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  #81  
Old 11-19-2006, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Come on. She is just a celeb for most of the Dutch people. No one sees her a as a Royal Highness.
Seriously? I thought poll after poll showed the Dutch like her more than they like the queen? Then again, you do have a point here: the line of royals vs. celebs is getting blurred there, which makes sense overall. What is a royal but a government-sponsored celeb, in a way?
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  #82  
Old 11-19-2006, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.

I have given Máxima again and again the chance to take away my disappointment and scepticism. But she is often too messy, too loud, too unpolished, too unelegant, too clumsy. God knows she is a fantastic person. But for me she is no Princess of Orange.

Her public performances have declined in the last months. The Australian and New Zealand-trip, so hyped in the media, phew.... Máxima was a walking disgrace. That her sister-in-law Laurentien might have a strange taste, okay. But Máxima... she is the future Queen, the Princess of Orange, for God's sake. I think that besides the Princess of Wales, no any other Princess has such a budget, staff and other means to her display as the Princess of Orange. She does nothing with it. Eternal shame.

When I watched some interviews done in Australia/NZ with her I was actually the opposite of disappointed. Yes her hair was messy, which makes her look like an immature high school girl at times, but the content of her message was cohesive, to the point, diplomatic, and the content was spot-on. I'm the first person to be sceptical about Maxima, believe me, but I have found that when I look at the actual content of her message, she is definitely doing ok. In the looks department, sure, there is room for improvement. In that sense, a Mary or Mathilde she ain't. No inborn regalness if you will. Too bad she doesn't have the poise of Mathilde and her own well-working brain. That would be the ideal combo, but then again, it is what it is.
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  #83  
Old 11-19-2006, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Máxima Zorreguieta Cerruti is a fantastic woman. She lightens up a room when she enters it. Her 10.000 megawatt smile is infectuous.
when I first saw pictures of her and her smile, it sure seemed over the top to me, and fake fake fake. Now I'm thinking the woman may well just <be> this way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
When the Prince of Orange came home with her, I was very disappointed. I really hoped the Prince would date someone like Mathilde d'Udekem d'Acoz.
Ah, that makes two!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
I have given Máxima again and again the chance to take away my disappointment and scepticism. But she is often too messy, too loud, too unpolished, too unelegant, too clumsy. God knows she is a fantastic person. But for me she is no Princess of Orange.

I do think there is hope there, if only, as Marengo pointed out, for the sheer fact this is a woman with a vision, and not a bad one at that. I've also noticed that what I first perceived as fake, namely her interest in people, is actually real, or it seems that way.

I do think she and her hubby often wanted to have their cake and eat it, big time, and they did! what with tons of vacations a year in the past, but I also think they are starting to step up to the plate and put in a reasonable amount of work for the generous 'uitkering' they receive from their country, for being its ambassadors. (they better! ) So if they keep on trucking the way they're doing currently, they're doing quite well.
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  #84  
Old 11-19-2006, 06:52 PM
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What do you mean with tons of vacations Princess_Olga? Are you referring to an article that apeared some years ago in the yellow-press (Prive if I recall correctly), who listed the holidays of the crownprincely couple. If so: 1) Most of the 'vacations' were just a weekend, 2) whatever they do in their own time is their own matter. As long as they are representing the country a fair number of times (as they are doing) I do not care how much holidays they have. 3) If that impression comes from 'Prive' I have to say that that is not the most reliable source.

I think that the reason Maxima apeared less in public in the beginning of her marriage then now is simply that she did what the court anounced: orientate herself on dutch society, mosly behind the scenes. The Prince of Orange had a comparable amount of duties before his mariage to now IMO.
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  #85  
Old 11-20-2006, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.

When the Prince of Orange came home with her, I was very disappointed. I really hoped the Prince would date someone like Mathilde d'Udekem d'Acoz. But at least I was happy he did not fell in love with an unwed mother like in Norway.

I have given Máxima again and again the chance to take away my disappointment and scepticism. But she is often too messy, too loud, too unpolished, too unelegant, too clumsy. God knows she is a fantastic person. But for me she is no Princess of Orange.


^

Why do you say she does not acts like a Princess of Orange? How should a Princess of Orange be???
So now tell me, why is Máxima popular in the Netherlands and in Latin America(especially in Argentina?)?
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  #86  
Old 11-20-2006, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Maxima
^

Why do you say she does not acts like a Princess of Orange? How should a Princess of Orange be???
So now tell me, why is Máxima popular in the Netherlands and in Latin America(especially in Argentina?)?
Popularity says nothing. Maradona is popular. Madonna is popular. Máxima is popular. They are popular because they belong to the happy few, to the rich and famous.

Maybe Máxima would even become more popular when she will sit on a bull and compete in a rodeo. That does not mean a Princess of Orange should do so. I can not explain it. It is simply how I think, what I feel and expect from those extremely privileged people who are one of the most premier families in our country for more than 600 years.
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  #87  
Old 11-20-2006, 11:46 AM
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I love Maxima because she has retained her personality throughout her "princess" training. I can not imagine any event that she attends that is not brightened by her smile. She is also very bright and hardworking. William-Alexander pick a very suitable wife.
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  #88  
Old 11-20-2006, 12:03 PM
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Excuse my ignorance, HenryM , but I don't really get it..

I was reading through the "what's your opinion about Mary" thread and read several times that you admire the way Máxima behaves (e.g. in front of the camera) much better then Mary's...
Now I have to read that you don't like the way Máxima presents herself at all...
Can you please explain this to me. Thanks
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  #89  
Old 11-20-2006, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Maxima
^

Why do you say she does not acts like a Princess of Orange? How should a Princess of Orange be???
So now tell me, why is Máxima popular in the Netherlands and in Latin America(especially in Argentina?)?
I don´t think Maxima is popular in Argentina,most of argentinians don´t care about her because they don´t care of royalty; i believe she´s respected, but there´s not a real interest for her.
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  #90  
Old 11-20-2006, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Her_Majesty
Excuse my ignorance, HenryM , but I don't really get it..

I was reading through the "what's your opinion about Mary" thread and read several times that you admire the way Máxima behaves (e.g. in front of the camera) much better then Mary's...
Now I have to read that you don't like the way Máxima presents herself at all...
Can you please explain this to me. Thanks
No, I can not explain it. Máxima brings the worst in me since a few months. I feel she is a disgrace as a Princess of Orange. I wished we had Mathilde. The Belgians may keep Máxima.
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  #91  
Old 11-20-2006, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
No, I can not explain it. Máxima brings the worst in me since a few months. I feel she is a disgrace as a Princess of Orange. I wished we had Mathilde. The Belgians may keep Máxima.
Oh, okay. I've just been intersted in this. But I think I can understand what's disturbing you.
Anyway, I think Máxima does quite a good job so far. Maybe she still has to learn alot from her mother-in-law.
I once heard that Beatrix needed quite a long time until the Dutch accepted her as the next Queen of NL.
I heard that the Dutch were quite sceptical... So maybe it's the same story with Máxima...

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  #92  
Old 11-20-2006, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Her_Majesty
Oh, okay. I've just been intersted in this. But I think I can understand what's disturbing you.
Anyway, I think Máxima does quite a good job so far. Maybe she still has to learn alot from her mother-in-law.
I once heard that Beatrix needed quite a long time until the Dutch accepted her as the next Queen of NL.
I heard that the Dutch were quite sceptical... So maybe it's the same story with Máxima...

Princess Beatrix was seen as cold, arrogant, distant, aloof and exalted, especially in comparison with her so-called 'so common' mother Queen Juliana. But always and ever, until today's day, as a Princess and as Queen, she has laid the limit very high. Her perfectionism is known (and feared). She is constantly aware of the expectations and she knows exactly what kind of impression she wants to make.

Princess Máxima has her vibrant smile, her exuberant personality. Her image is completely build on that. But only on that. She seems not aware of what she is and how people should see her and what impression she wants to make. There is no consistent line in her appearances. Then she looks like an exploded birthday cake, then she is the epitome of style, then she looks like an overweight giggling schoolgirl, then she is in powerdress again.

I wished she would look to examples like the Princess of Hannover, Queen Beatrix or Princess Mathilde and learn that she is Her Royal Highness The Princess of Orange, 24 hours a day and 7 days a week. And certainly during a two-weeks public visit.
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  #93  
Old 11-20-2006, 03:36 PM
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no thanks

More like Princess Caroline or Mathilde? No THANKS! I would like her to keep her spontaneous charm. It's what has made her so popular with the dutch people.

I don't want a stiff, boring princess, who only cares about outward appearances. We are not living in the 18th century or in the fifties anymore. Thank god.

Henri, your criticism makes no sense to me whatsoever. Saying she's just a celeb is just utter nonsense. That way, all royals are 'just celebs'. It seems to me that it's not Maxima who doesn't know how she is seen by 'the people', but it's you who seems to have lost track of how most people view her. Most people really don't care much about her clothes and jewelry and outward appearance. They care about her warmth and spontaneous character. And there is nothing wrong with popularity based on that. People are popular for different reasons. Just like people are all DIFFERENT. it doesn't make one thing right and the other thing wrong.
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  #94  
Old 11-20-2006, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prinsesbeagle
More like Princess Caroline or Mathilde? No THANKS! I would like her to keep her spontaneous charm. It's what has made her so popular with the dutch people.

I don't want a stiff, boring princess, who only cares about outward appearances. We are not living in the 18th century or in the fifties anymore. Thank god.

Henri, your criticism makes no sense to me whatsoever. Saying she's just a celeb is just utter nonsense. That way, all royals are 'just celebs'. It seems to me that it's not Maxima who doesn't know how she is seen by 'the people', but it's you who seems to have lost track of how most people view her. Most people really don't care much about her clothes and jewelry and outward appearance. They care about her warmth and spontaneous character. And there is nothing wrong with popularity based on that. People are popular for different reasons. Just like people are all DIFFERENT. it doesn't make one thing right and the other thing wrong.
I totally agree with you prinsesbeagle
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  #95  
Old 11-20-2006, 05:19 PM
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I beg to differ and have another opinion on the way Máxima performs her public role. Stating that the dutch love her because of her spontaneous character is a pure guess. We do not know how the Dutch would have reacted on another lady at the side of the Prince. It is a fairly safe assumption that almost any decent and goodlooking well-behaving lady automatically becomes a star, simply for being the beautiful young Princess of Orange 'who brings fresh air into the palaces'.

The example with the very reserved, restraint, intravert and always careful Prince Claus, Jonkheer van Amsberg lies at hand. Princess Beatrix married this 13 years older German diplomat, who -in the best diplomatic tradition- almost faded away in his wife's dominant presence.

But at the same time year after year he was the most popular royal. This frail, calm and introvert Prince. So please, I beg to differ with people stating that the Netherlands need a loud and over-the-top Princess.
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  #96  
Old 11-21-2006, 01:33 AM
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Henri M, it seems to me you are more concerned that in the future, W-A is going to be in the shadow because of the spontaneous character of Maxima. Maybe that's why you would like Mathilde?
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  #97  
Old 11-21-2006, 02:27 AM
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If someone doesn't like extroverted and exuberant personalities then Maxima will not be the choice. Willem-Alexander made a choice to have Maxima in his life and and I trust his judgement that she is a worthy woman to be future queen consort and mother of a future queen. I find Maxima very charming but I find nothing special about Mathilde.
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  #98  
Old 11-21-2006, 04:33 AM
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I definitely see something special about Mathilde, she is not stiff nor boring
and she is definitely overshadowing her husband Philippe.
I am sure Mathilde would overshadow WA as well if she was his wife,
despite her more introvert character.
Philippe and WA are the most uncharismatic princes IMO,
so it is easy to overshadow them.
They both desperately need their wives for their popularity,
and therefore they better never ever claim for divorce .

But this thread is not about Mathilde, so back to Maxima:
First I want to say that I like Maxima and that I think she is indeed an asset to the Dutch RF,
especially in comparison to the IMO marvellous but uncharismatic Queen Beatrix
and the IMO equally uncharismatic but less marvellous Prince of Orange.
Although I am not (and never was) a fan of her fashion style nor of her father
(it took a time until I convinced myself that daughters should not be blamed for the "sins" of their fathers )
I can't quite see why someone thinks she is a disgrace for the RF.
She really seems to be very dedicated to her work and
she herself never did or said anything embarrassing AFAIK.
She isn't a very elegant or regal looking woman but that doesn't make her a disgrace.
Besides, Queen Beatrix and her son also don't look very regal to me,
therefore Maxima fits into the picture.
She would look totally out of place if she would be as elegant as Mathilde.

Regarding her smile and extrovert personality:
Am I the only one who thinks she has lost a bit of her original charme and warmth?
This year I saw more of Maxima on TV, when she attended
the baptism in Norway and the birthday in Sweden.
Both times I actually thought she looked quite grumpy and
only seemed to smile when she noticed a camera in front of her.
Therefore her smile appeared a bit fake to me and not as natural
as in the beginning or for example at the royal weddings in 2004.
I always liked Maxima for her warmth and charme, though it may have been a bit over the top sometimes.
But especially when watching the baptism in Norway
I thought that Mette-Marit and Mary had a much warmer appeal.

That was the reason why I was a bit disappointed of Maxima’s appearances at both occasions.
On the other hand Larzen stated that the press wrote how nice Maxima was.
So, I could be wrong, but that was the impression I got.
Her personality seems to have changed, to the better in some respects ("laziness")
and to the worse in others ("naturalness").
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  #99  
Old 11-21-2006, 05:19 AM
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Interesting to note the difference in perception.

When you place all European Queens on a row, Queen Beatrix certainly is in the top of most demanding, most perfectionist and most 'Queenly'-dressing persons.

Always and ever with hat and gloves, hofdames in her slipstream (some Queens even do not have a hofdame), always uniformed aides one step behind her, the standard must be flowing on the car, there must be an appropriate motorcade, and -very important for her- everything must be done according the tight and strict scheme. Queen Beatrix is certainly no grey mouse. ('Uncharismatic'). With her giant hats, her bulletproof hairdo and her powerdressing she is hard to ignore.

Interesting to see total different perceptions. Like that example you gave about the Norwegian baptism. Many posters thougt Máxima was the most elegant, most poised and most perfect behaving royal during that occasion. Others have a total different opinion. The baptism of Prince Sverre Magnus was not aired over here, so I have seen nothing of it.
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Old 11-21-2006, 06:03 AM
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I want to distinguish between dress and appeal.
I did not say Maxima was not elegant. I did not comment on her dress.
(Actually I too thought she was very elegantly dressed, though perhaps a bit dark.)
I said she appeared less warm and actually quite grumpy to me at this occasion.
(I saw it on German TV, perhaps she was only caught in “bad” moments.)

Queen Beatrix is an intelligent, energetic and dedicated queen and I know -
unlike her mother - she very much likes royal attributes like motorcades, music….
But still - and this is not meant as an offence - she looks like a Dutch peasant woman to me,
very robust but no inborn elegance, although she is a born royal.
And I think she needed so much time to be accepted and admired for her work
because she has no charisma and did not know how to sell herself well (unlike Maxima).
She is not a grey mouse either, too much personality.
And generally I don't think "grey mouse" is the only alternative to "charisma".
But as far as I remember, even at the time of WA’s wedding she wasn’t very popular,
it seems to have changed a bit after she became a widow and people could start to pity her.

It is not fair but there are people who just have to smile and they are praised to the skies
(like Maxima in the beginning)
and others can dedicate themselves totally to their roles
but they just don’t have what seems to appeal to the masses
(like Queen Beatrix).

Having said that I want to stress out that I like the Queen and the Prince of Orange and
that I think that Maxima will make a good queen,
perhaps not a perfect one - as it was said in the article - but a popular one.
And don't underestimate popularity.
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