this goes also for a princess with an academic background.

-I agree that Maxima sometimes could look better (buy a comb for instance) but to compare her with a cassiere is a bit ridiculous, isn't it? Or there have to be a few really good looking cassieres in some parts of the country I'm not aware of.
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Old 12-02-2006, 03:10 PM
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Shut up and be pretty?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
That is their 'job', Marengo: shut up and be pretty.

Is there any other woman in the world who gets an annual own budget of € 819.000,-- (appr. $ 1,100,000.--) for just 'being the wife of'? There are no any requirements. No education is asked. No experience is needed. No blue blood is needed. The religion is unimportant. The only requirement is that a guy, who happens to be The Prince of Orange gets a crush on you, and marries you.

And then you suddenly gets an annual income or $ 1,100,000.--. For just being 'the wife of'. That's all. Thanks to the friendly Dutch taxpayers. Please, may I measure her with the highest standards, royal standards, and not need to compare her with my sister or the caissière in my local supermarket?
Well Henri, may I ask you why do you think this?
Why do you think she should "shut up and be pretty" ?

Because of she gets her own budget of $ 1,100,000, she has to do something. Because then tabloids would call her "lazy."

She makes big work for Netherlands- The Royal Forums is international forum because princes and princesses are making their job and they are making monarchies in 21.st century useful. They are not just stupid figureheads, which can smile on official state visits.

I don't know why you are so disgusted by "unblueblooded" Maxima. She married Prince of Orange and she got wonderful chance to make something good for all.
God, some people just wants to have that chance!

So, please think about her work- she is pregnant, but she is making her duties. She is making them, when she is ill, when she is unhappy. She has to be mother for her two lovely girls- princesses. Also she gave to Netherlands crown princess.

You can think everything what you want, but buget of $ 1,100,000 is so awkward sum, when you know, she gives her life to Netherlands and she will always princess which belongs to Dutch people.
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Old 12-02-2006, 03:27 PM
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Mims, very well said!

There's always this moment when discussions about royalty get to the point where one side starts talking about the poor tax payer. I wish people would get over it. The royal family only costs me a few euro every year and look what I get for it: an intelligent woman who does a great job for several good causes. What would be the alternative? An Audrey Hepburn look-a-like? A clothes horse? Someone who uses more hair spray than Queen B. herself to get her hair to stay perfect, even in a storm? A woman who doesn't have any opinion or personality at all, but thank god, she wears gloves and her father is some German prince? Come on. There's nothing wrong with not liking how Maxima looks, but one can make such a big thing out of it that it looks like it's a mere personal crusade than an opinion at all.
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